About the author: Skip Coryell

Skip Coryell lives with his wife and children in Michigan. Skip Coryell is the author of eight books including Blood in the Streets: Concealed Carry and the OK Corral, RKBA: Defending the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, The God Virus, and We Hold These Truths. He is the founder of The Second Amendment March and the President of White Feather Press. He is an avid hunter and sportsman, a Marine Corps veteran, and a graduate of Cornerstone University. For more details on Skip Coryell, or to contact him personally, go to his website at skipcoryell.com

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  • Harvey817

    I am happy that this terrorist was not killed. I hope the water board him and find the truth about this terrorist attack. The turn him over to the parents of the eight year child that was murdered for final payment of his debt to society. If Al Quida is behind this it makes odumba a lier. He said Al Quida was no longer viable. Oh well, another day another lie by the domestic terrorist.

    • Roger

      Obama is a liar! Every time he opens his mouth to spew his radical, socialist, black theology agenda on his sheep he is lying. Now millions of tax dollars will be spent on this terrorists defense. There will not be any waterboarding, no revenge from the families of the killed and maimed. These are islamic radicals that want all of the “infidels” dead! That is the bottom line, yet the elitists in DC will treat this pig with kid gloves to keep the ACLU and others that would defend him at bay.

      • Alex M

        “Now millions of tax dollars will be spent on this terrorists defense”

        Only the innocent are entitled to a trial.

        • pateboo

          What trial, Obama will probably put him up in the White House and throw a party for him. Beyonce will put on a concert for him, and George Clooney will make a movie about his life.

          • Alex M

            “What trial, Obama will probably put him up in the White House and throw a party for him”

            Are you’re a man of your word? Are you willing to a wager? $20, charity of your (or my) choice, on your prediction, by July 31st. If you’re right, I will donate my $20 to Oxfam, an internationally recognised charity.

            Over to you.

    • gundog1911

      More than likely he will get the best healthcare (not Obamacare), and some
      nice government dipwad will sit down beside his bed and very nicely ask him to
      pretty please tell his heart wrenching story. Jack Bauer his Muslim azz!!

  • Shane

    We would be safer if we stopped allowing Muslims to immigrate into our country. Certainly it is a fact that 5 people would be alive if these brothers had never immigrated to our country. Go to Jihad Watch for more info on Islamic Jihad – http://www.jihadwatch.org/

    • Strangerinastangeland

      I agree. No more immigration from countries that harbor and tolerate terrorism. These terrorists came here on political asylum status. The leaders of this country are nuts. We are having to assimilate a 5th column from Mexico–it is time for real immigration reform. No more immigration for 20 years.

      • Alex M

        Looking at recent mass killings :

        Adam Lazna, born US, killed 26;
        Jared Loughner, born US, killed 6 and wounded 12;
        James Holmes, born US, killed 12, wounded 58;
        Eric Harris & Dylan Klebold, born US, killed 13, wounded 24;
        Eric Rudolph, born US, killed 2, wounded 111;
        Timothy McVeigh, born US, killed 168, wounded 800…

        When home grown terrorists are so prolific and deadly, maybe nationality and race or religion are the wrong points of focus.

        • johnnyu

          all liberal democrats on psychotropic drugs with exception of mcveigh and Rudolph try focusing on mental health

          • Alex M

            I wasn’t aware their voting history was part of the FBI record system. But in truth, you have a good point, on mental health being a consideration. Those who object to background checks for firearms ownership would do well to heed your caution.

          • maritimer

            Most weren’t even old enough to vote. How the hell can they be “liberal Democrats?”

        • johnnyu

          when come to murder with out a gun……. there are forty countries before the USA that have more murders per capita a matter of fact the USA is so far down the list you cant find it… stop focusing on the gun ….try …stopping murder as your focus… .. and the terrorist use a jet plane he killed 3000 lets ban planes in Boston they used a a pressure cooker let ban pots and pans ….the new weapon of mass destruction…. is there anything else you guys want to ban.or control… because you guys love to control people.with your banning and taxing and regulation.. you dont want to stop all murders…. just the ones with a gun….. boy you hate that gun…. you know why….. because with a gun…. i can control you…at least thats what you think i want to do….. and you can’t have that happen… its a power thing with you people ….your afraid of us… that gun represent freedom and scares the sh-t out of you….. you are like the Borg on the star ship enterprise we must assimilate you…… you must be part of the collective……. you must think like us…. or you are stupid… if you dont follow rest of us we will force you to….. by banning and taxing all thing that allow you to think for yourselves. … yeah you hate that gun because you fear it…you can not control the people you fear…….the Borg use to say.. resistance is futile…with that gun….. i can resist and defend my family

        • johnnyu

          when come to murder with out a gun……. there are forty countries before the USA that have more murders per capita a matter of fact the USA is so far down the list you cant find it… stop focusing on the gun ….try …stopping murder as your focus… .. and the terrorist use a jet plane he killed 3000 lets ban planes in Boston they used a a pressure cooker let ban pots and pans ….the new weapon of mass destruction…. is there anything else you guys want to ban.or control… because you guys love to control people.with your banning and taxing and regulation.. you dont want to stop all murders…. just the ones with a gun….. boy you hate that gun…. you know why….. because with a gun…. i can control you…at least thats what you think i want to do….. and you can’t have that happen… its a power thing with you people ….your afraid of us… that gun represent freedom and scares the sh-t out of you….. you are like the Borg on the star ship enterprise we must assimilate you…… you must be part of the collective……. you must think like us…. or you are stupid… if you dont follow rest of us we will force you to….. by banning and taxing all thing that allow you to think for yourselves. … yeah you hate that gun because you fear it…you can not control the people you fear…….the Borg use to say.. resistance is futile…with that gun….. i can resist and defend my family

          • Alex M

            “there are forty countries before the USA that have more murders per capita a matter of fact the USA is so far down the list you cant find it.”

            You’ve earlier tried to argue that there is a link between high gun penetration in the population, and higher levels of safety. Whenever I try to continue the focus on this with statistics from official crime record sources, you avoid addressing them, and attempt to swerve the topic, or land the US with strange bedfellows in order to minimize a starkly obvious lethality in US society. In order to do that you have to be classing the US as a rogue state like Zimbabwe or Rwanda, places run by murdering thugs and gangsters, and not the country that landed men on the Moon and has the highest per capita rate of Nobel prize winners. That is just bizarre, and insulting to Americans in general. The place of America is with the developed and highly civilized countries.

            If what you argued was true, the US would be the safest place on the planet from violent crime. It is not. You are about 30 times more likely to be shot dead in the US than you are in England. That is a huge disparity, and it cannot be swept under the carpet or ‘inverted’ by ranking the US alongside the likes of Jamaica or El Salvador. That is, frankly, nuts. The US is a First World country, measured by all the critical factors, such as life expectancy at birth, adult literacy, primary secondary and tertiary education enrolments, degree of civil liberties, and GDP per capita. The US does not belong among Third World countries where the average annual income is under $1000 and life expectancy is 55.

            Among all countries for which auditable figures are available, the US is in the top quartile for gun homicides. It should be in the bottom quartile, or even decile. If rate of gun ownership made you safer, the US would be safer than Gaza and the West Bank. It’s marginally more dangerous. If rate of gun ownership made you safer, you’d be safer than anyone in Germany. Instead, you’re sixteen times more likely to be shot to death in the US. If having a gun made your family safer, it would not be the case that having a gun in the home trebled the chance that a family member would get shot.

            There is plenty of need for research on how to minimize the firearms attrition rate in the US without banning guns. Can you guess who has been campaigning to block research into gun violence?

          • johnnyu

            here is some rouge countries
            1 turkey 8 Ukraine 10 romania 12 Finland 16 Sweden 20 switzerland 21 Italy 23 Poland 24 Denmark 25 Netherlands 3 lithuania

          • Alex M

            “here is some rouge countries”

            What do these numbers mean?

          • johnnyu

            there place in the murder rate per capa

          • Alex M

            “there place in the murder rate per capa”

            This looks strange. You have Turkey in first position, but Turkey’s homicide rate is 3.3/100k (cf. US at about 3/100k). You have Lithuania (a country I have lived in) at rank 3, and though the homicide rate there is about 6.5/100k, it’s nowhere near third place, as almost all the top ten places for homicides are in the Americas. You have Switzerland at rank 20, and it’s somewhere twenty places below that, with a rate of about 0.7/100k.

            I’m wondering if you’ve mistranscribed or misunderstood your source.

          • johnnyu

            nationalmaster.com… murders per ca pita most resent by country not …gun murder as for crime like i said England is # 2 the most crime and murder per ca-pita in the EU with Germany# 3 place
            if you add them together they bypass the USA #1 but considering populations they pass the USA and if look as each state as country that varies quite a bit and considering the Czech rep #27 has gun laws very much like the USA they have less murders and less crime and Switzerland you can take your automatic weapons home after army service there are to many intangibles to get real good statistics the different societies and cultures just like the USA east is different than south…. west is different than southwest with all different laws societies and cultures really there is no way to compare… if you do crime by state but that would not represents the state as a whole because all you need is one bad city i am sorry to say the only way to judge were crime is race and nationality… nobody can say that these places dont have more crime and there are intangibles poverty and drugs and education and the government that allows certain races to stay that way in poverty so they can be get there vote in this sick reverse tyranny by giving them just enough to make them dependent on them with no way out

            +

          • Alex M

            “murders per ca pita most resent by country not …gun murder as for crime like i said England is # 2 the most crime and murder per ca-pita in the EU with Germany# 3 place”

            This is simply not true. When crime is aggregated into a representative crime index by country, where an index up to about 50 is reasonable, and an index over 100 is dangerously high, the US scores around 53, Canada 35. For comparison, Guatemala is about 85.

            The UK scores about 40, Germany is about 24.

            “if you add them together they bypass the USA #1 but considering populations they pass the USA”

            You can’t add rates by summation. They are averages, you have to take weighted means instead. Otherwise, you could treat each state in the Union individually, add up all their homicide rates, and get a sum that is even more scary than it already is. Nor can you simply add up all recorded crimes, since different jurisdictions have different definitions and thresholds. Sweden, for example, has a different definition of rape, and one assault can be recorded multiple times under that jurisdiction’s counting scheme, which is why it appears to have a very high rape rate, which in reality is not significantly different from any other country’s. The US definition of violent crime is significantly different from that of other countries, as it is triggered by higher thresholds.

            The total homicide rate in the UK is about 1.2. That of Germany is about 0.8.

            You cannot add them to edge them closer to the total US rate of about 4.8 (+/- slight annual random variations)

            The combined UK & Germany homicide rate is the population-weighted mean of 1.2 and 0.8, which is about 0.97. Or a quarter to a fifth that of the US.

            “Switzerland you can take your automatic weapons home after army service”

            But not your ammunition! Ammunition can only be acquired, stored, and used, at shooting ranges. You cannot have live ammunition at home.

            “there are to many intangibles to get real good statistics”

            This is just irrational. There are very sound and reliable statistics on criminology over decades, and centuries, which can be partitioned in many ways. Not being able to demonstrate the conclusion you have set your mind on does not make the actual statistics wrong. It makes you mistaken.

          • johnnyu

            Top Ten Countries With Highest Reported Crime Rates

            The crime-rates map shows the world top ten countries with the highest reported crime rate.This map tells us about the number of crimes that took place per 100,000 people.

            Data indicated on the map of countries with the highest reported crime rates is based on house hold surveys, hospital and insurance records, FIR recorded by police or by law enforcement agencies.

            Map of countries with the highest reported crime rates clearly indicates that countries of Europe and America are the least safe countries in the world. Asia even though not that economically sound is far safer as compared to the ten countries listed on this map.
            maps of the world.com

            also an Italian study you can see it at…http://www2.dse.unibo.it/zanella/papers/crime-EP.pdf it called a reversal of misfortune i had another that was very had all the untangibles and he had been astonished that it turn out same way…. it was a college professor i didn’t save it because i though that we had and agreement that…. we agree to disagree you can dismiss all these studies…unless you are smarter and have all the statistics at your beckoning i am not going to change your mind and you are not going to change mine please lets stop ..you will find ten studies that say your fact are right and i will find ten studies that i am right just because you dismiss them as wrong it doesn’t make it so..we have to different ways of seeing thing our ideology are different lets leave at that
            united states 11,877,218

            United Kingdom

            6,523,706

            Germany

            6,507,394

            France

            3,771,850

            Russia

            2,952,370

            Japan

            2,853,739

            South Africa

            2,683,849

            Canada

            2,516,918

            Italy

            2,231,550

            India

            1,764,630
            UK is violent crime capital of Europe
            The United Kingdom is the violent crime capital of Europe and has one of the highest rates of violence in the world, worse even than America,England UK crime rate exceeds US Europe except Sweden, Strict gun control empowers criminals, Four Times Higher than United States, Criminals always get weapons according to new research.
            By Richard Edwards, Crime Correspondent telgraph

          • Alex M

            “UK is violent crime capital of Europe”

            It doesn’t matter how often you try to cherry-pick shonky statistics from newspapers and bloggers, this will still not be true. You repeatedly ignore the fact that (i) crime definitions between jurisdictions differ, as do crime reporting levels, and (ii) the topic under discussion is homicides by firearm. And however much you may not like it, the homicide rate in the US is larger than almost every other comparable European country combined.

            ” i will find ten studies that i am right”

            You aren’t finding any studies at all. You have been copying and pasting from websites whose content you don’t actually understand, and completely ignoring hard facts about murder rates. Dead bodies can be counted. They can be counted in the US, and they can be counted in England.

            For every funeral of a gun homicide in England, there are 42 funerals in the United States. You will not find any “study” anywhere that makes 41 of these funerals disappear.

            That’s the deadly reality, which you refuse to face.

          • johnnyu

            no !!…..you are ignoring facts…. yes i have been copy and pasting…. ..i guess everyone but you.. is an idiot if told you that this is the facts… you wouldn’t believe me… so i copy and pasted the facts… that annoys you there’s plenty of facts in the study by the Italians i may not understand it….. i have a.life…..to think i m going to read 100 page study just…to disapprove you.!!!!!…… when you haven’t read it either .. why dont you argue with them… and you can bring all your facts…. and see who comes out looking like an idiot……..then they must be stupid too.. right !!….. because you are the new…. Einstein …. because you couldn’t possibly be wrong…. if you want other studied……… i will paste it for you .!!!!!!!!!!..this.one i read in its entirety….. i told you…..he was shocked that it came out the way it did….. he explains how they came upon there opinion this was a Pennsylvania study that had all your intangibles and that you have j.repeated. over and over…(i) crime definitions between jurisdictions differ, as do crime reporting levels….he was able to get by this this… … guess what !! my gun has not walk out my safe and shot someone yet…… i thought guns kill …people…… not people kill people.. OH !!! maybe its out looking for ammo

          • Alex M

            “there’s plenty of fact in the study by the Italians”

            Focus on the gun deaths here, Johnny.

            How do the gun deaths in the US compare with Europe, per unit population?

          • johnnyu

            i gave you that with more murders per ca pita not every murder is commit with a gun.. that’s what I’m looking at… murder …as a whole dead is dead gun.. knife …lets stop murder.. but you have to look at the people that are committing murder…. law abiding people do not commit murder… murder is what must stop…. to think that if you got rid of guns…. that all murders would stop is ludicrous that why England violent crime has gone up ….the murders have found a new way to kill… that’s all they are still killing OK maybe not as efficient but dead is still dead example……its like i have small glass with1/2 cup of water in it…… the water will represent murderers and murders…. they are together they have be they are a constant.. the small glass it self…will be guns small glass because it only one class off weapons….. and what do murderers do…. they murder …this is a constant i have one empty bowel this will use to measure… i pour the murderers and the murders in the empty bowel fast because of the small volume it will empty. quickly the..speed that i pour the water ..the measurement for this will be for.. fast ..is 1year… slow 3 years… i still have a 1/2 a cup of murderers and murders but without the glass or ( the guns).in the bowel now…… i get a a larger glass lets call it…… others weapons .it is larger because all you did is take one weapon away( the gun) and forced them into larger array of weapon like knifes bats poison bombs etc i pour the bowel of murders murderers into the larger glass it is still a half a 1/2 cup of murders murderers but now i pour the murders and murderers into the bowel slowly because of the larger glass has more volume more weapons … until the larger glass is empty guess what nothing has changed…still a half a glass of murders and murderers in the bowel. it only took a little longer… only the speed of when people will be murdered has changed because murder is a constant and cannot change because murderers murder one cant be without the other.. the only way to change the measurement is you must remove the murderer’s and that will change…. the murder rate……… all you did is slow it down by removing the glass or guns this is why all the facts dont matter that is what he found out in Pennsylvania study and that what the Italian s found … that why they are shocked that the rate of gun murders went down but crime has continue to raise slowly what you have done is create a illusion of crime reduction and in time it will catch up all you have done is slow down crime and if you think that more police would change things very small change….. people dont murder and rob in front of the police and to think that murders will decide to become priests because they cant get a gun… is insane.. they will fine some other crime you didn’t stop murder… you just slowed its a efficiency ….its a illusion of less of murder….. the reaper will catch up

          • Dan S.

            It seems to me you two cannot come to an understanding about all the statistics here. How about you both just agree to disagree.

          • Dan S.

            It seems to me you two cannot come to an understanding about all the statistics here. How about you both just agree to disagree.

          • johnnyu

            fine with me…… i ask alex m the same let agree to disagree peace please

          • johnnyu

            fine with me…… i ask alex m the same let agree to disagree peace please

          • johnnyu

            fine with me…… i ask alex m the same let agree to disagree peace please

          • johnnyu

            fine with me…… i ask alex m the same let agree to disagree peace please

          • Alex M

            “How about you both just agree to disagree.”

            Where would be the fun in that?

          • Dan S.

            Point well taken. lol

          • Alex M

            I have to say, that whilst Johnny and I will never agree on this topic, I take my hat off to him for being perfectly civil throughout, which is relatively uncommon in such debates, and has been much appreciated.

          • Alex M

            I have to say, that whilst Johnny and I will never agree on this topic, I take my hat off to him for being perfectly civil throughout, which is relatively uncommon in such debates, and has been much appreciated.

          • Dan S.

            There is always room for civility and absolutely NO room for incivility. Everyone loves to have fun.

          • Alex M

            I have to say, that whilst Johnny and I will never agree on this topic, I take my hat off to him for being perfectly civil throughout, which is relatively uncommon in such debates, and has been much appreciated.

          • Alex M

            “How about you both just agree to disagree.”

            Where would be the fun in that?

          • Alex M

            “How about you both just agree to disagree.”

            Where would be the fun in that?

          • Alex M

            “How about you both just agree to disagree.”

            Where would be the fun in that?

          • Dan S.

            It seems to me you two cannot come to an understanding about all the statistics here. How about you both just agree to disagree.

          • Alex M

            Focus on the gun homicides question, Johnny.

            United States, 3 per 100,000 population : True or False?

            England, 0.07 per 100,000 population : True or False?

            Don’t evade, just answer.

          • johnnyu

            Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour came to power.

            The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and South Africa.

            Opposition leaders said the disclosures were a “damning indictment” of the Government’s failure to tackle deep-rooted social problems.

            The figures combined crime statistics for England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

            The UK had a greater number of murders in 2007 than any other EU country – 927 – and at a relative rate higher than most western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and sweden

            It also recorded the fifth highest robbery rate in the EU, and the highest absolute number of burglaries, with double the number of offences recorded in Germany and France.

            Overall, 5.4 million crimes were recorded in the UK in 2007 – more than 10 a minute – second only to Sweden.

            Chris Grayling, shadow home secretary, said: “This is a real damning indictment of this government’s comprehensive failure over more than a decade to tackle the deep rooted social problems in our society, and the knock-on effect on crime and anti-social behaviour.

            “We’re now on our fourth Home Secretary in this parliament, and all we are getting is a rehash of old initiatives that didn’t work the first time round. More than ever Britain needs a change of direction.”

            The figures were sourced from Eurostat, the European Commission’s database of statistics. They are gathered using official sources in the countries concerned such as the national statistics office, the national prison administration, ministries of the interior or justice, and police.

            A breakdown of the statistics, which were compiled into league tables by the Conservatives, revealed that violent crime in the UK had increased from 652,974 offences in 1998 to more than 1.15 million crimes in 2007.

            It means there are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the UK, making it the most violent place in Europe.

            Austria is second, with a rate of 1,677 per 100,000 people, followed by Sweden, Belgium, Finland and Holland.

            By comparison, America has an estimated rate of 466 violent crimes per 100,000 population.

            France recorded 324,765 violent crimes in 2007 – a 67 per cent increase in the past decade – at a rate of 504 per 100,000 population.

            The Home Office says there has been a downtrend in overall violence for the past decade.

            But last October it emerged that levels of violent crime in England and Wales had been underestimated for more than a decade because of a blunder in recording methods.

            Ministers admitted that some police forces had not been recording offences of grievous bodily harm with intent as serious violent crime. When the offences were included violent crime figures immediately increased by a fifth.

            Separate figures disclosed in May showed that the number of people requiring hospital treatment after being seriously hurt in street fights or assaults has risen 50 per cent in five years.

            More than 20 people a day were taken to hospital accident and emergency departments in England last year after being hit, kicked, scratched or bitten. Alcohol is blamed as a factor in half of the incidents and raises further questions over 24-hour drinking.

            Researchers admit that comparisons of crime data between countries must be viewed with caution because of differing criminal justice systems and how crimes are reported and measured.

            A Home Office spokesperson said: “These figures are misleading. Levels of police recorded crime statistics from different countries are simply not comparable since they are affected by many factors, for example the recording of violent crime in other countries may not include behaviour that we would categorise as violent crime.

            “Violent crime in England and Wales has fallen by almost a half since a peak in 1995 but we are not complacent and know there is still work to do. “This is because Europe reports their crime rates differently.

            In the United States, we report all crimes, regardless of arrests made or convictions. The UK only reports crimes where a suspect is convicted of the crime. So really, they are comparing apples to oranges.

            The UK actually has a much higher rate of violent crimes being committed than the US does. They just report them as “incidents” instead of crime

          • Alex M

            Skip the C&P for the moment, Johnny, and focus on the questions you’re evading rather palpably.

            Gun homicides.

            United States, 3 per 100,000 population : True or False?

            England, 0.07 per 100,000 population : True or False?

            Don’t evade, just answer.

          • Alex M

            Skip the C&P for the moment, Johnny, and focus on the questions you’re evading rather palpably.

            Gun homicides.

            United States, 3 per 100,000 population : True or False?

            England, 0.07 per 100,000 population : True or False?

            Don’t evade, just answer.

          • Alex M

            Skip the C&P for the moment, Johnny, and focus on the questions you’re evading rather palpably.

            Gun homicides.

            United States, 3 per 100,000 population : True or False?

            England, 0.07 per 100,000 population : True or False?

            Don’t evade, just answer.

          • johnnyu

            Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour came to power.

            The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and South Africa.

            Opposition leaders said the disclosures were a “damning indictment” of the Government’s failure to tackle deep-rooted social problems.

            The figures combined crime statistics for England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

            The UK had a greater number of murders in 2007 than any other EU country – 927 – and at a relative rate higher than most western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and sweden

            It also recorded the fifth highest robbery rate in the EU, and the highest absolute number of burglaries, with double the number of offences recorded in Germany and France.

            Overall, 5.4 million crimes were recorded in the UK in 2007 – more than 10 a minute – second only to Sweden.

            Chris Grayling, shadow home secretary, said: “This is a real damning indictment of this government’s comprehensive failure over more than a decade to tackle the deep rooted social problems in our society, and the knock-on effect on crime and anti-social behaviour.

            “We’re now on our fourth Home Secretary in this parliament, and all we are getting is a rehash of old initiatives that didn’t work the first time round. More than ever Britain needs a change of direction.”

            The figures were sourced from Eurostat, the European Commission’s database of statistics. They are gathered using official sources in the countries concerned such as the national statistics office, the national prison administration, ministries of the interior or justice, and police.

            A breakdown of the statistics, which were compiled into league tables by the Conservatives, revealed that violent crime in the UK had increased from 652,974 offences in 1998 to more than 1.15 million crimes in 2007.

            It means there are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the UK, making it the most violent place in Europe.

            Austria is second, with a rate of 1,677 per 100,000 people, followed by Sweden, Belgium, Finland and Holland.

            By comparison, America has an estimated rate of 466 violent crimes per 100,000 population.

            France recorded 324,765 violent crimes in 2007 – a 67 per cent increase in the past decade – at a rate of 504 per 100,000 population.

            The Home Office says there has been a downtrend in overall violence for the past decade.

            But last October it emerged that levels of violent crime in England and Wales had been underestimated for more than a decade because of a blunder in recording methods.

            Ministers admitted that some police forces had not been recording offences of grievous bodily harm with intent as serious violent crime. When the offences were included violent crime figures immediately increased by a fifth.

            Separate figures disclosed in May showed that the number of people requiring hospital treatment after being seriously hurt in street fights or assaults has risen 50 per cent in five years.

            More than 20 people a day were taken to hospital accident and emergency departments in England last year after being hit, kicked, scratched or bitten. Alcohol is blamed as a factor in half of the incidents and raises further questions over 24-hour drinking.

            Researchers admit that comparisons of crime data between countries must be viewed with caution because of differing criminal justice systems and how crimes are reported and measured.

            A Home Office spokesperson said: “These figures are misleading. Levels of police recorded crime statistics from different countries are simply not comparable since they are affected by many factors, for example the recording of violent crime in other countries may not include behaviour that we would categorise as violent crime.

            “Violent crime in England and Wales has fallen by almost a half since a peak in 1995 but we are not complacent and know there is still work to do. “This is because Europe reports their crime rates differently.

            In the United States, we report all crimes, regardless of arrests made or convictions. The UK only reports crimes where a suspect is convicted of the crime. So really, they are comparing apples to oranges.

            The UK actually has a much higher rate of violent crimes being committed than the US does. They just report them as “incidents” instead of crime

          • johnnyu

            Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour came to power.

            The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and South Africa.

            Opposition leaders said the disclosures were a “damning indictment” of the Government’s failure to tackle deep-rooted social problems.

            The figures combined crime statistics for England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

            The UK had a greater number of murders in 2007 than any other EU country – 927 – and at a relative rate higher than most western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and sweden

            It also recorded the fifth highest robbery rate in the EU, and the highest absolute number of burglaries, with double the number of offences recorded in Germany and France.

            Overall, 5.4 million crimes were recorded in the UK in 2007 – more than 10 a minute – second only to Sweden.

            Chris Grayling, shadow home secretary, said: “This is a real damning indictment of this government’s comprehensive failure over more than a decade to tackle the deep rooted social problems in our society, and the knock-on effect on crime and anti-social behaviour.

            “We’re now on our fourth Home Secretary in this parliament, and all we are getting is a rehash of old initiatives that didn’t work the first time round. More than ever Britain needs a change of direction.”

            The figures were sourced from Eurostat, the European Commission’s database of statistics. They are gathered using official sources in the countries concerned such as the national statistics office, the national prison administration, ministries of the interior or justice, and police.

            A breakdown of the statistics, which were compiled into league tables by the Conservatives, revealed that violent crime in the UK had increased from 652,974 offences in 1998 to more than 1.15 million crimes in 2007.

            It means there are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the UK, making it the most violent place in Europe.

            Austria is second, with a rate of 1,677 per 100,000 people, followed by Sweden, Belgium, Finland and Holland.

            By comparison, America has an estimated rate of 466 violent crimes per 100,000 population.

            France recorded 324,765 violent crimes in 2007 – a 67 per cent increase in the past decade – at a rate of 504 per 100,000 population.

            The Home Office says there has been a downtrend in overall violence for the past decade.

            But last October it emerged that levels of violent crime in England and Wales had been underestimated for more than a decade because of a blunder in recording methods.

            Ministers admitted that some police forces had not been recording offences of grievous bodily harm with intent as serious violent crime. When the offences were included violent crime figures immediately increased by a fifth.

            Separate figures disclosed in May showed that the number of people requiring hospital treatment after being seriously hurt in street fights or assaults has risen 50 per cent in five years.

            More than 20 people a day were taken to hospital accident and emergency departments in England last year after being hit, kicked, scratched or bitten. Alcohol is blamed as a factor in half of the incidents and raises further questions over 24-hour drinking.

            Researchers admit that comparisons of crime data between countries must be viewed with caution because of differing criminal justice systems and how crimes are reported and measured.

            A Home Office spokesperson said: “These figures are misleading. Levels of police recorded crime statistics from different countries are simply not comparable since they are affected by many factors, for example the recording of violent crime in other countries may not include behaviour that we would categorise as violent crime.

            “Violent crime in England and Wales has fallen by almost a half since a peak in 1995 but we are not complacent and know there is still work to do. “This is because Europe reports their crime rates differently.

            In the United States, we report all crimes, regardless of arrests made or convictions. The UK only reports crimes where a suspect is convicted of the crime. So really, they are comparing apples to oranges.

            The UK actually has a much higher rate of violent crimes being committed than the US does. They just report them as “incidents” instead of crime

          • johnnyu

            Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour came to power.

            The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and South Africa.

            Opposition leaders said the disclosures were a “damning indictment” of the Government’s failure to tackle deep-rooted social problems.

            The figures combined crime statistics for England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

            The UK had a greater number of murders in 2007 than any other EU country – 927 – and at a relative rate higher than most western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and sweden

            It also recorded the fifth highest robbery rate in the EU, and the highest absolute number of burglaries, with double the number of offences recorded in Germany and France.

            Overall, 5.4 million crimes were recorded in the UK in 2007 – more than 10 a minute – second only to Sweden.

            Chris Grayling, shadow home secretary, said: “This is a real damning indictment of this government’s comprehensive failure over more than a decade to tackle the deep rooted social problems in our society, and the knock-on effect on crime and anti-social behaviour.

            “We’re now on our fourth Home Secretary in this parliament, and all we are getting is a rehash of old initiatives that didn’t work the first time round. More than ever Britain needs a change of direction.”

            The figures were sourced from Eurostat, the European Commission’s database of statistics. They are gathered using official sources in the countries concerned such as the national statistics office, the national prison administration, ministries of the interior or justice, and police.

            A breakdown of the statistics, which were compiled into league tables by the Conservatives, revealed that violent crime in the UK had increased from 652,974 offences in 1998 to more than 1.15 million crimes in 2007.

            It means there are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the UK, making it the most violent place in Europe.

            Austria is second, with a rate of 1,677 per 100,000 people, followed by Sweden, Belgium, Finland and Holland.

            By comparison, America has an estimated rate of 466 violent crimes per 100,000 population.

            France recorded 324,765 violent crimes in 2007 – a 67 per cent increase in the past decade – at a rate of 504 per 100,000 population.

            The Home Office says there has been a downtrend in overall violence for the past decade.

            But last October it emerged that levels of violent crime in England and Wales had been underestimated for more than a decade because of a blunder in recording methods.

            Ministers admitted that some police forces had not been recording offences of grievous bodily harm with intent as serious violent crime. When the offences were included violent crime figures immediately increased by a fifth.

            Separate figures disclosed in May showed that the number of people requiring hospital treatment after being seriously hurt in street fights or assaults has risen 50 per cent in five years.

            More than 20 people a day were taken to hospital accident and emergency departments in England last year after being hit, kicked, scratched or bitten. Alcohol is blamed as a factor in half of the incidents and raises further questions over 24-hour drinking.

            Researchers admit that comparisons of crime data between countries must be viewed with caution because of differing criminal justice systems and how crimes are reported and measured.

            A Home Office spokesperson said: “These figures are misleading. Levels of police recorded crime statistics from different countries are simply not comparable since they are affected by many factors, for example the recording of violent crime in other countries may not include behaviour that we would categorise as violent crime.

            “Violent crime in England and Wales has fallen by almost a half since a peak in 1995 but we are not complacent and know there is still work to do. “This is because Europe reports their crime rates differently.

            In the United States, we report all crimes, regardless of arrests made or convictions. The UK only reports crimes where a suspect is convicted of the crime. So really, they are comparing apples to oranges.

            The UK actually has a much higher rate of violent crimes being committed than the US does. They just report them as “incidents” instead of crime

          • Alex M

            Focus on the gun homicides question, Johnny.

            United States, 3 per 100,000 population : True or False?

            England, 0.07 per 100,000 population : True or False?

            Don’t evade, just answer.

          • Alex M

            Focus on the gun homicides question, Johnny.

            United States, 3 per 100,000 population : True or False?

            England, 0.07 per 100,000 population : True or False?

            Don’t evade, just answer.

          • Alex M

            Focus on the gun homicides question, Johnny.

            United States, 3 per 100,000 population : True or False?

            England, 0.07 per 100,000 population : True or False?

            Don’t evade, just answer.

          • johnnyu

            i gave you that with more murders per ca pita not every murder is commit with a gun.. that’s what I’m looking at… murder …as a whole dead is dead gun.. knife …lets stop murder.. but you have to look at the people that are committing murder…. law abiding people do not commit murder… murder is what must stop…. to think that if you got rid of guns…. that all murders would stop is ludicrous that why England violent crime has gone up ….the murders have found a new way to kill… that’s all they are still killing OK maybe not as efficient but dead is still dead example……its like i have small glass with1/2 cup of water in it…… the water will represent murderers and murders…. they are together they have be they are a constant.. the small glass it self…will be guns small glass because it only one class off weapons….. and what do murderers do…. they murder …this is a constant i have one empty bowel this will use to measure… i pour the murderers and the murders in the empty bowel fast because of the small volume it will empty. quickly the..speed that i pour the water ..the measurement for this will be for.. fast ..is 1year… slow 3 years… i still have a 1/2 a cup of murderers and murders but without the glass or ( the guns).in the bowel now…… i get a a larger glass lets call it…… others weapons .it is larger because all you did is take one weapon away( the gun) and forced them into larger array of weapon like knifes bats poison bombs etc i pour the bowel of murders murderers into the larger glass it is still a half a 1/2 cup of murders murderers but now i pour the murders and murderers into the bowel slowly because of the larger glass has more volume more weapons … until the larger glass is empty guess what nothing has changed…still a half a glass of murders and murderers in the bowel. it only took a little longer… only the speed of when people will be murdered has changed because murder is a constant and cannot change because murderers murder one cant be without the other.. the only way to change the measurement is you must remove the murderer’s and that will change…. the murder rate……… all you did is slow it down by removing the glass or guns this is why all the facts dont matter that is what he found out in Pennsylvania study and that what the Italian s found … that why they are shocked that the rate of gun murders went down but crime has continue to raise slowly what you have done is create a illusion of crime reduction and in time it will catch up all you have done is slow down crime and if you think that more police would change things very small change….. people dont murder and rob in front of the police and to think that murders will decide to become priests because they cant get a gun… is insane.. they will fine some other crime you didn’t stop murder… you just slowed its a efficiency ….its a illusion of less of murder….. the reaper will catch up

          • johnnyu

            i gave you that with more murders per ca pita not every murder is commit with a gun.. that’s what I’m looking at… murder …as a whole dead is dead gun.. knife …lets stop murder.. but you have to look at the people that are committing murder…. law abiding people do not commit murder… murder is what must stop…. to think that if you got rid of guns…. that all murders would stop is ludicrous that why England violent crime has gone up ….the murders have found a new way to kill… that’s all they are still killing OK maybe not as efficient but dead is still dead example……its like i have small glass with1/2 cup of water in it…… the water will represent murderers and murders…. they are together they have be they are a constant.. the small glass it self…will be guns small glass because it only one class off weapons….. and what do murderers do…. they murder …this is a constant i have one empty bowel this will use to measure… i pour the murderers and the murders in the empty bowel fast because of the small volume it will empty. quickly the..speed that i pour the water ..the measurement for this will be for.. fast ..is 1year… slow 3 years… i still have a 1/2 a cup of murderers and murders but without the glass or ( the guns).in the bowel now…… i get a a larger glass lets call it…… others weapons .it is larger because all you did is take one weapon away( the gun) and forced them into larger array of weapon like knifes bats poison bombs etc i pour the bowel of murders murderers into the larger glass it is still a half a 1/2 cup of murders murderers but now i pour the murders and murderers into the bowel slowly because of the larger glass has more volume more weapons … until the larger glass is empty guess what nothing has changed…still a half a glass of murders and murderers in the bowel. it only took a little longer… only the speed of when people will be murdered has changed because murder is a constant and cannot change because murderers murder one cant be without the other.. the only way to change the measurement is you must remove the murderer’s and that will change…. the murder rate……… all you did is slow it down by removing the glass or guns this is why all the facts dont matter that is what he found out in Pennsylvania study and that what the Italian s found … that why they are shocked that the rate of gun murders went down but crime has continue to raise slowly what you have done is create a illusion of crime reduction and in time it will catch up all you have done is slow down crime and if you think that more police would change things very small change….. people dont murder and rob in front of the police and to think that murders will decide to become priests because they cant get a gun… is insane.. they will fine some other crime you didn’t stop murder… you just slowed its a efficiency ….its a illusion of less of murder….. the reaper will catch up

          • johnnyu

            i gave you that with more murders per ca pita not every murder is commit with a gun.. that’s what I’m looking at… murder …as a whole dead is dead gun.. knife …lets stop murder.. but you have to look at the people that are committing murder…. law abiding people do not commit murder… murder is what must stop…. to think that if you got rid of guns…. that all murders would stop is ludicrous that why England violent crime has gone up ….the murders have found a new way to kill… that’s all they are still killing OK maybe not as efficient but dead is still dead example……its like i have small glass with1/2 cup of water in it…… the water will represent murderers and murders…. they are together they have be they are a constant.. the small glass it self…will be guns small glass because it only one class off weapons….. and what do murderers do…. they murder …this is a constant i have one empty bowel this will use to measure… i pour the murderers and the murders in the empty bowel fast because of the small volume it will empty. quickly the..speed that i pour the water ..the measurement for this will be for.. fast ..is 1year… slow 3 years… i still have a 1/2 a cup of murderers and murders but without the glass or ( the guns).in the bowel now…… i get a a larger glass lets call it…… others weapons .it is larger because all you did is take one weapon away( the gun) and forced them into larger array of weapon like knifes bats poison bombs etc i pour the bowel of murders murderers into the larger glass it is still a half a 1/2 cup of murders murderers but now i pour the murders and murderers into the bowel slowly because of the larger glass has more volume more weapons … until the larger glass is empty guess what nothing has changed…still a half a glass of murders and murderers in the bowel. it only took a little longer… only the speed of when people will be murdered has changed because murder is a constant and cannot change because murderers murder one cant be without the other.. the only way to change the measurement is you must remove the murderer’s and that will change…. the murder rate……… all you did is slow it down by removing the glass or guns this is why all the facts dont matter that is what he found out in Pennsylvania study and that what the Italian s found … that why they are shocked that the rate of gun murders went down but crime has continue to raise slowly what you have done is create a illusion of crime reduction and in time it will catch up all you have done is slow down crime and if you think that more police would change things very small change….. people dont murder and rob in front of the police and to think that murders will decide to become priests because they cant get a gun… is insane.. they will fine some other crime you didn’t stop murder… you just slowed its a efficiency ….its a illusion of less of murder….. the reaper will catch up

          • Alex M

            “UK is violent crime capital of Europe”

            It doesn’t matter how often you try to cherry-pick shonky statistics from newspapers and bloggers, this will still not be true. You repeatedly ignore the fact that (i) crime definitions between jurisdictions differ, as do crime reporting levels, and (ii) the topic under discussion is homicides by firearm. And however much you may not like it, the homicide rate in the US is larger than almost every other comparable European country combined.

            ” i will find ten studies that i am right”

            You aren’t finding any studies at all. You have been copying and pasting from websites whose content you don’t actually understand, and completely ignoring hard facts about murder rates. Dead bodies can be counted. They can be counted in the US, and they can be counted in England.

            For every funeral of a gun homicide in England, there are 42 funerals in the United States. You will not find any “study” anywhere that makes 41 of these funerals disappear.

            That’s the deadly reality, which you refuse to face.

          • Alex M

            “UK is violent crime capital of Europe”

            It doesn’t matter how often you try to cherry-pick shonky statistics from newspapers and bloggers, this will still not be true. You repeatedly ignore the fact that (i) crime definitions between jurisdictions differ, as do crime reporting levels, and (ii) the topic under discussion is homicides by firearm. And however much you may not like it, the homicide rate in the US is larger than almost every other comparable European country combined.

            ” i will find ten studies that i am right”

            You aren’t finding any studies at all. You have been copying and pasting from websites whose content you don’t actually understand, and completely ignoring hard facts about murder rates. Dead bodies can be counted. They can be counted in the US, and they can be counted in England.

            For every funeral of a gun homicide in England, there are 42 funerals in the United States. You will not find any “study” anywhere that makes 41 of these funerals disappear.

            That’s the deadly reality, which you refuse to face.

          • Alex M

            “UK is violent crime capital of Europe”

            It doesn’t matter how often you try to cherry-pick shonky statistics from newspapers and bloggers, this will still not be true. You repeatedly ignore the fact that (i) crime definitions between jurisdictions differ, as do crime reporting levels, and (ii) the topic under discussion is homicides by firearm. And however much you may not like it, the homicide rate in the US is larger than almost every other comparable European country combined.

            ” i will find ten studies that i am right”

            You aren’t finding any studies at all. You have been copying and pasting from websites whose content you don’t actually understand, and completely ignoring hard facts about murder rates. Dead bodies can be counted. They can be counted in the US, and they can be counted in England.

            For every funeral of a gun homicide in England, there are 42 funerals in the United States. You will not find any “study” anywhere that makes 41 of these funerals disappear.

            That’s the deadly reality, which you refuse to face.

          • johnnyu

            Top Ten Countries With Highest Reported Crime Rates

            The crime-rates map shows the world top ten countries with the highest reported crime rate.This map tells us about the number of crimes that took place per 100,000 people.

            Data indicated on the map of countries with the highest reported crime rates is based on house hold surveys, hospital and insurance records, FIR recorded by police or by law enforcement agencies.

            Map of countries with the highest reported crime rates clearly indicates that countries of Europe and America are the least safe countries in the world. Asia even though not that economically sound is far safer as compared to the ten countries listed on this map.
            maps of the world.com

            also an Italian study you can see it at…http://www2.dse.unibo.it/zanella/papers/crime-EP.pdf it called a reversal of misfortune i had another that was very had all the untangibles and he had been astonished that it turn out same way…. it was a college professor i didn’t save it because i though that we had and agreement that…. we agree to disagree you can dismiss all these studies…unless you are smarter and have all the statistics at your beckoning i am not going to change your mind and you are not going to change mine please lets stop ..you will find ten studies that say your fact are right and i will find ten studies that i am right just because you dismiss them as wrong it doesn’t make it so..we have to different ways of seeing thing our ideology are different lets leave at that
            united states 11,877,218

            United Kingdom

            6,523,706

            Germany

            6,507,394

            France

            3,771,850

            Russia

            2,952,370

            Japan

            2,853,739

            South Africa

            2,683,849

            Canada

            2,516,918

            Italy

            2,231,550

            India

            1,764,630
            UK is violent crime capital of Europe
            The United Kingdom is the violent crime capital of Europe and has one of the highest rates of violence in the world, worse even than America,England UK crime rate exceeds US Europe except Sweden, Strict gun control empowers criminals, Four Times Higher than United States, Criminals always get weapons according to new research.
            By Richard Edwards, Crime Correspondent telgraph

          • johnnyu

            Top Ten Countries With Highest Reported Crime Rates

            The crime-rates map shows the world top ten countries with the highest reported crime rate.This map tells us about the number of crimes that took place per 100,000 people.

            Data indicated on the map of countries with the highest reported crime rates is based on house hold surveys, hospital and insurance records, FIR recorded by police or by law enforcement agencies.

            Map of countries with the highest reported crime rates clearly indicates that countries of Europe and America are the least safe countries in the world. Asia even though not that economically sound is far safer as compared to the ten countries listed on this map.
            maps of the world.com

            also an Italian study you can see it at…http://www2.dse.unibo.it/zanella/papers/crime-EP.pdf it called a reversal of misfortune i had another that was very had all the untangibles and he had been astonished that it turn out same way…. it was a college professor i didn’t save it because i though that we had and agreement that…. we agree to disagree you can dismiss all these studies…unless you are smarter and have all the statistics at your beckoning i am not going to change your mind and you are not going to change mine please lets stop ..you will find ten studies that say your fact are right and i will find ten studies that i am right just because you dismiss them as wrong it doesn’t make it so..we have to different ways of seeing thing our ideology are different lets leave at that
            united states 11,877,218

            United Kingdom

            6,523,706

            Germany

            6,507,394

            France

            3,771,850

            Russia

            2,952,370

            Japan

            2,853,739

            South Africa

            2,683,849

            Canada

            2,516,918

            Italy

            2,231,550

            India

            1,764,630
            UK is violent crime capital of Europe
            The United Kingdom is the violent crime capital of Europe and has one of the highest rates of violence in the world, worse even than America,England UK crime rate exceeds US Europe except Sweden, Strict gun control empowers criminals, Four Times Higher than United States, Criminals always get weapons according to new research.
            By Richard Edwards, Crime Correspondent telgraph

          • johnnyu

            Top Ten Countries With Highest Reported Crime Rates

            The crime-rates map shows the world top ten countries with the highest reported crime rate.This map tells us about the number of crimes that took place per 100,000 people.

            Data indicated on the map of countries with the highest reported crime rates is based on house hold surveys, hospital and insurance records, FIR recorded by police or by law enforcement agencies.

            Map of countries with the highest reported crime rates clearly indicates that countries of Europe and America are the least safe countries in the world. Asia even though not that economically sound is far safer as compared to the ten countries listed on this map.
            maps of the world.com

            also an Italian study you can see it at…http://www2.dse.unibo.it/zanella/papers/crime-EP.pdf it called a reversal of misfortune i had another that was very had all the untangibles and he had been astonished that it turn out same way…. it was a college professor i didn’t save it because i though that we had and agreement that…. we agree to disagree you can dismiss all these studies…unless you are smarter and have all the statistics at your beckoning i am not going to change your mind and you are not going to change mine please lets stop ..you will find ten studies that say your fact are right and i will find ten studies that i am right just because you dismiss them as wrong it doesn’t make it so..we have to different ways of seeing thing our ideology are different lets leave at that
            united states 11,877,218

            United Kingdom

            6,523,706

            Germany

            6,507,394

            France

            3,771,850

            Russia

            2,952,370

            Japan

            2,853,739

            South Africa

            2,683,849

            Canada

            2,516,918

            Italy

            2,231,550

            India

            1,764,630
            UK is violent crime capital of Europe
            The United Kingdom is the violent crime capital of Europe and has one of the highest rates of violence in the world, worse even than America,England UK crime rate exceeds US Europe except Sweden, Strict gun control empowers criminals, Four Times Higher than United States, Criminals always get weapons according to new research.
            By Richard Edwards, Crime Correspondent telgraph

          • johnnyu

            This is because Europe reports their crime rates differently.

            In the United States, we report all crimes, regardless of arrests made or convictions. The UK only reports crimes where a suspect is convicted of the crime. So really, they are comparing apples to oranges.

            The UK actually has a much higher rate of violent crimes being committed than the US does. They just report them as “incidents” instead of crimes……….. switzerland…They are not allowed to keep ammunition for these firearms in their homes, however, and ammunition is stored at government arsenals…………….. Up until September 2007,……. soldiers received 50 rounds of government-issued ammunition in a sealed box for storage at home.voters rejected a citizens’ initiative which would have obliged armed services members to store their rifles and pistols on military compounds, rather than keep them at home.[81]

          • johnnyu

            This is because Europe reports their crime rates differently.

            In the United States, we report all crimes, regardless of arrests made or convictions. The UK only reports crimes where a suspect is convicted of the crime. So really, they are comparing apples to oranges.

            The UK actually has a much higher rate of violent crimes being committed than the US does. They just report them as “incidents” instead of crimes……….. switzerland…They are not allowed to keep ammunition for these firearms in their homes, however, and ammunition is stored at government arsenals…………….. Up until September 2007,……. soldiers received 50 rounds of government-issued ammunition in a sealed box for storage at home.voters rejected a citizens’ initiative which would have obliged armed services members to store their rifles and pistols on military compounds, rather than keep them at home.[81]

          • johnnyu

            This is because Europe reports their crime rates differently.

            In the United States, we report all crimes, regardless of arrests made or convictions. The UK only reports crimes where a suspect is convicted of the crime. So really, they are comparing apples to oranges.

            The UK actually has a much higher rate of violent crimes being committed than the US does. They just report them as “incidents” instead of crimes……….. switzerland…They are not allowed to keep ammunition for these firearms in their homes, however, and ammunition is stored at government arsenals…………….. Up until September 2007,……. soldiers received 50 rounds of government-issued ammunition in a sealed box for storage at home.voters rejected a citizens’ initiative which would have obliged armed services members to store their rifles and pistols on military compounds, rather than keep them at home.[81]

          • johnnyu

            nationalmaster.com… murders per ca pita most resent by country not …gun murder as for crime like i said England is # 2 the most crime and murder per ca-pita in the EU with Germany# 3 place
            if you add them together they bypass the USA #1 but considering populations they pass the USA and if look as each state as country that varies quite a bit and considering the Czech rep #27 has gun laws very much like the USA they have less murders and less crime and Switzerland you can take your automatic weapons home after army service there are to many intangibles to get real good statistics the different societies and cultures just like the USA east is different than south…. west is different than southwest with all different laws societies and cultures really there is no way to compare… if you do crime by state but that would not represents the state as a whole because all you need is one bad city i am sorry to say the only way to judge were crime is race and nationality… nobody can say that these places dont have more crime and there are intangibles poverty and drugs and education and the government that allows certain races to stay that way in poverty so they can be get there vote in this sick reverse tyranny by giving them just enough to make them dependent on them with no way out

            +

          • johnnyu

            nationalmaster.com… murders per ca pita most resent by country not …gun murder as for crime like i said England is # 2 the most crime and murder per ca-pita in the EU with Germany# 3 place
            if you add them together they bypass the USA #1 but considering populations they pass the USA and if look as each state as country that varies quite a bit and considering the Czech rep #27 has gun laws very much like the USA they have less murders and less crime and Switzerland you can take your automatic weapons home after army service there are to many intangibles to get real good statistics the different societies and cultures just like the USA east is different than south…. west is different than southwest with all different laws societies and cultures really there is no way to compare… if you do crime by state but that would not represents the state as a whole because all you need is one bad city i am sorry to say the only way to judge were crime is race and nationality… nobody can say that these places dont have more crime and there are intangibles poverty and drugs and education and the government that allows certain races to stay that way in poverty so they can be get there vote in this sick reverse tyranny by giving them just enough to make them dependent on them with no way out

            +

          • johnnyu

            nationalmaster.com… murders per ca pita most resent by country not …gun murder as for crime like i said England is # 2 the most crime and murder per ca-pita in the EU with Germany# 3 place
            if you add them together they bypass the USA #1 but considering populations they pass the USA and if look as each state as country that varies quite a bit and considering the Czech rep #27 has gun laws very much like the USA they have less murders and less crime and Switzerland you can take your automatic weapons home after army service there are to many intangibles to get real good statistics the different societies and cultures just like the USA east is different than south…. west is different than southwest with all different laws societies and cultures really there is no way to compare… if you do crime by state but that would not represents the state as a whole because all you need is one bad city i am sorry to say the only way to judge were crime is race and nationality… nobody can say that these places dont have more crime and there are intangibles poverty and drugs and education and the government that allows certain races to stay that way in poverty so they can be get there vote in this sick reverse tyranny by giving them just enough to make them dependent on them with no way out

            +

          • Alex M

            “there place in the murder rate per capa”

            This looks strange. You have Turkey in first position, but Turkey’s homicide rate is 3.3/100k (cf. US at about 3/100k). You have Lithuania (a country I have lived in) at rank 3, and though the homicide rate there is about 6.5/100k, it’s nowhere near third place, as almost all the top ten places for homicides are in the Americas. You have Switzerland at rank 20, and it’s somewhere twenty places below that, with a rate of about 0.7/100k.

            I’m wondering if you’ve mistranscribed or misunderstood your source.

          • Alex M

            “there place in the murder rate per capa”

            This looks strange. You have Turkey in first position, but Turkey’s homicide rate is 3.3/100k (cf. US at about 3/100k). You have Lithuania (a country I have lived in) at rank 3, and though the homicide rate there is about 6.5/100k, it’s nowhere near third place, as almost all the top ten places for homicides are in the Americas. You have Switzerland at rank 20, and it’s somewhere twenty places below that, with a rate of about 0.7/100k.

            I’m wondering if you’ve mistranscribed or misunderstood your source.

          • Alex M

            “there place in the murder rate per capa”

            This looks strange. You have Turkey in first position, but Turkey’s homicide rate is 3.3/100k (cf. US at about 3/100k). You have Lithuania (a country I have lived in) at rank 3, and though the homicide rate there is about 6.5/100k, it’s nowhere near third place, as almost all the top ten places for homicides are in the Americas. You have Switzerland at rank 20, and it’s somewhere twenty places below that, with a rate of about 0.7/100k.

            I’m wondering if you’ve mistranscribed or misunderstood your source.

          • johnnyu

            there place in the murder rate per capa

          • johnnyu

            there place in the murder rate per capa

          • Alex M

            “here is some rouge countries”

            What do these numbers mean?

          • Alex M

            “here is some rouge countries”

            What do these numbers mean?

          • johnnyu

            here is some rouge countries
            1 turkey 8 Ukraine 10 romania 12 Finland 16 Sweden 20 switzerland 21 Italy 23 Poland 24 Denmark 25 Netherlands 3 lithuania

          • johnnyu

            here is some rouge countries
            1 turkey 8 Ukraine 10 romania 12 Finland 16 Sweden 20 switzerland 21 Italy 23 Poland 24 Denmark 25 Netherlands 3 lithuania

  • John Kugelfischer

    Skip, would you like to join us on a hunting trip? Me and some o’ de boys are gonna, when IL “constitutional carry” commences in seven weeks, take lil jaunts up to Chitcago, the home of the “knockout game,” and, using all our stealth and feigning (right!) drunkenness, set a trap for gangs of students/protesters/inciters (that’s mainstream media-speak for “black thugs and gangbangers”). When they attack, BAM!’

    Beats hunting bucks of another species, don’t it?

  • http://www.facebook.com/edwin.thomas.142 Edwin Thomas

    And now the continued waste of taxpayer dollars begins. Trial, re-trial, appeal and so on. What we need is a little “Jail house justice”!

    • Alex M

      What we need is a trial. Due process is never a waste of taxpayer dollars. Due process is what separates us from the bombers and random killers.

      • http://www.facebook.com/john.selva.31 John Selva

        The non citizen jihadist brother is dead. The younger brother raised his hand last September and took an oath of citizenship. Check out the preamble of the constitution he raised his hand and swore to defend. Rather than turn his murderous brother in to American authorities in defense of the welfare of we the people, he chose to (imho) revoke his rights as an American citizen. What do you think Alex?

        • Alex M

          “What do you think Alex?”

          I think the concept of full trial and due process is not a difficult one to understand. We don’t live in the Old West any more, and we don’t need lynch law in place of US law. Neither is trial by internet mob frenzy a substitute for one of the finest judicial systems on the planet. Terrorists succeed when they disrupt the fundamental functioning of society. Abandon due process of law, and you have delivered them that very success.

    • maritimer

      No, follow the Constitution and the law. No shortcuts. He’ll get his justice. We can’t have mob rule.

  • frankenbiker

    Just remember it was a gun toting neighborhood man that found him, and then held him at bay until the cops cold arrive and take credit for the capture.

    • Alex M

      “Just remember it was a gun toting neighborhood man that found him”

      Credit to Mr Henneberry for acting quickly on his suspicions and calling the police, but there’s no need to over-egg the pudding. It’s a cigarette he was toting, having gone outside to light one when the lockdown had been lifted.

      “and then held him at bay until the cops cold arrive”

      The suspect was seriously wounded and lying unconscious in a pool of blood, from injuries received the previous day, and from what may prove to have been a suicide attempt. “Held at bay” may be over-stating the case.

  • reggiec

    I seem to recall one of our greatest generals making a statement that would apply very well today. General George Patton: “May God have mercy on my enimies because I won’t.”

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ann-Wilson-Kingsley/100000397000382 Ann Wilson Kingsley

    This is why we got the DHS: We were not out there taking care of our own problems. We didn’t stand behind Zimmerman by pitting “White” activists against the “Black” activist thugs who branded Zimmerman a killer when he obviously was defending himself against a black thug who was beating the living daylights out of him. Neighborhood Watch is our first line of organized defense, and Zimmerman was mandated by his Neighborhood Association to watch out for his neighborhood. Police receive an indirect mandate, but Neighborhood Watch receives a direct mandate from those who live in the neighborhood. In my opinion, the direct mandate supersedes the indirect mandate. The Police Department is a proxy relationship whereas Neighborhood Watch is direct and personal – protecting self, family, and neighbors.

    It was hard for me to believe anyone would have been such a sheeple that he didn’t do a security check of his own property, but as we know, it happened in Boston. The terrorist was in a boat in the backyard. I would have checked things out, and if I was fearful of looking into the boat, I would have borrowed a baby monitor, plugged it into an extension cord, and set it up on the boat. Someone scrambling around in a boat makes a lot of noise. Monitor the boat from a distance. If noise comes from the boat, call the police. I’m a girl with no gun.

  • DigitheadRex

    The best thing a citizen can do in a situation like occurred in Boston and its suburbs is to be vigilant and watch his property and neighborhood. Mobs of untrained, pissed off citizens would only get in the police’s way. In the end, as noted below, it was a vigilant citizen, not a cowering sheep, who gave the police the information they needed to apprehend the perpetrator.

    With every citizen watching his small part of the whole, the bad guy had no place to hide and no way to go unnoticed for long.

  • Breeze13

    This is what the police have been practicing for. To see if they can shut down an entire city, and the sheep go along with it. I have noticed the last few years at motorcycle rallies the police do the same thing. Las Vegas bikefest, (copfest), is the same way. They are seeing how far they can go to make people obey the “law”. They aren’t “keeping you safe”, they are just controlling you.

    • shamu9

      Ex-Freakin’ Xactly, Martial Law Practice!

    • Alex M

      Time to issue all citizens with tinfoil hats.

      • Breeze13

        Alex, just go hide under your bed like they tell you.

        • Alex M

          I’d miss all the excitement.

          • jany38

            I think not Alex. I believe you have all the excitement you can handle, i.e.
            sitting around cuffing your carrot. As my dear mother would say, “you talk like you have a paper a**hole.

          • Alex M

            “As my dear mother would say, “you talk like you have a paper a**hole.”

            Your dear mother had a way with words! I think I shall pinch that, and await an opportunity to use it myself!

  • leejay

    Part of the problem with just out right killing these
    terrorist as has been the Obama method of choice is that we lose the capacity
    to gather intelligence. Some of these wak-a-doodles know more, some may know
    less, but to be playing search and destroy after the fact is not helping to
    avoid future mayhem. We need the intelligence gathering that got us Bin Ladden.
    Then you can execute.

  • http://www.facebook.com/john.selva.31 John Selva

    Best statement on citizen’s reaction I’ve read yet! America needs to wake up and smell the evil. We also need to send a clear message to Congress – “What part of ‘shall not be infringed’ don’t you understand?”

  • http://www.facebook.com/george.rowe.54379 George Rowe

    Obama makes himself a liar nearly every time he opens his mouth.

    He did tell the truth when he said “We will Fundamentally Change the United States of America” may not be the exact quote (and when he said and wrote I am from Kenya.) Fundamentally Change means to destroy, reduce to rubble (the twin towers) and replace. With what? Some form of Omnipotent Oligarchy, all powerful government of a few by that few for that few!

    This isn’t new. It is the way the world was run for thousands of years.

    The Athenians instituted a democracy that was quickly taken over by a few powerful men who ran things much as they liked. A pure democracy is little more than mob rule until taken over by the few.

    Our founding fathers knew these things and steadfastly stood by their convictions. Suggest you read the “Anti-Federalist Papers” as well as “The Federalist Papers.” Also, “Secret History of The American Revolution” and a new book “Founding Rivals: Madison vs. Monroe.”

    “Remember, the average IQ is about a hundred, don’t expect too much.”

    (My quote from 50+ years ago.)

    No denigration intended just recognition of the human race of which we are a part. There is only ONE human race.

    George

  • Harvey817

    I have my doubts that the city has the Constitutional authority to tell citizens that they can not leave their houses short of declaring martial law.

    • Alex M

      I can see, on the one hand, why it would make sense to comply. Whilst in terms of terrorist bombing effectiveness, the Boston bombing was a failure (acknowledging that innocents lost their lives and even more were severely injured), there was no telling what further atrocities were ready and waiting, and where and when they might happen. It’s been over a decade since the September 11th attacks, but it will be a long time before that wound is not as raw and weeping in the collective consciousness. It seems to me that the police and associated forces acted with promptness, resolve, and a high degree of professionalism, aided by the vigilance and quick thinking of an ordinary citizen. I honestly think most people would understand the rationale behind the ‘lockdown’, and appreciate the outcome.

      • Harvey817

        Alex I do agree somewhat with your statement. I just do think the city has legal authority to require all of it’s citizens to stay inside heir homes. Martial law would be required to enforce this. This act was not required on 911 or in Oklahoma city. I do understand how it could possibly help law enforcement officials, but is this legal to do so?

        • Alex M

          “but is this legal to do so?”

          I’m honestly not sure, Harvey. But if I were the Chief of Police faced with a serious terrorist incident, I’d be thinking along the lines that the British learned during the height of the troubles in Northern Ireland, where terrorist bombings were accompanied by secondary booby-trap bombs designed to go off when emergency services and medical services arrived on the blast scene, and I’d assume the bombers had accomplices with plans to detonate other bombs at different locations and different times. There’s a sight too many people, I think, criticising the response units for being outwitted by a solitary nineteen-year-old, but such after-the-fact reasoning is easy from an armchair that’s a long way off from the danger. There are going to be occasions that, with the best will in the world, the framers of the Constitution could not have foreseen, and sometimes we have to make a judgement call and face the consequences, where the consequences of failure to act could have been far worse.

          • Harvey817

            Alex I like your response to my statement, but respectfully disagree with it. I spent over thirty five years in a city governmental department. My last few years were overseeing The Domestic Preparedness Program for out area. There is no Constitutional allowance for the police to force entry into someone’s home to search it without a court order. I have a problem with the police kicking in doors to search a house when nobody was home. The city does not have the Constitutional authority to close down a city and tell the citizens to stay home and not come out of their home. The citizens were already alerted to the possible presence of the terrorist and I feel like anyone of them would have reported seeing him to the authorities. The police when heavily armed and forcing entry into homes could have resulted in innocent people being shot inside their own homes for no legitimate reason. I am on the side of supporting law enforcement officials when they are Constitutionally right. We should be very very leery of willingly giving up any of our Constitutional Rights for the feel good acts that can and probably will destroy our country’s freedom.
            Thank you for your reply and I hope I have not offended you.
            I am all for the law enforcement officials doing what is Constitutionally

          • Alex M

            “Thank you for your reply and I hope I have not offended you”

            My word no, it’s a pleasure to have such a well reasoned and explained response. Your caveats on the exercise of power beyond what is lawful are appropriate and sensible.

    • Paladin

      I’ll say amen to that! It was marshal law without declaring it. I could not believe they shut down a whole city of over a half-million people just to capture one man. Nothing like that happened at Oklahoma City when they caught the Murrah Building bomber. Only the people’s republic of Massachuttes could master-mind something like that.

  • Dan S.

    Ok, as a Marine Corps veteran you should know that a hellfire rocket would take out a good portion of that neighborhood. Do seriously want to take all those innocent lives just for one idiot? In my mind, that would be far too much unnecessary collateral damage. Yes, I too am a veteran Navy Hospital Corpsman (FMF), and Army Signal Corps. I agree we need to dispose of these people. In doing so we really do need to seriously consider the collateral damage that we may incur unnecessarily.

  • VeeDub57

    I really didn’t see a whole lot of “cops” running around Boston.

    I did see a lot a of paramilitary commandos, armed with weapons of war and fully
    automatic assault weapons designed to kill large numbers of people rapidly.

    I saw armed soldiers who have been trained in military and gestapo type tactics controlling the citizens of a town with fear and intimidation.

    I saw Americans, who took an oath to defend the Constitution, ordering American citizens to surrender their Constitutional rights pertaining to unconstitutional searches.

    I saw how easily swarms of armed soldiers can, and will, intimidate a town into submission, while pretending to be operating as a law enforcement agency.

    I saw something more scary than muslim bombers! I saw soldiers dozens upon dozens of rounds at a target and miss! Where did all of those sloppily fired bullets go?

  • gundog1911

    If I lived in the Boston area I would have loved to have left my house with
    my arsenal and hunted down the little punk’s behind but I would be scared I
    would be shot by some trigger-happy LEO faster that the terrorist. There were
    some jacked-up cops out there last week.

  • jason

    I’d rather get information out of him and than deal with him.

    • Alex M

      Hopefully that will follow from interrogation. The outlook at present doesn’t seem good, since he has a throat wound (possibly self-inflicted) that will make communication very difficult. My instinctive feeling (no reliable guide, I’m sure) is that there were no accomplices, but at least it would mean something if it were possible to find out what motivated these senseless acts.

  • refuse2lose

    I assume that the next time our government tells us we have a “terrorist”at large, you will once again call for a drone strike…. you might want to find out what their definition of a terrorist is.

  • KroekerMom

    Skip, don’t be too anxious to take away this man’s rights. From what we’ve heard from the government, he seems to be the one responsible, but we don’t know that yet. The original Saudi “Person of interest” is being deported after Obama had an unscheduled meeting with a member of the Saudi government and Michelle supposedly met with the suspect in the hospital. If this new suspect is found guilty by a court, punish him with the death sentence, but until we know all of the facts, we should not be so quick to assume guilt. It is better to delay a guilty man’s punishment than to kill an innocent man.

    I understand the feeling that people should stand up for their defense and not cower and wait for someone else to take care of them, just don’t steal someone’s natural rights in the process.

  • Sarah Conner

    the wolf is at the door…not anymore…he’s inside and about to slaughter all the sheeple that he can find…cowering means you are a coward…gotta bullet with your name on it…kill’em all,let God sort’em out…

  • Carline D. Long Jr.

    We would have been safer with good people with guns taking this madman down instead of this shelter in Place. I cannot believe how Ghestapo Forces treated the sheeple when they demanded to search their homes! Put you hands up, get out and keep your hands up even though we have already searched you, move to where they tell you outside “keep your damn hands up!”

    • Alex M

      If I were having my premises searched for a terrorist hideaway, I’d rather it be by a trained team of experts, than a citizen posse whose experience in terrorism has been largely confined to what they’ve seen on TV.

      • johnnyu

        to protect your family you are going to wait for experts you dont need to be a genius point and press the trigger …maybe you can save your family and not be the next hostage…. nobody’s asking you to search for terrorist…. just defend yourself and family….. those experts shot over 200 rounds and missed… it wasn’t until the terrorist ran out of ammo.. that they shot him and the other one got away.. and almost ran the police over… that’s experts.!!!! you keep wait for those experts and hide in your basement i will wait with my ar 15 with 30 rounds
        i want to protect my family not cower in the basement in terror

        • Alex M

          I think you may be responding to a different question. All this tells me is that shooting the bad guy isn’t suddenly going to become easier the less trained you are in weapons and conflict situations.

  • johnnyu

    1 terrorist stop all of Boston what would 10 do with AK 47 walk in gun free zones movie theaters …schools committing mass killings throwing pipe bombs shut down the state shut down east coast no buses no trains stopped… all stores closed …. people hiding in the basement cowering in terror in Boston ..it cost millions stocks went down… 1 terrorist did this… 10 terrorist the stock market would crash it would cost billions the east coast would be hiding in there basements. for weeks..you think the terrorist dont know this …look at Colorado 1 guy with a gun started panic at a pot smokers convention many injured running over people…. you cannot own a gun in some of these state so you have to hide in the basement cowering like in Boston. until the police get there… that’s crazy he is not Godzilla this not world war 2 the Nazi are not bombing us ….. its one guy with a crock pot……. luckily i live in florida and we dont have basement.. only sink holes and we can own a gun so i sit in my living room with the front door open when my golden retriever barks i get up with my 30 round AR 15 you guy in the states that you cant own guns have fun cowering in the basement,,,,, Hitler just sent godzilla with a crock pot HIDE EVERYONE

    • Alex M

      “you cannot own a gun in some of these state”

      Which states are these?

      • johnnyu

        NYC to get a gun you have to wait five years than you have to show a need like carry a lot a cash for your business… and your chance are not that good and 7 bullets only… in Conn. you can only have 1 bullet in a gun that’s like having no gun at all …if you miss all you are going to do is piss him off…. its a musket thats what liberals want you to own …..you are right you can have a gun if you can get one….. but they make it so hard the restrictions make it useless and if you shoot someone they can sue you and the criminal will be living in your home ….that happen in NYC ….and if you do get gun.. you have to keep the bullet separate from the gun …like the gun in glove box and ammo in trunk

        • Alex M

          Ah right, so it’s tough gun control rather than outright prohibition. It would be interesting to know if any assailant had been shot and subsequently successfully sued his intended victim. That would be harsh.

  • Scott Snoopy

    what an intelligent contribution …wow…your puter name says it all…

  • shamu9

    Go Have sex with yourself, you Goddamned Pussy!

  • johnnyu

    stupid liberal …..yes your right…. we are going outside and shoot at each other because we are just as stupid as you are dick !!! defend your family and home not run through the streets fighting with swat

  • Scott Snoopy

    dude quit drinking the kool aid…it clouds your brain…you are the one with the jaded view of people who believe in self reliance, protection of family and self…not letting the gubmint be our nanny, protector, feeder, health provider…but that is what progressives want and thrive on

  • shamu9

    See my post above. Move to the Social Progressive Paradise of Britain, with the rest of the American Hater Weenies!

  • Scott Snoopy

    since I believe all of those who LEGALLY can purchase and carry a firearm of their choosing, its not a problem in my eyes. When given responsibility people tend to be responsible …it seems to have worked in the country’s formative years. I know progressives hate the idea of people taking responsibility for their actions, protection, etc…so it is pointless to go there…you have a nice day…I know I will, its a NASCAR day and before that its time to shoot a pistol match

  • Alex M

    Actually, it is an intelligent contribution. People make mistakes. Look how the ‘crowd-sourcing’ that went on in the likes of 4Chan and Facebook ‘identified’ completely innocent people as suspects, which with a 600,000 posse roaming the streets looking for vengeance, could have led to untold catastrophic results that out-did the bombing itself for lethality.

  • Alex M

    “we are going outside and shoot at each other because we are just as stupid as you”

    Around 800-900 people are killed accidentally by firearms every year. That attrition rate is unlikely to vanish when people start forming armed posses.

  • johnnyu

    you want facts more people die in accidents in the home than with guns lets.. ban homes do you see how stupid the argument is… and i can go on and on …. the truth is that the government sides with me.. they expect collateral damage… in case in the 1950 they found that a plastic.. was giving people cancer when heated by the sun in cars i wont go into the whole story its to long heres the short version.. the law suits piled in and the government step in…. and this was their statement ….the government finds that there is RISK in all we do in life… we find that the benefit of plastic out weighs the risk,,,, they say that about food additives for shelf life .and other things……. so take that self righteousness to st Jude hospital tell those kid that the government thinks a bottle of coke in plastic bottle is more important than their life is……i feel the same way as the government…. the benefit of owning a gun….. out weighs the risk of not owning one …..yes people will die…….. but more will live

  • Alex M

    “you want facts more people die in accidents in the home than with guns”

    This is a different argument. The current issue is whether armed citizens should be involved in a manhunt, and the risks involved of more innocent people being killed and injured in the process, whether through accident or mis-identification. Since there is already a substantial accident rate with firearms, there’s no grounds whatsoever for naive optimism that that accident rate will suddenly reduce to zero when there’s an armed posse on the streets.

    “.yes people will die…….. but more will live”

    The death statistics are against you. For every gun death in self-defence, there are about three dozen gun homicides. For every occurrence of a firearms death in self-defence, there are almost a third more unintentional deaths due to firearms.

    More are dying than living.

  • johnnyu

    FBI does not keep statistic on how many were saved by guns only deaths and include officers who had to kill a criminal’s……… saved lives would out weigh death ten fold….. think if someone would have shot the terrorist before they plant bombs 1 death 108 saved if some shot the kid at new town before he got in the school 1 death 31 saved get it you dont know how many you have saved hard to count that easy to count death it final saved lives is abstract

  • Alex M

    If you have reliable statistics to show that guns save lives, then by all means, present them.

    If the theory holds, then the prediction, if guns save lives, must be that the higher the gun density, the lower the homicide rate (that’s necessarily true, by hypothesis, since it’s what the words mean). If you cannot show this to be the case, then your argument is necessarily confounded. You may find this difficult.

  • johnnyu

    no man can tell the future but if the bomber got away the… fact …that

    there would be more dead …they had more bombs if i shot adolf hitler i would have save millions this is a fact…. a mad man bend on killing will not stop.until he runs of people to kill or run out of ammo to think any differently is stupidity. when ever the shot is taken many more lives will be saved… fact.. if the kids in columbine were not trap they would continue to kill they took there live because there was no way out and like cowards they were shot themselves as did the bomber except he missed.. in the boat.. and the kid at new town stop when trapped and the colorado killer was going out to get another gun before he got stopped or he would killed more… fact… that would have end the same way once trapped ….. killers dead 5…….. saved hundreds and a facts

  • Alex M

    But now you are relying on imaginary numbers, hypothetical numbers that don’t exist, and ignoring the fact that the enabling reason massacres like Columbine and Sandy Hook took place is that of high firearms density. Massacres are rare in countries with low firearms density. They happen, for sure, but at nowhere near the rate of the US.

    It is necessarily true for your argument that the existing high firearms density should be allied to a low average homicide rate. If it is not, then firearms are not saving lives. That’s an emprical fact.

  • johnnyu

    Illinois has the strictest gun laws and the highest murder rate states that have concealed carry permits have the lowest murder rates this show less murders the more ….. LEGAL GUNS its on YouTube FBI statistics you want numbers look them up they are all over the Internet and you will pick the ones you want see and believe just remember if a sniper didnt shoot british general burgoyne in in the revolutionary war Canada and america would be one country under the queen
    Jeffery dahmer thanked the police because he could not stop himself from killing i would like to find a scientist that would let a murder keep killing just so he could give you statistics and the numbers you want

  • Alex M

    I don’t think you’re quite getting the argument here. The US has the highest gun density in the developed world, and the highest gun homicide rate. The UK has possibly the strictest gun control legislation in the world and one of the lowest gun density rates, and one of the lowest firearms homicide rates in the world. It is a similar story throughout Europe. High gun density = high gun homicide rate. Low gun density = low gun homicide rate. The disparity is so high that the US ranks as an outlier when the death rates are shown graphically.

    If high gun density meant more lives saved, then the US would be the safest place to live on the planet.

    In the developed world, it’s the most dangerous.

    It’s not a question of finding the statistics or numbers I want. These are what the statistics show.

  • johnnyu

    everyone has choices you like England you can move…. the state runs everything its a. social experiment England has had a couple of riots..where prince Charles car was attacked a country with no identity so many muslims and other europeans the way to find an…Englishman is look for the drunk….a country sedated on booze easily manipulated people the united states is different than all countrys it is free until you can get every state in the union to change the constitution you will have to live with collateral damage ….i have a right to defend myself and my family you choose not to do that…..that’s your right ….dont infringe mine… i have not killed anyone or broken any laws… you dont like crime…. wait for the police…. oh.. by the way they get there after the crime is committed .. so your choice let them carry you away in a body bag i want them to carry the criminal away in the body bag……you can go to Mexico … they even stronger laws than england’s there death rate is just fine…. i think its up to 20,000 this year… you got president obama and we got congress…. and soon the senate… you know everyone dosent live in the city or suburb’s …. it can take a hour in some places to see a police officer.. and having a firearm until they can get there is the only way to keep a famliy safe. i know you think if everyone would just think like me.. the world would be a better place… and we would have this-perfect utopia if they would stay in there assigned places and do what i tell them …this Orwellian place were there is no need of god… because you have taken his place…. free will is wonderful…. i hope you get your world……. just dont invite me

  • Alex M

    I think it’s important to focus on the issue, and not be distracted by tangential matters that have little or nothing to do with it.

    England had a couple of riots, but these were related to an enormously unpopular tax that Margaret Thatcher tried to drive through, the Poll Tax, only the second time in English history a Poll Tax had been attempted, the previous attempt being in the fourteenth century and which resulted in the Peasants’ Revolt.

    It is telling that you need to go to countries with thuggish regimes and gangster infestations in order to exceed the firearms attrition rates of the US. With respect, it’s improper to try to justify high firearms density in a population by lumping the United States with banana republics instead of where it belongs, countries with the highest states of political and judicial and social development, and which are economically successful.

    Compare the death rates from firearms in the US with that of England. For every person killed by a firearm in England, there are 42 people shot to death in the US. This ratio is insanely high, particularly as it’s not an absolute number, it’s a population-adjusted rate.

    In the past four months alone, more people have been slain by firearms in the US than were killed by the Septermber 11 attacks. It’s like having the Twin Towers every four months. More people have been shot dead in the US in these same past four months alone than the total number of US soldiers who lost their lives in combat in Iraq.

    These are not the “price of freedom”. These are preventable deaths.

  • johnnyu

    i have given you the chain reaction theory ….it is what makes the atomic bomb go boom.. it is in physics every action causes a re action you say more people are killed with guns i say more people are saved i gave you examples if some shoot the new town kid before he got in the school 35 people saved 1 killer dead you say you want facts i say this is an abstract theory but it works because the atomic bomb works like worm holes like black-holes these are abstract ideas like the theory of evolution i haven’t seen any gorilla change into human lately yet people take it as FACT…!!!!!! to think that adolf Hitler would have stopped killing Jews while he is winning the war when he didn’t when he was losing the war is is just stupid ……so think a Boston bomber would have stop bombing if he didn’t get shot …having more bombs on them .you have to be a nitwit…. so i put to you… if i shot adolf Hitler half way through the war i would have saved millions if i shot the bombers….. in turn i would have saved all those people…. to think that when a police officer dosent save other peoples lives with his gun when he stop a serial killer is ludacris ….. in your thinking that all guns dont save lives….. only the ones that are used by the police..save lives .. if that’s your thinking… than guns do save more than they kill…. just not with the right people…… but then you are admitted that guns do save lives,,,and more than kill,, only that they must be police or soldiers…. you think that it is impossible that a layman.. no matter how much training he has had can not save lives that is ridicules and stupid

  • Alex M

    First, I’m sorry for the delayed response, as I have been on an extended trip. I sent an email reply to the notification Disqus sent of your reply to me, saying my reply would be delayed by my trip, but I don’t think my reply made it through to the forum. I promised a reply, however, and it follows.

    “i have given you the chain reaction theory ….it is what makes the atomic bomb go boom.. “

    I understand the principle of chain reaction, but I suspect you do not. There is no chain reaction process at work here. If a low firearms density led to increased homicide rates, then this would be true everywhere there was a low firearms density. It is not. You may get increased homicide rates in countries and atypical states (I mean ‘state’ as a recognized autonomous political entity, not a state of the US) where there is inherent lawlessness, but that is not the case in the US and in similarly developed states. In developed countries, where there is low firearms density, there are low homicide rates from firearms, no ‘chain reaction’ explosion of homicides.

    “i say more people are saved i gave you examples “

    You didn’t give examples, you gave a piece of post hoc rationalization, which is not the same thing. I asked for statistics to support the proposition that high firearms density led to low homicide rates, and you gave nothing, merely a piece of ‘wishful thinking’ type hindsight.

    It is true that there will be instances where the production of a firearm in a crime attempt situation will result in the assailant being deterred or incapacitated. I am not arguing otherwise, and I know of know one who does. The core of the argument concerns what happens in the broader picture over time, in terms of average outcomes. In the longer term, there are more outcomes in which innocent people are killed by mistake or by accident, than outcomes in which someone’s safety is preserved by use of or threat to use a firearm.

    Imagine that a pharmaceutical company produced a drug that ‘protected’ against a particular disease, where the disease killed 5% of the infected population. Imagine further that the side-effects of the drug were that 8% of the target population died from the effects of the drug. The drug treatment outcome is that lives are definitely saved, but at the expense of a larger number of lives lost due to the same treatment. Would you license such a drug on those comparative outcomes?

    “these are abstract ideas like the theory of evolution i haven’t seen any gorilla change into human lately yet people take it as FACT”

    Interesting as this topic is, it’s tangential, but as you raise it, it’s worth noting that it’s pointless to criticize the theory of evolution on the basis of failing a prediction it doesn’t actually make. The theory of evolution doesn’t say that apes change into humans, it says that apes and humans have a common ancestor, which is a different thing entirely.

  • johnnyu

    listen president Obama believes in the same abstract theory… have you ever hear of saved jobs…. the president said that if he gives away 800 million dollars in the stimulus bill to to mostly his friends that it will save jobs.. police.. fireman.. nurses and teachers… now there is no way to count saved jobs….. but you can count the unemployed.. like you can count the dead,, because it has a finality to it … his claim.. that he saved millions of jobs by giving out millions of dollars is the sames idea.. that i have… give out millions of guns… and i claimed that guns saved millions of lives there is no way to count how many people were saved in ether idea are you telling me the president has lied to the American people

  • Alex M

    “and i claimed that guns saved millions of lives there is no way to count how many people were saved “

    This is self-contradictory.

    However, suppose it is the case that the extensive presence of firearms in US society saves lives. This means that the underlying violence rate in homicides is significantly higher than the already high homicide rate, which is exceeds that Canada, Switzerland, England, Norway, Germany, Sweden, Australia, The Netherlands, Ireland, all added together.

    Your argument is therefore not only that the US is an extreme outlier among developed countries for homicide rates, but it’s even worse than we think.

    Even intuitively, that’s a flaky argument.

  • Alex M

    “and i claimed that guns saved millions of lives there is no way to count how many people were saved “

    This is self-contradictory.

    However, suppose it is the case that the extensive presence of firearms in US society saves lives. This means that the underlying violence rate in homicides is significantly higher than the already high homicide rate, which is exceeds that Canada, Switzerland, England, Norway, Germany, Sweden, Australia, The Netherlands, Ireland, all added together.

    Your argument is therefore not only that the US is an extreme outlier among developed countries for homicide rates, but it’s even worse than we think.

    Even intuitively, that’s a flaky argument.

  • Alex M

    “and i claimed that guns saved millions of lives there is no way to count how many people were saved “

    This is self-contradictory.

    However, suppose it is the case that the extensive presence of firearms in US society saves lives. This means that the underlying violence rate in homicides is significantly higher than the already high homicide rate, which is exceeds that Canada, Switzerland, England, Norway, Germany, Sweden, Australia, The Netherlands, Ireland, all added together.

    Your argument is therefore not only that the US is an extreme outlier among developed countries for homicide rates, but it’s even worse than we think.

    Even intuitively, that’s a flaky argument.

  • johnnyu

    you think the gun is the motive for murder if i took every gun in Chicago away and moved them all to Germany …you watch that murder rate climb… it is social and environmental and economic problems… and also they dont have the same drug problem as USA.. this has nothing to do with the guns what have here… is what a black quarterback said ..its tribal it a black thing… 70% of the murders are committed by 13 % of the population… blacks fact ….. 14% by the Hispanics..fact…. 4% whites fact… why cant i make an argument that if we would remove all the blacks and Hispanic from the u.s.a. instead of guns that the murder rate would go down drastically 84%of the murders….and has nothing to to do with a gun.. this is the same argument as yours…. just removing the true reason for the high murder rate….. you think if you remove guns the murder rate will go down…thats like saying hilter would stop killing jews if i take away his ovens. i say remove the people that commit murders that will stop the murder rate…… and then whole country can own a gun and the murder rate would not go up 1%.. again you blame the gun…. not the person that uses it you blame the inadament object for the murder rate …..,how many Mexicans are in germany does germany share a porous border with a country that supplies drugs at will …this the real reason for the high murder rate this why your argument dosent hold water guns dont kill people… people kill people ..remove the people and the murder rate goes down..to think if a murderer could not get a gun….he will stop murdering….. is just stupidity

  • johnnyu

    you think the gun is the motive for murder if i took every gun in Chicago away and moved them all to Germany …you watch that murder rate climb… it is social and environmental and economic problems… and also they dont have the same drug problem as USA.. this has nothing to do with the guns what have here… is what a black quarterback said ..its tribal it a black thing… 70% of the murders are committed by 13 % of the population… blacks fact ….. 14% by the Hispanics..fact…. 4% whites fact… why cant i make an argument that if we would remove all the blacks and Hispanic from the u.s.a. instead of guns that the murder rate would go down drastically 84%of the murders….and has nothing to to do with a gun.. this is the same argument as yours…. just removing the true reason for the high murder rate….. you think if you remove guns the murder rate will go down…thats like saying hilter would stop killing jews if i take away his ovens. i say remove the people that commit murders that will stop the murder rate…… and then whole country can own a gun and the murder rate would not go up 1%.. again you blame the gun…. not the person that uses it you blame the inadament object for the murder rate …..,how many Mexicans are in germany does germany share a porous border with a country that supplies drugs at will …this the real reason for the high murder rate this why your argument dosent hold water guns dont kill people… people kill people ..remove the people and the murder rate goes down..to think if a murderer could not get a gun….he will stop murdering….. is just stupidity

  • johnnyu

    you think the gun is the motive for murder if i took every gun in Chicago away and moved them all to Germany …you watch that murder rate climb… it is social and environmental and economic problems… and also they dont have the same drug problem as USA.. this has nothing to do with the guns what have here… is what a black quarterback said ..its tribal it a black thing… 70% of the murders are committed by 13 % of the population… blacks fact ….. 14% by the Hispanics..fact…. 4% whites fact… why cant i make an argument that if we would remove all the blacks and Hispanic from the u.s.a. instead of guns that the murder rate would go down drastically 84%of the murders….and has nothing to to do with a gun.. this is the same argument as yours…. just removing the true reason for the high murder rate….. you think if you remove guns the murder rate will go down…thats like saying hilter would stop killing jews if i take away his ovens. i say remove the people that commit murders that will stop the murder rate…… and then whole country can own a gun and the murder rate would not go up 1%.. again you blame the gun…. not the person that uses it you blame the inadament object for the murder rate …..,how many Mexicans are in germany does germany share a porous border with a country that supplies drugs at will …this the real reason for the high murder rate this why your argument dosent hold water guns dont kill people… people kill people ..remove the people and the murder rate goes down..to think if a murderer could not get a gun….he will stop murdering….. is just stupidity

  • johnnyu

    remove the blacks and Hispanic that is a total 84% of the murder rate are caused by them..according to the FBI statistics move them to Germany or Ireland will they stop killing

  • johnnyu

    remove the blacks and Hispanic that is a total 84% of the murder rate are caused by them..according to the FBI statistics move them to Germany or Ireland will they stop killing

  • Alex M

    “guns dont kill people… people kill people”

    People kill people, but they use guns to do so because it is more effective, more deadly, and more efficient. This is why troops have firearms, and the country is not defended by a regiment of pikesmen.

    “to think if a murderer could not get a gun….he will stop murdering….. is just stupidity”

    You can’t, it’s true, eliminate the acquisition of guns by the truly determined. But it is also a necessary corollary that easier is it to acquire a gun, the less ‘determined’ one has to be to acquire a gun, and the more guns will be in the hands of those who otherwise wouldn’t have one. Of the shooting massacres in the US over the last twenty years, over 75% have been carried out with legally obtained firearms.

    Of the nine most developed countries (UN data), let’s look at a graphical representation of comparative gun homicide rates

    x
    xx
    xxx
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    xx
    xxxxx
    xxxxx
    xx
    xxxx
    xxxxxxxx
    x

    Can you spot which one is the US?

    In presentation order, they are Norway, Australia, Netherlands, guess where, New Zealand, Canada, Ireland, Germany, Sweden, Switzerland, and England. Notice too how Switzerland, the ‘poster child’ of the gun lobby for high firearms density and zero gun crime, is actually the highest of the European countries, not the lowest, which is jointly England and Norway. Can you guess which country has the highest firearms density?

  • Alex M

    “guns dont kill people… people kill people”

    People kill people, but they use guns to do so because it is more effective, more deadly, and more efficient. This is why troops have firearms, and the country is not defended by a regiment of pikesmen.

    “to think if a murderer could not get a gun….he will stop murdering….. is just stupidity”

    You can’t, it’s true, eliminate the acquisition of guns by the truly determined. But it is also a necessary corollary that easier is it to acquire a gun, the less ‘determined’ one has to be to acquire a gun, and the more guns will be in the hands of those who otherwise wouldn’t have one. Of the shooting massacres in the US over the last twenty years, over 75% have been carried out with legally obtained firearms.

    Of the nine most developed countries (UN data), let’s look at a graphical representation of comparative gun homicide rates

    x
    xx
    xxx
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    xx
    xxxxx
    xxxxx
    xx
    xxxx
    xxxxxxxx
    x

    Can you spot which one is the US?

    In presentation order, they are Norway, Australia, Netherlands, guess where, New Zealand, Canada, Ireland, Germany, Sweden, Switzerland, and England. Notice too how Switzerland, the ‘poster child’ of the gun lobby for high firearms density and zero gun crime, is actually the highest of the European countries, not the lowest, which is jointly England and Norway. Can you guess which country has the highest firearms density?

  • johnnyu

    it funny these countries you pick have all predominantly white populations this only proves the FBI statistics are right… fact.. only 4% of the murders are committed by whites .. how many Mexicans are in Sweden.. i can raise there murder rate easily…. make there population 13 percent black and add some Mexicans add some drugs and poverty there murder rate would the same as ours if not worst.. also they have less dense populations and smaller cities why didn’t you pick Brazil… gun are illegal there or Columbia or Mexico or some country in Africa were guns are illegal no you picked all white countries isn’t that funny………. on your chart can you pick the out the country with the most …blacks and Latinos in it… isn’t that funny that’s the country with the most murders……. that chart works well… it makes my point people kill people i believe that in one of the Norwegian countries everyone has to join the army at the end of there service they can take their rife home with them… you have a whole country with AR 15 rifles which are still fully automatic….. and your right their murder rate is lower than ours… which proves my point again a whole country with Sig AR 15s and a low murder rate so again people kill people not the guns the whole country has one …….and less murders the country is Switzerland

  • johnnyu

    it funny these countries you pick have all predominantly white populations this only proves the FBI statistics are right… fact.. only 4% of the murders are committed by whites .. how many Mexicans are in Sweden.. i can raise there murder rate easily…. make there population 13 percent black and add some Mexicans add some drugs and poverty there murder rate would the same as ours if not worst.. also they have less dense populations and smaller cities why didn’t you pick Brazil… gun are illegal there or Columbia or Mexico or some country in Africa were guns are illegal no you picked all white countries isn’t that funny………. on your chart can you pick the out the country with the most …blacks and Latinos in it… isn’t that funny that’s the country with the most murders……. that chart works well… it makes my point people kill people i believe that in one of the Norwegian countries everyone has to join the army at the end of there service they can take their rife home with them… you have a whole country with AR 15 rifles which are still fully automatic….. and your right their murder rate is lower than ours… which proves my point again a whole country with Sig AR 15s and a low murder rate so again people kill people not the guns the whole country has one …….and less murders the country is Switzerland

  • Alex M

    “Columbia or Mexico or some country in Africa “

    The only way in which you can show higher murder rates than the US is to lump the US with third world banana republics where criminal corruption is endemic. The US is far too sophisticated and developed a country for it to be tarred with the same brush as these. The comparison is between civilized and developed countries, with functioning political and judicial systems, leaders in the world of social and technological ability, not impoverished and shark-infested territories ruled by despots.

    “and less murders the country is Switzerland”

    Switzerland has the highest homicide rate of the Europoean countries, behind the US. It’s the one second from the bottom in the graphical display I posted earlier.

    It has only a 5% black population, but the highest of the European homicide rates.

    How do you explain this?

  • Alex M

    “Columbia or Mexico or some country in Africa “

    The only way in which you can show higher murder rates than the US is to lump the US with third world banana republics where criminal corruption is endemic. The US is far too sophisticated and developed a country for it to be tarred with the same brush as these. The comparison is between civilized and developed countries, with functioning political and judicial systems, leaders in the world of social and technological ability, not impoverished and shark-infested territories ruled by despots.

    “and less murders the country is Switzerland”

    Switzerland has the highest homicide rate of the Europoean countries, behind the US. It’s the one second from the bottom in the graphical display I posted earlier.

    It has only a 5% black population, but the highest of the European homicide rates.

    How do you explain this?

  • Alex M

    “Norwegian countries everyone has to join the army at the end of there service they can take their rife home with them… you have a whole country with AR 15 rifles which are still fully automatic….. and your right their murder rate is lower than ours… which proves my point again a whole country with Sig AR 15s and a low murder rate”

    This does not prove your point.

    Gun ownership per 100 population :-

    US : 89
    Norway : 31

    Homicide rates :

    US : 2.97
    Norway : 0.05

    If this ‘proved your point’, the homicide rate rankings would be the other way around.

    “and less murders the country is Switzerland”

    Switzerland’s gun ownership rate is 46 per 100 population, higher than Norway’s. Its firearms homicide rate is 0.77. Higher than Norway’s.

    If this, too, ‘proved your point’, the homicide rate rankings would be the other way around. They’re not.

  • Alex M

    “Norwegian countries everyone has to join the army at the end of there service they can take their rife home with them… you have a whole country with AR 15 rifles which are still fully automatic….. and your right their murder rate is lower than ours… which proves my point again a whole country with Sig AR 15s and a low murder rate”

    This does not prove your point.

    Gun ownership per 100 population :-

    US : 89
    Norway : 31

    Homicide rates :

    US : 2.97
    Norway : 0.05

    If this ‘proved your point’, the homicide rate rankings would be the other way around.

    “and less murders the country is Switzerland”

    Switzerland’s gun ownership rate is 46 per 100 population, higher than Norway’s. Its firearms homicide rate is 0.77. Higher than Norway’s.

    If this, too, ‘proved your point’, the homicide rate rankings would be the other way around. They’re not.

  • Alex M

    “Norwegian countries everyone has to join the army at the end of there service they can take their rife home with them… you have a whole country with AR 15 rifles which are still fully automatic….. and your right their murder rate is lower than ours… which proves my point again a whole country with Sig AR 15s and a low murder rate”

    This does not prove your point.

    Gun ownership per 100 population :-

    US : 89
    Norway : 31

    Homicide rates :

    US : 2.97
    Norway : 0.05

    If this ‘proved your point’, the homicide rate rankings would be the other way around.

    “and less murders the country is Switzerland”

    Switzerland’s gun ownership rate is 46 per 100 population, higher than Norway’s. Its firearms homicide rate is 0.77. Higher than Norway’s.

    If this, too, ‘proved your point’, the homicide rate rankings would be the other way around. They’re not.

  • johnnyu

    between just Germany and Britain only….. they surpasses the crime rate of the united states including Alaska for there size of area if you took all of the European or civilized countries it would be 10 times the crime rate in the USA so much for civilized you called them civilized i didn’t

  • johnnyu

    between just Germany and Britain only….. they surpasses the crime rate of the united states including Alaska for there size of area if you took all of the European or civilized countries it would be 10 times the crime rate in the USA so much for civilized you called them civilized i didn’t

  • johnnyu

    between just Germany and Britain only….. they surpasses the crime rate of the united states including Alaska for there size of area if you took all of the European or civilized countries it would be 10 times the crime rate in the USA so much for civilized you called them civilized i didn’t

  • Alex M

    “between just Germany and Britain only….. they surpasses the crime rate of the united states including Alaska for there size of area”

    This is nonsense. The crime rates I quoted are population adjusted. The homicide rate in the US, population-adjusted, is thirty to forty times that of the UK. In absolute numbers, it’s higher still.

  • Alex M

    “between just Germany and Britain only….. they surpasses the crime rate of the united states including Alaska for there size of area”

    This is nonsense. The crime rates I quoted are population adjusted. The homicide rate in the US, population-adjusted, is thirty to forty times that of the UK. In absolute numbers, it’s higher still.

  • Alex M

    “between just Germany and Britain only….. they surpasses the crime rate of the united states including Alaska for there size of area”

    This is nonsense. The crime rates I quoted are population adjusted. The homicide rate in the US, population-adjusted, is thirty to forty times that of the UK. In absolute numbers, it’s higher still.

  • johnnyu

    i have the facts on my side look up crime rate not murder rate
    Twelve per cent of London’s men are black. But 54 per cent of the street crimes committed by men in London, along with 46 per cent of the knife crimes and more than half of the gun crimes, are thought by the Metropolitan Police to have been committed by black men. To reduce gun violence, we must focus on the people who commit gun crimes, not on the law abiding.

    Around the world, wherever people of African descent are found in appreciable numbers, crime rates tend to be high. Various arguments have been used to explain the high rates of black crime within and around African populations, but the explanation is likely to involve many different factors Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.

    When blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.

    Hispanics commit violent crimes at roughly three times the white rate, and Asians commit violent crimes at about one quarter the white rate.

    The single best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percentage of the population that is black and Hispanic. _Murder

    In 2010, African-Americans accounted for 76.2% of murder arrests and Hispanics accounted for 19.3% of murder arrests in Chicago. In other words, 95.5% of murder arrests in Chicago were African-American and Hispanic.
    Criminal Sexual Assault

    In 2010, African-Americans accounted for 65.7% of arrests for criminal sexual assault and Hispanics accounted for 27.7% of arrests for criminal sexual assault in Chicago. In other words, 93.4% of arrests for criminal sexual assault in Chicago were African-American and Hispanic.
    Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery. these are not law abiding citizens… we do not commit these crimes…… why do you want to take away guns from the law abiding citizen black and white and hispanic …….. so they can defend themselves from these animals

  • johnnyu

    i have the facts on my side look up crime rate not murder rate
    Twelve per cent of London’s men are black. But 54 per cent of the street crimes committed by men in London, along with 46 per cent of the knife crimes and more than half of the gun crimes, are thought by the Metropolitan Police to have been committed by black men. To reduce gun violence, we must focus on the people who commit gun crimes, not on the law abiding.

    Around the world, wherever people of African descent are found in appreciable numbers, crime rates tend to be high. Various arguments have been used to explain the high rates of black crime within and around African populations, but the explanation is likely to involve many different factors Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.

    When blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.

    Hispanics commit violent crimes at roughly three times the white rate, and Asians commit violent crimes at about one quarter the white rate.

    The single best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percentage of the population that is black and Hispanic. _Murder

    In 2010, African-Americans accounted for 76.2% of murder arrests and Hispanics accounted for 19.3% of murder arrests in Chicago. In other words, 95.5% of murder arrests in Chicago were African-American and Hispanic.
    Criminal Sexual Assault

    In 2010, African-Americans accounted for 65.7% of arrests for criminal sexual assault and Hispanics accounted for 27.7% of arrests for criminal sexual assault in Chicago. In other words, 93.4% of arrests for criminal sexual assault in Chicago were African-American and Hispanic.
    Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery. these are not law abiding citizens… we do not commit these crimes…… why do you want to take away guns from the law abiding citizen black and white and hispanic …….. so they can defend themselves from these animals

  • johnnyu

    i have the facts on my side look up crime rate not murder rate
    Twelve per cent of London’s men are black. But 54 per cent of the street crimes committed by men in London, along with 46 per cent of the knife crimes and more than half of the gun crimes, are thought by the Metropolitan Police to have been committed by black men. To reduce gun violence, we must focus on the people who commit gun crimes, not on the law abiding.

    Around the world, wherever people of African descent are found in appreciable numbers, crime rates tend to be high. Various arguments have been used to explain the high rates of black crime within and around African populations, but the explanation is likely to involve many different factors Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.

    When blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.

    Hispanics commit violent crimes at roughly three times the white rate, and Asians commit violent crimes at about one quarter the white rate.

    The single best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percentage of the population that is black and Hispanic. _Murder

    In 2010, African-Americans accounted for 76.2% of murder arrests and Hispanics accounted for 19.3% of murder arrests in Chicago. In other words, 95.5% of murder arrests in Chicago were African-American and Hispanic.
    Criminal Sexual Assault

    In 2010, African-Americans accounted for 65.7% of arrests for criminal sexual assault and Hispanics accounted for 27.7% of arrests for criminal sexual assault in Chicago. In other words, 93.4% of arrests for criminal sexual assault in Chicago were African-American and Hispanic.
    Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery. these are not law abiding citizens… we do not commit these crimes…… why do you want to take away guns from the law abiding citizen black and white and hispanic …….. so they can defend themselves from these animals

  • johnnyu

    i have the facts on my side look up crime rate not murder rate
    Twelve per cent of London’s men are black. But 54 per cent of the street crimes committed by men in London, along with 46 per cent of the knife crimes and more than half of the gun crimes, are thought by the Metropolitan Police to have been committed by black men. To reduce gun violence, we must focus on the people who commit gun crimes, not on the law abiding.

    Around the world, wherever people of African descent are found in appreciable numbers, crime rates tend to be high. Various arguments have been used to explain the high rates of black crime within and around African populations, but the explanation is likely to involve many different factors Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.

    When blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.

    Hispanics commit violent crimes at roughly three times the white rate, and Asians commit violent crimes at about one quarter the white rate.

    The single best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percentage of the population that is black and Hispanic. _Murder

    In 2010, African-Americans accounted for 76.2% of murder arrests and Hispanics accounted for 19.3% of murder arrests in Chicago. In other words, 95.5% of murder arrests in Chicago were African-American and Hispanic.
    Criminal Sexual Assault

    In 2010, African-Americans accounted for 65.7% of arrests for criminal sexual assault and Hispanics accounted for 27.7% of arrests for criminal sexual assault in Chicago. In other words, 93.4% of arrests for criminal sexual assault in Chicago were African-American and Hispanic.
    Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery. these are not law abiding citizens… we do not commit these crimes…… why do you want to take away guns from the law abiding citizen black and white and hispanic …….. so they can defend themselves from these animals

  • johnnyu

    World Top Ten Countries With Highest Reported Crime Rates CountryCrime Rate United States 11,877,218 United Kingdom 6,523,706 Germany 6,507,394 France 3,771,850 Russia 2,952,370 Japan 2,853,739 South Africa 2,683,849 Canada 2,516,918 Italy 2,231,550 India 1,764,630

    The crime-rates map shows the world top ten countries with the highest reported crime rate.This map tells us about the number of crimes that took place per 100,000 people.

    Data indicated on the map of countries with the highest reported crime rates is based on house hold surveys, hospital and insurance records, FIR recorded by police or by law enforcement agencies.

    Map of countries with the highest reported crime rates clearly indicates that countries of Europe and America are the least safe countries in the world. Asia even though not that economically sound is far safer as compared to the ten countries listed on this map United States with 11,877,218 is the most unsafe country in this list while India, with 1,764,630 is the safest.

  • johnnyu

    World Top Ten Countries With Highest Reported Crime Rates CountryCrime Rate United States 11,877,218 United Kingdom 6,523,706 Germany 6,507,394 France 3,771,850 Russia 2,952,370 Japan 2,853,739 South Africa 2,683,849 Canada 2,516,918 Italy 2,231,550 India 1,764,630

    The crime-rates map shows the world top ten countries with the highest reported crime rate.This map tells us about the number of crimes that took place per 100,000 people.

    Data indicated on the map of countries with the highest reported crime rates is based on house hold surveys, hospital and insurance records, FIR recorded by police or by law enforcement agencies.

    Map of countries with the highest reported crime rates clearly indicates that countries of Europe and America are the least safe countries in the world. Asia even though not that economically sound is far safer as compared to the ten countries listed on this map United States with 11,877,218 is the most unsafe country in this list while India, with 1,764,630 is the safest.

  • johnnyu

    World Top Ten Countries With Highest Reported Crime Rates CountryCrime Rate United States 11,877,218 United Kingdom 6,523,706 Germany 6,507,394 France 3,771,850 Russia 2,952,370 Japan 2,853,739 South Africa 2,683,849 Canada 2,516,918 Italy 2,231,550 India 1,764,630

    The crime-rates map shows the world top ten countries with the highest reported crime rate.This map tells us about the number of crimes that took place per 100,000 people.

    Data indicated on the map of countries with the highest reported crime rates is based on house hold surveys, hospital and insurance records, FIR recorded by police or by law enforcement agencies.

    Map of countries with the highest reported crime rates clearly indicates that countries of Europe and America are the least safe countries in the world. Asia even though not that economically sound is far safer as compared to the ten countries listed on this map United States with 11,877,218 is the most unsafe country in this list while India, with 1,764,630 is the safest.

  • Alex M

    This topic is about firearms. You are attempting to change the topic by introducing non-firearms statistics. Note also that the figures offered above are not directly comparable, because the definition of violent crime differs considerably in different jurisdictions here. The US threshold for violent crime is higher than that in European jurisdictions, meaning that the apparent rate of violent crime looks lower in the US. Between jurisdictions, however, the definition of a homicide is broadly equivalent and unambiguous, and in a topic on firearms lethality, that is the definition to use. I have dealt with this more fully in another reply on this topic.

  • Alex M

    This topic is about firearms. You are attempting to change the topic by introducing non-firearms statistics. Note also that the figures offered above are not directly comparable, because the definition of violent crime differs considerably in different jurisdictions here. The US threshold for violent crime is higher than that in European jurisdictions, meaning that the apparent rate of violent crime looks lower in the US. Between jurisdictions, however, the definition of a homicide is broadly equivalent and unambiguous, and in a topic on firearms lethality, that is the definition to use. I have dealt with this more fully in another reply on this topic.

  • Alex M

    This topic is about firearms. You are attempting to change the topic by introducing non-firearms statistics. Note also that the figures offered above are not directly comparable, because the definition of violent crime differs considerably in different jurisdictions here. The US threshold for violent crime is higher than that in European jurisdictions, meaning that the apparent rate of violent crime looks lower in the US. Between jurisdictions, however, the definition of a homicide is broadly equivalent and unambiguous, and in a topic on firearms lethality, that is the definition to use. I have dealt with this more fully in another reply on this topic.

  • Alex M

    This topic is about firearms. You are attempting to change the topic by introducing non-firearms statistics. Note also that the figures offered above are not directly comparable, because the definition of violent crime differs considerably in different jurisdictions here. The US threshold for violent crime is higher than that in European jurisdictions, meaning that the apparent rate of violent crime looks lower in the US. Between jurisdictions, however, the definition of a homicide is broadly equivalent and unambiguous, and in a topic on firearms lethality, that is the definition to use. I have dealt with this more fully in another reply on this topic.

  • Alex M

    “Twelve per cent of London’s men are black. But 54 per cent of the street crimes committed by men in London, along with 46 per cent of the knife crimes and more than half of the gun crimes, are thought by the Metropolitan Police to have been committed by black men.”

    In this piece, plagiarized and uncredited, from the British Daily Telegraph newspaper, you omitted the continuation Crime statistics have to be approached with extreme caution, because it is very easy to leap to conclusions which are not justified by the figures. These ones do not show that 54 per cent of London’s street crimes are committed by black men. They do not even show that 54 per of those convicted in court of street crime are black men. But they do indicate that in 54 per cent of street crimes where police catch their suspect, that suspect is black.

  • johnnyu

    There is no winning with you…….. ask for figures…. i give you them and you dismiss them ….there is no compromise…. my argument is the guns are not the problem people are the problem……. a gun cannot shoot by it self…it needs someone to shoot..it…. i gave you figures 13 per cent of USA population commit 85 % of crime in the USA you say get rid of guns….. i say get rid of people or their problems.. that will lessen gun crime i dont for the life of me… know why these people would stop killing just because they can’t acquire a gun…… look what a couple of box cutter did…. they killed more people then guns did in years .. 3000 dead in NYC hundreds in Washington..and in Pennsylvania hundreds you dont look to ban box cutters,, but …. NYc passed a law that the box cutter have to be behind the counter …. that didn’t help when a black girl went nuts in a NY subway and slashed three people with box cutter and it became the weapons of choice all the black girl gangs in NYC schools….. you look at the murder rate with a gun… i look at the murder rate as a whole ….if all the gun where taken away no doubt the murder rate would go down but the same would happen if you did the same with knifes or baseball bats …if that was possible…. do you know.. in the old days kids in Texas and in the southern states would put their guns on the back of there pick up trucks and go to school…. no school shootings as a kid in the Bronx i would go to sears pick any gun on the rack and ammo was right there i could have killed everyone in the store…society has changed the guns have always been there …but giving rights to the mentally ill …was not . …cannot have people with severe mental illness wandering the streets not taking medication and you have to make it easier for a parent to commit these ill people.when they are dangerous… but that is stopped by ACLU….. if a person that wants to kill someone has plenty of options the kids used a bomb made out of pots and pans and some fireworks they did more damage than any gun could have …in columbine they had two propane canisters set to blow to start the carnage ..if that would have gone off you would not be talking about guns ..whats funny about the wonderful press that you swear tells the truth… Holmes AR 15 ..jammed after a coupled of rounds because those 100 AR magazine are very unreliable….. the shotgun caused most of the damage……… vice president biden keeps telling the people buy a shotgun for defence when that was the gun that did the most damage…. and the not AR15… but we must ban Ar15s….. Boston terrorist could have and just put the bombs in a movie theater mall shopping center trash can .. guns are not the problem we should look at…. parenting… its gone….. the government are the new parents they supply the nourishment… food stamps ..the shelter… free housing free phone and the failed education systems that give s diploma’s to people that cant read. and they are mostly black and Spanish, they..take no effort to get these people employed..they are just democratic voting block…. as long as they continue to suck on the government nipple they are trapped in this cycle of welfare crack… then they tell you dont need weapons we will protect you…. look how good your life is with us in control .. as a child i had a black friend he had a father that went to work and a mother that stayed at home and and raised his little brother they believed in god and had hope …they where no different then my family who were poor… what is different today no hope the politician uses them.. they dont look into the faces of these people…. in fear that they would take arms…..if they really knew what was happening to them….. when the truth break through watch out !!!…… ” why …the government would scream “…we gave you everything….. but just like the slaves of old… you gave them no hope to leave the new welfare plantation …. and when they realize what you have done to them and there families….. once the big lie is exposed ….and it will happen.. that’s when they send these phonies titled… so call reverends Jackson and the murder sharpton……. martin Luther king would be sick if he saw the what has happened to black race today ….this was not his dream….. that carpetbagger in the white house has done nothing for them … just gave them some false pride in themselves… and send more free food and tells you that you dont have to work for welfare crack.. no more ..just stay on the welfare…plantation just vote for me and my buddy’s… i will be your god… i give food i give you shelter… i give you money… isn’t that what god said he would do for us.. as long as you seek..you shall find . Jesus said that the flowers in the field dont toil the birds in the sky are feed..the needs of all things are given…. and god loves you more than all these things he give you the…world….you do not see that belief in today’s black families…. its is sad,,,,, the guns give people like these.. the ability to rise up against this reverse Tyranny.. this the very reason the bill of rights exists god given rights. so one day they can truly be free…this secular government has rip the soul from these people.. its not the guns… its the lack of morals and the belief God that will stop the gun crime you are offering a bandaid i want to stop the bleeding. lets agree to disagree

  • johnnyu

    There is no winning with you…….. ask for figures…. i give you them and you dismiss them ….there is no compromise…. my argument is the guns are not the problem people are the problem……. a gun cannot shoot by it self…it needs someone to shoot..it…. i gave you figures 13 per cent of USA population commit 85 % of crime in the USA you say get rid of guns….. i say get rid of people or their problems.. that will lessen gun crime i dont for the life of me… know why these people would stop killing just because they can’t acquire a gun…… look what a couple of box cutter did…. they killed more people then guns did in years .. 3000 dead in NYC hundreds in Washington..and in Pennsylvania hundreds you dont look to ban box cutters,, but …. NYc passed a law that the box cutter have to be behind the counter …. that didn’t help when a black girl went nuts in a NY subway and slashed three people with box cutter and it became the weapons of choice all the black girl gangs in NYC schools….. you look at the murder rate with a gun… i look at the murder rate as a whole ….if all the gun where taken away no doubt the murder rate would go down but the same would happen if you did the same with knifes or baseball bats …if that was possible…. do you know.. in the old days kids in Texas and in the southern states would put their guns on the back of there pick up trucks and go to school…. no school shootings as a kid in the Bronx i would go to sears pick any gun on the rack and ammo was right there i could have killed everyone in the store…society has changed the guns have always been there …but giving rights to the mentally ill …was not . …cannot have people with severe mental illness wandering the streets not taking medication and you have to make it easier for a parent to commit these ill people.when they are dangerous… but that is stopped by ACLU….. if a person that wants to kill someone has plenty of options the kids used a bomb made out of pots and pans and some fireworks they did more damage than any gun could have …in columbine they had two propane canisters set to blow to start the carnage ..if that would have gone off you would not be talking about guns ..whats funny about the wonderful press that you swear tells the truth… Holmes AR 15 ..jammed after a coupled of rounds because those 100 AR magazine are very unreliable….. the shotgun caused most of the damage……… vice president biden keeps telling the people buy a shotgun for defence when that was the gun that did the most damage…. and the not AR15… but we must ban Ar15s….. Boston terrorist could have and just put the bombs in a movie theater mall shopping center trash can .. guns are not the problem we should look at…. parenting… its gone….. the government are the new parents they supply the nourishment… food stamps ..the shelter… free housing free phone and the failed education systems that give s diploma’s to people that cant read. and they are mostly black and Spanish, they..take no effort to get these people employed..they are just democratic voting block…. as long as they continue to suck on the government nipple they are trapped in this cycle of welfare crack… then they tell you dont need weapons we will protect you…. look how good your life is with us in control .. as a child i had a black friend he had a father that went to work and a mother that stayed at home and and raised his little brother they believed in god and had hope …they where no different then my family who were poor… what is different today no hope the politician uses them.. they dont look into the faces of these people…. in fear that they would take arms…..if they really knew what was happening to them….. when the truth break through watch out !!!…… ” why …the government would scream “…we gave you everything….. but just like the slaves of old… you gave them no hope to leave the new welfare plantation …. and when they realize what you have done to them and there families….. once the big lie is exposed ….and it will happen.. that’s when they send these phonies titled… so call reverends Jackson and the murder sharpton……. martin Luther king would be sick if he saw the what has happened to black race today ….this was not his dream….. that carpetbagger in the white house has done nothing for them … just gave them some false pride in themselves… and send more free food and tells you that you dont have to work for welfare crack.. no more ..just stay on the welfare…plantation just vote for me and my buddy’s… i will be your god… i give food i give you shelter… i give you money… isn’t that what god said he would do for us.. as long as you seek..you shall find . Jesus said that the flowers in the field dont toil the birds in the sky are feed..the needs of all things are given…. and god loves you more than all these things he give you the…world….you do not see that belief in today’s black families…. its is sad,,,,, the guns give people like these.. the ability to rise up against this reverse Tyranny.. this the very reason the bill of rights exists god given rights. so one day they can truly be free…this secular government has rip the soul from these people.. its not the guns… its the lack of morals and the belief God that will stop the gun crime you are offering a bandaid i want to stop the bleeding. lets agree to disagree

  • johnnyu

    There is no winning with you…….. ask for figures…. i give you them and you dismiss them ….there is no compromise…. my argument is the guns are not the problem people are the problem……. a gun cannot shoot by it self…it needs someone to shoot..it…. i gave you figures 13 per cent of USA population commit 85 % of crime in the USA you say get rid of guns….. i say get rid of people or their problems.. that will lessen gun crime i dont for the life of me… know why these people would stop killing just because they can’t acquire a gun…… look what a couple of box cutter did…. they killed more people then guns did in years .. 3000 dead in NYC hundreds in Washington..and in Pennsylvania hundreds you dont look to ban box cutters,, but …. NYc passed a law that the box cutter have to be behind the counter …. that didn’t help when a black girl went nuts in a NY subway and slashed three people with box cutter and it became the weapons of choice all the black girl gangs in NYC schools….. you look at the murder rate with a gun… i look at the murder rate as a whole ….if all the gun where taken away no doubt the murder rate would go down but the same would happen if you did the same with knifes or baseball bats …if that was possible…. do you know.. in the old days kids in Texas and in the southern states would put their guns on the back of there pick up trucks and go to school…. no school shootings as a kid in the Bronx i would go to sears pick any gun on the rack and ammo was right there i could have killed everyone in the store…society has changed the guns have always been there …but giving rights to the mentally ill …was not . …cannot have people with severe mental illness wandering the streets not taking medication and you have to make it easier for a parent to commit these ill people.when they are dangerous… but that is stopped by ACLU….. if a person that wants to kill someone has plenty of options the kids used a bomb made out of pots and pans and some fireworks they did more damage than any gun could have …in columbine they had two propane canisters set to blow to start the carnage ..if that would have gone off you would not be talking about guns ..whats funny about the wonderful press that you swear tells the truth… Holmes AR 15 ..jammed after a coupled of rounds because those 100 AR magazine are very unreliable….. the shotgun caused most of the damage……… vice president biden keeps telling the people buy a shotgun for defence when that was the gun that did the most damage…. and the not AR15… but we must ban Ar15s….. Boston terrorist could have and just put the bombs in a movie theater mall shopping center trash can .. guns are not the problem we should look at…. parenting… its gone….. the government are the new parents they supply the nourishment… food stamps ..the shelter… free housing free phone and the failed education systems that give s diploma’s to people that cant read. and they are mostly black and Spanish, they..take no effort to get these people employed..they are just democratic voting block…. as long as they continue to suck on the government nipple they are trapped in this cycle of welfare crack… then they tell you dont need weapons we will protect you…. look how good your life is with us in control .. as a child i had a black friend he had a father that went to work and a mother that stayed at home and and raised his little brother they believed in god and had hope …they where no different then my family who were poor… what is different today no hope the politician uses them.. they dont look into the faces of these people…. in fear that they would take arms…..if they really knew what was happening to them….. when the truth break through watch out !!!…… ” why …the government would scream “…we gave you everything….. but just like the slaves of old… you gave them no hope to leave the new welfare plantation …. and when they realize what you have done to them and there families….. once the big lie is exposed ….and it will happen.. that’s when they send these phonies titled… so call reverends Jackson and the murder sharpton……. martin Luther king would be sick if he saw the what has happened to black race today ….this was not his dream….. that carpetbagger in the white house has done nothing for them … just gave them some false pride in themselves… and send more free food and tells you that you dont have to work for welfare crack.. no more ..just stay on the welfare…plantation just vote for me and my buddy’s… i will be your god… i give food i give you shelter… i give you money… isn’t that what god said he would do for us.. as long as you seek..you shall find . Jesus said that the flowers in the field dont toil the birds in the sky are feed..the needs of all things are given…. and god loves you more than all these things he give you the…world….you do not see that belief in today’s black families…. its is sad,,,,, the guns give people like these.. the ability to rise up against this reverse Tyranny.. this the very reason the bill of rights exists god given rights. so one day they can truly be free…this secular government has rip the soul from these people.. its not the guns… its the lack of morals and the belief God that will stop the gun crime you are offering a bandaid i want to stop the bleeding. lets agree to disagree

  • Alex M

    “There is no winning with you…….. ask for figures…. i give you them and you dismiss them”

    I check them, that’s the thing. I always check things out. When you give figures, they are either wrong or out of context, or hyperbolic inventions.

    “look what a couple of box cutter did…. they killed more people then guns did in years .. 3000 dead in NYC”

    This is an example. It doesn’t take guns ‘years to kill that many’. It takes just over a month. There is a ‘Twin Towers’ death toll from guns every five weeks in the US.

    “my argument is the guns are not the problem people are the problem”

    This is trivially true. However, if it’s people who kill people, and not guns that kill people, then why is it that when people kill, they overwhelmingly choose guns? If it is true that only the intent is what matters, then it should make no difference what weapon was used, and there should be about as many instances where knives, clubs, and so on, are used in homicides. There are, after all, more knives than guns.

    If you can answer that question truthfully, you are on the way to recognizing what the problem really is.

  • Alex M

    “There is no winning with you…….. ask for figures…. i give you them and you dismiss them”

    I check them, that’s the thing. I always check things out. When you give figures, they are either wrong or out of context, or hyperbolic inventions.

    “look what a couple of box cutter did…. they killed more people then guns did in years .. 3000 dead in NYC”

    This is an example. It doesn’t take guns ‘years to kill that many’. It takes just over a month. There is a ‘Twin Towers’ death toll from guns every five weeks in the US.

    “my argument is the guns are not the problem people are the problem”

    This is trivially true. However, if it’s people who kill people, and not guns that kill people, then why is it that when people kill, they overwhelmingly choose guns? If it is true that only the intent is what matters, then it should make no difference what weapon was used, and there should be about as many instances where knives, clubs, and so on, are used in homicides. There are, after all, more knives than guns.

    If you can answer that question truthfully, you are on the way to recognizing what the problem really is.

  • Alex M

    “There is no winning with you…….. ask for figures…. i give you them and you dismiss them”

    I check them, that’s the thing. I always check things out. When you give figures, they are either wrong or out of context, or hyperbolic inventions.

    “look what a couple of box cutter did…. they killed more people then guns did in years .. 3000 dead in NYC”

    This is an example. It doesn’t take guns ‘years to kill that many’. It takes just over a month. There is a ‘Twin Towers’ death toll from guns every five weeks in the US.

    “my argument is the guns are not the problem people are the problem”

    This is trivially true. However, if it’s people who kill people, and not guns that kill people, then why is it that when people kill, they overwhelmingly choose guns? If it is true that only the intent is what matters, then it should make no difference what weapon was used, and there should be about as many instances where knives, clubs, and so on, are used in homicides. There are, after all, more knives than guns.

    If you can answer that question truthfully, you are on the way to recognizing what the problem really is.

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