Gun Control: Stats and Stupidity

Given the events of last weekend, the renewed hysteria over removing legal gun ownership from the citizens of the US is heating up again. Regardless of how the idiot shooter got his guns, those who clamor for gun control ignore a truth: gun ownership is actually something that keeps us safer.

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” (1791). The Second Amendment is clear and unambiguous. But for purposes of argument let’s take a look at it and define some terms.

According to Merriam Webster’s Dictionary, a militia is “a part of the organized armed forces of a country liable to call only in emergency, or a body of citizens organized for military service.” We had just come out of a war and our forefathers, who weren’t idiots, made this distinction for a reason. We prevailed against a government supported, organized army using an oft described “ragtag” militia armed with privately owned weapons. They said a militia was necessary to keep us free and tied that together with individual ownership. They then went on to say that “the people” have the “right” to “keep and bear arms”, and that right “shall not be infringed.” “Infringed” means “to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another.” Remember the reasons for the Revolutionary War? Capricious laws made by a King (government) with no respect for the rights of individuals? Our forefathers made sure that our rights to own and carry a gun are not to be toyed with.

Over the last two hundred plus years, that right has been challenged, and each time, the Supreme Court upheld private ownership and right to carry. In 2008 SCOTUS upheld it again in District of Columbia v. Heller, 128 S. Ct. 2783 (2008) SCOTUS said that “while we are aware of the problem of handgun violence in this country… enshrinement of constitutional rights necessarily takes certain policy choices off the table. These include the absolute prohibition of handguns…”

I am an advocate for the Second Amendment, but, I actually did want to see if the statistics supported my side. So, I purposefully stayed away from websites that either are proponents of or against gun control. One site, www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp, and information obtained from the 2007 FBI Crime Statistics report are where I got my information. Neither has an agenda.

Let’s start with the FBI data, which was collected via the Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) program. In 2007, the FBI reported that the estimated volume of violent crime (murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault) decreased 0.7 percent, and the estimated volume of property crime (burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and arson) decreased 1.4 percent from 2006 figures. This was all while the number of guns had increased 4.5 million a year. An often repeated myth that “gun control laws make us safer” was seriously debunked as well. The report showed that in 2007, the top three U.S. cities with the highest murder rates were Detroit (Michigan law requires a purchase permit), Baltimore (Maryland law restricts private handgun sales and requires a seven-day waiting period), and the District of Columbia (handgun ban at the time of the report). Detroit, Baltimore and D.C. also had the highest robbery rates. Gun control… high crime… the statistics bear it out.

The justthefacts.com website also had interesting statistics about gun ownership and use. Data from the U.S. Department of Justice showed that roughly 5,340,000 violent crimes were committed in the US during 2008. About 436,000 or 8% of them were committed by offenders visibly armed with a gun. In another survey from 2000 published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, people used guns to defend themselves and others from crime about 989,883 times per year. A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. CDC found that Americans use guns to scare off break-ins about 498,000 times per year. My own personal experience bears this out as well. My father, who was an FBI Agent, stopped a mugging one evening with an unloaded gun. The criminal had no idea it was loaded, and hotfooted it away not wanting to find out.

But what about the “people with guns in their homes are three times more likely to be killed with them” myth? It was debunked as well. Why? Well, there were several reasons, but it boiled down to this: 1) homicide victims may possess firearms precisely because they are likely to be victimized; and 2) the results are arrived at by twisting the raw data instead of letting it speak for itself. The study relied on one statistic – that households in which a homicide occurred had a firearm ownership rate of 45% as compared to 36% for non-homicide households. What they conveniently left out was that households in which a homicide occurred were twice as likely have a household member who was previously arrested, five times more likely to have a household member who used illicit drugs, and five times more likely to have a household member who was a victim of domestic violence. So the data actually shows that the propensity was not due to a firearm.

Long story short, we are safer with our guns than not, anathema mass murderers excepted.

About the author: Suzanne Olden

Suzanne Reisig Olden is a Catholic Christian, Conservative, married mother of two, who loves God, family and country in that order. She lives northwest of Baltimore, in Carroll County, Maryland. She graduated from Villa Julie College/Stevenson University with a BS in Paralegal Studies and works as a paralegal for a franchise company, specializing in franchise law and intellectual property. Originally from Baltimore, and after many moves, she came home to raise her son and daughter, now high school and college aged, in her home state. Suzanne has written for the online publication, The Beacon Bulletin.

View all articles by Suzanne Olden
  • wws

    Interesting enough, the pro gun sides arguments, though possibly biased (a bit) tend to fall right in line with the actual numbers whereas the anti gun side usually slants things so far away from fact that it isn’t really recognizable from the truth. It just goes to show there’s no curing stupid.

    • Daniel F. Melton

      It’s not stupidity that must be opposed. In case you haven’t studied the subject, just about every dictatorship in the last century benefited from or imposed gun control laws to achieve power and then murdered the unarmed opposition in wholesale lots.

      http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/deathgc.htm

      • wws

        This was actually the point of my comment. It’s plain stupid to think that the motive of gun control is about protecting “The People” from guns. It’s ALL ABOUT protecting politicians from “The People”. The people voting for liberals are either too stupid to know what they’re doing or too beholden to them (welfare, unions etc) to vote for the conservative (best case) or rino (still better than a democrat as it gives us numbers). Those people that want to “vote their conscience” and vote for a third party candidate are just, first off, throwing away a vote, or second, acting like a spoilded brat “wah, my candidate didn’t get chosen for the nomination so I’ll show you!”. This is essentially giving “O” a half vote. If he’s re-elected we can kiss our 2nd Ammendment goodbye as he’ll do everything in his power to do away with it or at least water it down so much as to be worthless. “Fear Those Who Fear my Gun”.

        • Daniel F. Melton

          Sharpen your hyperbole and it’ll be easier to understand your position.

        • AD Roberts

          REality check: Those gun grabbers have taken control of BOTH parties. Unless you get rid of the insiders who control all the way down to precinct chairmen, (who contrive to rig the outcome) and replace them with honest people, you can’t change the outcome.
          The only real solution is to turn to God, pray and repent.
          Then, whatever happens, you will be okay.

          • MrModerateAZ

            God? Pray? Repent? Well, at least we know that you are on solid intellectual footing.

          • http://clashdaily.com/author/SuzanneReisig/ Suzanne Olden

            Being Christian doesn’t mean you’re stupid. MrModerate… Anything positive to add? No? Not surprising…

          • MrModerateAZ

            awww, come on, you didn’t even give me a chance, I’m looking for your take on the whole “blindly follow” argument. I’m just saying that one’s time spent on prayer and repentance might be better served to consider rational solutions and self-improvement sans supernatural all-knowing juju in the sky.

          • http://clashdaily.com/author/SuzanneReisig/ Suzanne Olden

            Because obviously you have all the answers. Prayer is time well served, because even if (and I don’t believe it for a second) your “supernatural all-knowing juju in the sky” nonsense is correct, prayer has benefits – it’s calming and has been shown to reduce stress and anxiety so those “rational solutions” can be thought. Or God could actually exist and answer those waste of time prayers. I’ll go with the latter. Oh, and I don’t “blindly follow” God, I do so with years of study behind me, study that included non-believers, apologists and scripture. I also hold a college degree – and I graduated with a 3.98 GPA from a small private liberal arts college. I am, after all, a well rounded person. Being Christian, as I said, doesn’t mean I’m stupid.

      • MerlinMedic

        And a complete take over of education. Don’t forget the kiddies.

        • Daniel F. Melton

          Indoctrinate ‘em early and the little darlings will be ratting out their parents and relatives to the thought police.

          • AD Roberts

            Funny, that is just what the Bible predicted would happen in last days.

          • Daniel F. Melton

            Russia in the early 20th century, Germany in the 1930s, and the list goes on.

          • MrModerateAZ

            that is funny, the bible that is…

        • MrModerateAZ

          Hey, can I join the paranoid play group?

          • MerlinMedic

            Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Please go read a LOT of history, then come back to be with the grown ups.

          • MrModerateAZ

            as long as you promise not to blend in the “god” argument to justify your position.

      • AD Roberts

        With that knowledge, I would assume that when Obama issues the Executive Emergency confiscating all civilian guns, there should be enough intelligence in people to resist at that moment. But thousands will give up their weapons instead of fighting at that time, hoping to live a few more days.
        Sheep to the slaughter. If they come for your guns, maybe by declaring that you are no longer qualified to own one by their new standards, it will be the appropriate time to fight. Even a bullet proof vest can’t stand up to a 45.70 or a .444. or a 454 casull.
        For those of you in law enforcement, think about that when they tell you to go out and take someones guns. Not a threat. Just a suggestion.

        • Daniel F. Melton

          Hopefully you do not have a concealed carry license. They’ll probably use those to pick the victims for the first raids. When they kick in your neighbor’s door, take the opportunity to drop a few in the rear ranks. Those are usually the command types giving the orders. Body armor is not designed to stop your common deer rifle rounds, especially from the back.

          “A system of licensing and registration is the perfect device to deny gun ownership to the bourgeoisie.” – Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Scooter-Orsburn/100000103956479 Scooter Orsburn

    More gun laws Aint in your future liberals ! Get a Grip !…..or a different COUNTRY !

    • MrModerateAZ

      yeah! go somewhere else you bad liberal you! go over to libgland where you belong you freak!

  • joe

    Liberals prove that you can’t fix Stupid.

    • http://www.facebook.com/Kormster Mike Korman

      Liberals prove that stupidity is a real force of nature.

      • mesaman

        Liberals are proof of the genetic hardwiring of stupidity. a new sub-species is now in our midst; democraticallus moronica.

        • AD Roberts

          There is a real problem there. WHY DO AMERICANS KEEP VOTING IN THESE STUPIDS INTO OFFICE?

          • mesaman

            I’m not really sure, AD. It might be the dumbing down of America, which has hundreds of contributing factors. One such example could be they see their annointed one as a most persuasive, charismatic leader. (Which would further explain the dumbing down process) And and another could be that they see a future of federally funded programs that feed them, house them, put them through college, and keeps them from ever having to go to work. This connects directly to Lenin, Marx, Mao, Obama, and even Kim Jong Il.

          • MrModerateAZ

            oh no, predictable employment and food supply, higher edgamacation? what horrors await us? Somebody stepped on your head on their way up, huh?

          • mesaman

            It couldn’t have been you, I was dumpin’ on your head at the time.

          • MrModerateAZ

            har, good one, now time for recess, finish your juicebox and change your pull-up…good boy…

          • mesaman

            Sorry you lost your job at the landfill. Maybe NoMoBammie will put you on his cabinet cleaning his toilet.

          • MrModerateAZ

            sorry, the only trash here is you…

          • mesaman

            Been fun teasing the less fortunate, like you, bozo, but I still work. Something you may never have experienced, so go pray to NoMoBammie and I’ll watch for you at the portapottie.

          • MrModerateAZ

            I apologize for the delay, I was busy making my $700/day in the private sector having fun with you, did you DVR Hannity yet?

          • MrModerateAZ

            ’cause you weren’t running, where were you?

        • MrModerateAZ

          lemme guess, you didn’t come up with that all by your lil’ old self, didja?

          • mesaman

            Y’all been out in the sun too long? Been chasin’ too many horny toads? Now guess again, and this time think.

          • MrModerateAZ

            Are you holding your piece while writing this piece? Probability 100%

    • MrModerateAZ

      har, duh, good thing they don’t have guns, they’d be shooting themselves in the face for not knowing which end the bullet comes out of…

    • MrModerateAZ

      ahhh, the noble warrior, speaking with fluency and tact, showing all that his (certainly not hers) wisdom elevates the rhetoric to a higher level of thought!

  • John K.

    With a gun in your hand ,you are equal to your agressor,without you are not.

    • Graywolf12

      “God made man and Samuel Colt made them equal”

  • 2War Abn Vet

    The constant call for gun control (confiscation) isn’t really due to any liberal concern regarding crime. Gun control strengthens the government and weakens the people. The more totalitarian the government, the more it will push for gun control. That is
    precisely the reason our current government fears an armed populace.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Kormster Mike Korman

    Ted Kennedys Car =1 My guns = 0

    • AD Roberts

      Yes but he was a liberal elitist. They are never held accountable for just about anything. At least not yet? Do you suppose the media and CEOs of prosocialism corporations will survive anarchy? Maybe a few.

      • MrModerateAZ

        do you think you will? I’m guessing you don’t have as much ammo as “they” do, or water, or food, or gas, etc.

  • Centurian

    While living in Atlanta, I stopped 2 Home invasions in 5 years with my Colt .45 without firing a shot. In both cases, the perps fled and decided not to come back to our house. I would have been justified in shooting one of them for sure, but luckily it didn’t have to come to that as he realized, even in his drugged state, that one more step across the living room would be his last. So, he turned and ran. He was armed with a knife and high enough that he took no notice of the very angry 85lb Rottweiler/Lab that my wife was struggling to hold back. But, the barrel of the gun and my verbal commands got his attention. The cops arrived about 10 minutes after everything was over. I’m a former law enforcement officer and recognize that each of us is personally responsible for the protection of our homes, families and communities. Had I not confronted this guy, the cops would have had to make a more complex report and three people and a dog would likely have been injured. Personal responsibility and a privately owned gun likely saved that guy’s life that night. Had it come down to a knife fight, I might have been able to take him, but its likely that one or more of us would have become a statistic.

    • Daniel F. Melton

      The problem with letting ‘em run is that the next home they break in to may not have an armed occupant or an adult. If they won’t surrender, put ‘em down.

      • elove99

        I agree; however, be ready for the legal assault you will probably face from the police, family members of the dead toad, aggressive prosecutors, etc.

        • Daniel F. Melton

          Only if they find a body…….

          • MrModerateAZ

            I use strong lye myself, and you gotta go with the cast iron tub, I found out the hard way in my old single-wide, that fiberglass just melts away, blood and guts all over my NASCAR toilet cozy…

          • Daniel F. Melton

            Thanks for the advice. I’ve found that a herd of pigs leaves nothing, and they’re damned fast about the cleanup.

        • AD Roberts

          Sounds like you are referring to George Zimmerman.

        • MrModerateAZ

          toad? now that’s fair and balanced!

  • Daniel F. Melton

    There are no substitutes for fire extinguishers or handguns.

  • Jim

    It also has to do with the type of people that live in these cities.

  • unduder

    I oppose gun control for a variety of reasons not the least of which is the simple truth, if a criminal is gonna ignore one law, why would any rational person think he or she would honor any gun control laws? IF liberals get their way in banning guns and ammo, then soon, criminals will be the only ones with weapons, and what a world that would be! The insanity in DC is extraordinary. Locally, authorities banned guns in a park. Not a week later, in the local park a mom and her kids were confronted with a gun wielding guy who wanted to rob them. Criminals break laws. Period. And any gun laws would be no different. Gun bans tend to affect law abiding citizens who do not pose a problem in the first place while empowering criminals who don’t give a rat’s hair about laws anyway. Look at tax cheats (look no further than obama’s cabinet and inner circle) – criminals break the law while honest citizens abide by the laws (in the case of the horrific and convoluted tax laws, it is exceedingly difficult to do so). Criminals don’t care what Washington clingers say. Neither do crazy people.

    • Dean

      Criminals will be the only ones with guns and, as far as I’m concerned. that includes Obama and his criminal cronies. Hello KING OBAMA>

      • MrModerateAZ

        The only coronation was for you at the stupid festival

    • Chuck

      For a good example of a society where “only criminals have weapons,” look at England (the UK) where citizens are banned from owning, possessing or using just about any weapon, including knives, clubs, etc. If a Brit defends himself or his property from an armed thug with any sort of weapon, he/she ends up as the criminal. Regardless of what happens to the thug, the victim ends up in jail or paying a huge fine, or both. Brits are supposed to roll over, play dead, and let the cops – many of whom are themselves unarmed – deal with the thugs. Even a kitchen knife, used against an armed thug, becomes an illegal weapon! This is a ridiculous extreme example of where the move to ban weapons can go, but that’s exactly where anti-gun loonies in the U.S. are heading. The notion that if you take guns (or other weapons, like knives & swords in Japan) out of the hands of common folks, you end up with a peaceful society is completely bogus.

      I’m more inclined to agree with another frequently quoted opinion, to the effect that “an armed society is a polite society!”

      • Moose

        There have been cases in the UK where criminals who were injured by their victoms have sued and won awards because their victoms choose to defend themselves with a make shift weapon.

    • AD Roberts

      Forty years ago, I took one course in criminal justice. They stated that the deterent to crime, the only deterent to crime is QUCK, SURE punishment. With our corrupt lawyers (synonyms) and corrupt judges, justice is neither quick or sure.
      Hence, there is no deterent to crime unless you are pointing a very large gun at the perp.

      • Daniel F. Melton

        Retribution on the spot, quick and final. There’s no recidivism from the grave.

    • MrModerateAZ

      or any politician’s tax history lest we forget

  • sean murry

    liberals cant help if they are stupid.

    • MrModerateAZ

      I’m pretty sure it is not limited to “liberals”

      • WARIII

        No apparently it also includes moderates.

  • JIMOFCT

    IT SHOULD BE INCREASINGLY CLEAR THAT “LIES” ASBOUT ALMOST EVERY “AGENDA’ ISSUE FOR A RADICAL, LIBERAL PROGRESSIVE POLITICIAN IS THE NORM.
    FACTS THAT ARE CONTRARY TO THEIR AGENDA ARE HANDLED BY DEMONIZING THE PEOPLE WHO PROPOSE THEM IN OPPOSITION TO THEIR “AGENDA” OF CONTROL..
    WE CAN ONLY HOPE THAT WE WAKE UP AND DEFEAT THE POLITICIANS WHO HAVE BEEN PUSHING THEIR BIG GOVERNMENT -TAX AND SPEND- INCREASE DEPENDANCY – CONTROL A COLLECTIVIST OR SOCIALIST SOCIETY AGENDA.

  • NoMoreMarxistsInDC

    The police (the state) owe no duty to protect its citizens from each other.
    DeShaney v. Winnebago County, 489 U.S. 189, 196 (1989)

    • Th3TrojanHorse

      possibly why Bloomberg called for a strike of NYC police officers?

  • gian2012

    Gun control is accurate shot placement. Gun control laws have nothing to do with crime,they serve only the purpose of those elected to remove any threat of the people to their tyranny. A crime stands by itself as a crime and there are already laws dealing with that regardless of what was used to commit the crime. A gun is an inanimate object that cannot be put on trial because it committed no crime,therefore gun control to fight crime is fraudulent by it’s own volition and the stupeheads who pass such laws in the name of public safety are equally fraudulent in fighting crime. They pass such laws for their own self serving political power. Now you know why the second amendment is not about duck hunting. Friday 27 July,2012 will mark the day of Obama signing the unconstitutional U.N/Hillary Gun Confiscation and Public Disarmament Treaty not the “U.N Gun Treaty”. It still must have the votes from the Senate to ratify but an unconstitutional law cannot be ratified. Since the law violates the second amendment,it’s unconstitutional no matter what other words are attached such as “treaty”. We owe no allegiance to the U.N. and it’s third world despots. If congress had any cojones,a bill to dump the U.N, send it’s members home, and bulldoze the building, thus selling the land to Trump makes more financial sense than anything that’s come down the pike in decades.

    • MrModerateAZ

      wow, yur like a reader or sumpin’ huh?

  • Glenn

    GREAT article… I only wish this quality of writing could be found in my local newspaper!!! Keep up the great work!!!

  • http://clashdaily.com/author/SuzanneReisig/ Suzanne Olden

    Here’s why looking at the facts objectively is an opinion changer. A friend of mine had children at a school that had a school shooting, so she is understandably anti-gun. She is also liberal, so it wasn’t a stretch to get there for her either. However, when I presented the facts, not the facts as twisted by each side, here was her response to me on Facebook: “After the school shooting, I was understandably 100% against personal gun ownership! A bullet could have easily killed my baby! But I am on the fence about it now…I feel that there need to be more regulation – like having a license to d…rive and a car that’s insured. And you must be re-tested and renewed every 4 yrs (or whatever). Education and knowledge are key! I don’t feel like that would have stopped the school shooting, and guns have no place in a principals office nor in a noon duty’s holster. But, I also feel like if there were a few packing at the movie theater, there may not have been so many victims. It’s one of those things where in my perfect world, there would be no use for guns! But, I know that isn’t going to happen and that guns are here to stay. So, we need to be realistic and logical and educate to the fullest extent with gun owners!” I don’t agree with her on more regulation, but being FACTUAL and not EMOTIONAL will win others to our side!

  • swan

    Very Good !

  • Sagebrush6

    I have personally stopped two (2) breakins at my own home by sticking a gun in the burglars face when he tried to come in through a window. Two different cities and homes, 15 yers apart, but non-the-less twice. I guess i could have pointed my shoe at him and yelled—- yah right. Gun ownership works. Gun control dosen’t.
    A newspaper reporter interviewed an inmate one time and one of the questions he as the inmate was “did he have any apprehensions when breaking into homes”. The inmate answered – “yes, a homeowner with a gun”.
    Pretty much says it all. If you have no protection, you are at the mercy of the crooks, burglars, whatever.
    Sleep well tonight. Do you mind if somone puts a sigh in your front yard saying you are unarmed?

  • Brian

    On being killed or wounded with ones own gun by an intruder the obvious answer is empty the gun at the intrurder then the intruder would not be able to kill you with your own gun.

    • bobv

      Got to love this one—the truth—both my wife and daughter are not gun lovers but both know where the 38 JHP’s loaded gun is, right next to where my wife sits watching the tube every night and BOTH know how to use it.

      • bobv

        When the dogs go crazy, first thing they do is make sure they are close to the 38 special

      • MrModerateAZ

        and just waitin’ for a chance…

  • http://www.facebook.com/debbie.bartlett.948 Debbie Bartlett

    Good un-biased article with stats that support our right to own and bear arms!

    • http://clashdaily.com/author/SuzanneReisig/ Suzanne Olden

      Thank you! That was exactly what I was aiming (pun intended) to do!

  • Just Fretting

    Gun advocates don’t understand – it’s not about confiscating guns. That’s paranoia. It’s about propagating the sale and use of assault-type weapons, which are designed to do exactly what happened. I don’t think the killer would have had the balls to go in and start shooting armed with just a Glock and shotgun. But with that terror-weapon, he knew he had control. As many have noted here, even a look-alike gun will scare an intruder and prevent criminal activity. Make that 100-fold with an AR-15.
    Most liberals are not stupid and it’s that kind of language that makes right-wing gun nuts sound stupid. People who believe guns are the ONLY answer, however, and believe that the 2nd amendment makes this issue / problem uncontestable need a reality check. To think that “the government” of today could ever pull off a dictatorship is just plain silly. They can’t even pass a frickin parking ban!
    As for these stats – they sound a bit cherry-picked. Crime in Detroit, Baltimore and DC is not driven by gun control – it’s the economy / environment. What the article doesn’t mention is what would those stats be without gun control? And – as we all know – criminals do not acquire guns through legal channels. So licensing is moot, in this case.
    But – I know I’m trying to talk rational sense to a group of people who don’t want to hear another position. I am considering getting a handgun myself – but only to protect myself from these wing-nuts that want to take over the country. Of course, if they come after me with an AR-15, I will be dead meat.

    • wws

      You totally are missing the point of the second ammendment. The Framers intended that “We The People” would be outfitted with the very same style of weapons that a militery would use. I don’t advocate taking this to the fully automatic extreme but for OUR protection against OUR government I think having a military style weapon that shoots the same ammunition as our military is the smart way to go. A civilian version of the AR15 is nothing more than a semi auto rifle. Just like a great number of hunting rifles. Besides a pistol grip or detachable magazine, the bigger difference in a “war” weapon of WWII and what came later is that the weapons before Korea & Vietnam were designed to kill. One bullet, one dead (one out of action). After WWII the weapons, SKS, AK47, M16 (AR15 type) and so forth were designed more to incapacitate, not kill. One shot, one wounded and two to take him off the field to cripple the enemies ability to field men. So in advocating the demise of the “ugly” “Assualt” weapons the tragedy in Colorado, caused by a madman (and not the gun)may have been 71 shot AND killed rather than 12 killed and 59 wonded. Blaming a gun because you don’t like the way it looks is rather silly. But then again so is what most of the left believes.

      • Daniel F. Melton

        It’s the round, not the rifle that makes the wound. Military rounds are mandated full metal jacket, (Geneva accords, 1929 I believe) thus there is no mushrooming or fragmentation of the projectile. Hunting loads are specifically designed to mushroom and thus cause more lethal wounds. The .223 round tends to tumble when it impacts flesh which makes it more lethal than the 7.62X39 AK47 round, but it also has a shorter effective range and is easily deflected by vegetation.

        I did see a unsubstantiated statement that the AR15 used in the Aurora theater shootings jammed. This type of malfunction was and is all too common for that type of rifle from the time it was first issued to the troops in VN..

        • WARIII

          The bullet will tumble on a riflr if the rate of twist is slow(1 in 14) but not on newer ARs most of them have a 1 in 9 twist which stabilises the bullet better and will just punch hale with a full metal jacket bullet. Any AR that is not properly lubed will fail.

          • Daniel F. Melton

            The tumble of the .223 round I referred to is due to the sudden deceleration of the projectile when it impacts. The rate of spin contributes to stability in flight.

            I had three malfunctions with the M16 during my 9 years military service. One failure to extract, one “stovepipe” and a trigger group failure that went full auto. These were all stateside, the weapons fresh from the arms room. Give me an M14. I carried that rifle during basic, AIT, and my first tour in VN. No problems with that weapon. My second tour I carried at one time or another an M1 carbine, an M79 grenade launcher with M1911A1, and the Remington 870 12 gage.

    • http://clashdaily.com/author/SuzanneReisig/ Suzanne Olden

      My whole point is that you have the right to buy that gun. The stats I found were not from a gun advocate, but the government and an unbiased site. The three listed include the state in which I reside and yes, Maryland is quite restrictive in its gun laws. But you’ve also proven my last article. You cant refute my data, so you stoop to calling names. Try having a factual diacussion without calling names. you might actually learn something.

      • MrModerateAZ

        I read the same Just Facts article, footnotes and all, I generally agree with the stats; however, when you preach to the choir (like this site/blog), you get the strongest language out of the “love it or leave it” “only outlaws will have guns” crowd. There is a middle ground without the machismo and in-group paranoia…it’s called continued, reasonable awareness and education. I shot my first .45 when I was but a wee one, scared the s*&* outta me, always have had respect for the weapon, but the ready access to all weapons and extreme viewpoints have soured me to the whole notion of tolerant discourse. Nobody who says “f*ck you if you don’t like it” is not going to take the time to understand the topic and consider different opinions…they will, unfortunately, shoot first and ask questions later. Mix in a little bible thumpin’ and you can forget about rational debate.

    • AD Roberts

      You have your eyes closed and your ears stopped up. YOu think that it is impossible for a tyrant to take over today. Apparently you haven’t seen the multiple times that Obama has already broken the Constitution. All he need now is a civilian military force that will be faithful to him in enforceing his edicts and it is over. And by the way, he is building that right now. You just don’t know how close we are to the end.
      Which one of the three monkeys are you? ALL THREE.

      • MrModerateAZ

        hey, better git while the gittin’s good, huh? maybe to Canadia? OPEN YOUR EYES, MAN, it’s an enigma wrapped in a riddle, wrapped in a little shitake mushroom, watch out, they’re right behind you, ahhhrrggg, run run!!

    • jtrentschler

      WOW !!! The ignorance is astounding ! It never fails to amaze me how libs with little or no knowledge can form what they consider a brilliant opinion . CLASSIC . I’m sorry I won’t be able to set you completely straight . Oh, I have the abillity and knowlege , I’m just laughing too hard. YOU ARE HILLARIOUS ! Thanks for the pick-me-up. I’ve benn shooting all 3 of these guns for over 30 yrs. The AR is not a “terror weapon” , it’s not even an “assault weapon” – it’s not automatic. IF someone wanted to kill and terrify , the glock and shotgun are FAR better choices. Same true for someone looking to defend their home. The fact that you fear one gun over another…. because….it ..looks..scarier..??… PRESCIOUS !!!! NOW, go cower in the corner, and if someone kicks down your door , PRAY you live next to me , or someone like me . HELL, saving you would be worth it just to get a laugh out of what you write next. Thanks for the laugh.

      • MrModerateAZ

        you probably peed yerself too!

  • Hunter

    I would uphold a crime/gun control law if it was done correctly. I AGREE they need to be stiff laws in catching abusers when buying a gun but not to own a gun. Many have several guns for different kinds of sports. That doesn’t make then dangerous. That makes them safer because they know how to use it and when. These kind of people will protect anyone without racism, religion, or anything else. The problem is the ones that don’t know how to use a gun but own one or are already a criminal and shouldn’t have one. We need to look in the corners fokes and catch the right ones hiding.

    • AD Roberts

      You are one of the people who opened the door for TOTAL GUN CONFISCATION. Just like the saying about death by a thousand cuts, you have to understand that the Alinskys out there, including Bloomberg, Brady, H. Clinton, Obama etc are aware that you can’t always get what you wnat with one blow. So they just keep slicing at it till they get everything they wanted and more.
      You have to consider that this is war and these people are either enemies or traitors.

      • MrModerateAZ

        Really? I’m pretty sure that the slope ain’t that slippery fella’

    • GW

      We already have those laws, but for laws to be effective , society must be intelligent and responsible. Impossible without morality and common sense in our education system.

  • bobv

    GREAT discussion—haven’t heard from any intelligent liberals on this yet–did I say intelligent?? still it all boils down to 1 thing, When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Bottom line!!! I agree in sending the UN elsewhere and let Trump build on the site. Maybe some jobs will be created other than housekeepers for the UN.The union liberals will be at a standstill since the UAW union probably has the biggest association of gun owning hunters out of any union in the country.

  • Anthony

    All you have to do is look at the first three posts (5 months ago) to see how intelligent and witty conservatives are. So clever, and you didn’t even finish high school.

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