Church: If You Wanna Save America, Then Leave Your Churchy Play Pen

By Doug Giles / 17 September 2012 / 11 comments

If Christians want to impact culture then they’re going to have to leave their Lysol disinfected environments and get their hands dirty in the real world.

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Doug Giles is the man behind ClashDaily.com. In addition to driving ClashDaily.com, Giles is a popular columnist on Townhall.com and the author of the book Raising Righteous & Rowdy Girls.

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Heather

Doug nails it again. Yay! I wish my pastor would invite him to our church!
http://twitter.com/FerrellGummitt Ferrell Gummitt

Doug: Alfonzo Rachel made this video at PJTV today. It might be relevant.
http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=mpg&mpid=84&load=7456
Clark Coleman

While a message is delivered about not being absorbed into the culture, in the background we see electric guitars, bass guitars, keyboards, amplifiers. A rock concert lighting system sets the mood on a performer’s stage. A giant video screen shows the star speaker. The audience applauds when the applause lines are delivered, and the speaker asks for applause occasionally. There is certainly no surrender to our pop culture here! This is just the kind of church the apostles would have felt at home in.
- LouiseCA
  
  So if Jesus was walking the earth today, He would not use internet, tv, cell phones, videos, to speak out and reach the lost?
  - Clark Coleman
    
    What do the internet and TV have to do with rock bands, light shows, and entertainment-oriented churches with applause during worship services, sermons, etc.?
    - Joanne13
      
      There’s a balance (or should be). It’s neither wrong to be ‘minimalist’ or… hmm, what to call it… ‘performance oriented’ (for lack of a better word). BOTH sides of that argument are valid to a point. I really do hear what you’re saying Clark. Yet I also know that to reach ‘the world’ and draw them OUT of their entertainment mentality it is (often) necessary to use the things commonly used in the entertainment world. Just as money isn’t evil but rather the ‘love’ of money neither is lighting, instruments, sound systems, big screens, etc. It’s all about perspective and intent. The challenge for Christians and churches is to find the correct balance and at ALL times keep a humble attitude before the Lord, seeking HIS will concerning what a church or ministry incorporates into their ‘style’. I myself have a problem with the attitude that we should clap after a song is sung or played, etc. I feel like it’s more about acknowledging the person singing, etc rather than focusing on the One being lifted up. It should ALL be about lifting up and glorifying Jesus. Applauding the performance can be an ‘iffy’ practice for many Christians. YET… that does not mean it’s ‘wrong’ to applaud.
      
      We as God’s children have to be careful and sensitive to the Holy Spirit as He leads us as INDIVIDUALS. We are called to freedom after all. As individuals we follow His leading as to how we worship, how we interact in the congregation, how WE respond after a song or sermon or what ever. Unless we see something blasphemous or ungodly happening we have to leave it to God. Just for the record I APPRECIATE a big screen with songs displayed on it during a service! There are so many wonderful worship songs during a service and I frequently don’t know the lyrics to newer ones. So for me being able to see the lyrics and therefore enabling me to sing along and worship it’s extremely welcome!
      - Clark Coleman
        
        You say that we need to reach certain people and then draw them out of the entertainment mentality. But once a church is entertaining enough to draw them in, it never stops being that way, and therefore it never draws people out of that mentality. How many churches have you heard of that grew numerically because of their pandering to people’s tastes that decided at some point to totally change their style so that people could be discipled more seriously? It never happens, because the leaders of the church think they have a successful formula for numerical growth.
        
        This is probably not the forum for discussing all issues related to worship. Let’s remember the original point: We have a consumer culture, which encourages a selfish perspective in which my desires are paramount. Some churches have pandered to the consumer culture by trying to run church according to my desires to try to attract me, instead of trying to call people out of that self-centered, desire-centered culture. In the midst of such a church, the speaker delivers a message about not getting caught up in the culture. That is hypocrisy, regardless of any rationalizations we might employ to justify what the church is doing. The basic problem is that the speaker sees certain evils in our culture that he wants to warn about (e.g. feminization and the general war against boys and men), but he does not see other evils (the ultimate goal of our society is for everyone to satisfy their desires).
      - Joanne13
        
        I understand your point(s). And I agree about a ‘formula’ not being likely to change if it is looking successful. I know that in many churches now days sin, eternal death, Hell, etc. are rarely if ever even mentioned, let alone preached about! However as to ‘pandering’ to people to get them into church I frankly have mixed feelings about it. I see the benefit(s) and the disadvantages. That’s why I said it’s about balance. Do I think that God condemns a church for using modern ‘tools’ to draw people in? I think that’s a very worthy question but the answer(s) aren’t so obvious IMO. All I do know for sure is that God looks at the heart and knows ALL motives. If it’s not of God it will eventually fail. Hopefully in the process (if it’s to fail) those drawn in will be getting truth along with ‘hype’? and their lives truly changed as they become the person(s) God intends them to be. God honors faith when ever we exercise it.
        
        So we can’t agree on this but that’s OK. We surely agree on Jesus and how fortunate we are to be His children. )
        Be Blessed!
http://twitter.com/JasonReinhardt7 Jason Reinhardt

I’ve never seen Doug Giles speak, but I can certainly agree with the
words in this presentation! He is absolutely spot on! We are to live in
the world, but not to be of the world! What many believers interpret
that to mean, is that we are to drop out of the world, and that is not
what Jesus ever intended for a believer! – Blessings, Jason Reinhardt
http://www.facebook.com/johnjkirkwood John Kirkwood

Doug, you need to start a Clash Seminary! Great stuff, brother!
O_Rock

If Jesus were alive today most Christians wouldn’t know how to handle it. He would present himself in such a way that a majority of people could relate to him. He definitely would not be holding himself out as better than anyone else and would wouldn’t lower himself to base conduct either. We need to realize that staying within the confines of a sterile environment doesn’t deliver the Gospel to anyone normally. The reason America is failing is because our people for the most part have abandoned God Almighty. If we spent our efforts evangelizing our own people we wouldn’t have such a difficult time trying to get good leaders because we would be creating them.

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