Why Some Christians’ Kids Blow Off God – and Why Mine Didn’t

I love it when Christian parents whose kids haven’t even yet made it out of the nest with their faith seriously tried, tested and found true, lecture others about “how to raise godly kids”.

Every time I see one of these dandies come forth, hawking their wisdom that’s yet to be seriously proven in the Asplundh of the real world, I feel like saying, “Uh … you might wanna just keep doing R&D and dial back a skooch with your ‘How To’s’ until Dinky has made it out of 6th grade without getting a nipple ring and a pentagram tattooed on his forehead.”

Personally, I’d let life chew on my kids a tad and see how they fare before you come out with your five-point plan.

Listening to parents who’s child raising principles have yet to be verified is like listening to a single person telling a married couple with four kids, a half-million dollar mortgage and a live-in aunt with a mustache how to juggle the complexities of managing a big family. Sure, I might listen politely, but inwardly I’m thinking, “Really? C’mon, really?”

Being blessed with two girls who’re out of the house and now, in their 20’s, who have a real, living, vital, unfeigned faith that’s been road-tested at levels that would make most mature adults wince, I think I have a little credence when it comes to raising kids.

In no particular order, here’s some chicken scratches regarding how my wife and I did a decent, God-graced job with our indomitable lasses:

1. My wife and I never pretended to be perfect or expected them to pretend to be fabulous all the time. We lived real lives in front of our kids. Not phony, duplicitous, grin until your damn teeth are dried Stepford existences of polished and pretentious perfection. When I screwed up, and it was often, I owned it. I didn’t blame the devil or others for my faux pas.

They understood that even though their folks love God, we were not God. We let them know we needed grace and when they derailed we gave them grace. Ask ‘em and they’ll tell you that the life we live in secret matches our public life in all of its good, bad and ugliness. If you want your kids to bail on their faith, then be a duplicitous dipstick and a graceless hack and they’ll dump your faith like a bad habit. Remember, the gospel is primarily caught, not taught.

2. My wife and I portrayed Jesus as a grand and glorious God and not some mean and nasty, old, petulant Deity who measures dress hems and hates beer. A lot of kids rebel against God not because they hate him but because they hate the way their parents have painted him as a small and petty cosmic killjoy. If you want to guarantee your kids will walk away from the faith, just make it an obnoxiously narrow, fastidiously legalistic, life-sucking, skull-numbing guilt trip. Personally, I think people who make God and the gospel boring and miserable should be first to be tossed into the lake of fire. How someone can take the greatest story ever told and make it suck is both beyond me and unforgivable.

3. Christianity to us equated adventure. Y’know, when I read the Bible I don’t get that the characters it lauds loathed the path they trod but actually delighted in it and found it exceedingly and abundantly beyond all they could ask or imagine; and Jonesed for it, versus the crap life of separation from the life of God.

My wife and I showcased a Christianity that was rich with the unknown, adventure, risk and reward. Quite frankly, what they saw and what we touted to them was something that was pretty sweet, and only an idiot would want to rebel against it. And they’re not idiots.

4. We never isolated ourselves. Our friends were everyone. Our house over the years looked like a Star Wars bar scene of rock stars, diplomats, Fox News contributors, strippers, New York Times best-selling authors, the gay, the straight, the successful, the homeless, AIDS victims, doctors and the demented of every imaginable stripe. Our house was wide open to those who were wide open to Him. Please don’t dismiss this little ditty.

5. When I was a pastor, I made certain that I wasn’t married to the church. I never bought into this crap that my church came before my family. Man of God, if you dump your family for “ministry” they’ll return the favor later on in life and dump you and the “God” who took their parents away from them in their formative years. If you don’t believe me then just plow on and see what happens.

6. Lastly, our Christianity wasn’t anti-intellectual. My kids grew up on Clive Staple’s musings, Os Guinness’s and Tolkien’s tomes, philosophy and philosophers; and I often brought them to seminary with me where they got to hear, up close and personal, Dr. R.C. Sproul, Dr. D. James Kennedy and other esteemed theologians who didn’t have three teeth and an IQ of 50.

That’s what we did, folks, and it worked.

Our kids are our greatest joy. It hasn’t been easy, but then again, so what? That’s life. It’s ‘spose to be messy. However, now, as young alpha females conquering the planet, their faith, their tenacity, their successes, their work ethic and their love for God and this country beats anything this world has ever offered this redneck; and for this we’re forever grateful.

I pray God blesses you and yours like he has my wife and me.

About the author: Doug Giles

Doug Giles is the Big Dawg at ClashDaily.com and the Co-Owner of The Safari Cigar Company. Follow him on Facebook and Twitter. And check out his new book, Rise, Kill and Eat: A Theology of Hunting from Genesis to Revelation.

View all articles by Doug Giles
  • RhondaOR

    Ridiculous advice. From a ridiculous man. Kids should not be taught religion. Let them decide for themselves when they grow up.

    • John Bohler

      Truth is Truth, if you believe Christianity is the one true religion the greatest crime a parent could do to their kid, as Christians, is not to bring God early in their lives, fail to show them the straight and narrow, and have them running the risk of falling into eternal flame.

      Course chances are you’re an atheist so you probably rolled your eyes at reading that. But that’s my $0.02 :P

      • dantalbot

        An atheist’s view of the universe is not even worth considering…they take delight in concluding that life is purposeless. What a mental derrangement! There was a song containing the words “Little stars, big stars….and we’re lost in the stars”. Such lonesomeness results from atheism that it should be rightly called insanity.

    • futurelife

      No one, I mean no one can make a choice if they don’t have the education from youth to decide trust over fiction, or lies in many cases.

    • Mark K

      Ridiculous? Please explain in detail. How can an adult “choose” if they are not taught what God and religion is when they are young? Why not let the child choose the language that he or she will speak, without teaching language.

      • dantalbot

        Exactly. So why even bother to toilet train them? That should result in the kid finding his own style of behavior, wouldn’t it?

    • Bill Johnson

      “Kids should not be taught,” is what you are saying. Really, a parent who does not teach his children is not being a parent. If parents don’t “teach” their kids about religion (and everything else) someone else will. And that “someone else” will not love them the way their parents do, and probably won’t love them at all.
      Do you teach you kids to wash, to ear well, to try to live healthy? Why or why not. Hopefully, you do because you love them.

    • gtm615

      This is the most foolish advice I have ever heard. How can you ever expect a child, teen, etc. to make an intelligent choice between that which he hasn’t been taught and that which he has been taught.

      • dantalbot

        DITTO !!!

    • WesTexan

      Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it. —Proverbs 22:6

      You don’t get it on any level. Children should be “trained” or taught—but not in religion. Religion is man’s effort to reach (or become) god, e.g., the Tower of Babel. Jesus is not a religion; He is a living person, “the mighty God, the Eternal Father and the Prince of Peace.” That’s not religion.

      My children aren’t animals to be let loose on the world to see how they come out in the end. Proverbs 22:6 is God’s way—as opposed to your loose musings.

      • dantalbot

        Amen – well said.

    • paulie2

      I guess parents should also let their kids “choose” what to eat – so instead of making them eat their veggies – let them have a can of coke and a box or Orios for dinner? That’s what my kids would have ‘chosen.” Or maybelet them choose what time to go to bed, or wether or not to put the fork in the electrical outlet? How about let them choose wether or not to go to school? That should be a choice then too.
      You sound like a real dumb A$$.

      • dantalbot

        Unfortunately, he is not the only a$$ with that viewpoint, society is replete with parents who want to have the birds and bees discussion with their kids, but avoid like the plague any discussion of the Bible’s truths.

    • paulie2

      *whether. Sorry I have 2 broken fingers so my typing is way off – lots of mistakes.

    • Katie510

      Your statement makes no sense. Kids should be introduced to Jesus at an early age just like teaching the stove is “hot”. If you do not learn when you are young how is it even possible to make a decision when you grow up. C’mon…think about it. If they learn about Jesus young and decide to go in a different direction it is their choice. After all God gave us free will….

    • herdzcatz

      Yeah, I agree with your last sentence–if raised in Muslim homes. :-)

    • dantalbot

      Kids should not be forced religion, but what do you mean by not teaching them? Do you mean avoidance of the subject? Children learn as much from what you avoid as a topic as they do from engagement. Christ said if you are ashamed to align yourself with him in public, he will return the “favor” when you stand before God. Not planting seeds in a vacant lot just results in weeds.

  • LBB4God

    That is FANTASTIC advice. I blew off God for a long time and I did things and accepted things that were not approved by God. I was taught at an early age about Jesus and through life my mother has prayed for me. 2 years ago I came to God and asked him back into my life and wanted out of the messy life I had made for myself. Here I am today married to a wonderful man and my life is all about gratitude to God because he does hear our prayers and does want to be apart of our lives. You have no idea what a wonderful impact my mother has made on my life for introducing me to God at an early age. God Is beyond GOOD and he does love every single one of us.

  • 4lifeandfreedom

    “Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it.”
    Not an adage, but in Proverbs.
    But, just a point: Is it “who’s” or “whose” child raising principles?
    WWJD when he hears the “Christian” use vulgarities or His Name in vain? WWJD when he sees “Christians” partaking of the beer, wine scenario at home or in public?
    WWJD when confronted with the “Christian” at the casinos or buying the lottery tickets, or saying “I am against the killing of the unborn, except in cases of rape and incest?” WWJD today, when “Christians” are trying to justify all of the above?

    • paulie2

      Um, I’m with you on most of your points but the beer and wine one, not so much. The Bible says “drunkiness” is to be avoided. Remember JESUS turned the water into WINE for the masses. He served wine at the last supper. He drakn wine when he visited Mary and Martha. He drank wine when he was hanging with the tax collectors to try to get them to see their sin. Having a glass of wine or a beer is not only not discouraged – wine is mentioned many times in the bible — even on one occasion they had to bring more because the first batch was “sour.”
      Lottery tickets or going to a casino — that depend on if it’s a once in a while thing, just for fun OR if it’s an addiction. I don’t thing Jesus would have an issue with someone going to a casino once a year to have a little fun. He loved fun.

      • Name

        one of the main rreasons wine was so common was that it was haard to get fresh water in some place, and wine was safe to drink and everywhere making it easier, people didnt drink it as much to get drunk but to have a drink of something, unless it was a party they they got piss drunk… for 7 days is it just me or does it seem like they had more fun than we do, we look at what we cant or shouldnt do, not what we can do, and that is a huge problem, we limit ourselves and look on the negivite side, but as we live our lives the glass can also be half full and not empty

      • Fred

        Paul advises against drunkenness in the same sentence with warnings
        against orgies and idolatry (which we know are sin). Drunkenness is not
        a matter of having an alcoholic drink as much as it is a lifestyle of
        using and depending on alcohol. Sort of like the difference between sin
        and sinfulness. There is difference between having committed a sin
        and living a life of intentional sin (sinfulness). Likewise the
        difference between eating and the sin of gluttony. Jesus was accused of
        being a glutton and a drunkard (apparently because of the company he
        sometimes kept.) And don’t forget Jesus said “What goes into someone’s mouth
        does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what
        defiles them …” (Something for us posters to keep in mind?)

    • http://davidmschell.com David M Schell

      “Train up a child” didn’t work so well for my dad.
      Even though it was in Proverbs. He no longer reads my blog because it upsets him so.

      WWJD when he hears the Christian use vulgarities? Probably nothing. He hung out with professional fishermen.

      WWJD when he hears Christians take his name in vain? Probably be annoyed that they’re calling themselves Christians and not listening to him. I don’t think Jesus gets mad when people say his name when they get hurt. Maybe it’s a prayer. Maybe Jesus likes prayer.

      WWJD when he sees Christians partaking of “the beer” or wine? Probably make more of it, like he did in Cana. And probably the good stuff – the stuff people hand out at the beginning of the party. They save the yucky stuff for when everybody’s too plastered from the good stuff to tell the difference.

      WWJD when confronted with the Christian at the casinos or buying the lottery tickets? Probably help them get a winning number. Or warn them about greed.

      WWJD when confronted with someone who wants an abortion who was raped? Probably not condemn them, because that wasn’t Jesus’ thing. Though he might have some harsh words for the people who *are* condemning them.

      WWJD when Christians are trying to justify all of the above? That’s probably a case-by-case basis.

    • dantalbot

      The worst foul language is the use of the Lord’s name as a swear. The “f-bomb” cannot match or even come close to the odiousness of tolerating (or promoting) the use of God’s name as punctuation for speech as in “God damn” or “Jesus Christ” or “for Christ’s sakes”. Hollywood sees no reason to demote a movie to less than PG rating if God’s name is misused, but does demote the rating if f-bombs occur. I find that most puuzzling, despicable, and a terrible sign of the times we are living in. I have often made numereous derogatory references to the ancestry of an inamimate object (example: when hitting my thumb with a hammer). I hope God overlooks those stumbles.

  • yaki534

    The problem is that our wonderful education system is spewing Satin’s hatred. And our media magnifies it.

    • dantalbot

      Young Robert A Schuler put it this way (which was briliant): if you do not bring up the gospel to your kids at the dinner table (preferring to let them go their own way) it is like failing to plant seeds in a vacant lot: all you get is weeds.

  • futurelife

    I did everything a mom could do in bring up my kids in Church and Bible study and yet, my daughter married someone who didn’t like me and lost her in the end. I even gave money to them for their first home and second home and today, I lost, money and daughter. I feel it is because I wasn’t married and now have no money left, even for myself. UGH So, training them in the right way won’t mean they will stay true to anything if “love” comes in from the other side of material gains.

    • LindsB

      It is not too late for your daughter and you. You keep up the faith in God and watch how it will change the dynamics. I am 34 hers old and was lost from 17 till 2 years ago. This is an opportunity for you to strengthen your relationship with God. I pray God changes both your lives in a blessed way. It may be a drastic change, but lean on God at all times.

      • Winston

        There are no guarantees in life. Just look at King David and his brood. Even the great and wise (God given wosdom) Soloman failed miserably in the end. Although our children carry our DNA, it does not mean we or they are perfect. But we must be the light in a darkened room at all times and when we fail we must confess and repent. God is ultimately on charge, not us.

        • dantalbot

          As the article re-states, the Bible says we should bring up children in the way they should go, NOT the way they WOULD go.

    • Colleen Phillips

      I know exactly what you mean -

  • John Julian

    Amen!

  • ForrestHorn

    Doug, sounds like you did parenting with your eyes wide open. God blessed us with five, two from my ex-wife’s first marriage and two from our marriage. We made them think for themselves and we made certain that their “teachers” in the Church were thoroughly grounded in the Lord. Then we just prayed, and turned them over to Him. Only one strayed from the faith, but seems to be slowly coming back. Now I have ten grandchildren who are being raised in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, and one tiny great-grandson who is surrounded by love and prayed for daily. God is good. Life is good, and when I go Home I’ll point at the Christians I helped raise and say, “See Lord, at least I did something right!” :D

    • Russell

      You did much more than most, amen brother !

      • ForrestHorn

        Thank you. I honestly did my best. Made a few mistakes, but the Lord guides the steps of those He declares righteous. I will eternally thank Him, not only for my own salvation, but for His reproof and correction. :)

  • Winston

    The author sounds more of a religious humanist than a Biblical Christian.

  • doris lott

    Thank you sincerely, so much.

  • David Graves

    Thank you for sharing. I agree completely.

  • Guest

    proves my point..Religion is for fools ..Education can do you guys some good

    • john

      What ‘religion”?Jesus is not a ‘religion” He fought against the religious phony’s of his day,Our rightous ness is only through his shed blood,nothing religious that we “do”makes us good or right with God.Get off the all religion is for fools stuff.The Bible says ‘A fool says in his heart there is no God” And that “God has no pleasure in a fool”

    • dantalbot

      “Education” of the kind that produced a Medical Doctor and Psychiatrist for the U.S. military named Nidal Hasan? Education will not subdue the savage (that Fort Hood shooter had all the scholastic achievement one could have). The Bible says the heart is desperately wicked; who can know it? Time after time we see examples. I am highly educated, but my education does not civilize me or anyone else. Only God’s message can do that, not the message of Islam or humanism or secularism or atheism. Wise up.

  • Jim Schafer

    in Proverbs 22: 6, Solomon discusses the principle of training up a child in healthy and that will lead the children in a Biblical manner. it states: “Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it.” Also I want to remind the Biblical principle of reaping what one sows. so I state that if the parent wants their
    child(ren) to have an appropriate and tolerable adulthood, I suggest that the parent get their life(ves) in the way that the parent wants their child(ren) to be in adulthood. unless they want the child(ren) to have a different attitude toward others and generally, in life, I must say that it will be impossible, without another teacher or possibly a therapist.

    • DieHardPatriot

      ALL children learn from what they see, read and hear…mostly from their parents. If those parents are saying one thing and they see another image…they are going to be seen them…as “you do as we say not what we do”. Parents have a huge responsibility to set the example not just for their children but all those around them as to what they do and say…AND treat others. It’s the City on a hill that cannot be hid thing…or the light under a bushel basket. My church starts kids out by teaching through the use of coloring books and other visuals where is fun for the young kids and as they get a little older they move it up a notch with objects and pictures,then songs that the kids quickly learn from memory on their own, etc. AND the teachers are loving parents themselves and really show their love for the kids…then it is the parent’s responsibility to follow through at home during the week…and above all being patient and nurturing. Once or twice thee kids put on a real great program for all to enjoy and they are fantastic. I wasn’t that luck as a child. My parents hardly ever took me to church and it was the same for the rest of my life until I discovered the church I now attend to regularly and serve in and love every minute of it. Service to others is a great feeling! Too bad this immoral bunch of Sodomites and murderous Communists do not get God…but if they refuse to repent God will get them!…ONE DAY!

      • Colleen Phillips

        Uh Huh – did all that. Set the example, tried to be consistent. Made the Bible and Jesus exciting and enjoyable with all sorts of visual aids and books, at home as well as at church. Had wonderful results until they turned 12 or 13. Any other ideas? Parental influence isn’t anywhere near as important as you think. Other environmental factors have way more impact than the parents or the home, and research bears that out.

    • Colleen Phillips

      This would be great if it were true. Been there, done that, and much much more. I trained up 3 children in the way they should go, and they all departed from it. And their dad and I most definitely reaped all kinds of hell that we most definitely did not sow.

      • Jim Schafer

        it is our responsibility as parents to “plant the seed and then let God(Jesus Christ) do the rest—it is our job after they have left the nest to
        pray for them daily, and then leave them in His hands. . . and this is the most tough. I have seen many child, long after they have left the nest, come to Christ. all we can do is Plant and water with prayer and then leave the Harvest to the Lord.

  • bluuplanet

    “Asplundh”???
    (2nd sentence)

    • wiggumc1

      Asplundh is a vegetation management company. One of the products they manufacture is a tree chipper.

      • bluuplanet

        Yep. They’ve got all sorts of equipment. Cherry-picker boom trucks and stump grinders and chippers. I didn’t know they made them (or sold them). They certainly USE them and I assumed they bought equipment from various suppliers and covered them with their black on orange logos.
        The word doesn’t work well in the same way as “Xerox” might work as a replacement for the more generic “photocopy machine”

  • Nadine Anderton

    Just be sure you are not “creating God in [your] own image” rather than knowing who God is and following His commandments. It sounds as though if you don’t like what he says, you attribute it to meanness and change it so something more to your liking. As long as what you are portraying is moral and good, that’s great, but I agree with Winston that it sounds like you are talking more like a religious humanist than a Biblical Christian!

  • BlueViolets

    When I was raising my children there was a nice saying about parents, children and church going…Bring your children to church, don’t take them. I took that to heart and while maybe I wasn’t the perfect parent (who is?), my children have grown into adults that I am proud of.

  • ImTheNana

    “Personally, I think people who make God and the gospel boring and miserable should be first to be tossed into the lake of fire. How someone can take the greatest story ever told and make it suck is both beyond me and unforgivable.”

    I would love to pass on this article, as I think it makes a lot of really fantastic observations and important points. However, the above two sentences ruin that for me. Many people come from overly legalistic churches, and have taught their kids what they learned. Even if you meant this to be a strong admonishment against legalism, it comes across as the very legalism you are fighting. Unforgivable? Lake of Fire? Why not teach those legalists why what they learned is wrong, rather than condemning them for it, when they might not know any better?

    • Desertcatn

      Many of them wouldn’t listen anyway.

      • ImTheNana

        Perhaps, but that is a separate issue, one of arrogance and pride. If even one could be saved, it would be worth the effort, rather than damning them all sweepingly, or by words that turn them off from an otherwise excellent article.

  • Richard Diaz, Sr.

    Children should be taught the Bible as soon as they are old enough to understand but, it must be done in such a way as to make them want to make them eager to learn more, in other words, it must be done in fun so they will be relaxed. It cannot be done in a brutal tyrannical way where they would shun their lessons. It cannot be forced I think this is what happens to many young people whose parents are ministers and then when they leave home, they go nuts partying and doing things they should not as an act of rebellion and sadly, many of them completely get away from God permanently.

  • Saltporkdoc

    God truly blessed me and my now deceased wife. We adopted a physically handicapped daughter (both of us had extensive medical experience and we knew having a biologic child brought no guarantee of health), then 5 yrs later He graced us with a biologic son. Even with the “special needs’ efforts and energy our daughter required, our parenting experience was simple. We were devastated when God called our daughter to be His newest angel 2 months before her 11th birthday, but rejoiced that she could now walk without braces and move about without a wheelchair.
    Our son has grown to be a reponsible man, community and youth oriented, honest and upright.I could not be prouder, nor love him more.
    I make sure he hears me tell people that God knew what he was doing when he gave me such a son to raise as He knew I was going to need all the help I could get at being a father. He knows I love him and am proud of the man he has become despite me.
    His mother and I used the principles outlined above. I endorse them heartily. I would only add three more things to them: We never felt we were meant to be our children’s best friends; friends, yes, but parents first (often unpopularly so) and we supported each other in disciplining the children. Not that we agreed always with HOW we disciplined, but that discipline was needed. (We each had or theories what was effective and took responsibility for the offenses we witnessed. The other then supported that discipline even when we thought it might be ineffective.) The third thing was we allowed the kids to see us disagree then work through the disagreement so they could learn appropriate conflict resolution and interpersonal communication skills.

  • Jonathan

    So, I guess when we need guidance raising our kids, we should look to your personal lessons and experiences rather than the Bible? Is that what you’re saying here?

    • TRex

      What’s not biblical about his advice?

      • Jonathan

        There’s nothing Biblical about it! He doesn’t even refer to the Bible. He doesn’t use the Bible to support his points. He uses HIS own personal ideas and opinions to support HIS points. It’s all about his personal experience. (Or did you not bother to read it)? So I’m not sure how you could possibly think what he said is Biblical or has anything to do with the Bible.

        Take a look at it point by point. In every point his “proof” is himself and what he personally believes.

        1. *MY* wife and *I* never pretended…
        2. *MY* wife and *I* portrayed…
        3. Christianity to *US* equated adventure
        4. *WE* never…
        5. When *I* was a pastor…

        6. Lastly, *OUR* Christianity…

        A “Biblical” article would refer to the Bible. It would give verses and explain what they mean in relation to child rearing. That would be a Biblical article.

      • Jonathan

        And let me ask you a question. What’s Biblical about wishing people would burn in hell for eternity – because they don’t present the Gospel – the way you think they should? What’s Biblical about that? It’s not only judging, but it’s having a desire to see people go to hell! What Christian wants to see people go to hell?

        And it’s not a desire to see sinners go to hell – it’s a desire to see people who don’t teach the Bible the way you think is right – go to hell! Really!? That’s Biblical? And you didn’t pick up on that?

    • Jason Hunt

      No, that’s what YOU’RE saying here.

      • Jonathan

        There’s nothing Biblical about it! He doesn’t even refer to the Bible. He doesn’t use the Bible to support his points. He uses HIS own personal ideas and opinions to support HIS points. It’s all about his personal experience. (Or did you not bother to read it)? So I’m not sure how you could possibly think what he said is Biblical or has anything to do with the Bible.

        Let’s look at it point by point. In every point his “proof” is himself and what he personally believes.

        1. *MY* wife and *I* never pretended…
        2. *MY* wife and *I* portrayed…
        3. Christianity to *US* equated adventure
        4. *WE* never…
        5. When *I* was a pastor…

        6. Lastly, *OUR* Christianity….

        A “Biblical” article would refer to the Bible. It would give verses and explain what they mean in relation to child rearing. That would be a Biblical article.

    • Guest

      There’s nothing Biblical about it! He doesn’t even refer to the Bible. He doesn’t use the Bible to support his points. He uses HIS own personal ideas and opinions to support HIS points. It’s all about his personal experience. (Or did you not bother to read it)? So I’m not sure how you could possibly think what he said is Biblical or has anything to do with the Bible.

      Let’s look at it point by point. In every point his “proof” is himself and what he personally believes.

      1. *MY* wife and *I* never pretended…
      2. *MY* wife and *I* portrayed…
      3. Christianity to *US* equated adventure
      4. *WE* never…
      5. When *I* was a pastor…

      6. Lastly, *OUR* Christianity…

      A “Biblical” article would refer to the Bible. It would give verses and explain what they mean in relation to child rearing. That would be a Biblical article.

  • imsamyd

    wow Doug, this is an eye opener. Your a Moron. You say you were a Pastor and then call Drs. R.C. Srproul and D. James Kennedy tootlhless idiots.. Dr Sproul is the ONLY theologian that teaches all views of doctrinal debates then explains why he believes his position. I question if your a Christian or believe in God at all

    • TRex

      What are you talking about? Can you not read? Giles said the opposite of what you accuse him of. Wow, what a knee-jerk, sloppy loser you are.

      • imsamyd

        You read it again. Its a sentence that says Drs Sproul-Kennedy and other theologians that didn’t have an IQ of 50. They are all included in the same thought. That’s what a sentence is. IF he agrees with Kennedy and Sproul say that Then talk about others. I think I read it correctly.

        • Guitarbruce

          Please read it one more time: “I often brought them to seminary with me where they got to hear, up close and personal, Dr. R.C. Sproul, Dr. D. James Kennedy and other esteemed theologians who didn’t have three teeth and an IQ of 50.”

          He is admiring Sproul, Kennedy and other esteemed theologians who DIDN’T have tree teeth and an IQ of 50. He was saying there are valued, thinking theologians are out there and we should be listening to them and not listening to those that haven’t really spent any time wrestling with the Word.

          • imsamyd

            Your correct. I read thru quickly and my post was a knee jerk reaction. I apologize But in my defense, RC Sproul is a HARD CORE Reformed theologian and Calvinist. He teaches that God chooses us and we cant choose Him without His help. God has mercy on few and the many are left to live out their lives lost and going to hell. This is a very difficult doctrine to understand and takes years of prayer and Bible study to get it. Most main stream preachers and televangelists call Sproul a quack and often a cult leader. When Dr Sprouls name is in a sentence worded that way its usually in the negative. Another point is that under Sprouls teaching if a man was once a Pastor of a church then walks away and starts selling tobacco products that have proven negative effects might want to look at his salvation. Again with my quick read I thought Doug may have questioned Sprouls doctrine and included him in the 50 IQ’s.

    • Wes Walker

      You fail to correctly read one sentence, and from that ample pool of “evidence” imagine yourself to have adequate info to publicly question someone’s faith — from behind an Internet alias. You wanna go back and rethink that, there, Skippy?

      • imsamyd

        I apologize Wes, I read it quickly and erred. Please see my defense a few posts down.

  • joyfulinfhmi

    To imsamyd, he wasn’t calling them toothless idiots. Read it again, carefully this time.

  • Carney

    I was going to make a joke about people who only have two children and think they can lecture everyone about how to raise godly kids, but I decided against it…
    Still Doug, your 6 points are good positive guidlines!

  • Mathematical certainty

    Folks, some trinkets for today!
    1.) your is not equal to you’re
    2.) their is not equal to there or they’re
    3.) fare is not equal to fair
    4.) its is not equal to it’s
    5.) lose is not equal to loose
    6.) no is not equal to know
    7.) pale is not equal to pail,
    And there are hundreds more!

    • Dave

      Sew watts yore point? Ar ewe a grama sharif?

      • Mathematical certainty

        me pt iz u r a eelliderit!

        • Dave

          Watt wood cuz ewe too rite a ting like dat? Dew ewe bee knotty cuz bad grama doze tic ewe off? Ewe knead two tank tho guv’t skoals four dat won.

          • Mathematical certainty

            Dave, I am proud of you! You are an exemplary product of our public school educational system. Your command of the English language will open the doors for any position in local, county, state, or federal government. But, be careful out there! The grammar police are watching every move you make. One mistake, of spelling a word correctly, will subject you to the torturous path of “Awakening”.
            Have a good day!

          • Dave

            Is Dan Quayle an example of one who took a trip, down the torturous path of awakening to which you are referring?

          • Mathematical certainty

            So, potato-head added an “e”. Not as critical as the incompetent buffoon in the WH. You know the clown who pronounced corps as “corpse”, his visit to “57″ states with one more to go, his equating “inhalator” with “breathalyzer”. This bozo and his moronic minion followers in the House and Senate are incapable of an “Awakening”. So, Dave keep idolizing and following the Neanderthal-in-Chief. You are such an easy read!

          • Dave

            In Dan Quayle’s book, “Standing Firm” on page #331, last paragraph, Mr. Quayle explains that it was the school that provided the card with the wrong spelling. He made the mistake of relying on the school’s misinformation. Chapter 33 of the aforementioned book gives an account of the incident. You seem to have bought into the liberal’s projection on Mr. Quayle, being that you referred to him as “potato head”. That being said, I think that it would be more accurate to use the term “tortuous” when describing the path that a conservative is subjected to when they make a small grammatical error. As to you thinking that I am “an easy read”, one has to conclude one of three things, that you are wrong, that you lack comprehension skills, or that you jumped to a wrong conclusion when you assumed that I idolize BO(Bastard Obama). I’ll go with the third choice. Too bad that, the propaganda ministry doesn’t attack him and others in the same manner in which they attacked Mr. Quayle. Do you always insult Neanderthals by referring to BO as one of their kind?

          • Mathematical certainty

            My initial comment was directed at providing a basic review of
            elementary spelling and grammar to those who post at this or other
            sites, and to make them think before they write comments that confirm
            that they are the products of our failed public school educational
            system.

            Along comes Dave and in his attempt at humor, confirms that he is
            a product. Dave continues to rant about a book written by Dan Quayle
            which was on the NY Times best sellers list for 35 seconds and it
            sold three copies: the first to Dan, the second to Dan’s wife and the
            third to Dave.

            Dave, then concludes the following:

            That my comment with respect to Quayle was a
            smack-in-the-face of a conservative. Actually, my comment was
            on-point, Quayle was not a conservative, he simply represented
            whatever the pseudo RP told him to say.

            Former President’s Reagan and Bush were flooded with the word
            “tortuous” although unfounded, it planted the seeds (with the
            support of our educational system) to create a future generation of
            a left-wing-ignorant-liberal population of dummies.

            I am “wrong”, lack “comprehension skills” or “jumped
            to a wrong conclusion”. My response,

            a.) I am right, you are an easy read

            b.) I have read and fully comprehended written, scientific, and
            historic literature and information that would astonish most.

            My trinket to you is the following:

            You need to add a few more descriptive words to your comment, for
            anyone to comprehend what you actually mean. e.g., simply write
            “that you supported Dan Quayle”, period.

            Refer to 2.) part b. above to negate your assumption

            It’s time to end our discussion so, lets be clear!

            I am a Conservative to the nth degree. Both the D and R political
            parties are a scam, i.e., there is little difference between the
            two. Until the Rinos and liberal Dems are eliminated from the House
            and Senate, and Conservatives take command, we as a Nation will
            continue on a path to closure.

            I do apologize to the Neanderthals for equating obama to their
            higher levels of intelligence. Then, I thought about the use of
            Troglodytes, but then after requesting their permission, they became
            extremely upset. So, in an attempt to maintain peace and civility, I
            decided to go with the one-celled Amoeba. I am still awaiting their
            response!

          • Dave

            Actually, we agree on more issues than we disagree on. If you had actually comprehended my posts you would have already understood this. By the way, you are now insulting amoebae.

          • Mathematical certainty

            Actually, if you knew how to formulate a comprehensive comment, then there would not have been a controversy. You need to master linguistics before posting your thoughts.

          • Dave

            I disagree with you. You assumed too much, hence the “controversy”. Also, why get that uptight over grammatical errors? There are more important issues to address in this country today. Quit sweatin’ the small stuff.

          • Mathematical certainty

            “why get that uptight over grammatical errors?” “Quit sweatin’ the small stuff”.
            I’ll supply one of the most important examples which is being ignored. The destruction by interpretation of the United States (US) Constitution by illiterate-left-wing-dummy- progressives who populate the WH, both the House and Senate, and a significant sample of our population, who are hell-bent on ruining this country. Particularly, the first ten Amendments of the US Constitution which guarantee certain rights to the people, as freedom of speech, assembly and worship.
            You appear to have similar concerns about the mis-direction of our Nation, therefore, since you assume that I assume too much, I will assume that your 4th sentence implies that you are actively involved and engaged in addressing the more important issues in this country. What issue is more important than the usurpation of our Constitution by a class of uneducated tyrants? A Constitution that was written by people so-far-ahead-of-the-times, and yet today the Document is attacked by knuckle-headed morons who will continue to procreate progeny who will carry-on their quest for ignorance.
            A conversation that initiated with grammar, spelling, and linguistic structure and humor evolved into the evocation of political emotions. At least it is a start!

          • Dave

            You assumed that I am public school educated. Not true. You assumed that I idolize BO. Not true. You assumed that I consider Dan Quayle to be conservative. Not true. I was only pointing out that when a person, that the left perceives to be conservative makes a small error, they (the left) will viciously attack them. They will disregard the chain of events leading up to that error, even though it is not really all the fault of said perceived conservative. I agree with you on the erosion of The Bill of Rights by the leftists, both democrat and republican. I would add that the supreme court is also very guilty of destroying our Constitution. Several years ago I got into a very heated battle, in my locale, over property rights. It ultimately cost me my family and more. So while I am not currently all that active due to age and health issues that have sprung up, I was at one time very active in trying to fight the erosion of our rights. I have to pick my battles now. I have learned that the court system is nothing more than an extortion racket presided over by black robed sodomites. You can’t go by the “rules” in a game that is being run by the enemy. I’ve quit playing by their rules. The days of settling issues in court and at the ballot box are over in this country. All of that being said, I have enjoyed sparring with you. I was initially goofing off over the grammar thing and had made the assumption that you were rolling with it, when you replied to me. No offense was meant. All is well that ends well. Best wishes. (P.S. The lack of capitalization for certain names used above is intentional.)

          • Mathematical certainty

            I apologize, too many incorrect assumptions! I have had similar situations with the defense of individual rights and was overridden by the Kangaroos in the court system. So true, “You can’t go by the “rules” in a game that is being run by the enemy.” Sadly, age and health have restricted our activities. I fear that after we depart, like our parents, very few will carry the torch.

            I too have enjoyed the spar with you, my friend. Stay safe and healthy, there are not many of us left.
            My best to you and yours.

  • Hitched

    In some ways, much of the current disrespect for liberty and individual responsibility results from misunderstanding the lessons of science.

    • Clint

      Huh?

  • Oldskool

    “How someone can take the greatest story ever told and make it suck is both beyond me and unforgivable.” Well said my Christian brother!

  • jcbjr

    good points all. My wife of 30 years and I have put 12 kids on the ground, 5 young men and 7 young women, all biological, one at a time, by God’s grace all healthy.
    I especially agree with the point of allowing your kids to see conflict, and resolution.
    And with exposing them to higher thinking, critical thought, logic, good literature (including the Bible), etc. If you don’t expect much from your kids, that’s what you’ll get! Send them out grounded and prepared, so they can take on the world for good,and for God…JB

  • Colleen Phillips

    Well, Doug, how lovely that you can take full credit for how your kids turned out. We raised ours just like you raised yours, my friend, where we espoused and did all the things you’ve outlined in your list. We were determined that we would raise our kids differently than we were raised so they wouldn’t end up doing all the stupid things we did when we were teenagers. And none of it made a bit of difference. One by one, as each of them reached puberty and the burst of neurological development kicked in that is responsible for the increase of risk taking behavior so common in adolescence, they turned from the bright, happy, creative, well-behaved, compassionate, responsible Christian kids we had raised to sullen, rebellious, stereotypical, rotten teenagers that make you just want to slap some sense into them. It was as if my beautiful talented children, of which we were so proud, had been possessed by aliens. They looked kind of like my children, but it didn’t seem possible that they could be MY children. We spent countless hours on our knees beseeching God. They put us through many years of parental hell, traumatizing me to the point where I ended up in therapy for years trying to figure out what went wrong and where I had failed. Now I know that how your kids turn out is 50% genetic and 50% environment. Problem is, the environmental part has very little to do with the parents or the family home influence, Proverbs 22:6 notwithstanding. Try reading “The Nurture Assumption” by Judith Harris. 100 years ago, if a kid was bad, nobody blamed the parents; rather, they sympathized with them. A bad kid was held responsible for his own actions. Now, the parents grab all the glory if their kids turn out well, and accept all the blame and shame if they don’t. Fact is, having kids is a risky enterprise. you don’t know what you’re going to get and there are no guarantees, no matter how hard you try, or how many prayers you sent up to heaven.

    • Guitarbruce

      Having lived through this myself, I would only add that, perfect parenting does not ensure godly children. Each child has a free will and that will might be suppressed in the incubator of home and ‘good’ friends. It is expressed most negatively though when ungodly friends begin to influence a child who hasn’t truly made their faith their own and not their parent’s.

      The most Godly and perfect parent of all time lost His children to the world.

      • Colleen Phillips

        So true – thought these kids had their own relationship with God, since they all went forward themselves and requested baptism when they were ready, and they all had their own daily devotional times and prayed on their own, aside from family devotional and prayer times. They lived their faith, and even turned bullies into friends by “heaping burning coals” of kindness upon their heads!, and reached out to help elderly neighbors on their own, etc.
        But it was almost if some sort of genetic switch was flipped when they reached a certain age, and they discarded everything they had ever believed. They were drawn to the wrong crowd like magnets.
        And I was the same way as a kid – went from being a straight A student and obedient daughter (though my parents weren’t Christians and thought their duty was done once they fed and clothed me and sent me to school) to morphing into any parent’s worst nightmare, and my kids ended up just like me.
        There are lots of parents out there like you and me, Guitarbruce. Somehow we live through it, as you said, but it’s a hard road, because you can’t stop loving your kids, even if they break your heart and your spirit a thousand times or more.

  • mrsbarb

    Not wanting to open another can of worms, I swear!
    I am a Calvinist through and through, I believe that my children were chosen or not before the foundations of the earth. Now, my husband and I did all the right and wrong things in front of our children. One thing we did not do was put them in any children or youth program where they would have to attend alone. If they were to be in a children’s “church” or youth “church” either both of us or at least one of us was present. We did not trust anyone other than ourselves to instruct our daughters in the way of Adonai. That alone, we know is our responsibility and command from the L’rd, we had to teach them (Deut 6).
    Should we or can we take any credit at all in the way our three adult daughters live for H-m and H-s Kingdom? No!!! In reality we did more things wrong than right. Pray, yes, we prayed and continue to pray since the race is not yet over.
    My advice to parents: don’t give up, the fat lady is not even on stage yet.

  • MaranathaMark

    Doug you are entitled to your opinion and to share your experiences, but as each person is unique and an individual, there is NO MAGIC FORMULA for raising “Godly” kids, who will accept Salvation when they grow up. I don’t personally don’t believe in children being baptized, as if they are not mature enough to be legally married to another human, they most certainly lack the understanding of the covenant they are entering into with YHVH through Yeshua. Does not scripture say the Children are “Sanctified” by believing parents? Thus your children are covered until they are old enough to be on their own – that age of accountability thing. I do take exception to your advice on how to prioritize your life. The Bible says our relationship with the Holy Trinity (YHVH) comes first and all else will be given to us. That said, I do believe in Freewill, so you can do as you please. I am glad your children turned out well, but it was more of what the Father YHVH did, than what you did. I grew up in a home full of turmoil over religion, where my mother and dad constantly fought over going to church and such, so much so, that in my teenage through my early 20′s, I loathed the mention of Church. I didn’t hold YHVH, Yeshua or the Holy Spirit responsible, only men and women and they way they observed it. I knew too many children in my class, that were raised by elders, pastors and there-every-time-the-doors-swung-open-on-the-church children who could run sailors out of a bar! They drank, used drugs and had sex as much, if not more then the un-Churched/non-believing children. The “Christian” children who had been “Saved” and “Baptized” from age 5 and up, came from very strict-Bible Nazis to laid back “Flower Children” ‘Christians’. My experiences and exposure to the Gospel and the Word, came from my mother reading me and my siblings Bible Stories as children and teaching about the Gospel. There was 4 of us, my brothers, sister and I, and all of us eventually answered the call of the Father, and accepted Yeshua as our Savior/Messiah, at different times in our lives. But so far, all of us seem to have a much more profound and deeper relationship with the Holy Trinity, than most of my class mates who were “Saved” in their pre-teens or early teen years, and better than many of those children who grew up in “Churched Families”. I my point is, we all have to make our own decisions as whether or not to accept the call to salvation by the Father YHVH through His Son Yeshua. And while perfect parenting might provide a little more fertile ground where the seeds can be sown, my experience has been there really is no best way to raise your children that will ensure they will accept Yeshua as their Savior and Messiah. A good way to raise your children and have a solid marriage, is to work on your relationship with the Holy Trinity, and make sure you make that first and foremost, then your relationship with your wife, then your relationship with you children. Allow your relationship with the Holy Trinity to be lived out through your life and that will be your best witness tool to not only your kids, but to the whole world. But make no mistake about it, if your children accept Salvation, it was between the Holy Trinity and them. You are merely one of the messengers YHVH uses to reach all you come into contact with, including your children and other family members, usually in spite of your actions and words. Maybe you don’t hold to this either, but the Word says “All Glory belongs to the Lord”, so why do you try and take credit/glory for the work He does?

    • DChrls

      He didn’t say he put his family ahead of God. He said he didn’t put his job at the church ahead of his family.
      I’m sure you understand it’s a balancing act of sorts. You have to take life a day at a time. Ya know, what “schedule” worked yesterday might not be the best “schedule” for today.
      For example, You don’t blow off your child’s singing recital because the sound system at the church is acting up.

  • Azzure

    <3 Solid advice.. kids catch fire when their parents are on fire consumed by a loving God. There is wisdom in what you say. And I suspect there was serious prayer for them as well. Prayer changes things, and opens eyes of the unbeliever. (Btw I am not a Calvinist, as I have seen in the Bible where prayer changed God's mind towards people) especially as people intercede and stand in the gap for them! Good words.

    • soanonymous

      Yep, and kids have good BS detectors. Can’t fake it with them.

  • Ben Name

    has anyone made the comment that they are glad his kids aren’t “blowing off” God.

  • Evergreen Fields

    Regardless of whether a country is free or subjected to centralized control, technological advance depends upon a few people trying new ways of doing things before such new ways can be made available to the rest.

  • lowCal90

    I’ve found knowledge to be my edge and this a useful tool for staying sharp: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0094KY878

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