About the author: Doug Giles

Doug Giles is the Big Dawg at ClashDaily.com and the Co-Owner of The Safari Cigar Company. Follow him on Facebook and Twitter. And check out his new book, Rise, Kill and Eat: A Theology of Hunting from Genesis to Revelation.

View all articles by Doug Giles
  • Croco Dile

    “….we theists….. who believe in God and Christ simply because we’re straight goofy….”

    “For the most part we inherit our opinions. We are the heirs of habits and mental customs. Our beliefs, like the fashions of our garments, depend on where we were born. We are molded and fashioned by our surroundings. Environment is a sculptor – a painter…. If we had been born in Constantinople, the most of us would have said : ‘There is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet.’ If our parents had lived on the banks of the Ganges, we would have been worshippers of Siva, longing for the heaven of Nirvana. As a rule, children love their parents, believe what they teach, and take great pride in saying that the religion of mother is good enough for them…. The Scotch are Calvinists because their fathers were. The Irish are Catholics because their fathers were. The English are Episcopalians because their fathers were, and the Americans are divided into a hundred sects because their fathers were…. Children are sometimes superior to their parents [Doug Giles is not], modify their ideas, change their customs, and arrive at different conclusions.” – Ingersoll

    • Richard Irwin

      I find your statement insulting.
      I did not inherit my opinions, you have no idea of what environment I was born in and the process I went thru becoming a Christian, lots of experiences and skull sweat

      • 19gundog43

        Don’t bother with Croc-of-Crap. He has to really try to even reach boring level. Too smart by half.

      • Croco Dile

        Then you should make your skull sweat a little more, Richard !

      • Memphis Viking

        He’s one of those atheists who tries too hard to convince other people to reject something he claims doesn’t exist. Methinks he doth protest too much.

    • Russ

      where do you get your information?? you really have no idea what the hell your talking about. do you?? you quote people that you have never met I’m quite sure and yet you take their drivlle as a true statement. just a little hypocritical don’t you think? but I’m sure you have all the answers, right??

      • Croco Dile

        Then you have met Jesus ?

        • Russ

          as a matter of fact I have! Even you could if you wanted to.

          • Croco Dile

            You are a liar, Russ !

          • Russ

            lol, man you are a funny guy aren’t you. how do you propose to prove that. and just why do you feel the need to insult me? I don’t remember insulting you. but I will tell you one thing mr. noitall, I am not your mommies Christian. so don’t get into a name calling gig cause that is a battle you will never win. why is it that you liberals feel the need to insult people that don’t “think like you. Is that the best you have. dah!

          • 19gundog43

            Croc-of -Crap is a cut and paste from Google barroom boor. The type of boor that enters a room and sucks out all the fun. The kind of crushing boor that makes you want to drive red hot nails into your ears just to stop his droning narcissist babbling.

          • Russ

            yea, guys like him make me laugh. they think they know so much when in reality they don’t know anything. or as it says in Romans, “claiming to be wise, they became fools”. gotta love um though. they are always good for a laugh.

          • Croco Dile

            Celsus (early Second Century) :
            Some very few individuals who are considered Christians, of the more intelligent class, make objections against the doctrine of Jesus. Thus the following are the rules laid down by them : Let no one come to us who has been instructed, or who is wise or prudent, for such qualifications are deemed evil by us; but if there be any ignorant, or unintelligent, or uninstructed, or foolish persons, let them come with confidence. By which words, acknowledging that such individuals are worthy of their god, they manifestly show that they desire and are able to gain over only the silly, and the mean, and the stupid. It is only foolish and low individuals, and persons devoid of perception, and slaves, and women, and children, of whom the teachers of the divine word wish to make converts.

            Not much has changed for 2000 years !

          • Russ

            you are really preoccupied with your hate aren’t you. man, what do you do, spend all day going over your moronic posts and making comments. man dude, get a life for heaves sake.

          • Croco Dile

            A typical reply of people that resist knowledge…. No surprise here.

          • Croco Dile

            Russ, you must be a liar !
            Who else can you be telling you have met Jesus !?

            If you are really not mommies Christian, then you should have enough courage to use your ability to reason and EXAMINE things you believe in.

            Jesus is an invention of corrupt priests for the benefit of the Roman Empire. How can you possibly have met a fiction ?!

          • Russ

            well bozo, the knowing is in the going. so just continue to wallow in your unbelief and I will continue with my belief. Just so you know, I have EXAMINED the evidence and that is why I choose to belief. Why don’t you show a enough courage to prove I’m wrong. Just because you don’t believe something doesn’t make it untrue. Other than that there is nothing left to say to you. One thing is for sure, you can’t fix stupid. so ta ta.

          • Croco Dile

            My experience is the “believers” don’t want to hear evidence to the contrary. As you have shown to be a liar I don’t believe you have examined anything.
            Reading your rants I’m sure you are not an exception to this rule.

          • Russ

            your experience?? what a joke. bye bye bozo. have fun where ever you end up.

    • chamuiel

      In other words, you have no point.

      • Croco Dile

        No point at all…. for an idiot !

    • Billy Mullins

      You know nothing. The fact that my parents were both (nominal) believers does not men that I “inherited” my beliefs. I was always one to examine my basic beliefs on a regular basis and adjust as necessary. In fact it was this habit of throwing everything out at intervals and starting over that got me in hot water when I attended a conservative, church affiliated college as a ministerial student. “Preacher Boys” (as ministry students were called) were not supposed to be constantly questioning everything but to be there to get the ammunition needed to be a soldier of Christ. When I questioned all beliefs – even the most fundamental, I was branded a heretic, a radical and an unbeliever. For me it was merely a process of determining if my prior beliefs were viable to the person I was becoming. I usually ended up with pretty much the standard beliefs but my reasoning was seldom orthodox. I left school in my senior year because the head of the bible department essentially said that there was no way I was getting a degree in biblical studies from any department of which HE was head.

      But I will agree with your assertion to a degree. A lot of the folks I encountered seemed to have “inherited” their belief system. I came to that conclusion because very few were able to either articulate their beliefs or the reason(s) WHY they so believed.

      • Croco Dile

        Good for you.

        I quoted Ingersoll….
        Also you can read Joseph Wheless.

  • Croco Dile

    “….There’s your opium.”

    How could endless generations fall for a book full of such pompous rhetoric that melts like candle wax, unable to stand the flame of even an elementary critical approach ? – Michael Kalopoulos

    • Joan

      What book are you refering to?

      • Croco Dile

        The Bible, of course !

    • chamuiel

      The Atheist Bible?

      • Croco Dile

        There is no such thing as an “Atheist Bible”.

        Only the lying book called “The Bible”.

  • Jessica Evans

    I don’t think your analysis holds for all atheists, only for atheists who think arriving at the conclusion that god doesn’t exist makes any further philosophical thought unnecessary.

  • Russ

    like the old saying goes, “there ain’t no atheist’s in fox holes”

    • William Burke

      “Atheist’s” is singular possessive. Are you saying there are more than one, or less?

  • 19gundog43

    ATHEISM: The Opiate for the Morally Corrupt
    corrupt. Love it Doug!! Atheists remind me of frightened children trying to act brave while passing through a graveyard all the time wetting their pants. If God doesn’t exist why are these children so afraid of Someone who doesn’t exist in their alleged minds?

  • Colleen Phillips

    I really don’t understand why atheists and Christians have to attack
    each other. Why can’t we practice tolerance, even if we don’t agree?
    I’ve looked at this issue from many sides – I’ve been a nominal
    Catholic, an atheist, a born-again evangelical Protestant Christian, and
    an agnostic. The above few quotes aside, I don’t think most atheists
    are looking for an excuse to practice debauchery.
    There are plenty of decent moral people who don’t profess Christianity. My dad
    wouldn’t set foot in any church and he did not pray, but he respected those who did.
    He showed tremendous depth of character on a daily basis. He served his
    country for 30 years and was a veteran of 3 wars. He was married to one
    woman for 60 years and was her caregiver for the last 22 years of her
    life, during which she was a severely disabled stroke victim. He was
    always helping others and making a difference; he risked his life on
    several occasions to save the lives of others.
    He is my hero and my example and I know this world is a better place because he was in it. So get off your soapbox Doug. Christians DO NOT have a monopoly on morality.

    • 19gundog43

      Christians are fine with live and let live, it’s the Christaphobes who demand all forms of Christian practices and acknowledgement be banned from the pubic square. They try to use the 1st Amendment to ban all Christian prayer and mention of God in public. Little sniveling cowards, try that with a Muslim!

      • Colleen Phillips

        My point is that Doug Giles is obviously NOT fine with “live and let live.” The above article is clear proof of that. And there are lots of other “Christians” begging God to bring hellfire down on the “apostates” and “sinners.” Every church has its share of legalistic hypocrites who think they are qualified to be judge and jury over those who believe differently. There is a heck of a lot of self-righteousness and precious little tolerance coming from Christian circles these days, as far as I can tell.
        Example: My daughter, a single mom, was grocery shopping with her adorable little boy, when a total stranger walked up to her, grabbed her left hand, and exclaimed, “I don’t see a wedding ring on that finger!” This woman called my precious grandson “illegitimate.”
        That kind of scene is not as rare as you might think, especially in the South.

        • Croco Dile

          Christianity is a jewish apocalyptic religion which encourages Christians to instigate an apocalyptic war to wipe out 2/3 of humankind while providing the murderous Christian psychopaths the false hope that they will be spared in heaven, if not on Earth. From the first, Christianity created the myth that the “end times” are near and therefore the survival of the people is of secondary importance to instigating the apocalypse and destroying the World.
          It creates the self-destructive illusion of superiority by means of subservience, of victory through martyrdom and defeat, ultimately life through death, not only of the individual, but also of human kind as a whole.

          This is also true for Islam – both religions were created of the same philosophy.

          • Memphis Viking

            Where in the Bible does it tell Christians to “instigate an apocalyptic war”?

          • Croco Dile

            It does not. But this is a logical consequence of the doctrine of “end times”.
            You never hear of Apocalypse ?

          • Memphis Viking

            Your grasp of logic leaves something to be desired. There is nothing in Christianity that teaches that Christians are supposed to start the Apocalypse. If there was, you would think someone would have done it in 2000 years.

          • Croco Dile

            When Christians dominated Europe in the Dark Age (=the Christian age) there were a lot of religious wars between Christian factions. Humanity was lucky they did not have nuclear weapons….
            But this has changed.
            It seems the other apocalyptic religion – Islam – is getting prepared for a clash which can result in a nuclear Armageddon.
            Then you will have it !

            They simply did not have the tools until very recently.

          • Memphis Viking

            Wars between Christian factions does not equate to trying to wipe out humanity. Try again.

          • Croco Dile

            This was the most they could do with weapons they had.

            Now there are “better” ones to their disposal. And the US shares the nuclear knowledge with other states – Israel, China (from China to North Korea)…. just for fun ?

          • Memphis Viking

            You must have a very flexible mind with all the mental stretching you do.

          • Croco Dile

            Just trying to avoid worm’s-eye vew…… Too many things happen at the same time. Who can keep track ?!

        • 19gundog43

          That person was just a weirdo. I have been a Christian for 60 years and live in Fl. and have never encountered anyone who would do that. That person may not even claim to be Christian.

          • Colleen Phillips

            Florida may be located in the South, but it isn’t the South. I lived in Florida and most everybody there is from the Northeast. The woman I spoke of was probably from the Church of God, you know, one of those types who don’t wear pants and never cuts her hair. I’m in Alabama, and the first question asked when you meet someone is often: “Where do you go to church?” The correct answer around here is either Baptist or Church of Christ. Anything else gets raised eyebrows. Even so, I love it here. It’s a great place to live.

        • William Burke

          The woman is fortunate indeed that I wasn’t around. As a Southerner myself, I know how to put them in their place, but good.

      • John H. Foley

        Um…you have read the first amendment right? I believe it says something about the government cannot establishing a religion and cannot prevent the free exercise of religion. You can pray anywhere you want and mention your God anywhere you want. The government cannot, because it would entail the government establishing a public preference for a religion. And as you may not know, Christianity is not the only religion practiced in the United States. So in this situation the government has to remain neutral in religious displays. So you can preach to your heart’s content about your religious beliefs on public property. You cannot have the government do it though.

        There is currently a case in Oklahoma City of a purely privately purchased statue of the Ten Commandments placed on public property. This case will decide whether a permanent privately purchased structure of a religious nature violates the constitution. This is going to end badly either way though as if it is legal, the Satanic in Church of New York has purchased a statue of Satan to also be displayed on the Oklahoma City Capitol grounds.

        • William Burke

          So someone had a photograph of Satan to work from? Does Wikipedia know?

    • chamuiel

      So, you have an identity crisis?

      • Colleen Phillips

        I have an inquisitive mind, always have. I was studying comparative religion and reading Bible commentaries when the other little girls were playing hopscotch and jumping rope. We are all shaped and changed by our life experiences, and I’ve had a wide range of experience. Every honest thinking person comes to a point of questioning what he/she has been told and taught by others. Sure I’ve had identity crises, lots of them, in fact, and what of it?

        • William Burke

          They build character, when allowed to.

      • William Burke

        So, you have something wrong with your ass?

  • Dindu Nuffins

    Hitchens was actually a good guy, on the right side of a lot of issues we care about, like the threat posed by Islam, for example. Despite his “left” stance on a lot of other things, he opposed abortion. He was also passionately hated by other leftists for his support of the Bush administration and the Iraq war. He visited wounded troops in hospital and personally thanked them with great humility. I am “hard right” but I’ll always have a soft spot in my heart for the Hitch. He’ll be missed.

  • Colleen Phillips

    So people who don’t agree with your religious views are morally corrupt, Doug? There’s some Christian love for ‘ya! I wonder how your Saviour would approach atheists? I doubt He would spew hostility and sarcasm as you do. No, He saves His spewing for hypocrites and tepid Christians. He prefers people either hot or cold in their approach to spiritual things. Atheists are “cold” and they are honest. I wonder who Jesus would rather sit down to dinner with – an atheist or a pompous Pharisee? Anyone who has studied The Bible knows the answer.

    • Dindu Nuffins

      Atheists and believers can live together as equals before the law under our glorious Constitution. Not so with Islamists who believe that Shariah trumps all. Jews, Christians, non-believers need to be united against the rising tide of Islam, which will soon be the world’s dominant religion if it keeps growing at its present rate.

      • Colleen Phillips

        Agreed! Islam is as evil as evil can possibly be, and a dire threat to our liberty. If there is one thing Islam does NOT believe, it’s “Live and Let Live.”

        • William Burke

          It is unnecessary to believe Islam is evil. All of Islam is NOT evil. It is a religion of peace and brotherhood. But it has been increasingly turned towards evil goals, by evil men.

          Sharia is utterly incompatible with the Constitution, which is the highest law of the land. Safeguards must be put into place to prevent the implementation of Sharia in any part of the United States, or its territories.

          Let freedom ring, not Sharia dogma!

      • William Burke

        It is a long road that led me to this realization. No more lying to myself!
        Sharia Law and the United States Constitution are in no way whatsoever compatible!

        And, since Sharia does not compromise or make peace with other beliefs, it must be driven from our shores! And the sooner, the better.

        No more lying to myself: this has nothing to do with “tolerance towards others” that practice no tolerance towards us!

    • Russ

      no Colleen, He made a whip of cords and drove the “atheists” from the temple. And yes I have read the Bible just so you know. and also, just so you know he did dine with Pharisees and atheists.

      • Colleen Phillips

        Jesus drove out the money changers, the buyers, and the sellers from the outer court of the temple. This included Jewish and Gentile merchants, as well as Jewish pilgrims there to change out their Roman coins and purchase animals for sacrifice. Jesus’s intent was not to punish non-believers; rather, he objected to commerce taking place in the temple, which, by the way, was permitted by the High Priest, who was NOT, as far as I know, an atheist.

        Jesus did dine with Pharisees; he was usually invited as part of a scheme to entrap him on some point of doctrine. He knew he was walking into a hostile environment, but was always able to teach a lesson. More often though, he preferred the company of “sinners.”
        I haven’t just read the Bible; I studied it intensively for over 20 years.

    • William Burke

      Or maybe he would say, “I can hardly blame you.”

  • BikerBill

    I read your work every day, Mr. Giles, and usually agree with you. But you are so far off base with this tirade that I don’t know where to start. I’ve been an atheist since I was a young teen. Despite that blot on my character, I’ve been with the same wonderful woman for 35 years, I spent 31 years in a responsible position in journalism, I pay my taxes and have never harmed another soul. I don’t need religion or God, because I live by the Golden Rule. If you wish to believe in God, knock yourself out; I have no issues with you. I don’t think people who believe in a god are boobs; I think they disagree with me and I’m always ready to hear other points of view (unlike you, apparently). I too remember my mother with love, I too collect guns and I most certainly am NOT autonomous, loose and randy (except with the aforementioned woman, my lovely wife). You need to change your attitude; stop painting all atheists with the same brush and stop going for cheap cheers from the pews; we can all share this country without rancor or insults.

    • Croco Dile

      “Do good, for good is good to do;
      Spurn bribe of heaven and threat of hell.”

      Faith, I read, “has for its object the unknowable.” How could the things of faith be unknowable if they were all inerrantly revealed by God in the “Holy Bible, book divine”? I determined to know the truth, if it could be found in the Bible. I bought two copies of that sacred book for what seemed must be the test of truth. My method was simple and looked sure: from Genesis to Revelation I reread one copy, pencil in hand; every passage that seemed meet for my purpose I marked, noting book, chapter, and verse on the margin of each copy for identification. These sacred and marked volumes I then tore apart, and with scissors cut out every marked passage. Patiently then I sorted the great mass of clippings, putting apart into little piles all that told the same tale differently, or treated the same Christian doctrine at cross-purposes. This accomplished, I read and carefully “matched” one inspired truth with another. Then, through several years, at every opportunity which a rather active professional work and frequent absences from the country permitted, and into the weary hours of many a night, painstakingly, conscientiously, faithfully, in my quest for truth out of the fountain of revelation, I carried on the work of creating order out of the chaos which almost appalled me with its multiplicity and its inconsistency.

      IS IT GOD’S WORD ?
      AN EXPOSITION OF THE FABLES AND MYTHOLOGY OF THE BIBLE AND OF THE IMPOSTURES OF THEOLOGY
      by Joseph Wheless New York – 1926

      Knowing the truth, men will be free from the dominion of error.

      • Colleen Phillips

        Well, if I were a still a Christian, I would quote The Bible to you as follows: For the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2:14.
        There’s a Bible verse for everything – you will never convince them.

        • Croco Dile

          There is no way to challenge someone who does not want to be challenged….. if not using force.
          Force was the method the Roman Empire used to instill Christianity in Europe. Accept our state religion, Christianity, or we will kill you !

          • William Burke

            The same Roman Empire that tried to extinguish Christ and his followers! Isn’t it amazing?

          • Croco Dile

            Wrong !
            The Roman Empire was trying to extinguish the militaristic Sicarii.
            You should gain some knowledge on this….
            The Roman Empire BECAME Christianity !
            Christianity was directed, since it’s inception, from Rome !
            And it is so until today.

        • Memphis Viking

          Of course there’s a Bible verse for everything. If that little nugget in and of itself isn’t enough to convince you God wrote it…

      • BikerBill

        Huh?

        • Croco Dile

          Read his book and you may understand, Bill on his bike !

    • Colleen Phillips

      Thank you – I commented similarly below in reference to my “morally corrupt” father, who was not a “believer” but who was my hero and one of the finest human beings I have ever known, a man of tremendous character and courage, who saved lives and helped hundreds, if not thousands of people during his life.

      • BikerBill

        You’re welcome .. I read your post and of course know many people who lived similar, wonderful lives without the assistance of religion. I understand the need people have for religion and in fact I truly believe that if our country ever abandons faith, we are doomed. The fact that I choose not to believe may sound incongruous, but there it is.

        • William Burke

          It makes sense to me. Don’t dwell on it.

        • Colleen Phillips

          Not incongruous at all – I totally understand. Religious faith is a vital part of the fabric of a free society. Without it, I don’t think our nation would ever have risen and developed and achieved as it has.

    • William Burke

      It’s no “blot on your character”. Far from it. But you CANNOT prove – even to yourself – that God doesn’t exist. You’re lying to yourself it you say you can. You agree you can’t prove he exists, right? Than how can you prove he doesn’t?

      I’m trying to move you to a much more rational system: agnosticism.

    • francoamerian

      BikerBill, I am sixty-eight years old now. As I was growing up my mother was a Catholic and I attended Catholic school. My father was was a gung ho atheistic Communist. So I had the best and worst of both worlds growing up. As a teenager after my father died I was torn between trying to decide if God existed or not. Really, I anguished mentally trying to decide whether to believe if God existed or not. I read all kinds of philosophy and religious books to try and make my mind up. I went through a period of time in my life where I was totally confused and mentally at war with my desire to believe in God or believe in simple evolution as to how we got here.

      There are good arguments on both sides of the fence. But at the end of the day I cannot in good faith look at everything that surrounds me, the Universe, the life and complexity in creatures that are around us and just everything in general that surrounds us. I cannot look at all of that and say this was all created by “accident.” As someone else in another post mentioned, we may never know how or why we are here. One can only hope at this point that when we get to the “other side” we will have an answer to our questions.

      Personally I think it takes more faith to not believe in God’s existence then to believe that he does exits.

      One last thing, whether you believe in God or not, it pays to live and let live. In other words if I chose to believe in God I only ask that you let me believe as I chose to believe in peace without harassment or roadblocks. I in turn would gladly let you believe or not believe whatever you chose to do without harassment from me.

  • Dindu Nuffins

    “Ah, look at all this infighting and disunity among constitutionalists and conservatives!” So say the Islamists and communists while rubbing their hands with glee.

    • bandit

      Uh , well at least we can have a civil debate without being thrown in the goulogh !

    • Memphis Viking

      That’s because constitutionalists and conservatives can think for themselves and don’t have to toe the party line. Therefore, we disagree on things.

      • William Burke

        We can even disagree about disagreement. We can have a pushing and shoving fight. Then we can have barbeque and beer together afterwards!

  • bandit

    I don’t care what a persons beliefs are as long as they don’t force their agenda on me !

    • Azsteve53

      Red herring argument either way. Belief is a personal decision. No one can force anyone to believe something they do not want to believe in.

      • Colleen Phillips

        You are correct that no one can force a person to believe a certain way, but they can sure try and they can sure violate my rights and freedoms, and make my life miserable in the process of trying to force their agenda on me.

        • William Burke

          Take a deep breath. At least no one is going to burn you at the stake for them! See? Who said there’s no progress? :D

  • craigmayberry

    Just say it, “God does not exist” you get that feeling on the back of your neck that says you’re treading on dangerous ground. God has placed knowledge of his existence in your DNA.

    • Azsteve53

      DNA is elegant evidence of creation. DNA is 22,000 pairs of protein encoded genes that must be in perfect order for life. Any deviation will result in defects or death. This is a complicated order, and order and complexity are products of a mind. Therefore DNA originates from a vastly superior mind.

      Something that has never existed before in the universe cannot create itself into existence.

      • http://mattison0922.wordpress.com/ The Reactionary Researcher

        I’m not taking issue with your overall conclusion, just be aware that DNA isn’t “protein encoded genes.” Proteins are encoded by DNA, but DNA isn’t protein. The number 22,000 refers to total genes, but is probably underestimated. It doesn’t take into account the fact that some genes encode multiple proteins. Also, the order of the genes doesn’t seem to be critical. Genes get moved around all the time.

        Also, you might get yourself into trouble with your point about order and complexity. Order and complexity can arise naturally all the time. Rocks are ordered… all crystals are ordered. That occurs via chemistry and nothing more. Complexity arises all the time too. Complexity and order alone aren’t enough to reach the conclusion of “mind.” It’s the specification that matters.

        Consider for a moment a poker game. If the guy across from you gets a royal flush, then you’ll probably be amazed, think it’s neat, rare, etc., but you won’t necessarily think he’s cheating. If he keeps getting royal flushes or if he specifies beforehand what hand he gets you’d think something was amiss. It’s the specification that matters, not the order or complexity alone.

        • dj

          What?

          • http://mattison0922.wordpress.com/ The Reactionary Researcher

            What what?

            If there’s a question about something I wrote, you’ll need to ask it more specifically. I’m happy to answer.

      • William Burke

        How can you be sure it has never existed before? Have you searched the entire cosmos, from the “beginning” (peculiar concept, that) to now?

        • http://mattison0922.wordpress.com/ The Reactionary Researcher

          I think you missed the point. Irrespective of whether or not DNA exists elsewhere in the cosmos, AZSteve implies that it needs a creator to encode it.

          There is a beginning, but it’s nonsensical to postulate a “before the beginning.” The BBT says all time, energy, and matter were created in that instant. Just as there was no “before,” there was no “out there;” “there” didn’t exist prior to BB.

    • William Burke

      I am an agnostic because I can find no such knowledge. If I am positive I’ve found it, how can I be sure I’m right?

      I cannot say God exists. Likewise, I cannot say he doesn’t. There is WAY too little evidence either way.

  • Azsteve53

    Atheism is an irrational position. In order to be an atheist one has to have evidence there is NO God. Simply put no atheist has even a snippet of such information. Being unsure simply means being an agnostic.

    Science is on the side of creation, and belief in God is in fact a highly reasoned, supportable belief system. Atheism however is not.

    • BikerBill

      Wrong. I don’t need evidence that there is no God, I simply need my own belief that that is the case. You have your faith; I don’t. As far as I’m concerned, there’s really no evidence either way, so I choose to believe that there is simply no way to prove God’s existence to my satisfaction. You pay your money and you take your choice. I’m happy to let you believe in God if you wish; please have the courtesy to let me believe there is no God. In the grand scheme of things, does it really make a difference? And here’s another point I’d like to make. If there is a God, why does he allow so much suffering? Why does he allow war and disease? Save the old “he works in mysterious ways.” If God makes the good things in this life, he also makes the cruelty and horrors we see in the news every day, and that’s a God I don’t need.

      • 19gundog43

        You also have faith in the your belief there is no God. Belief means nothing. You can believe you drive a Rolls but all the evidence shows you drive a Yugo. Everyone around you laughs at your irrational beliefs but you cannot see past your false beliefs.

        • BikerBill

          What kind of idiot would start up his Yugo every morning and believe he was driving a Rolls? You maybe, not me. The idea that believers are laughing at me isn’t really that scary. And here’s an idea; read back your last line and aim it at yourself instead of me. Beliefs are simply that; things we believe in. You have your beliefs, I have mine.

          • 19gundog43

            This kind of idiot… A psalm of David. Only fools say in their
            hearts, “There is no God.”
            Psalm 14:1 ( But)
            He who sits in Heaven will laugh and Lord Jehovah will mock them.
            Psalm 2:4

          • BikerBill

            I hesitate to say it … but I will. Quoting the Bible to make your point to somebody who doesn’t believe in it is kind of a waste of time.

          • 19gundog43

            It is just such an apt description of you I could not resist. You guys were known way back there by people far more intelligent. LOL!

          • Croco Dile

            Don’t wait for a reasonable thought from Poor Dog….

      • Memphis Viking

        So basically you’ve built a straw man God that you can feel better about rejecting.

    • William Burke

      I am NOT unsure about my agnosticism! I am POSITIVE I don’t know whether God exists or not!

      • EL

        About as logical as one can get. I’ve always said….Nobody can absolutely prove there is a God and nobody can absolutely prove there is not. An atheist will never prove that there is not a God. I’m going on the safe side and go with IS a God. Can’t go wrong with that. But you can go wrong with saying there is not, or even questioning HE who IS.

  • Azsteve53

    Classic case of cosmological evidence of creation:

    At a meeting of scientists – titled “State of the Universe” – convened last week at Cambridge University to honor Stephen Hawking’s 70th birthday, cosmologist Alexander Vilenkin of Tufts University in Boston presented evidence that the universe is not eternal after all, leaving scientists at a loss to explain how the cosmos got started without a supernatural creator. The meeting was reported inNew Scientist magazine (Why physicists can’t avoid a creation event, 11 January 2012)

    http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/vilenkins-verdict-all-the-evidence-we-have-says-that-the-universe-had-a-beginning/

    • William Burke

      The Big Bang Theory itself is religion disguised as science! Cosmologists have been bending facts – and breaking some along the way – to find any way possible to prop up the BBT, and the BBT is not well represented by the known facts, so unknown facts are sought continually.

      The only religious belief system compatible with reason and fact is agnosticism: the honest man says, “frankly, I don’t have enough information to say whether God exists or not. Likewise, I lack information to say he DOESN’T. I just don’t know, and I probably never will.”

      • garysvent

        Oh, yes he will. Ultimately, he will.

      • http://mattison0922.wordpress.com/ The Reactionary Researcher

        Do you have any examples of said facts that are being bent or broken? What facts are not represented by the BBT? Red-shift? Expansion? The singularity itself?

        What is an “unknown fact?”

  • jdbixii

    The nail hit squarely on the head! In 1966, the “God Is Dead” theory hit the headlines of major magazines and periodicals. The “spiritual relief” that was gained by “God Is Dead” was the belief that there would be no moral accountability if there were no God.
    Unless it is a weakness to believe that every child is born of and needs a mother, it should be obvious that the child can not come into existence without one! It is no more irrational to believe that all life had an origin and that that origin involved intelligent design. Simply being able to put words to paper in intelligible, legible sentences leads me to conclude that intelligent design is an indispensable reality. Just as there is a realmic order in terrestrial humanity, the order of the universe can not be happenstance. I would submit that the Huxleys had a nominal problem…..H=goal, U=in relation to, and X=the unknown quantity. “This above all, to thine own self be true.”
    One of the attributes of God is that He can not deny Himself. What man is not made in the image of God?

  • Wes

    Great article, Doug! Except one thing: Lucretius wasn’t a pre-Socratic philosopher, he was a Roman who lived in the first century BC. I’m currently translating his work De Rerum Natura, in which he says things like “It’s pleasant to watch a man drown.” Not exactly a pillar of morality! Lack of accountability for your fellow man indeed makes life easier but eviler.

    A good ancient philosopher to add to your mix would be Diogenes the Cynic, who was basically an ancient beatnik. He rejected all social customs and morals, and thus would urinate, defecate, and have sex all right out in the public square! That’s why he was called “cynic”, which means “dog-like” in Greek. History repeats itself.

    • JustBill

      Isn’t this the gentleman who, when being asked why he was holding a lantern and searching the dark streets of the city what he was looking for, replied “an honest man”?

      • Wes

        Yup. Diogenes’ response to him was “a man”, by which he meant “a virtuous man.”

  • jrrrr

    Morality is a set of rules regarding how each must act in order to reach specific goals; those goals being an earthly social relationship of charitable harmony and a heavenly reward. Without the morality there is still a set of rules regarding how each must act in order to reach the same earthly goal of charitable harmony. The only difference between the two is that the rules of the former are believed to be God-given and the rules of the latter are originated by the circumstances of physical cause and effects.

    There is no reason to believe that the two groups cannot agree on a single set of rules, because it is the SAME set of rules, in which interpersonal action is limited to voluntary, mutually beneficial exchanges of time, skills and resources, which automatically excludes from all human interaction, all forms of exploitation, whatever its political label. These are the rules, specifically freedom from exploitation as the cause of a desired effect, that when used to govern human action successfully results in the desired effect of harmonious prosperity. The use of freedom’s opposite, exploitation, to cause this same effect is futile, as it results in the opposite effect, that of poverty and social hostility.

    It follows that the issue is not between atheists and religionists, but between those, whatever their religious beliefs, who correctly define “freedom” as the means to charitable harmony and the thieving pseudo-religionists/pseudo-atheists (liberals) greedily and deceitfully validating their own risk free, exploitation-funded personal enrichment, with the claim that using welfare state politics to exploit some people for the benefit of others is synonymous with both moral superiority and charity.

  • JimH69

    The basic axiom holds:
    If Christians are wrong we go to the same oblivion as the atheist. Just as happy in life, just as dead in death. If the atheist are wrong…

    In short, Jesus has my back. You have no one.

    Also know this. That last statement gives me no comfort, no sense of victory. It breaks my heart is ways no atheist can understand.

    • Stu Chisholm

      Yeah, but I don’t hand over cash to charlatans, waste a lot of my time talking to my hands and all my Sundays are free. :D

      • JimH69

        My money goes to good causes, my prayers are never wasted, and My Sundays are spent just fine.

        At best you describe the worst consolation prize ever given whats at stake.

        :P

        • Stu Chisholm

          Um… at stake? The afterlife is like cake in Portal. Nothing’s “at stake.” I don’t trust Benny Hinn to spend my money wisely, nothing fails quite like prayer and my Sundays are mine to enjoy as I see fit. (Atheists also have a lot less needless shame and guilt — LOL!) But I’m glad you’re happy.

          • sandraleesmith46

            Funny…PET and MRI scans both show POSITIVE effects of prayer on the pray-er, if NOTHING else is accomplished, but the evidence shows it’s NOT the only good effect either! Oh, but that’s science….

          • Stu Chisholm

            Your point? Placebos work, too. I find it best not to get my science information from church. Several studies have shown that, when the patient is unaware of any prayers on their behalf, results are the same as if there were none; an obvious placebo effect. (In some instances, the outcomes were even worse!)
            http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
            Oh, but that’s science…

          • sandraleesmith46

            NYT is NOT science; NIMH, NIH, and on occasion the VA HEALTH pages also report actual science. NYT has slid so far off the left cliff it’s got to be gurgling in the Hudson by now!

          • Stu Chisholm

            Nor is the buy-bull, Sandy, but at least the NYT is REPORTING on a scientific study. That’s kinda what newspapers do.

      • sandraleesmith46

        Wow! What an EMPTY vessel you are!

        • Stu Chisholm

          And what a judgmental bigot YOU are!
          (Name calling is fun, ain’t it? Just remember who started it. I’m feelin’ the luv of Jeezus now — LOL!)

          • sandraleesmith46

            Describing a condition is not “name calling! However, you BET I’m “judgmental”that being commanded by God repeatedly, throughout His instructions to His followers, contrary to popular modern opinion! And I have no doubt, in your view, that makes me a “bigot”, for all your lib definition is skewed!

          • Stu Chisholm

            Ah, so all of that “judge not lest ye be judged” stuff is optional then? What other things in your bible are optional?

    • JustBill

      Here lies an atheist, all dressed up and no place to go.

  • Claude M. Dionne

    Whether or not some people go or don’t go to either a temple, a synagogue, a church, or some other place of worship, countless people are truly searching for a spiritual “father figure” (God, Yeshua, etc.,.) who they hope would ‘defend’ them through their earthly existence. What puzzles me is WHEN atheists, if not agnostics also, would say, “If I don’t see God in the flesh, then I will not believe”. I even have heard/read that some people may have experienced a ‘sixth sense experience’, only to discard it later! At least, agnostics DOUBT that there is some deity, but to their credit, they would probably reconsider their ideological stance later on in life if proven slightly wrong. In my ‘humble’ opinion, there is NO doubt that there is a personal GOD who cares to some high degree about His Creation; but there is also an impersonal ‘Scroo- ge’ named Satan who will both give and steal according to his “tyrannical” rules. It’s Jesus facing Satan in a ‘Heavyweight’ boxing match in the ‘arena’ of life. In the end, Jesus will “knock-out” Satan by unanimous decision! Go, Jesus, go!!

  • Tonto

    Note the wordy and oh-so-esoteric propounding about the “liberating” effect of going atheist. Where I came from, they call that “stylin’ and profilin’”…a form of phoniness and posing….and utter bullshit.

  • Stu Chisholm

    Complete strawman.
    So here I am, minding my own business, happily looking for some pro-freedom, pro-gun inspiration, and instead I get to read about how corrupt I am ’cause I’m not a member of Club Christ? Really? Why do you feel so threatened because not everybody believes the same as you do? Feeling insecure? Uncertain? Seriously, Doug, that’s no way to “win hearts and minds” when it comes to preserving our rights and freedoms. You gonna screed on Jews next?

    • sandraleesmith46

      NOT “threatened”! If I’m standing safe and dry on a pier, with a life preserver at hand and see peopletrying to reach safety, swimming against the currents, why would I fear those people? Rather, would I not throw the life preserver in an effort to help them ALSO reach safety? But your version would view that as trying to drown them, instead! Now how sad and pathetic is that, in truth?

      • Stu Chisholm

        Since my remarks and questions were aimed at the author of this article and you chose to answer for him, it would seem that you DO have some feeling of uncertainty or threat. I also don’t follow your tortured analogy; drowning people?

        First, I think you might begin to grasp my mindset if you got your Clash Daily and opened it to find an article bagging on Christianity. How would you like that? And having imaginary “life preservers” to save people from imaginary threats is not a great argument to sway the unconvinced. A Muslim might think s/he is doing you a great favor by preaching Mohammad and bringing you to Islam, too. Do you think you deserve their ire if you respectfully decline? Sad and pathetic indeed!

        • sandraleesmith46

          Your “remarks” may have been labeled with Doug’s name, but they were AIMED at all believers. And since a simple analogy is too difficult for you to grasp, there’s certainly no point in trying to explain the complexities and subtlties of God’s truth to you. Feel free to follow the Muslim; that’ll take you to the same destination you’ve already chosen in any case.

          • Stu Chisholm

            Ah, so now you know my intent better than I do? Amazing! :D

  • Tony

    Silly post. Nonsense. Why worry so much about why/what atheists believe? Maybe the writer does have an IQ of 50.
    Let me tell you why, as an atheist, I don’t believe in Christianity or any other religion or sky-king worshipping cult. Because it is nonsense. It can’t be logically explained or defended, and must hide behind a cloak of “faith”.
    You can take every holy book ever written, every sermon, every prayer, every pamphlet, scripture and psalm, pile them all up into one big mountain of fervent mega-religiosity, and I will refute it all with one word…..”No.”
    That which is asserted without evidence, may be dismissed without evidence.

    • sandraleesmith46

      It isn’t INTENDED to be “logically” explained; that’s the NATURE of faith! On the other side, all human “logic” and “wisdom”, on which you’re relying, WILL show itself for the dust and ashes it truly IS, and only Godly wisdom, given by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit will stand.

      • Tony

        You and I completely agree on one thing. Belief in a god/religion/one true path depends on faith. Faith is defined as belief in something for which their is no evidence.
        I stand by my assertion that there is not a single instance of empirical evidence for the existence of god, and that therefore belief in him requires faith as defined above.
        I’m not opposed to anyone believing in a god or a religion. I object to people calling me stupid and morally corrupt because I don’t.

        • Tony

          “There” is no evidence, not “their”.
          Thanks spell check.

        • Memphis Viking

          What would you accept as “empirical evidence”? There are millions of people around the world and throughout history who could give you evidence of God’s existence. Two of the Gospels were written by men who were eyewitnesses to Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection, but you reject such evidence because you simply want to.

          • Tony

            Memphis…I don’t reject Christianity because I “want to”. I reject it for the same reason I reject Islam, Hinduism, Jainism, Animism, etc etc…..because none of them make sense.
            There is not a living soul on this planet with empirical evidence of God. Personal testimony, visions, fervent beliefs, “answered” prayers, and so-called miracles are not empirical evidence. Citing the Bible as proof that the Bible is true is called circular reasoning and is by definition illogical.
            And to address the Easter fable of death and resurrection, if you truly have an active and inquiring mind, you should acquaint yourself with the dozens of other religions and myths throughout history that feature the exact same story. Acquaint yourself with all the religions that feature a savior born of a virgin. Acquaint yourself with the other religions whose savior was born on December 25, and with those that feature a great flood, etc etc etc ad nauseum. There is nothing special about your religion except you happen to believe it. It is strikingly similar to many other religions that you strenuously reject.

          • Memphis Viking

            I’ve heard all the attempts to claim that Christianity was simply copied from other religions. Nice try. As far as the resurrection, unlike the other religions, we have eyewitness reports. You can’t disprove them, all you can do is discount them.
            By “empirical evidence” I assume you mean scientific. Most atheists who make that claim are science worshipers. The problem is demanding scientific evidence is an arbitrary requirement, and an illogical one, since God is not a scientific phenomenon. Science is the study of the natural world, and thus is unqualified to prove or disprove the supernatural.

          • Croco Dile

            One of the greatest innovations in socio-religious deception, that was to make Abraham’s descendants famous through the ages, as the inventors of that most useful weapon of authority of all times, namely State Monotheism !

            Abraham was right, when he foresaw how easy it would be for his seed to ensnare (bless) the nations of the entire world for thousands of years to come !

          • Tony

            Memphis,
            There are, indisputably, many shared themes/fables/stories between your religion and others.
            You can’t disprove this fact, all you can do is discount it.
            You and I are in complete agreement that science cannot verify the existence of supernatural entities. This is one of many reasons I don’t believe in supernatural entities.
            And again, the eyewitness accounts of the resurrection of Jesus (as opposed to the resurrection of Mithra, for instance) are the recollection of deeply superstitious people and are recorded in the Bible. Using the Bible to prove the validity of the Bible is illogical. I hear this argument frequently….”But the Bible says!” It’s like saying 2+2 = 4 because 2+2 = 4.
            If there is a person on Earth in possession of verifiable, incontrovertible proof that the Christian god exists and Jesus was his son, let that person come forward and present the proof. If and when he or she does so, I’ll eat every word I ever said about religion, renounce my atheism, and join a church.

          • Memphis Viking

            Like I said, you simply discount the Gospel accounts of Jesus’ resurrection. And I know as well as you do that your repeated demands for proof are disingenuous. You would only accept scientific proof, even though you are aware that science is incapable of providing that proof. And even if someone did provide that proof, you would find some reason to deny it.

          • Tony

            If it were proof, I couldn’t deny it.
            I’ve enjoyed our conversation.
            Thanks for keeping it civil.
            Signing off.

        • sandraleesmith46

          I’ll bet you believe in the big bang and evolution, don’t you?

          • Tony

            Yes. You win that bet.

          • sandraleesmith46

            To believe in evolution requires FAR more blind faith than I can muster, being as there is ZERO evidence for ANY evolution outside adaptive changes within species’, and even less for any sort of order arising out of a massive explosion.

    • Markee Mark

      Guess you have yet to see him revealed.
      I pray u see the light before the King of Kings rides in from heaven and first off takes us 50 iq types out of what your small mind thinks is bliss..
      Man if you knew how stupid all athieist morons sound like trying to spin out and out nasty behavior. Period.

      • Tony

        Hey Markee…
        When you are calling other people stupid, it’s best not to misspell your words. It makes you look kind of ……stupid.
        Thanks for playing.

    • Memphis Viking

      “sky-king worshipping cult” Straw man. I never see atheists accurately represent what Christians believe when they attack them. There is no absence of logic in Christian belief, you simply reject it.

  • Dale Netherton

    Connecting atheism with altruism is an argument that ignores those who are atheists and don’t subscribe to altruism. A better read “author” would recognize this distinction and not make phony arguments to discredit the rejection of a belief in that which cannot be.

    • sandraleesmith46

      Atheists never actually connect to altruism; that doesn’t fit with the hedonism that drives them, which, I believe, was his point…

      • Dale Netherton

        The new atheists are directly connected to altruism which makes their stance so inane. There is nothing moral about altruism as it stands for nothing but sacrifice. As for hedonism that too is not a morality and rational atheists reject it as well.

        • sandraleesmith46

          Altruism is sacrifice, yes, but for the BENEFIT of others, essentially the polar opposite of the hedonism of so called “atheists”. The truth is, they, like ALL humans, DO have some deity: we’re hard-wired to have someting or someone in that place in our lives, not necessarily what others would recognize as or label as a god, but it is, none-the-less, that role in their lives.

          • Dale Netherton

            Sacrifice for the sake of others has no moral stature. Which others and why others rather than the person who produces the value? There is no hard wired attribute such s you describe. That is simply another rationalization.

          • Ambas Ador

            Family, for one. In general, parents make significant sacrifices for their children even those the children product no value.

            Rosenbaum’s hatred for the family seems particularly perplexing. It is clearly just and moral for me to provide for my children even though I receive no materialist production from them in return.

        • Ambas Ador

          Sacrifice can be moral. It’s a moral sacrifice to provide for one’s family and one’s children, for example.

          The notion that altruism is somehow immoral seems to be spread mainly by anti-Christian bigots like Ayn Rosenbaum.

          • Dale Netherton

            Sacrifice is the loss of a greater value for a lessor value. One’s family and children if a greater value is not a sacrifice. You evidently haven’t read Ayn Rand.

          • Ambas Ador

            It is true that I’ve found Rosenbaum’s work to be the most boring I’ve ever laid my hands on.

          • Dale Netherton

            Since Ayn Rand created the first fully integrated philosophy the world has ever encountered, I find it intriguing you thought it boring.

          • Ambas Ador

            Rosenbaum’s supposed philosophy is nonsense. It’s basically atheistic materialism without the calls for violence espoused by Karl Marx.

            Only simple-minded fools take Rosenbaum’s pseudo-intellectual tripe seriously.

          • Dale Netherton

            You admitted you had not read Ayn Rand but you can somehow conclude she wrote about atheistic materialism which she did not. Trying to intimate people by calling them names doesn’t convince anyone that you have a coherent argument that deserves serious consideration.

          • Ambas Ador

            One doesn’t have to read her boring pseudo-intellectual tripe to understand that her philosophy is little more than a bankrupt ideology of atheistic materialism.

            That’s all pretty well documented.

          • Dale Netherton

            I suppose one would not have to read your point of view to understand it. But I suspect you expect it to be read in order to understand your viewpoint. Why consider Ayn Rand otherwise?

    • Stu Chisholm

      Seems to me that there are altruistic and non-altruistic people among all belief systems, including atheism. Empathy is not exclusive to Christians. I think the assertion here is that atheists are only atheists because they want to break Christian taboos against sex outside of marriage, etc., etc., etc. This ignores the fact that Christians all do it, too. In fact, you’re statistically more apt to stay in your marriage if you’re an atheist. And how many Christians do you know lived with their “significant other” before they got married? Maybe YOU did! How many stayed together without EVER marrying? What we’re talking about here is basic human behavior, which tends to remain constant across different religious (or non-religious) groups.

  • scrambo

    I’m with doug and the fun part will be the day every head bows and every knee bends, the creator is a gentleman about it, he gives you volition now, but on that essential day that we all long for or hope never comes, there will be no more volition…the deeds will be done and the piper will be paid…for now its a free choice…

  • Lee

    Little do Atheist know that “pi” (3.14159) derives from the latitude (31degrees, 41minutes, 59 seconds) of Jesus’s birthplace in Bethlehem. With others, especially the handwriting on the wall (Cyrus) which is recorded in History equals 2050 (7years divided by 360). Jesus died 33AD, divided by 60 minutes on the clock = 19.48 (Israel was born in 1948). Well, when we reach Heaven (the Believers) it is going to one great party….too bad they won’t be there! Happy teeth gashing…..because after death there is no mind changing then!!!

    • Tony

      Well that certainly settles it.

      Atheists also don’t know that I’m writing this at 5:49 pm, and 5+4+9 = 18.
      18 divided by 60 minutes on the clock is 0.3.
      0.3 times 33 (AD) is 9.9.
      9.9 times pi (3.14) equals 31.
      My sister is 31 and she likes wine.
      Water can be turned into wine by Jesus.
      Therefore there will be wine at a great party thrown by believers in Heaven.
      Hopefully this clears things up for all you ” morally corrupt” non-believers out there.

      • Colleen Phillips

        LOL – good one!

    • Colleen Phillips

      Wrong – atheists are totally aware of all the mathematical machinations used by people like you to try to “prove” something about the validity of the Bible. Only problem is, you can do the same thing with any text. Sorry – no cigar for you, Lee, not this time.

    • Stu Chisholm

      Even your own bible states that there is nothing beyond death.

      Ecclesiastes 3-10:
      3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
      4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
      5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
      6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
      7 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.
      8 Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment.
      9 Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun.
      10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

      Naturally, other parts of the bible babble about an afterlife, totally contradicting this bit of insight. No surprise; the bible is anything but consistent.

      • Croco Dile

        To some of the believers I write the following (but most don’t understand, what a surprise…) :

        Through the Jesus character the rulers are talking to YOU (them) :

        He answered, To you [the rulers] it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven [Cosmos], but to them [YOU] it has not been given. The reason I speak to them [YOU] in parables is that “seeing they [YOU] do not perceive, and hearing they [YOU] do not listen, nor do they [YOU] understand.” – Matthew 13:11,13

      • Wes

        “Naturally, other parts of the bible babble about an afterlife, totally contradicting this bit of insight.”

        Ecclesiastes is an autobiography written by a son of David basically full of postmodern angst (to use an anachronistic term) about the human condition and the search for meaning. It’s no wonder then that he contradicts himself in parts, people change their minds and philosophies all the time. He calls everything meaningless, which clearly none of the Septuagint or Gospel writers agree with. I notice that you call this book “insight” and call the rest of the scripture “babble”, but it’s actually the other way around.

        Indeed, the writer doesn’t end with the belief that everything is meaningless (hevel). Rather, the book concludes: “Fear God, and keep his commandments; for that is the whole duty of everyone” (12:13).

        • Stu Chisholm

          Au contraire; I think that there is much wisdom contained in the bible! After all, it’s a compendium of borrowed mythology/philosophy from many different written and oral traditions/accounts from many different cultures, with just a dash of originality tossed-in on some very rare occasions. Not to mention some poetry and songs for good measure. I think that Ecclesiastes is some of the clearest-thinking and most rational part of Hebrew scripture for it’s time. That ending line doesn’t negate what was previously said by any stretch of the imagination (or semantics).

          • Wes

            I think the ending line does indeed contradict what was previously said in Ecclesiastes. If everything is meaningless, why would the writer be advising others at all, much less ordering that they fear God and keep God’s commandments as a universal duty? That implies a lot of philosophical and moral content that clearly indicates a worldview in which everything is NOT meaningless.

          • Stu Chisholm

            This is why there are disputes about “interpretation.” As I see it, that last line isn’t saying, “disregard what I just said — I take it all back.” It’s saying that, in addition to the above, one has a duty to adhere to our [their] traditions. After all, if you make your deity mad and he smites you, then it’s difficult to “eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart.” :)

          • Wes

            Haha well I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree about Ecclesiastes!

  • David S.

    As a Christian, I respect the rights of others to have their own beliefs. I ask they return the favor. You got to love the First Amendment (freedom of religion, among others). To each their own.

    • Stu Chisholm

      Me, too. I’m sure you’d have taken exception if you opened up your Daily Clash looking for pro-freedom, pro-gun, pro-American inspiration only to see an article bashing Christianity, right? Yet it’s OK to bag on conservative & libertarian Atheists, I guess.

      • Croco Dile

        It seems you are new on this site :-)
        It’s always like you say….

  • jubilee

    THIS guy looks COMPLETELY STONED either on OPIUM or some some strong POT. Of course, its MEN who pretend to be ATHEIST.. (women tend to go into weird religions) i haven’t YET seen a Women really trying to push the ATHEIST WAR.
    then again: i’ve heard MANY of the the 19th century so-called atheists wanted to have no holds barred SEX and were trying to sear their conscience THEY KNEW THE GOD OF THE BIBLE WAS REAL. Didn’t marx have a bunch of kids, didn’t marry their mother, and threw his children in an orphanage?

    • Colleen Phillips

      Ever hear of Madalyn Murray O’Hair, the founder of American Atheists? Ever hear of Ayn Rand, the author of Atlas Shrugged and creator of the atheistic philosophy of Objectivism?
      You are clearly uninformed and sexist and you try to make up for that by using way too many caps.
      Newsflash: Your strategy is not working.

  • sandraleesmith46

    They’d all make GREAT Muslims! That’s what they believe too, at least the men: no accountability, just 72 virgins! Blame the wives and kids and infidels for all weaknesses and failures!
    Humans really haven’t changed fundamentally in 10,000 years, so why the surprise? ONLY the action of God on a human heart makes any real change in our natures, and He never forces that, even to save a soul, for the loss of every soul that opts for such judgment and the hell to follow hurts His heart!

  • tpb0918

    Doug;

    Would you agree that an atheist understands how you think and believe at least as well as you understand him?

    All you’ve done here is set up a series of straw men with pre-defeated attitudes that you then proceed to knock down. Insulting, but hardly convincing.

    • Colleen Phillips

      First, Doug would not agree that an atheist would understand how he thinks and believes, because he believes that “spiritual things are spiritually discerned.” He would never give an atheist that much credit.
      Second, as for the “straw man” arguments, you are right on. Doug needs a lesson in logical fallacies. His article here is all about anger and sarcasm, and nothing about logic or reason. Bad form, Doug!

  • josafa

    The Bible states that there is not such thing as an “atheist” as God has made Himself know to all through Him writing His Laws on the hearts of all. These “atheists” are really just agnostics – they do not want to obey God, that’s all. An honest atheist in Ray Comfort’s witnessing clip said that he “doesn’t want God telling him what to do”. That is the real motive of atheists. There is no need to be scared of atheists at all – they are deceive themselves by saying there is no God. It is not the intelligent lawyer, scholarly scientist, philosopher or mathematician who is a fool, it is the one has hath said in his heart that there is no God.

  • Hans Heinreich

    Writes the slave of a xenophobic, racist, sexist and jewish hatemonger and doomster called Jesus, who would kill all christians, because they are no jews and Jesus only loved jews. Writes the slave of a religion, which spread through rape, holy war, extinction of foreign religions, peoples and cultures, genocide and forced conversion. And the slave is too stupid and illiterate to undestand the perfect comparison between opiumand religion. That is so funny.

    Christians – illiterate, ignorant and inhuman pseudo-human beings

    • Memphis Viking

      Funny how you say such things about Christians when you clearly know nothing about Christianity.

    • Colleen Phillips

      Wow, Hans – who is the “hatemonger” here? Bitter and raging much?
      Definition “illiterate:” “Unable to read or write.”
      Pot – meet Kettle. Your writing skills are sadly deficient.
      I would hardly know where to begin. How did you manage to make so many errors in one short paragraph?
      Obviously, you are projecting your own traits on Christians.
      “That is so funny.” You are describing yourself, Hansy Boy!

      • Croco Dile

        But he is right in one thing – Jesus said he came only for the Jews.

        And something else more :

        The new religion assured everlasting felicity in its heaven to all who would just believe; it threatened eternal torment in the fires of its hell for all who would not believe and accept it.

        Under the spell of these promises and threats and of the assurance of a quick end of the earth, the propagandists of the cult promptly established a strange new scheme of which they were the administrators – a scheme of pure Communism. As the world would quickly come to an end, there was no reason and no need to take heed of temporal affairs; they must all watch and pray and pool all their poor belongings in their leaders’ hands for the common benefit. This the trembling and zealous proselytes did,under the sanction of supreme fear: “Neither was any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the price of the things that were sold, and they laid them down at the Apostles’ feet; and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need” (Acts iv, 34, 35).

        • Memphis Viking

          Jesus said He came for the Jews, but he sent his disciples out to everyone.

          • Croco Dile

            True.
            The New Testament was a work in progress…..

    • sandraleesmith46

      Wow, did YOU miss a LOT in the Bible, and about Jesus in particular! In the book of the prophet Ezekiel, God speaks PLAINLY of bringing into the fold various groups of Gentiles, under the rulership of Jesus, so that notion of yours that Jesus would reject us for not being Jews holds no water; the OT shows the plan clearly, BEFORE it began to unfold. As for the rest of that blatant lie, Jesus did NOT instruct His followers to spread Faith in that manner: HUMANS did that on their own, out of lust for power, claiming it to be in His name, but acting in ways that clearly show they were NOT His followers. Since you have no understanding of the Word of God, and are not indwelt by His Holy Spirit, you, like most, have no means to discern and therefore lump nonbelieving pew warmers with those who actually follow His Way.

    • Wes

      Good one, Hans, you fool. Where did you get that little tirade, “Christians are evil dot com”? At LEAST read the Bible before you decide that you know all there is to know about Jesus and make such serious allegations. Seriously, you’re just embarrassing yourself. Do a little reading first. What are you, 12?

    • Ambas Ador

      One cannot be enslaved by Christianity any more than one can be enslaved by gravity.

    • Sandy

      Hans, you sound EXACTLY like the professor in “GOD is Not Dead” who gets rhetorically beeotch-slapped by a kid in the class….maybe you should see it and find out what you are so angry about….might help.

  • Substance22

    I’ve never understood the need of atheists, who by definition believe in nothing spiritual, to attempt to undermine and ridicule faith. Looking at motives, the reason most believers share their faith is to inform others and to keep them from an eternity of pain and separation from God. Basically, love of their fellow man. The reason atheists try to undermine faith is what? Hate? Resentment? They show so much bitterness.

    • Colleen Phillips

      This is true – some atheists are like that – bitter and angry, and not the least bit tolerant of people who don’t see things their way. As a former Christian and current agnostic, I don’t understand it either. Everyone should be free to believe as they see fit, and not be harassed and attacked continually by those who disagree.
      Where I live, that sort of thing doesn’t go over well. A hostile atheist group came into my community thinking they could intimidate the schools into canceling their Christmas programs, which have Christian content. The Superintendent told them to take a hike. They threatened to sue, and the Superintendent told them to bring it on. That was the last we heard from them.
      Every Christmas season, a lovely Nativity Scene is constructed right on the front lawn of our City Hall – I’m just waiting for that to be challenged one of these days, but here in the Bible Belt, people will not go down without a fight.
      The only holiday greeting you hear around these parts is “Merry Christmas!” and a common year round good-bye expression is “Have a blessed day!”
      Also, we pull off the road out of respect when we see a funeral procession, and we address people as “Sir” and “Ma’am.”
      And no one is harmed in any way by these niceties.

    • Stu Chisholm

      Maybe it’s because nobody will leave us alone and we keep getting blindsided by articles like this one. Don’t blame the bear for biting you if you poke him with a stick.

      • sandraleesmith46

        Blindsided? The title was quite clearly a play on the title of a work written by Sigmund Freud, which describes religion as the opiate of the masses, taken from a comment made by Karl Marx. It couldn’t blindside Helen Keller! And no one forced you to read it!

        • Ben Name

          Or was it the band that the author is referring to?

          • sandraleesmith46

            What band? Sorry, I only listen to real music, not modern “amusic”.

          • Ben Name

            The band is called Opiate for the Masses.

            Why do you have to be so condescending with your response?

        • Stu Chisholm

          So you’re okay if, say, Guns & Ammo wrote articles bashing Catholics or Baptists as long as they put it’s title on the cover? Seriously?

          • sandraleesmith46

            Depending on what specifically said theoretical article chose to “bash” about either institution, I might even be found in agreement with the position taken, but even if not, I would support the First Amendment right to post it, as stated in the Constitution I swore to uphold and defend, decades ago. If I find the position offensive I then have that same right to so state with my reasons why, wirhout whining that I “didn’t expect”such an article!

          • Stu Chisholm

            Non-sequitur; you’d be angry if you went to a steak house and all they had was seafood; you’d be angry if you bought tickets to see Jimmy Buffet and had them replaced with N.W.A., and you’d be REALLY mad if the box brought your computer home in didn’t contain a computer, but a brick. THAT is my issue. Stick with the 2nd Amendment and anti-constutiton politics and save the preaching for Sunday… and those who WANT it.

          • sandraleesmith46

            Absurd! Youre listing criminal acts, false advertizing and theft, neither of which exists here! That you apparently made an assumption that Doug is only about 2nd Amendment and gun issues is YOUR problem! He hasn’t been that restrictive in his concerns in the years I’ve been following his site. If you want a site that sticks only to gun related issues, try Second Amendment Foundation, they haven’t strayed from gun issues since I’ve followed them. This article is NOT atypical of Doug’s offerings over the past several years.

          • Stu Chisholm

            Well, we can agree on the “absurd” part! And did you notice where I mentioned “conservative politics” after 2nd Amendment? No. If this is typical for Doug, then he needs to be called out on his bullshit. Because this IS bullshit.

    • Ben Name

      Sounds like brain washing to me.

    • Ambas Ador

      Reactionary hatred for Christianity, first and foremost. In their reactionary war against civilization, today’s liberals use three main attack vectors:-Attacking the family-Attacking private property-Attacking Christianity

  • Sandy

    Goog article, Doug, and there is only one question to ask atheists…if there is no GOD, then there is no sin, so everything goes, right? From where does the atheists’ morality originate?

    • Ben Name

      I know. How can people act good or bad without God as a reference point? It boggles the mind.

      • Sandy

        yep…and most of these atheists keep pointing to the Old Testament – it’s Old for a reason….the teachings for life are in the New Testament. As for the Old, GOD had to start somewhere like basic sanitation and what to eat and not eat, etc…akin to boot camp, for an over-simplification….

        • Ben Name

          To bad for those Jews huh? Old Testament followers!

          • Sandy

            well…it’s different…

          • Ben Name

            Different? What do you mean? I though you were saying it was outdated and irrelevant?

          • Sandy

            much of it is; that said, I am not a student of the Torah, so I can’t answer that….

          • Ben Name

            But didn’t you already when you said it’s like learning how to bathe or eat? You know comparing it to nearly the things that are inherit in everyone? That’s why I’m confused.

          • Jimbo Jenkins

            What about the parts in the Old Testament about gay sodomy marriage? Are those verses irrelevant too? Will they be some day? How do you know? I just want to go to heaven. These shifting rules confuse me.

      • Jimbo Jenkins

        Great point. Even Islamic fundamentalists have a “god”–think of how much worse off they’d be without a reference point to guide them. Crazy, man.

        • Ben Name

          Wow, could they get much lower? I mean everyone here says muslims are already godless, mindless sacks of poop bent on destroying us all because they have no self worth.

          • Jimbo Jenkins

            That’s my point–they COULD be lower, they COULD be atheists. You need that reference point.

    • Ambas Ador

      If there were no God, there would be no atheists.

      • Sandy

        it is their “religion”….

    • Jon Kahr

      Sandy:

      Solzhenitsyn’s opinions on the matter are well worth perusing as well:
      http://www.roca.org/OA/36/36h.htm

      • Sandy

        good article Jon…thanks for sharing! Passing it to my wife and son and to our group at church…cheers… mcleanbible.org

        • Jon Kahr

          While we’re no where near the complete societal and moral collapse that engulfed Russia a century ago, there are plenty of similarities in the culture that do have to considered and, as such, the Russian experience has many lessons to offer, IMO.

          There’s also a guy named Igor Shafarevich who is worth looking up. He wrote an essay entitled Socialism In Our Past and Future that touches on some of the same themes as Solzhenitsyn. You can find that essay online.

  • Ambas Ador

    For whatever reason, folks tend to forget that the forces of evil are just as real as the forces of gravity and electricity.

    • Jimbo Jenkins

      Totally agree. Evil is just a BIT harder to measure than, say, electricity. I use a scale: Stealing is a 6. Murder is a 10. Coveting is like a 5. But sodomy marriage has gotta be a 9, at least.

  • Bitter Cold

    Since liberty unleashes the knowledge of millions of free people, free countries are able to use far more knowledge than socialist systems.

  • Jon Kahr

    Solzhenitsyn’s eternal advice on the matter seems wise to heed:
    http://www.roca.org/OA/36/36h.htm

  • dunc m

    woooooow!! riviting .gave me goosebumps. led me to the pastures of the profound,i had no idea doug.i stumbled on your letter .a new fan i am. yuup..?? there is no meaning in (I AM) goosebumps or the completely irrational infusion of LOVE for another mindful individual..thanks,,a keeper for the profound file..

  • sweetqueen777

    You are totally correct. Every athiest I have ever known arrogantly believes they truly are more intelligent than us believers. If I did not believe in something more important than MYSELF, why bother with anything. If this is ALL there is, why not just kill myself now, as there is no reason to continue with this pointless existence. Thank you, LORD, for placing me with loving, GODLY parents, in the best country on Earth.

    • Russell Smith

      I don’t believe that. I believe that we have come to different conclusions through the same data, much as two machines (for we are quantum computers inside our skulls) can weigh probabilities and produce two different answers for the same values. You look at the world and see the work of a powerful creator. I look at the world and see a triumph of natural law at work. You see the Higgs Boson and see the fingerprints of an all-knowing creator who binds the universe together through an imperceptible particle that generates mass and thus gravity. I see the Higgs Boson and see a tiny particle capable of deforming space-time and giving a skeleton to the nascent universe. You look at stars and see these powerful nuclear engines lit by an all-powerful father in the furthest reaches of space for us to marvel at and study, or just to admire on clear nights. I look at stars and am dazzled at the enormous distances between them and wonder which ones still burn even though we can see their light. I do not call your conclusion erroneous. I simply don’t share it. We are not the boogiemen. Our brains work exactly the same, our hearts beat exactly the same, and we both find life to be utterly precious. You because humans are a reflection of the might, wisdom, and justice of God, and I because this is the only place in the universe one might find them.

    • Erin Ashley Hedges

      Oh that’s just hilarious. I have gotten the exact same reaction from every single christian I have ever had a conversation with on the subject of religion.

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