You Can Be A Christian Or A Liberal, But Not Both

Can a Christian be a liberal? Short answer: no. There is no way a Christian can buy into progressive/big government ideology and be faithful to the bigger-than-Dallas teachings of Scripture and expect to continue enjoying his hard-won religious liberties.

For the “Christian” to lean politically to the left means that he must blow off huge chunks of the Bible and replace Scripture with the make-believe notions of PC’s malleable “Christ.” Only after torturing Scripture can the Christian then fit current liberalism into his supposed relationship with God.

For the Christian who believes that unfeigned faith in Christ should correspond with Jesus’ high view of Scripture, it is impossible to believe in God and be an adherent to this schlock.

Liberalism has been hijacked by bizarre special-interest thugs who defy the Word of God and believe that the Bible has no place in public life (except maybe in a museum where people can look at it from time to time).

The Christian skipping around the maypole wearing his rose-colored glasses who has a bent to the liberal left needs to understand something: If it were left up to the modern, secularized liberal establishment, Christians would be more restricted than Bill when Hillary’s in town. If the Christophobic thugs had it their way, Christians would be relegated to a marginalized spiritual ghetto on the sidelines of life.

For the naive Christian voter who thinks he can toss a ballot in the progressive direction, please know that a vote toward the secular left could leave you bereft of sacred liberties. Thanks to the aggressive and ludicrous liberal lug nuts’ anti-Christian agenda, your vote for a leftist is a vote for:

1. Christianity to be scrubbed from government and whatever turf the government owns. Thanks to the liberals, the Ten Commandments have about as much acceptance in our government and their properties as Rush Limbaugh would at Sandra Fluke’s family reunion. The Judeo-Christian principles that formed the rock-solid foundation of this great American Experiment are now aggressively and consistently attacked by the lascivious left.

If . . . if . . . the secularists continue to stay behind the wheel of this American bus, you can kiss all semblance of Christianity good-bye in this heretofore God-graced government. Saint, you might as well say farewell to our government’s recognizing Christmas and adios to Good Friday if you’re going to vote the liberal ticket. If the secularists have it their way, Easter will be behind your keister, and you can kiss the Cross good-night as an acceptable public symbol that represents your faith and our nation’s recognition of Christ’s atoning work.

2. Secularism to be continually mainlined into our public school system. Thanks to rabid, vapid secularism, our public schools and universities would rather you be a Rocky Horror super freak than a Christian. If your beliefs run to the bizarre or the banal or if you want to smoke the same philosophical crack that Caligula, Nero, Castro or Lenin freebased, they’ll accommodate you.

Our schools are totally open to anyone and to anything, unless, of course, you’re a Christian. And if that’s the case, then you’re likely to get more sympathy from a badger with minimal sleep than you will from liberal educators who are hard at work making your life hard. Let me repeat: A vote for the secular left is a vote for Christianity to continue to be officially vilified on campus and for Christians to be ostracized in campus life.

3. Public officials, employees and appointees to be pressured to hide their faith in the closet and suppress their public displays of belief in God lest they be grouped with Hitler, Osama, or Mussolini and then fired. Not only will the liberals aggressively work to prohibit the State from green lighting and recognizing Christianity as a legitimate and positive force in our land, they will also attempt to stifle Christians from influencing the path of government.

4. Public attacks on churches and Christians and attempts to restrict them in the private sector. Consider this, Christian pastor and Christian lay person looking to vote for the ludicrous left: The secular Mafioso’s intent is to make your ministerial life difficult, your evangelistic work taxing and your voice minimized.

5. The continued media endorsement of the same putrid, hedonistic stuff that sunk ancient civilizations. With the liberals in place, expect more weird crap in movies and on television. Expect to see more paintings of Christian symbols and saints smeared with elephant dung. Expect Christianity to be bashed and vilified and Christians made out to be buckled-shoed morons with three teeth and an IQ of 50. Expect the culture to coarsen. Expect your kids to continue to be exposed to things that only rock stars see backstage with groupies. A vote for a liberal is a vote to see Christians continue to receive special ridicule and be flogged more than a piñata during a Cinco de Mayo festival.

Modern liberalism tosses out Scripture on several different levels. How a true believer in the Christ defined by Scripture can buy into what Jesus, the prophets and apostles said and also give credence to what these secular goons say is beyond me. In addition to liberalism’s obvious and odious pro-Holocaust-like abortion stance, its anti-biblical view of marriage, its Scripture-slamming, aggressive secularism, and its feckless view of our nation’s defense, liberalism completely clashes with the Christian worldview. Progressivism’s aggressive desire to eradicate Christians’ rights should cause Christians to be concerned.

The Democratic Party’s liberalism has degenerated over the last 40-50 years in regard to its view of Christianity and Christian rights. This party, which formerly embraced and protected our nation’s great Christian heritage and teachings no longer does so. Thus, today the Christian is between a rock and a hard place: He can either be a Christian or a liberal—but he cannot be both.

About the author: Doug Giles

Doug Giles is the Big Dawg at ClashDaily.com and the Co-Owner of The Safari Cigar Company. Follow him on Facebook and Twitter. And check out his new book, Rise, Kill and Eat: A Theology of Hunting from Genesis to Revelation.

View all articles by Doug Giles
  • heather

    giles is smart and handsome!

  • Abby

    The lines are clear…there is no way it is possible to hold such antithetical views to the mandates in the scriptures and still try to say you are a follower of Christ. Making up a God in their own image is more like it. Re-defining Him is typical of progressives and of course as the author stated in an earlier article the real problem is ignorance of the Bible.

    • Ares

      Everyone uses the bible how they see fit and never completely. Go read Leviticus over and tell me how many of those laws you ACTUALLY follow, since apparently “mankind shall not lie with mankind”, is so relevant to today yet the other hundreds of laws are irrelevant. Hypocrite.

      • YDDemocrat

        Ares, it seems the Republicans may be “Selective Christians”… Leviticus says not to plant two different crops in your field… not to wear blended fabrics… don’t play football (well… not in those words but, no touching a dead pig)… no tattoos or piercings… it is OK to own a slave if the person is from a neighboring country… but all of that said… We live under a New Covenant now. That was the Old Covenant…

    • YDDemocrat

      Hmmm… I never heard a liberal say we were going to the Middle East and blow ‘em away in the name of the Lord… got some sad news for you Abby… this liberal has studied the Bible, read the entire Bible, several versions, several times, including the watered down KJV… . I have read many of the books that were not considered divinely inspired, Love thy neighbor as thyself is in every version of the New Testament in some form and that is what the Conservatives do not do. I fail many times and admit it, but it seems your group do not want to admit your failures, just blame them on someone who is trying to destroy your way of life in your delusional way of thinking.

    • http://www.facebook.com/michelle.jennette Michelle Jennette

      Which “Version” of the bible are you speaking of. The one King James dictated, or the one before that, or the one that was handed down by Word of Mouth for centuries….. the one they left out many ‘stories’ that the Powers at the time decided “they” didn’t want in the Holy Bible???? Ignorance……I agree!

  • Steven V

    Oh, Doug, you’ve got me riled up.

    Because the left doesn’t want to acknowledge a higher power, they want to get rid of Judeo-Christian God, not Mohammad, not Budha, not any other “diety” just the one they know deep down in their darkest fears will judge them one day. I pose a question, why do the left want everyone to coexist

    http://randomviewpoints.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/coexist1.jpg

    Because they are trying to convince themselves and others that no God exists.

    By putting our God, in the same category as other religion’s gods, he becomes just another god in some make believe book that crazy people follow blindly. If they acknowledge that our God is real, and what the bible says is true, that he will come again one day and judge everyone for their actions, they will have to answer for their actions.

    John 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

    Doug, I think you missed a very big point, so

    .6 Continued tax payer money funded rehabilitation based correctional facilities. The left believes that everyone can be fixed, that no one should be truly punished for their crimes, (they want to punish innocent people for criminal’s crimes, i.e. Gun Control). If they sit in a room and talk about why they did murder, or arson, or theft, they will suddenly be cured of the mental illness that they suffer from. If they can pass the blame to the criminal’s parents, who didn’t breast feed them, or because their parents tried to punish them as a child, they suffer from a sickness, not guilty of any wrong doing. The left wants everyone to believe that everyone is inherently good, but the Bible says we all have sinned, we don’t have the ability to not sin.

    • http://www.mistysplace.org Michael Powe

      God will judge you in the same way that you judge us. His Grace is extended into the world through the actions of men; and as you refuse his Grace, it will be refused you. “Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get.” Matt. 7:1-2

  • MrModerateAZ

    “torturing Scripture” is exactly the point. I call ‘em his-story books of a time when very little was known about the world we live in and to speak against the irrational ideas purported as “holy” would end up getting you stoned to death for heresy. It can be very easy and must be a relief to many in their busy modern age to forget about the 1700 years of complete control the church exerted on average, uneducated peasants all in the name of some unrealized salvation. I can’t tell you to spend more time reading natural history; however, if you do, you will realize that our occupation of this small slice of the Holocene Epoch is but a blink of an eye and one’s misguided reliance on a “new and improved” illusion that is modern American Christianity is just that, an illusion. Life is all you get, which is fine, ’cause then you live for yourself, your family, your friends, and your country without the need to rally around the untruth that is religion. Everything would still be ok without putting “God Bless” in front of everything, but of course, habits are hard to break. I’ll be waiting…

    • Joris Heise

      I recommend reading Babylon by Frank Kriwaczek to appreciate the ignorance you display here. It is humbling to realize how far back we go as “civilized.” The “Church” had no such control, though under Pope Boniface VIII, it tried to. And look what happened to it. Incidentally, I love Scientific American and its huge appreciation of archeology and really ancient history. Try reading that for some humility. I believe in a God who is perhaps as chthonic as transcendental. I believe real atheists need to be atheists to be good human beings. (I think Gore Vidal was great!) i believe that Christianity (like every human institution) distorts itself into a pretzel that winds up saying the opposite of its true intent. Just don’t condemn everybody, that ain’t nice.

      • MrModerateAZ

        Who is condemning everybody? I think my condemnations are pretty selective, and I’ll be sure to pick up a copy of Babylon, it’s been on my list for some time. It’s Paul Kriwaczek btw. I was referring to Constantine’s conversion and the slide into the Dark Ages, so I’m off by a couple hundred years more or less (I use Christianity as an example because that’s my personal experience (not Jewish, Muslim, Wiccan, w/ever, etc). I guess if I were an atheist in Malaysia, I’d be ragging on the Koran and its failings (what is this Halal? I can’t even get a good Martini around here, ha!). Relative to Babylon, pre-christian civilizations also exerted social control through supernatural suppositions and also killed heretics, so it has continued t/out “civilization”. It sounds like you are a convenient Christian though, painting your god as transcendental (so mysterious isn’t it?) and cherry-picking the things that your lizard brain (no offense) can deal with rationally or sort-of spiritually (it does feels good though), whilst throwing all of the other biblical crazy talk into the “it’s not supposed to be literal” dustbin?

  • tr60

    Didn’t Jesus say, “Judge not, least ye be judged”?

  • juliesdogs

    Jesus must not have been a Christian then.

    • Ares

      Apparently. He would likely be against the death penalty, against war, and for social welfare programs, and taxing the hell out of the rich.

      • luzmark1

        Like he was for rich man Abraham ,Joseph, Job, David, Solomon, Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathaea those bad rich men, some who fought the enemy in the righteousness of God. Have a good day!

        • windel

          You forgot about Saul, and other examples of evil rich men…

          But I guess they don’t fit into your bible…

        • http://www.facebook.com/jarryn.shaffner Jarryn Shaffner

          those men all had generosity, and whose enemy? I dont believe god has any legitimate enemies, also who are we to say anything about gods will? the bible is history and prophecy, mentions nothing about the modern. infering from the bible though, I realise that god must trancend party lines

      • jgtbh

        They need to be taxed if they want to get to Heaven….it’s easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God…You cannot serve both God and Money…

        • Silent Political Yeoman

          That “camel through the eye of a needle” analogy referred to one of the gates of Jerusalem. The entrance is so small that merchants with camels had to unload the camel completely in order to get them through the gate if they were entering Jerusalem on that side. That’s why that particular entrance was sometimes called the “Eye of the Needle.”

    • MindyE

      He wasn’t. Jesus was Jewish.

      • Jennifer from North Alabama

        Yes, Jesus was a Jew – a liberal one at that!!

      • Crissy

        Umm yes he was!!!

    • Crissy

      AMEN! He was a progressive liberal… Are we not supposed to be Christ like?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1314740521 Patrick Munsch

        yes we are suppose to be Christ like, no Jesus wasn’t a progressive liberal that wants to steel a persons hard earned money and give it to someone else, or kill an unborn child because its a “disease” not a child, or depend on the federal government to fix every thing., He’s a PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, INDIVIDUALS HELPING OTHERS WITHIN THEIR OWN ABILITY TO DO SO, STANDING UP FOR BIBLICAL TRUTH NO MATTER HOW UNPOPULAR IT IS, AND TRUSTING IN GOD THE FATHER FOR EVERYTHING INDIVIDUAL. And that is as far from progressive liberalism as you can get.

        • Melissa

          Oh honey…you are so hate-filled and closed-minded. And the worst thing of all is that you don’t know Jesus Christ at all. I feel so very sorry for you. I will pray for God to enlighten your life so that you can let go of all this hatred and prejudice that so clearly consumes you. It’s sad that you’re wasting your life hating when it’s so much easier to live your life loving.

          • glen

            Enlighten us Melissa – How was Jesus not as Patrick described him. Chapter and Verse Please.

          • JJ

            Interestingly, the author of the article also fails to provide any references to scripture to support the claims made in the article. :-)

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeremy-Gilbert/1120302142 Jeremy Gilbert

            How about just read all the Gospels .. that might help?

        • Matriarch

          Jesus said ‘judge not lest your father in heaven also judge you.’ Jesus told rich people to give away all their goods, give their money to the poor and live in poverty. Jesus said a rich man will have an exceedingly hard time getting into the kingdom of heaven. Jesus definitely was not big on national defense — he recommended turning ‘the other cheek’ and loving one’s enemies. Not a sterling recommendation for a big defense budget. As for abortion, it wasn’t an issue. Unborn children weren’t considered people under Jewish law, but might be property depending on the stage of pregnancy. As for ‘personal responsibility’ … no. Jesus told his followers to care for each other, feed the poor, clothe the destitute, visit and befriend prisoners. I’m sorry you’re so angry and that you feel that liberals want to steal your money to give to someone else. But Jesus told his followers to pay their taxes. And trust me, taxes weren’t used to help establish a good business climate in those days. Maybe it’s time to get your picture of our Lord from the Bible, not from Fox News or your pastor.

          • SilverHairedSaint

            Why do most people quote Matthew 7:1 and not verse 2? We are definitely to judge, not the person, but the action. Verse 2 says we will be judged using the same measure we use to judge. That is fine by me. If I judge your ACTIONS by the standards laid out in the Bible, then I will be judged by that same Bible. So, if I live my life according to those standards all is good. God’s Word is the same today as He was yesterday and will be forever. This gives a solid unchanging system of law to live and be judged by. I would hate to be judged by the world standards which change from day to day and place to place. One can never be sure footed since what was good yesterday might be bad tomorrow, and the rules can change willy-nilly. That is an impossible standard to live by.
            Now for those who will correct me with regard to salvation; one cannot work their way into Heaven. The only way into Heaven is through Jesus the Christ, but that is not what Matthew 7: 1-2 are talking about.
            Those who do not know God’s Word like to use their little buzz phrases, a verse here and there taken out of context and twisted into meaning something other than what it really means. We will all be held accountable for our actions.

          • Josie

            “If I live my life according to those standards all is good.”
            “One cannot work their way into heaven.”
            Seems more than a little contradictory and illogical, pretty much a hallmark of the Christian right. If you don’t like Matthew 7:1, how about Romans 2:1: “Therefore you have no excuse, whoever you are, when you judge others, for in passing judgement on another, you condemn yourself, for you, the judge, are doing the very same things.” Don’t judge people because they sin differently than you do. All have sinned and fallen short…
            As a committed liberal Christian–who grew up fundamentalist and saw the hatred and bigotry firsthand–I’m pretty sure Jesus’ main message was to love others, care for the poor, oppressed and disadvantaged, and leave the judging in God’s capable hands.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_W5PYVKQUEKIWMA7HZNTBKV7HN4 Mayme

            I hate to tell you but the Old Testament is not the New Testament and the teachings are different. So was God wrong in the Old Testament or is she wrong in the New Testament?

          • LibertysSon

            The Cross changed everyting. The Law of Judgement was fulfilled and replaced with the Law of Grace. There was now a “New Covenant” between man and God.

          • LibertysSon

            The Cross changed everyting. The Law of Judgement was fulfilled and replaced with the Law of Grace. There was now a “New Covenant” between man and God.

          • LibertysSon

            The Cross changed everyting. The Law of Judgement was fulfilled and replaced with the Law of Grace. There was now a “New Covenant” between man and God.

          • windel

            Jesus was trying to warn you not to judge others…

            Wichtever way you choose to justify this, you WILL be judged – and you will not like His verdict – regardless of how self-righteous you are

          • LibertysSon

            Scripture says, None are righteous, none are without blame. All are sinners and fall short. All sin will be judged by God. But the Good News is that Christ has paid the price for our sins and now if one be in Christ, the Father does not see your sin. He sees you as blameless.

            Here is a short history lesson. In Judea at the time Jesus lived the justice and prison sysem was primitive. If ,say, I was caught stealing a goat I would be arrested , go before a Judge and then be sentenced to imprisonment for my crime.

            In those days prisons were basically dungeon like caves with a large studded wooden door guarded by a soldier.

            I would be thrown into the cave and a parchment with my name , charge and sentence would be nailed to the door. A rather primitive filing system but it worked

            . Food and water would be tossed in daily and the prisoners would have to fend for themselves.

            Let’s just say my sentence for goat stealing was one year. After a year the guard would open the dungeon door, call out my name and, if I was still alive, he would take down my parchment and stamp on it with red ink, the word “Tetelestai” .
            The guard would then roll it up and give to me to keep.
            The word Tetelestai was Aramaic for “Paid in Full.”

            Why is this important? Well, say someone saw me on the street and said ” There’s John that thief, Why isn’t he in Jail? I could then unroll my parchment and show them that I had paid the price for my crime. I was a free man according to the law.
            Fast forward to Cavary and Jesus on the Cross. Just before Jesus died, he spoke with the Father. King James translated the word he spoke from Greek as “It is Finished” That’s pretty close, but what Christ really uttered in Aramaic as his last word was, “Tetelestai” or “Paid in Full”
            Jesus was precisely telling the Father that he had fulfilled the Law and paid for all of our sins.The slate was wiped clean! So there we are. Hold out your hands and take that gift of pardon. You will never regret it.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_W5PYVKQUEKIWMA7HZNTBKV7HN4 Mayme

            Thank you. This is how I remember Christ’s teachings.

          • Marsha

            Jesus also said ‘If you don’t work, you don’t eat’

          • bearzee

            No, that was Paul in Ephesians. You need to read these:
            Luke 3:11, Acts 2:44-45: 2
            Samuel 12:1-5, Matthew 19:24, Matthew 5:1-11, Acts 4:32-35, Luke 7, Mark
            10:17-23, Romans 13:6-7, 1 John 3:17, Leviticus
            25:35, Isaiah
            10: 1-2, Amos 8:4-8, James 5:1-5, James 3:14-18, James 2:1-9, James
            1:9-11, Proverbs
            22:16, 22-23, Isaiah 3 13-15. Ezek. 16:49ff 2 Corinthians 8:13-15

            Galatians 5:13-15, Genesis 41:33-48, 1 Corinthians 10:24Actually, your comment shows you know nothing about the Bible.

          • Januslee

            Helping others is done by individuals giving to those in need…not to the government who spends it recklessly.

          • LibertysSon

            Turning the other cheek was in reference to an insult or slap. He was trying to teach longsuffering and patience to the believers. He wanted believers to not answer anger with anger.
            It doesn’t apply to someone who is trying to kill you. All men have the God given right of self defense in that case.
            Jesus’s commands to feed the poor was an indiviual command for believers to help the needy through Agape love. It was a request for voluntary Charity from the Church and individual believers..
            It was not a command to form a government and take money by force from one person and give it to another.

          • LibertysSon

            Turning the other cheek was in reference to an insult or slap. He was trying to teach longsuffering and patience to the believers. He wanted believers to not answer anger with anger.
            It doesn’t apply to someone who is trying to kill you. All men have the God given right of self defense in that case.
            Jesus’s commands to feed the poor was an indiviual command for believers to help the needy through Agape love. It was a request for voluntary Charity from the Church and individual believers..
            It was not a command to form a government and take money by force from one person and give it to another.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeremy-Gilbert/1120302142 Jeremy Gilbert

          Yeah of course Jesus wasn’t progressive… i mean that’s why so many of the Jews wanted to kill him… because he DIDN’T want to change anything… right? Or do I have it all wrong?
          Btw… did Jesus not say something along the lines of “give back to Caesar what is his?”…. you know, pay your taxes?

          • http://www.facebook.com/julia.wardhowe.3 Julia Ward Howe

            Don’t forget the Romans who didn’t want him around shaking things up. http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2011/who-killed-jesus

          • colleenp

            Jesus actually did intend to change things – at least at the personal level. He wasn’t the revolutionary that the zealots were hoping he would be, but he did want to change the way things were run in the Temple and the way the Jews interacted with the Romans. He was in favor of small rebellion, for example – (I’m paraphrasing here) “when someone hits you on the right cheek turn and offer him your left”. That was actually an attempt to dishonor the Romans, who would only hit with the back of their hand. To offer them your left cheek would be to tell them to hit you with their left hand, which was reserved for bathroom business ONLY and would have dishonored the person doing the hitting. But refusing to hit a Jew who has wronged you was also dishonorable for a Roman. It was to put them between a rock and a hard place. The same for “when a person asks you to walk with him a mile, walk with him two”. Romans could force a Jew to carry their things for up to a mile, but after that the Roman would be punished for abuse. If a Jew forced himself upon the Roman for more than a mile, it would be bad for the Roman. So, he was for change, slight rebellion, and a new way of worshiping in the Temple.

            And yes, he wanted them to pay their taxes.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_W5PYVKQUEKIWMA7HZNTBKV7HN4 Mayme

          I don’t ever remember Christ talking about a Bible.

        • http://www.facebook.com/jarryn.shaffner Jarryn Shaffner

          perhaps study liberalism from as many different perspectives as possible, that person with hard earned money should be happy to pay it forward, and i agree with you as far as abortion goes, but is killing Iraq children that are already alive any better?

        • bratzee

          YOU* ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN. YOU ARE AN AYN RANDIAN and will join her in hell. You CANNOT serve BOTH Ayn Rand and Jesus Christ.
          Luke 3:11, Acts 2:44-45: 2
          Samuel 12:1-5, Matthew 19:24, Matthew 5:1-11, Acts 4:32-35, Luke 7, Mark
          10:17-23, Romans 13:6-7, 1 John 3:17, Leviticus
          25:35, Isaiah
          10: 1-2, Amos 8:4-8, James 5:1-5, James 3:14-18, James 2:1-9, James
          1:9-11, Proverbs
          22:16, 22-23, Isaiah 3 13-15. Ezek. 16:49ff 2 Corinthians 8:13-15

          Galatians 5:13-15, Genesis 41:33-48, 1 Corinthians 10:24

          • MrModerateAZ

            All worship Ayn Rand!!

      • knownote

        I’ve never in my life heard a liberal say “go and SIN no more.” Liberals wallow in said sin and protect those who wallow in their sin as well by telling them it’s NOT sin. And as to war, Jesus said there will be wars and rumors of wars, these things MUST come to pass.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_W5PYVKQUEKIWMA7HZNTBKV7HN4 Mayme

          “Go and sin no more.” There, are you happy?

        • windel

          Go, and sin no more

          Now you can stop going around saying that for the rest of your life…

        • bearzee

          Go, and sin no more. YOU especially.
          Luke 3:11, Acts 2:44-45: 2
          Samuel 12:1-5, Matthew 19:24, Matthew 5:1-11, Acts 4:32-35, Luke 7, Mark
          10:17-23, Romans 13:6-7, 1 John 3:17, Leviticus
          25:35, Isaiah
          10: 1-2, Amos 8:4-8, James 5:1-5, James 3:14-18, James 2:1-9, James
          1:9-11, Proverbs
          22:16, 22-23, Isaiah 3 13-15. Ezek. 16:49ff 2 Corinthians 8:13-15

          Galatians 5:13-15, Genesis 41:33-48, 1 Corinthians 10:24

        • http://www.nealalanspurlock.com/ Neal Alan Spurlock

          Sure, he said there will be wars and rumors of wars. He didn’t say “Go forth and be torturing warmongers, conquer the world and exploit its resources for 1% of your population.” He also didn’t say “Treat your neighbor like second-class citizens if they are a different color, gender, sexual preference, follow a different religion or politics, are poor, or a different nationality than you.” He didn’t say “Give all ye have to the rich and be grateful for the opportunity to do so.”

          He did say, however, to not return evil for evil, to turn the other cheek, to love your neighbor as yourself, and to give your wealth to the poor and take up the cross and follow him. Funny how none of the fundies seem to care about those bits of scripture, hmm?

      • tevans9129

        Really, what verses are you using to validate your assertion? I must have missed where Jesus said that it was ok to kill the innocent, that it was ok for man to lay with a man like a woman.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_W5PYVKQUEKIWMA7HZNTBKV7HN4 Mayme

          Matt. 23:23
          “How horrible it will be for you, scribes and Pharisees! You hypocrites! You give [God] one-tenth of your mint, dill, and cumin. But you have neglected justice, mercy, and faithfulness. These are the most important things in Moses’ Teachings. You should have done these things without neglecting the others. 24You blind guides! You strain gnats [out of your wine], but you swallow camels.

          • tevans9129

            And that answered my question how exactly?

        • MrModerateAZ

          naw, you gotta lay with a man like a man, baby!

    • Richard Warren

      In principle I agree with you Julie although Jesus was a Jew. Actually one of the great dangers for Christians is to make Jesus in their image which is much of what fundamentalism and those of other stripes within the Christian tradition do. It is impossible to be entirely “objective” but fundamentalism has become so dogmatic that it is now impossible to even dialogue with them. They are right, absolutely right and as with power dogma that becomes absolute is dangerous in its inability to recognize the limits of its own belief system. Its rigidity led to the pogroms against Jews, the persecution of anyone who did not “believe” the way “we do” unleashing religious conflicts and outright wars in Europe between Roman Catholics and Protestants and Protestants and Protestants. It is why Roger Williams, the founder of Rhode Island, who had to flee for his life from the Puritan Massachusetts Bay Colony for his life. He is the father of the idea of religious freedom in this nation. It is increasingly becoming uncomfortable for many Christians because of the judgmental attitude of the writer of this article and many others like him. The polarization between Christians is greater now than it has been in the 65 years I have been alive in this country. Denominations appear to be splitting as the polarization grows and the rigidity of religious fundamentalism wreaks its havoc on the fabric of Main Street Americas. The new religious litmus test is there. You see it in this article. It is just a matter of time before the violence of this view begins to take shape and will be justified. One need only look at the history of this nation in its attitude and treatment of indigenous people, Blacks, Jews, and now illegal immigrants and gays. In the future anyone who does not meet the religious criteria/requirements that will be foisted upon the people of this country will be outcasts and second class citizens at best. If the the Religious Right succeeds in reclaiming this country as a so called “Christian” nation what will this Christianity look like? Whose Christianity will it represent? Fundamentalist Christianity as represented by the writer of this article and those like him have already determined that they can tell who is “Christian” and who is not. That should be of concern to everyone one of us and forebodes a dangerous time lies ahead for this nation. Though it claims to be “Christian” it is anything but Christian. These are the new Pharisees and Jesus was the enemy to them two thousand years ago.

      • http://www.facebook.com/william.powell William Powell

        You make a very valid point and I must agree, but the other side is just as bad! What is a person to do? I believe that government should not be in the business of charity. AM I wrong in that belief? Should a large portion of the funds for the poor be given to the bureaucracy that doles out what is left? Can it be trusted as it’s representatives lend great creadance to those evil whispers in the halls of congress (lobbyist). While your points may be valid, secular leftist or “progressive” liberals are not the answer either….

        • windel

          Since welfare and food stamps combined take up less than 5% of the budget – and logically taking away those programs would only save you 5% of your income taxes – I think it’s a pretty good deal

          And since it has been proven that free-will charity does not provide enough to fight poverty more than a third-world nation would

          Yes, you are wrong in your belief that government should not be in the business of charity

        • bearzee

          Romans 13:6-7

          This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are
          God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give
          to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then
          revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

          Acts
          4:32-35

          that
          there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned
          land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the
          apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.
          (Isaiah
          10: 1-2)

          Woe to
          those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees to deprive
          the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people
          Proverbs
          22:16

          One who
          oppresses the poor to increase his wealth

          and one who gives gifts to the rich—both come to
          poverty.
          Isaiah 3:13-15

          The LORD takes
          his place in court; he rises to judge the people. The LORD enters into judgment
          AGAINST the elders and leaders of his people: “It is you who have ruined my
          vineyard; the plunder from the poor is in your houses. What do you mean by
          crushing my people and grinding the faces of the poor?” declares the Lord, the
          LORD Almighty.
          Genesis 41

          33 “And now let
          Pharaoh look for a discerning and wise man(AM) and put him
          in charge of the land of Egypt.(AN) 34 Let Pharaoh appoint commissioners(AO) over the land
          to take a fifth(AP) of the
          harvest of Egypt during the seven years of abundance.(AQ)35 They should collect all the food of
          these good years that are coming and store up the grain under the authority of
          Pharaoh, to be kept in the cities for food.(AR) 36 This food should be held in reserve for
          the country, to be used during the seven years of famine that will come upon
          Egypt,(AS) so that the
          country may not be ruined by the famine.”
          The government is also given the task of taking care of “the least of these”. Did not Jesus rebuke the Pharisees (the GOP of Judah) for not doing so? The minsters (and Socialists) Francis Bellamy (you may be familiar with what he wrote, the Pledge of Allegiance) and Charles Sheldon (“WWJD”, from the book In His Steps) felt government should also provide charity.
          You CANNOT serve BOTH Ayn Rand and Jesus Christ.

      • LibertysSon

        To blame fundamentalist Christians for the Pograms against the jews misdefines who they are. I do not consider the organized church of past centuries of history as fundamentalists. True Born again believers of today know that many churches of the past were filled with man made ideas and dogmas rather than truly Christ centered teaching and faith. One prime example is that evangelical Christians of today are the greatest supporters of Israel and the Jewish people. This would have been anathema to the older Orthodox Churches of history. And yes Yeshua (Jesus) was a Jew. The greatest Jew of all! And he came to save the Jews and the Gentiles.

      • Guest

        Please, Roman Catholics were not Fundamentalist Christians.

      • Guest

        Please, Roman Catholics were not Fundamentalist Christians.

    • victorbarney

      If He was a Jew, then why the Greek name “Jesus” to honor Zeus by Petrus Galatinus? Just saying…

      • Skypilot

        That’s just plain stupid.

      • colleenp

        His name was actually “Yeshua”, a 100% traditional Jewish name. It has been Anglicized to “Jesus”. There is no connection at all with Zeus.

        • MrModerateAZ

          Zeus is awesome, I pray to Zeus every night that everybody will be ok. There is a little-known holy text brought down from Mt. Olympus that speaks of a day when Zeus returns to mete out justice to the fair and good, and punishment to the wicked, the time is now, join me in praising Zeus!!

          • Wisesage

            Methinks you’re an ass, troll.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1112025213 Sean Murphy

    Wow, tiny minds…

  • Michael Case

    Wow. Epic Fail

  • Tim

    Huh, no citing of the Bible here, huh? No scripture? Yeah, sounds like someone is projecting their own beliefs onto scripture instead of being transformed by the scripture.

    BTW, I’m a moderate. You sound much like a Pharisee, however.

  • ugh

    Wow. This is unbelievably dumb.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000474506779 Mike Bezalel

    I don’t recall Christ defining what political affiliation He belonged to or to which we were supposed to affiliate…but I contend it would not be with the party who openly supports war, greed, derision, division and callousness….so he wouldn’t be a republican, either.

    Oh, and you blog is literally glutted with lies. If you were truly on the side of morality and virtue…you would need not post such things..and the fact that you did shows you are a jackal.

    • Loki

      i looked it up. He was actually a Whig.

    • http://www.facebook.com/ralph.novak Ralph Novak

      “Jackal” seems a little hyperbolic, not to mention unspecific.

    • januslee

      Please help me understand why anyone would vote for someone who is trying to destroy our country, by turning it into a communist nation. There is plenty of proof if you take the time to look. I feel Obama had no regard for our laws or our constitution, and will do anything….cheat, lie, and even kill…for his agenda. WAKE UP PEOPLE!

      • brandon

        What you want to be true you will find, that’s what the internet is for! Anyone can find “facts” to back up any argument they have. Let us all dive into what scripture says and live a life that imitates the person of Jesus, like we are called to do. One of Grace, mercy, love, hope, joy and kindness. Keep the conversation going! We must continue to talk, we all desire the same things. That Jesus Christ is known in this world, and let us continue to work together, not separate.

        Matthew 7:1 “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measure to you.”

        1 peter 4:12-14 Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice insofar as you share Christ’s sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed. If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the spirit of glory and of God rests upon you.

    • David Kim

      You must be joking to think God will tolerate Gay Marriage. And why is it that Liberal Celebrities keep saying they don’t believe in Jesus? Jay-Z clearly denied Jesus Christ in that New York Song. I hate him for that reason only.

  • BobE

    Doug Giles has apparently never read the Bible. Or the US Constitution.

  • The Chocolate Chips

    I don’t see how you can possibly be a Republican and Christian considering that Jesus was all about helping the poor and loving thy neighbor.

    • Erik

      Word.
      Matthew 22:34-40 When the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together, and one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. “Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?” He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

    • $12391286

      It’s really rather hard to be a Republican and a Christian considering that capitalism is pretty much a non-starter biblicaly. The book of Nehemiah states that the charging of even 1% interest is strictly forbidden. You can’t have capitalism without the charging of interest.

      • luzmark1

        A fellow Israelite could become a hiring to another to pay his debt, until the year of jubilee,even though usury could not be charged. Leviticus 25:35-43 Usury was mentioned by the Jesus in the parable of the Talents where the land owner said to the slothful servant “Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers,and then at my coming I should have recieved mine own with usury.Matt 25:27 So usury for business seems to have been allowed. That’s Godly capitalism, making a profit legally not at the abuse of the poor.Why would a rich person want poor people, as they have no money to buy with? It is better for them to have people who can make money and prosper and be able to buy their services and products.

        • $12391286

          You do realize that debt was considered slavery to the Israelites? And the entire point of Jubilee was to eliminate debt as a kind of giant reset button, one specifically created to get around the fact that inevitably the Israelites would become indebted to each other, no matter how strictly forbidden it was.

          Anywho, first off a parable is a metaphorical story and your literal take on it is fundamentally wrong. Of course, I note you cut out the part of the speech prior to your quote, which is, “His lord answered and said unto him,Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:” Which is that if the lazy servant thought that the master was a tyrant and a thief who took what was no his (that’s what the “reap where I sowed not” means), then he should have invested it, since according to that perspective, the master wouldn’t have cared about usury.

          Of course it is not actually about usury at all. Speaking of which. Jesus specifically commands “lend, hoping for nothing again” Luke 6:35. So Jesus is rather specifically against the concept of debt altogether and commands his followers to not expect repayment of debt, but to hope to not be repaid.

          Once more there’s nothing about Capitalism that is reconcilable with the bible. Nothing at all.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/HM63OD3M3DCXW4RFTETVMJBMOM Shell

            Well, there “kinda” is something in the Bible about the essences of capitalism in that we ‘reap what we sow” which I understand means you work, you earn, you don’t work you don’t eat. He also tells us to share, ie., “To whom much is given, much is expected.” Good Post Loki!

        • Katana_X

          For centuries Christian kingdoms/states considered charging interest (ie money lending) heresy. That’s why Jews were the only ones who were legally allowed charge interest on money during the middle ages — and therefore they were the only ones who actually lent money. They couldn’t charge other Jews, but they could charge non-Jews. This is where the stereotype of “Jews are money hungry/wealthy” came from. Exhibit A: The Rothschilds Family. I suggest reading “The Ascent of Money,” which is a very interesting book… or just watch the PBS documentary which is passable.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1068564708 Jim Dunmire

        What about the parable of the Talents? (In the Bible, a Talent is a monetary unit). Matthew 25:14-30 and Luke 19:12-28. One individual was given 5 talents, another was given 2 talents, and a third was given one talent. The man with 5 talents invested wisely and earned 5 more talents. The man with 2 talents invested wisely and earned 2 more talents. But the man with one talent buried his coin in the ground. When the master returned, he praised the two men who earned additional talents, but the third man who buried his talent in the ground just said, “See, here is your talent. I kept it safe buried in the ground” The master condemned the third servant, and ordered him to give his talent to the man with ten talents. If Jesus was a socialist, like the liberals claim, he would have ordered the man with ten talents to give one to the man with four talents, and give four talents to the man with one (that way, everyone would end up with the same amount). This is evidence that Jesus was a capitalist.

        • $12391286

          First off, taking a literal reading of a parable is about as wrong headed as you possibly can be. Being a parable, the story isn’t about or money, economic systems, instead it is a metaphor. Which is something that should be blatantly obvious to anyone capable of reading.

          Secondly, even in the parable usury is condemned. The master specifically states that if the servant thought he was a thief and a tyrant who “reap[ed] what he did no sow,” then he should have given the talents to the money lenders to at least make more. Not that the charging of interest was a good thing (Jesus didn’t even believe in the repayment of debts, he specifically commanded, “lend, hoping for nothing in return”), but rather even if you think your master is a monster, you still shouldn’t do nothing.

          Anywho, please explain how Jesus could be a capitalist when capitalism didn’t even exist? You do realize capitalism was invented in the 1700s?

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1068564708 Jim Dunmire

            Capitalism has always existed. When anyone exchanges services or products for money, that is capitalism. It might have been called by a different name in the past, but it has always existed. Jesus worked as a carpenter, and I am quite sure that he did it for pay. Jesus and his band of apostles had a treasury. Judas was their treasurer. (John 12:6). Any organization that has a treasury can’t be against capitalism.

          • $12391286

            Wow. Just wow. This is…just completely ignorant about economics.

            No, that’s not capitalism. Exchanging services or products for money happens in feudalism, communism, mercantilism, and every other economic system that has ever existed. “Money” is something unique to capitalism.

            Capitalism is a specific system based on investment, debt, and the charging of interest. Oh, and the Soviet Union had a treasury, it was called “The Ministry of Finance of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.”

          • bearzee

            Acts 2:44-45

            44 All
            the believers were together and had everything in common. 45They sold property and possessions
            to give to anyone who had need.

            Acts 4:32-35

            that there were no needy persons among them. For from time
            to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the
            sales 35 and
            put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.

        • bearzee

          So, basically, the man with one talent should have increased the amount the same unethical and immoral way the master did, by reaping where he has not sown? Is not greed, usury, etc. sinful? Here’s another parable for you.

          2 Samuel 12:1-5

          1 The
          LORD sent Nathan to David. When he came to him, he said, “There were two men in
          a certain town, one rich and the other poor. 2 The
          rich man had a very large number of sheep and cattle, 3 but
          the poor man had nothing except one little ewe lamb he had bought. He raised
          it, and it grew up with him and his children. It shared his food, drank from
          his cup and even slept in his arms. It was like a daughter to him.

          4 “Now a traveler came to the rich man,
          but the rich man refrained from taking one of his own sheep or cattle to
          prepare a meal for the traveler who had come to him. Instead, he took the ewe
          lamb that belonged to the poor man and prepared it for the one who had come to
          him.”

          5 David burned with anger against the
          man and said to Nathan, “As surely as the LORD lives, the man who did this must
          die!

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/QCVZDLCKVYDXNB57OFPKLAPOK4 Black9

        I guess you skiped the law of lending?

    • emerutil

      He was about us willingly giving aid, not coerced to surrender our hard earned money to support the social parasites.

      • Matriarch

        Jesus would never, ever, ever have considered anyone a ‘social parasite.’

        • jdangiel

          Yes, he might well have. You are only speculating. His parables were often about working and earning a wage. There weren’t any about someone living on welfare.

          • MrModerateAZ

            alms, alms…

        • felix1999

          Oh, yes he would – Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton and others who COVET what others have and are UNWILLING to WORK FOR IT. They are ABLE BODIED but simply EXPECT YOU to provide. This is totally unCHRISTIAN and a “social parasite”.

        • cris

          “If a man will not work, he shall not eat” 2 Thess.3:10
          End of story

          • one77

            End of story? Funny how when there’s parts of the Bible that contradict Christ’s words, people go with the part that contradicts Christ’s words. He was supposedly the only perfect person so why would you choose Paul’s words over Jesus?
            Jesus said:
            “”But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed.” (Luke 14:13)”
            and
            Matthew 25:
            “32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
            34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For
            I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you
            gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
            37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
            40 “The
            King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the
            least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
            41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I
            was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you
            did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after
            me.’
            44 “They
            also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a
            stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
            45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’”It doesn’t sound like Christ was expecting people must work in exchange for getting the food, the shelter, the clothing, the prison visitation or the help recovering from sickness.

            Also:
            Lev. 19:19ff. Now when you reap the
            harvest of your land, you shall not reap to the very corners of your
            field, neither shall you gather the gleanings of your harvest. Nor shall
            you glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather the fallen fruit of your
            vineyard;
            you shall leave them for the needy and for the stranger. I am the LORD
            your God.

            Deut. 15:7. If there is a poor man among
            you, one of your brothers, in any of the towns of the land which the
            LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart, nor close
            your hand to your poor brother; but you shall freely open your hand to
            him,
            and generously lend him sufficient for his need in whatever he lacks.

            Luke 3:11. And [John the Baptist] would
            answer and say to them, “Let the man with two tunics share with him who
            has none, and let him who has food do likewise.”

            Mt. 5:42. Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.

            Is. 58:10. “And if you give yourself to the
            hungry, and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then your light will
            rise in darkness, and your gloom will become like midday. And the LORD
            will continually guide you, and satisfy your desire in scorched places,
            and give strength to your bones; and you will be like a watered garden,
            and like a spring of water whose waters do not fail.”

            Luke 14:12-14. “When you give a luncheon
            or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your
            relatives or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return, and
            repayment come to you. But when you give a reception, invite the poor,
            the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, since they
            do not have the means to repay you; for you will be repaid at the
            resurrection of the righteous.”

            Ezek. 16:49ff. “Behold, this was the guilt
            of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant
            food, and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. Thus
            they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I
            removed them when I saw it.”

            I think maybe in the time the verse you posted was written in, they may have had smaller communities and when one did work it actually may have helped their community. For example gathering or growing food may have helped their community. Gathering materials to build shelter may have helped the community. Today in the U.S. it’s probably much different from how things were then. Today “work” is akin to getting a job at McDonald’s. It doesn’t really help the community at large. If one gets a job at McDonald’s they’re dispensing unhealthy “food” that is actually bad for people’s health. It’s not really actual food like people were eating in the Biblical days. Now “food” is full of man made chemicals that are at best lacking in nutrition if not outright harmful. McDonalds food has wood chips in it as filler, not nutritious at all. Humans eat to get nutrition. The company also contributes to pollution and such. It doesn’t help the society at large, it probably harms it, and for the most part it only goes to making people that are already rich, richer. Todays “jobs” and “work” are probably not what would have been considered work in the biblical days. Work in the biblical days probably in real way helped the society, today the “work” is mostly selling things so someone can make money. A constant waste of resources and constant creation of waste so people can obtain this man
            made stuff called “money”. I think they are very different things.
            Work previously went to help the group. “Work” today is to obtain money.
            1 Tim. 6:10. For the love of money is a
            root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away
            from the faith, and pierced themselves with many a pang.

            Mt. 6:24. “No one can serve two masters;
            for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will hold to
            one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and Money.”

            I don’t understand how people take something that Paul said over Christ’s words. Jesus was supposedly the only perfect person ever and Paul was a former murderer of Christians. Sorry, I’ll listen to Christ over Paul myself.

            Also there are different translations of the verse you posted as well:
            International Standard Version (©2008)
            While we were with you, we gave this order: “If anyone doesn’t want to work, he shouldn’t eat.”
            Which sounds a little different from the version you posted.
            New Living Translation (©2007)
            Even while we were with you, we gave you this command: “Those unwilling to work will not get to eat.”

          • MrModerateAZ

            why does it always turn into an effing sermon with you? Wow, you can quote fiction, “it was a dark and stormy night”… there!

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1068564708 Jim Dunmire

          Oh yes he would. And he did. The tax collectors of his day were social parasites.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_W5PYVKQUEKIWMA7HZNTBKV7HN4 Mayme

            No, actually it was the money changers or bankers as we call them today.

      • retired Chief Petty Officer

        he was speaking to individuals as individuals. Individuals are taxed with the requirement to look out for their fellow human, not governments. liberals would rahter avoid His stricture and take someone else’s earnings to give to the needy while carefully writing the laws to protect their own wealth.

        • bearzee

          Wrong, Pharisee.
          Romans 13:6-7
          This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are
          God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give
          to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then
          revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
          (Isaiah
          10: 1-2)
          Woe to
          those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees to deprive
          the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_W5PYVKQUEKIWMA7HZNTBKV7HN4 Mayme

        What about widows, orphans, the blind, the mentally ill, the sick, the poor…if Christians actually took care of these people, there would be no need for government to do it. The problem is: some of them are too busy watching TV and listening to drivel from their wealthy masters. Fortunately, many Christians, Jews, Muslims and Buddhist are doing the work, that God told them to do, but, are doing it through government, so that the work can be done without religious interference. I thank them for their help and their passion to do what God told them to do.

      • bearzee

        Romans 13:6-7
        This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are
        God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give
        to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then
        revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
        (Isaiah
        10: 1-2)
        Woe to
        those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees to deprive
        the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people

    • NancyNotPelosi

      I see how you might think that, but you must think a little deeper. Conservative Christians help the poor….they along with their church and charities can do it better than the government. Our tax dollars get wasted in the whole beauracracy. Our founding fathers knew what they were talking about when they gave limited powers to the government. They trusted individuals (who follow God’s laws) to reach out to one another instead of just redistributing. The act of charity is rewarding and strenghthens character and makes our world a better place. Forced welfare programs do nothing but cause problems. (Side note: the constitution states “promote” not “provide” the general welfare, and it talks about freedom OF religion not FROM it) Read the 5000 Year Leap to understand this concept and many others that americans do not consider because our schools are not teaching the history of our beginning. We have been the country that people flock to for a reason. Judeo-Christian beliefs were/are at the heart of it all whether or not you want to believe. Take these beliefs out of the equation and you have a big mess. Thanks for having an open mind and trying to consider a different point of view. It will be hard to go against what has been thrown at us by the media and liberal government – who want nothing more than the masses to be dependent on them and ultimately controlled. They are trying to pit us against one another so we don’t see what is really happening. This is all part of the plan.

      • Matriarch

        Jesus was not one of the founding fathers, nor were they disciples of Christ. They may have been good men who read their Bibles (or not ….) but please do not mistake the United States for the Kingdom of God.

        • CommonSense

          DID
          YOU KNOW?
          As
          you walk up the steps to the building which
          houses the U.S. Supreme
          Court you can
          see near the top of the building a row of the
          world’s law givers and each one is facing one in
          the middle who is facing forward with a full
          frontal view … It is Moses and he is holding
          the Ten
          Commandments!

          DID
          YOU KNOW?
          As
          you enter the Supreme
          Court courtroom,
          the two huge oak doors have the Ten Commandments
          engraved on each lower portion of each
          door.

          DID
          YOU KNOW?
          As you sit inside
          the courtroom, you can see the wall, right above
          where the Supreme Court
          Judges sit, a
          display of the Ten
          Commandments!

          DID
          YOU KNOW?

          There
          are Bible verses etched
          in stone all over the Federal Buildings and
          Monuments in Washington ,
          D.C.

          DID
          YOU KNOW?

          James
          Madison,
          the fourth president, known as
          ‘The
          Father of
          Our Constitution’
          made the
          Following
          statement:
          ‘We
          have staked the whole of all our political
          Institutions upon the capacity of mankind
          for Self-government,
          upon the capacity of each and all of us to
          govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to
          sustain ourselves according to The Ten
          Commandments of
          God.’

          DID
          YOU KNOW?
          Every
          session of Congress begins with a prayer by a
          paid preacher, whose salary has been paid by the
          taxpayer since 1777.

          DID
          YOU KNOW?

          Fifty-two
          of the 55 founders of the Constitution were
          members of the established Orthodox churches in
          the colonies..

          DID
          YOU KNOW?

          Thomas Jefferson
          worried
          that the Courts would overstep their authority
          and instead of Interpreting the law would begin
          making law an oligarchy the rule of few over
          many.

          How
          then, have we gotten to the point that
          everything we have done for 220 years in this
          Country is now suddenly wrong and
          Unconstitutional?

          • windel

            Did you know? – That it is impossible to enforce any, but 3 of the 10 commandments?

            Why haven’t we made it against the law, if you dishonor your parents, or even be a pagan?

          • bearzee

            Did YOU know? Jefferson once wroteof the importance of extending his Virginia
            religious freedom bill to “the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and
            Mahometan, the Hindoo, the infidel of every denomination.”). Baptist minister John Leland wrote, “the fondness of magistrates to foster
            Christianity has done it more harm than persecutions ever did.”, “Let every man speak freely without fear,
            maintain the principles that he believes, worship according to his own faith,
            either one God, three Gods, no God or twenty Gods…”, and “The liberty I contend for is more than
            toleration. The very idea of toleration is despicable; it supposes that some
            have a pre-eminence above the rest to grant indulgence; whereas all should be
            equally free, Jews, Turks, Pagans and Christians.”

          • MrModerateAZ

            DID YOU KNOW
            that you are a d-bag?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1068564708 Jim Dunmire

        Forced charity by the government is not charity at all. It is theft.

        • windel

          If that were the case, spending my tax dollars on the military is theft, since it is forced upon me

          You don’t get to decide where your tax dollars are spent – you elect someone that does it for you

    • felix1999

      Yes, I;m sure ABORTION and elevating HOMOSEXUALITY is just what Christ had in mind is his OPPOSING TEACHINGS. LOL!

      Or how about COVETING what others have – their MONEY?

      It is OFTEN the “poor” that is MORE “greedy” than the “rich”. I suppose Christ would approve of that too in your ignornant mind.

      • MrModerateAZ

        “Greed is good” -Gordon Gecko (could be Madoff, Trump, Romney, oops!)

    • Euna

      The liberals don’t help the poor. They just make empty promises and ignorants believe them.

    • cris

      The problem TCC is in your world is that Jesus was not about first stealing it from others to give to the lazy….It’s not the gov’t’s duty to love thy neighbor or help the poor….Learn the difference

      • DanD

        Render unto Caesar that which is Caesars.

        Sounds like paying your taxes to me.

        • windel

          And if thow doesn’t like where thy tax money is spent – thow may consider it stealing

      • windel

        The problem in your world, yip yap, is that you think Jesus thought that poor people were lazy… He didn’t… Ever… Conservative politics have brainwashed you to think that, instead of being COMPASIONATE toward them…

        It’s not the government’s duty to love they neighbor or help the poor?

        WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT!!!

        Of the people, by the people, for the people…

      • bearzee

        Romans 13:6-7

        This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are
        God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give
        to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then
        revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
        (Isaiah
        10: 1-2)

        Woe to
        those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees to deprive
        the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people
        Genesis 41

        33 “And now let
        Pharaoh look for a discerning and wise man(AM) and put him
        in charge of the land of Egypt.(AN) 34 Let Pharaoh appoint commissioners(AO) over the land
        to take a fifth(AP) of the
        harvest of Egypt during the seven years of abundance.(AQ)35 They should collect all the food of
        these good years that are coming and store up the grain under the authority of
        Pharaoh, to be kept in the cities for food.(AR) 36 This food should be held in reserve for
        the country, to be used during the seven years of famine that will come upon
        Egypt,(AS) so that the
        country may not be ruined by the famine.”

    • CommonSense

      I agree, I don’t see how you can be a Republican & a Christian, either. Now a Constitutional Conservative & a Christian, I can agree with that!

    • tevans9129

      Where was His love for the money changers?

      John 2:15 And He made a scourge of cords, and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables;

      And how about these verses, where is the love in them.

      Proverbs 6:16 There are six things which the LORD hates,
      Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him:
      17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
      And hands that shed innocent blood,
      18 A heart that devises wicked plans,
      Feet that run rapidly to evil,
      19 A false witness who utters lies,
      And one who spreads strife among brothers.

      I see the word “hate” there, not love. We are not to hate individuals but there is nothing in scripture that says that we are not to hate the actions or deeds of those individuals when it conflicts with God’s word.

      New American Standard Bible: 1995 update. 1995 (Pr 6:16–19). LaHabra, CA: The Lockman Foundation.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/QCVZDLCKVYDXNB57OFPKLAPOK4 Black9

      Tyhe poor will be with you always, I believe that was the Messiah speaking, It is the individuals responsibility to render aid to those in need, not the government, What scriptures are you reading?

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_W5PYVKQUEKIWMA7HZNTBKV7HN4 Mayme

        What about widows, orphans, the blind, the mentally ill, the sick, the poor…if Christians actually took care of these people, there would be no need for government to do it. The problem is: some of them are too busy watching TV and listening to drivel from their wealthy masters. Fortunately, many Christians, Jews, Muslims and Buddhist are doing the work, that God told them to do, but, are doing it through government, so that the work can be done without religious interference. I thank them for their help and their passion to do what God told them to do.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/HM63OD3M3DCXW4RFTETVMJBMOM Shell

      Let me give you a clue, I am a Christian and belong to several groups in different denominations. In one there is a program called, “Fixing It For CHRIST” whereby each year a number of volunteers go out into the area and repair, re-roof, rewire, re-plumb, rebuild homes for a number of indigent persons; the women have their own sewing club and they alone last year sent to Africa, Nicaragua, and Haiti over 400 pillowcase dresses and little shorts to the children there. In another church we “Feed 5,000 poor families at Thanksgiving and this is a struggling church/community. This is just a sample of what Republicans/Christians do for the love of GOD through HIS SON JESUS and I am not saying Democrats and unbelievers don’t also give to charities, but it is true you can NOT be a Christian and believe abortion, same sex marriage (homosexuality), stealing (entitlements) from the rich and taking for yourself without working, adultery, and a myriad of other sins without forgiveness will get you to heaven. Christians absolutely do help the poor and love their neighbor, you just won’t see it on the national media. Join us. We are as close as your neighborhood church or mission.

      • MrModerateAZ

        or you can lose the whole religion part of it and go straight to Habitat for Humanity, your local Community Food Bank, Peace Corps, etc.

  • James

    This is the most ignorant, ridiculous claim of bigotry and complete un-educatedness that I have ever wasted 3 minutes of my life reading.

    The problem with this country is that people actually believe what’s written here.

    Giles, I think there’s a prestigious career waiting for you at Fox News. If you’re going to throw out worthless, groundless propaganda based on nothing but irrational fears, you might as well do it with the best of the best of America’s disgustingly deceitful and laughable “news media” sources.

    • Erin Jaye

      Perhaps Glen Beck could use an assistant.

      • stevenmarkpilling

        Nothing gets the trolls out quicker than a hard slap of truth right in the face.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeremy-Gilbert/1120302142 Jeremy Gilbert

          I guess that’s why you’re here?

          • dntmkmecomoverther

            …no, that’s why YOU are here.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeremy-Gilbert/1120302142 Jeremy Gilbert

            Please tell me you know what a troll is…

          • czman

            Geez, another troll!

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeremy-Gilbert/1120302142 Jeremy Gilbert

            Generally to be a troll you have to make general sweeping statements to everyone in order to get an argument. Seen as I didn’t do that, I’m not a troll.

        • felix1999

          Yes, they IMMEDIATELY react with HATEFUL REJECTION of God and His teachings. They are too blind to see. It is their SELFISH EMOTIONS that RULE THEM. Oddly enough they see themselves as righteous, pious people as they make a mockery of themselves.

          • victorbarney

            Nancy, was the MSM Media correct when saying that “WOMEN ALONE” ELECTED OBAMA & HIS PROMISED “FUNDAMENTAL TRANSFORMATION OF GOVERNMENT” INTO ANTI-CHRIST(MARXISM)? If so, welcome to the REAL MINORITYi.e. ADAM! Just saying…

          • Michael Case

            Wow…Just wow…

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_W5PYVKQUEKIWMA7HZNTBKV7HN4 Mayme

            Great videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YbUEZfJJaQ

          • fed up

            Christianity is in a downward spiral because of hypocrites like the ones on this site. Jesus would have been a liberal no doubt about it. You low thinkers don’t even read the scripture. God have mercy on you all!

          • hippty hoppy

            @Nancy Law. I can’t believe how many Fake Christian White Liberal Trash is on this site. Please oh great and all seeing Nancy give me one instance of Yeshua being a liberal. Oh please pretty please enlighten us.

          • JenniBW

            Wow, now where do we begin. We can start by opening up the book of Matthew. By the way, fed up, that’s a book in the New Testament, you know the Bible. No, no, no, put down those Ayn Rand books.

          • panors77

            So Jesus would have been pro gay, pro abortion, pro government control of everything, despite the scriptures, eh? I don’t think so.

          • doingmybest

            I think he would of said. ‘And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?’

          • Nascar

            Good to the point response! Jesus told people to “sin no more” after he gave them unmerited grace. He did not expect his followers to jump back into the pigsty of immoral living like the “Liberal Christians” would have us believe. What a mockery!

          • http://www.facebook.com/thefischersmusic Mike Fischer

            Dear Nancy, The Bible says, “Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, and forever.” First of all you must have a born again experience by actually asking Jesus into your heart and accepting him as your lord and savior. After that you need to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit as the Bible says, “He will lead you into all truth.” Once you are saved and filled with the Holy Spirit then you need to read your Bible. Jesus was who He was. Yes, he fed the multitudes but he didn’t issue food stamps. He frankly told the people who had been fed the day before that they were not interested in the what he had to say but “because ye did eat of the loaves and were filled.” He did not feed them again. You need to read your bible Nancy and I would be careful what you say Jesus would or would not be. I would imagine He might not care to be lumped in with baby killers, sodomites,and the such. He would love them but he would not be one of them. He would be calling them home. I don’t know that he’d be going along with all that comes with conservatism either, at least not some of the people who have made their living being Republicans. It’s not a matter of what party you are in but what is in your heart. Certainly the makes it clear and actually says, “choose life” and “all they that hate me love death.” There is going to come a time of Great Tribulation upon the whole earth. Jesus said it was going to the worst time there ever was. During that time people are going to killing Christians just as they once did in Rome only it’s going to much more widespread. The gap between being able to be a Christian or believer and the world is getting further and further apart and there will come a time when you will have to jump to one side or the other. It will force Christians to be much better, as Daniel says, “To try them and purge them and to make them white, for it yet for a time appointed.” The Christians will understand what is going on but the world will not. “And they that understand among the people shall instruct many..” In that day there will be no “liberal” Christians. There will only be Christians or not and when it looks like the Devil and all the evil of the world feel that they have finally won, there will come the loudest blast of a trumpet ever heard, “The sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light and the powers of the heaven shall be shaken, and then shall appear the sign of the son of man in heaven and then shall all the tribes of the earth morn and they shall see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory……..” I could go but that is where we are headed and yes there is a war between liberals and Christians and no, I don’t see how you can be both, not and believe the Bible.

          • Gaetano

            Lets get something straight. I believe in god and the Holy Trinity. I have Jesus Christ in my heart. I will not laugh at the blogs on this sight. I am sickened by the thoughts of immoral people talking against God. I will not try to convince the unbeliever or try to twist his mind. BUT, I say now, at the time of your death, you unbelievers will start asking for forgiveness for your sins. You will start to wonder and think ,and say to yourselves, “what if there really is a God”? Then you will try to convince him that you are truly sorry. Might work. I don”t know the answer. I do know that I have prepared myself to spend eternal life with him. You were born a sinner and God is a forgiving God. A president can take your money and make you abide by his laws,and even take your life, BUT he can”t take your soul. That is Gods job. This story is telling liberals and republicans that Gods rules are the rules to follow. If you don’t you will never enter the kindom of heaven. If you believe in abortions and you believe in the communist party ,you cannot claim to be a christian. Because communist do not believe in God, and killing of the unborn fetus in a sin against God. Right now, the democratic party and Obama is trying to make this a communistic government and he believes in abortions. He also believes in same sex marriage.This a sin against God. So, you can’t be a christian and a liberal at the same time.Have a nice day and I hope that maybe you will find Jesus and put him in your sinfull life. YOU MIGHT BE SURPRISED.

          • http://www.nealalanspurlock.com/ Neal Alan Spurlock

            Oh, come now, little heretic…Christianity has a vast history, and most of it doesn’t agree with your exegesis or denomination at all.
            You Protestants just give me the giggles…you think you invented Christianity and get to define the rules for everyone else, when your real origins are in the rebellion and pride of mere humans. Still caught up in that spirit of rebellion that set Luther going, hmm? Still so arrogant as to believe that after over a millennium of tradition, God was just waiting for Luther and Calvin to tell humanity what was REALLY up, hmm? Pure pride and hubris…and we all know how the Big Guy feels about pride.

            There is nothing more anti-Christ than the agendas of the Religious Right and GOP in the United States…you enshrine wealth and greed, sneer at the poor and sick, and never saw a war you didn’t like…does that sound like the teachings of Christ or a false gospel, a trick of evil to dress up the greatest of sins in the garb of holiness? I don’t think you can cheer the state murdering people and letting the uninsured die (the GOP primary debates) and then call yourselves followers of the God that is Love.

            If you’re not acting out of love, all of the time, out of forgiveness, all of the time, you are sinning against God and against the New Covenant, created by Him with the incarnation of Christ. By attempting to “purify the ranks” of liberals, you are attempting to identify the eternal god of the universe with a particular agenda of a particular political party that has existed for a tiny fraction of time. More arrogance, more pride, and more sin…

            So you’d better hope that God’s really as forgiving as the REAL Gospel says, rather than the GOP-gospel of “Gain wealth, forgetting all but self.”, because if God’s really a Texan governor with an itchy “smite” finger, I think you and yours are in a lot more trouble than me and mine. I’m not the one preaching a false gospel of greed and hate. I’m not the one using religion to manipulate the political arena. I’m not the one preaching hatred and division, when Christ preached love and prayed for unity.

            If you truly had Jesus Christ in your heart, then you would be sickened by the attitudes and agenda of the GOP, so if I were you, I would work on my spiritual life a bit more, and politics a bit less. If you find yourself cheering for war, death, and suffering, while booing love, compassion, and peace, you are not a follower of Christ, you are a dupe of evil and sin.

      • Euna

        Glen doesn’t need an assistant, but we need Mr Giles to keep us informed. I like what he says.

        • http://twitter.com/Inclusionista You Know My Name

          You need Giles to think for you, you pathetic people who read this stuff and agree. I will never cease to be amazed by how disgusting people can be. Go back to enjoying Fox News and thinking that you know everything even though you are brainwashed and backwards …

          • hippty hoppy

            I keep telling you I DON’T KNOW YOUR NAME.Be a sport and tell us.

          • Euna

            I don’t watch Fox any more than I watch Network news. I watch and listen to news from all spectrums. I am not brainwashed by anything I hear. I do have a mind of my own, something you don’t seem to have. You are the narrow minded person and, to boot, a very angry one. I feel sorry for you.

        • Stephen Bryce

          You’ve got a really weird definition of “informed” — his entire thesis is wrong. Jesus was clearly a liberal, just look at the entire Book of Mark.

          • emerutil

            No Blasphemy, please!

          • Euna

            I read the whole bible, something you don’t seem to do. Anyone can take scripture out of context and I’m sure you are good at it.

    • http://www.facebook.com/ralph.novak Ralph Novak

      You mean you don’t think the teachings of Scripture are “bigger-than-Dallas,” whatever that means? And you weren’t persuaded by the irrelevant picture of the Ted Danson lookalike with third degree burns?

    • Alex

      Wow you are so tolerant and open minded.

      • padremike

        Nothing has a bigger mouth and a closed mind like a liberal. Those things you insist that people be “tolerant” about are usually those things that were once universally thought of as being intolerable. Read, mark, learn and inwardly digest!!

        • Windel

          I’m sorry, but you can’t change the meaning of words… You simply aren’t qualified…

          Tolerant views are considered open minded…

          People they aren’t tolerant of other people are considered closed minded…

          Simple facts…

          • hippty hoppy

            Why are Christians supposed to be tolerant when we are attacked. And why can’t Liberal Trash be TOLERANT of Christians. Typical Liberal Trash mind set. And Caucasian Liberal Trash are the most evil.

          • doingmybest

            read your ‘ugly’ posts and you will know…

          • MrModerateAZ

            yes, I agree, this tolerance of Christians has gone on long enough.

      • hippty hoppy

        Alex. Why do I have to be so tolerant or open minded when someone attacks my Religion. Typical P.C. from the left. I’m not perfect and sometime well most of the time I have trouble turning the other cheek. I won’t turn the other cheek to evil.

        • http://www.nealalanspurlock.com/ Neal Alan Spurlock

          Right, because that’s something Jesus actually TOLD you to do. Instead you want to make up TeaGOP Jesus, the Rambo of Bethlehem, who told everyone to make as much money as possible, screw over the poor and working class, and then engage in financial manipulations to avoid rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar’s.

          Must be nice to just make up your own religion and pretend it is Christianity. All the benefits of entrenched cultural and legal privilege, none of the tedious, commie pinko “love thy neighbor” and “return not evil for evil”. Most important, of course, in our society of the almighty dollar is to deny and find ways to rationalize away Matthew 6:19-21, and all the other times Jesus attacks greed and wealth as the worst sins.

          19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
          20 But
          lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust
          doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
          21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

        • doingmybest

          ‘And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?’
          Why don’t you read your bible and pray for yourself!

    • luzmark1

      Read the Bible friend, or do you have a better one?

      • JenniBW

        Actually, I find that those who actually read the Bible and FOLLOW the teachings of Christ tend to be Progressives. By the way, Ayn Rand, who all the Conservative Right are always quoting instead of Jesus, was an atheist.

        • Nascar

          Really? I attend an Evangelical church and I would estimate that no more than 10% voted for Obama. And no, the Bible is my moral compass, not Ayn Rand’s writings. It is true that some secular (IE: country club or RINO) republicans revere Ayn Rand, but not the Evangelical Christian and Tea Party wings. We read Rush, Mark Levin, Michael Savage, and Sean Hannity. The “liberals” amongst us also read Bill O’riellly.

          • http://www.monster-island.net/ kushibo

            Perhaps you are underestimating Democratic support in your church:
            “Born-again Christians should not be underestimated: they represent half of Republican voters, two-fifths of registered Democrats, and one-third of independent voters,” David Kinnaman, director of the study, said in the report. “As the presidential primaries gear up and both parties try to attract the broadest group of voters, it will be to their benefit not to alienate the diverse Christian segment.”

    • JJ

      And the argumentation is poor.

    • dntmkmecomoverther

      Ok. show us where Giles is ‘off’. I have experienced most of which he writes. As an educator I have seen education drift to a low, formerly unknown in this country, as we pursue ideology rather than intelligence.

      As a business owner, I have experienced the same lethargic stupidity in the form of mounds of red tape and taxes which continue to harass and stop businesses. If you don’t see that one, you’re truly blind. Just look at the unemployment numbers, and look at the people who have given up looking for jobs.

      Finally, the Democrats seem to love to kill that which is good. Abortion has now claimed an entire American generation…The likes of this American Holocaust is being felt economically today; we shall feel the spiritual effect soon enough. How any ‘party’ can look upon death as such a great tribute to their ‘progressive’ platform is simply beyond me.

      Gile’s point is valid: How can a liberal be a Christian, given the current beliefs of liberals today? You may disagree with his writing style, but his point is valid. I challenge you to show me Christ in any liberal platform today…

      • tevans9129

        Some very good points, however, you are living in Hollywood if you think a liberal is ever going to provide any specifics or proof of what they promote. Just try to get them to answer questions and see the juken and jiven they do.

        • http://andrewbacon.info/ Andrew Bacon

          You’re clearly very open to learning new things.

          • tevans9129

            Such as?

        • Stephen Bryce

          What the heck are you talking about?

          All liberals I know, believe in equal rights, peace, ending poverty, exercising compassion, etc. What’s vague about that?

          • panors77

            you forgot to add through communist government control.

        • Keyser Soze

          Democrats have presided over the most economically prosperous years in the past 100 years of American history, while Republicans have presided over the worst. Arch Republican George Bush was responsible for the single largest expansion of the size of federal government, AND the single largest economic collapse since the 1930s. Whereas liberal socialist commie Bill Clinton gave us the most prosperous and strong economy the world has ever seen, and Obama is currently working harder to clean up the mess Bush left than every Republican in Congress combined. Obama has created more jobs in one term than Republican presidents have in their past THREE terms. He also killed Bin Laden, Public Enemy #1, something Bush both failed and refused to do, keeping our country in danger for 8 continuous years. How many American soldiers died because Bush couldnt be bothered to pull his thumb out of Cheney’s ass and hunt Bin Laden down like Obama did? Barack Obama is an American Hero. Let me ask you, how many high-profile terrorists have YOU killed lately?

          • ???

            Now thats some funny shit you just spewed out your ass. Lets address the points you are factually wrong on, although Im sure you know you are but you have to regurgitate it anyways. Obama has created more jobs than last three Republican presidents combined???? Then he needs to stop creating job since his “job creating” has led to 40 plus straight months of unemployment above 8% for the first time ever. Please Obama stop creating jobs. Thats an arguement that can only be made in the wonderful wacky demented world of liberal land. A little factual info on Bin Laden also, you do know that the courier we had been tracking was being tracked all the way back to during the Bush administration right? A courier whos name was obtained through the same advanced interrogation techniques Obama was strongly opposed to right? ie waterboarding. So basically, no George Bush – no Bin Laden. You are also aware that he put off the raid on three different occasions over a three month period because he lacked the balls to make the call being convinced by his top aide Valerie Jarrett not to do it even though the military and Hillary Clinton kept urging him to give the ok for the raid right? Face it , you support a gutless turd. After 911,how many terrorist attacks on US soil during Bush = 0. On Obamas watch = 1 (Fort Hood) Now, take a second to wipe that big ol gob of Obamas goo you got dribbling down your chin

          • Keyser Soze

            The same old tired, discredited right-wing talking points eh?

            Unemployment reached a peak of 10.8% under Reagan, which is higher than the 10% peak during this recession. Obama has lowered it from that 10% to almost 8%. When GW Bush took office it was 4.3%. When he left it was over 7% and well on its way to 10%. From December 2007 to December 2008 alone George W. Bush’s failed policies (which he had 8 years to fix) lost America 3.6 million jobs.

            And if Bush knew where Osama was, why didnt he kill him? Why didnt he capture him? Are you telling me Bush tortured all those people for information, and then simply sat back on it and did nothing? Are you implying that Bush intentionally refrained from acting on that intelligence and ALLOWED Osama Bin Laden to remain a free man, free to plan attacks on American troops, for the entire 7 years from 9/11 until he left office? Damn man, thats even worse than if he was just incompetent and didnt know where he was. Youre saying Bush knowingly aided and abetted a known terrorist mastermind!

            If Obama delayed the op multiple times and then pulled it off when it counted, that just proves hes a good Commander-In-Chief, and waiting til the time was right in order to not put our boys in undue danger. He intelligently and judiciously wielded his power as President, to the greatest possible effect.

            But you know, i think youre just lying. Yet again. Considering that Admiral Bill McRaven, head of the U.S. Special Operations command, said (and i quote) “At the end of the day, make no mistake about it, it was the president
            of the United States that shouldered the burden of this operation, that
            made the hard decision. The President of the United States is fantastic. I’m not a political guy. I’ve worked in both [administrations,] very
            much enjoyed working with President Bush and I very much enjoy working
            for President Obama. This isn’t about politics. This is about a
            Commander in Chief who I have the opportunity to engage with on a
            routine basis. I’m not a political guy, but I’ll tell you as an interested observer of
            this, they were magnfiicent how they handled the start-to-finish. The President asked all the right questions…The president
            gave me ample time to prepare once the conversations were through.”

            But there you go. Theres the difference between men like him, and people like you. HES not a political guy. You are. Youre always playing partisan politics, always trying to “score a goal” against the other team, and youll say or do anything to do it, even if you know its wrong. Men like him dont do that. Hes a freaking ADMIRAL. All he wants is to GET THE JOB DONE, which is why he tells the truth and SUPPORTS the President of the United States. Hes not a coward partisan traitor like some people.

            And oh man, i love how youre like “uhh uhhhh…EXCEPT for literally the single largest and most deadly terrorist attack in the history of the United States, uhhhhh, EXCEPT for that one, really serious, really really really serious terrorist attack that was the worst terrorist attack ever…EXCEPT for that…uhh…there were no terrorist attacks under Bush. Except for that one. The really really bad one.” Thats fucking laughable bro.

            The single worst and most deadly terrorist attack that has ever occurred on American soil happened while George W. Bush was busy reading a kids book about a goat, and he sat around with a dumb look on his face while American citizens were literally jumping to their deaths from the buildings to keep from being burned alive. Bush was a joke, his supporters are a joke, you are a joke. Republicans are a joke. They suck at the economy and caused the recession, they suck at anti-terrorism and let 9/11 happen, they suck at wars because they cant even figure out what “winning” is, and they suck at catching the people who attack us because they have to wait for a Democrat to get into the White House to do it for them. I mean it really seems like Republicans just arent good at ANYTHING. So why do they even exist? Just to complain about everything and constantly try to raise taxes on the middle class? Just to shit up everyone elses good time and spend all of Clinton’s surplus? Why dont they just leave America if they hate it so much?

          • panors77

            Hey…let’s play the “blame the former president game” shall we? How about 9/11 happened because Clinton ignored the warning signs during HIS watch plus the 1st bombing of the towers to start with. :) Also if you’re so pro Clinton and dems in the WH, do you also support Clintons attempt at leasing Long Beach Naval Base to the communist chinese? How about his selling our ICBM missile guidance system to them for an illegal $300K re-election campaign contribution. Of course when caught they had to give the money back but do you think the chinese gave the guidance system back?

          • Keyser Soze

            I dont support Clinton selling guidance systems to the Chinese anymore than i do Reagan selling weapons to Iran.

            But sorry, 9/11 happened because the Bush administration dropped the ball. 9/11 wasnt an economic TREND, it was an event, which happened at a singular place and time. Its been pretty conclusively proven that Bush and Cheney should have known, and that they were warned, and chose to ignore those warnings time after time. Several high profile experts tried to warn them, including Condoleezza Rice.

            I know its really hard for you to honestly and truthfully admit that 9/11 was Bush & Cheney’s fault. You can barely even admit it happened WHILE Bush was President. The cognitive dissonance must be overwhelming. Youve been brainwashed from birth to think that Republicans are strong on war and defense and good against terrorism. But every single available fact proves that wrong. And that throws your cult-like programming into disarray. Youre like an android trying to process a paradox, it makes your head want to explode, and all you can do to fix it is blame the people youve been taught to see as “the enemy”, even when it makes absolutely no sense to do so.

          • Nascar

            ABC did a mini-series a few yrs. back which clearly showed that Clinton and his team knew about bin-laden (They knew he was behind the first twin towers bombing) and when given the oppurtunity to take bin laden out, they chickened out every time. When the Clintons left office, thier staffers destroyed almost every shred of paper around and also screwed up the office computers so badly that the bush administration had to start from scratch on everything, especially foreign inteliigence. You can’t blame bush for the attacks of 9-11, but we can clearly blame team clinton for not passing on the info on bin laden, a critical lapse in judgement and patriotism.

          • Keyser Soze

            So what youre saying is that it took Barack Obama’s bold decisiveness and strength to accomplish what no President before him was capable of doing to keep America safe? Good point. Hes got my vote!

          • Nascar

            Not exactly. Seal team six which Barack Hussien had roundly criticized shortly before they took care of business with Bin Laden, was a creation of “evil” Dick Cheney. If the reports are right, the seal team practiced storming the Bin Laden compound for at least 6 mos. before the raid. When push came to shove and Obama took the call from the seal team, He (Obama) agreed to let them move in. Obama had no input in the preparations or planning of the raid and was kept out of the loop until the seal team was ready to strike. He just didn’t chicken out like Clinton. Bush was pursuing Bin Laden the whole time, but becaause of Clinton’s treachery (destrying valuable Bin Laden intelligence) and Bin Laden’s crafty ability to lie low by avoiding high tech communications he was unable to locate Bin Laden during his term of office. Also, our Pakastani “friends” backstabbing treachery of hiding Bin Laden when they were supposed to be an allly on the war on terror was a big factor in the long time factor to find Bin Laden.
            Bush was able to keep the pressure on, and crushed Al Queda and Bin Laden to the point that they were almost irrelevent in the onging fields of Operation in Iraq and Afghanistn. If not for President Bush and V.P. Dick Cheney getting our middle east intelligence operation back on track and setting up the Special Operations group to take care of business, your boy, Obama would not have been able to take the victory lap over Bin Laden’s body, for doing nothing but answering the phone and giving the go ahead.
            So, No I don’t agree with your simplistic idealogical dogma that Bush did nothing and Barack Hussien did everything to rid the world of Bin Laden.

          • Keyser Soze

            “Bush was pursuing Bin Laden the whole time”

            Ahahahahaha, really? Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbghL0YA7SM

            That took place SIX MONTHS after 9/11, and five months after the start of the war. Bush gave up looking for Bin Laden after FIVE MONTHS! Which is exactly why Bin Laden remained a free man until President Barack Obama ordered his killing, permanently removing Public Enemy #1 from the global terror network and making America a million times safer than Bush could ever dream.

            But youre totally right, without Bush, Obama never would have even been in the position to kill or capture Bin Laden. Because without Bush, 9/11 never would have happened and we never would have gone to war in the first place.

          • bmytedbear

            Superabound you need to see a doctor. Your boy Clinton was to busy getting a blowjob in the White House, he refused to accept Bin Laden even though he was offered up to him. Then there wouldn’t have been a 9-11. Must have been one hell of a hummer.

          • Will

            Hahaha, even almost 20 years later, Republicans are still furiously obsessed with a grown man getting his penis sucked. What a joke. You still cant come up with a single valid criticism of Clinton, and have to fall back on blowjobs. Well guess what? Blowjobs are every red blooded American mans birthright. Ive received blowjobs, theyre pretty great. Pretty hard to want to start an unnecessary war and get Americans killed after youve had a blowjob. Bush obviously should have had a blowjob, more Americans would be alive today if he had. In fact, you sound like a guy whos never had one either. Im sure if you called up Michael Savage or Eric Cantor theyd be willing to give you one. On the down low, of course.

          • Nascar

            You’re f’ing stupid, not to mention an immoral pig (common among “progressives”). Clinton should have been more concerned with national security than having his monkey spanked. If I had done what Clinton did at my work office, I would have been fired and probably sued for every cent I have. Clinton didn’t even have the decency to “satisfy himself” at the residence, but instead did it in the oval office. What a discusting piece of arkansas white trash (Son of a prostitute) or as “blondies” sidekick in “The good the bad and the ugly would say ” the son of a thousand fathers”. A good Democrat mentor indeed. Then there is also Ted Kennedy……and the whole younger Kennedy clan. All good whoremonger Democrats.

          • emerutil

            You sir, are a homo!

          • Keyser Soze

            So Clinton was too busy getting a blowjob to catch Bin Laden. Then what was Bush’s excuse? Was someone giving him head too?

          • emerutil

            What in the world are you smoking??

          • Keyser Soze

            And predictably, you cowardly try to avoid the question: Republicans suck at the economy, suck at war, suck at anti-terrorism, suck at civil rights, suck at basic freedoms….so why do they exist? What is the Republican party good for other than raising billions of dollars in campaign funds from Chinese and Israeli crime bosses, and doing or saying whatever it takes to get elected and gain more power?

          • one77

            Uh.. It was Bush’s “watch” WHEN 911 happened. The worst attack on U.S. soil.
            Oh no! Obama didn’t stop a crazy member of the U.S. military from attacking other members of the military? I’m sure he could have done that somehow, right?
            Bush actually had info that the U.S. was in danger and apparently didn’t act on it:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIpEwGmSsmM
            and some Richard Clarke.
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky374uh9OF8
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-MpONnr5_s&feature=related

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_A._Clarke

          • Edmund Burke

            Enjoying your Kool-Aid, are you

          • jerry

            lets not forget Bill Clinton signed Nafta into being and that began the process of all the jobs leaving our country.

          • Keyser Soze

            I agree, NAFTA was one of the worst things to ever happen to this country, and ive opposed it from the beginning, in December 19, 1992 when President George H.W. Bush first signed it.

            But thankfully, after Bush I passed it along to the newly-elected Clinton administration to be ratified, Clinton refused to sign it without special protections first being put in to protect American workers from losing their jobs, and those protections proved to be very successful all through Clinton’s presidency and the whole 90s when America entered into a new era of prosperity and low unemployment.

            But then when Bush took power he dismantled all those protections and regulations Clinton put in, and guess what happened? American jobs got shipped to China and India by the millions.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7FKFF5KJKX6N23BZ2LRRAZIDHA Felix

            You knucklehead, when Reagan took over interest rate was 23%, inflation was 11.5, and he created 25,000,000. jobs and presided over the biggest economic expansion in the history of our country. As it is today, there was no respect in the world for our country. Reagan also liberated East Europe, and destroyed communism without firing a bullet. Is it any wonder why Poland in gratitude built a statute of Reagan in its capital city, Warsaw. Educate yourself.

          • bmytedbear

            Felix, I don’t think superabound is playing with a full deck.

          • Will

            Communism destroyed itself, just as all militaristic totalitarian regimes do. Which is why i want America to stop becoming one.

            But im glad you recognize that Presidents cannot blamed for the shitty economy they inherit from the previous President. Its surprisingly honest of you, most Republicans pretend not to understand that just so they can score political points against Obama.

          • Tuffman

            Superabound (Super stupid is as stupid posts.

          • Nascar

            So how much is team Obama paying you to spew thier talking points?

          • Keyser Soze

            Only right-wing Tea Party groups pay people to post talking points on the internet. Funny how the only things Republicans ever know to accuse their enemies of are they things theyre doing themselves. Seriously, if you ever want to know what a Republican is doing behind closed doors, just listen to what he accuses other people of doing.

          • Nascar

            Really? I’m not getting a penny for any of my posts! Please send me a link to a Tea Party group that will pay me.When my wife and I got married, we were both virgins, and lost it to each other. We have been the only two involved sexually with each other. Funny how “progressives” or “Liberals” like to project thier own immoral thoughts and actions on others who are not that way. Then they cover up thier sin with child murder (aborticde) and call it a “choice”. You don’t know me. You are just so full of it!

          • Keyser Soze

            Congratulations, youve only had sex with one woman in your entire life. Although i have no idea what that has to do with this conversation or politics or….anything at all.

            Or maybe youre just trying to explain why youre so bitter and twisted and such a cruel little black-hearted troll who cant think straight? All that sexual frustration has backed up into your brain like a busted septic tank.

          • emerutil

            You conveniently left out that it is the Demoncrat Party who caused all the economic calamity under which we are now suffering. Bush had no control over you parasites! He had to deal with a veto proof congress! As for Obama: Oh puhleaze!

          • Keyser Soze

            Haha are you delusional?? Bush and Cheney had unified power over the entire federal government for years! There was no separation of powers under Bush, and he used Executive Privilege and signing statements more than every previous President combined. It was the single largest expansion of the Executive branch in American history! There were a dozen different books written about it. Anytime he was met with any Democratic resistance, he just circumvented Congress entirely, INCLUDING when he started his two wars! Bush and Cheney ran America like a dictatorship!

            Are you just too young to remember any of this, or were you living in France with Mitt Romney at the time?

      • Dwayne Bevins

        You can be PRO-LIFE and PRO-CHOICE AT THE SAME TIME. I am a prime example of this belief. If I knew of any woman who wanted to get an abortion, I would seek to get her counseling from a Pastor or myself. I would explain the obvious “pros” of ADOPTION, which is how I have my 2 beautiful children. HOWEVER, if she chose to have that abortion, I have no right to stand in her way, nor do I have any right to judge her for her choice. It is up to the Lord God above to judge her…not me, not you and not Doug Giles. Thankfully the Lord is my ultimate judge, not the likes of you or the writer of this piece of garbage.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_W5PYVKQUEKIWMA7HZNTBKV7HN4 Mayme

          Thank you for a sane view.

          • hippty hoppy

            Mayme Thank you for an insane response to a idiotic post.

        • dntmkmecomoverther

          You couldn’t be more wrong in your belief that one can be pro life and pro choice.

          Your belief in that untruth would be analogous to saying that God is both a hater of sin and a lover of it. It is not possible to be OK with saying that ‘God (Holy Spirit) is the giver of life’ in the Creed, and then turning around and saying, ‘but I’m OK with my friend killing that life’.

          I suggest you speak with a pastor who possesses enough theological background to walk you through your dilemma.

          • Mike

            We have tried prohibition how many times? War on alcohol. The war on drugs. Next let’s create a war on abortion. The question should not be on whether we are morally opposed to abortion–as the Republican Party has tried to frame this issue and alienated a lot of people who would have otherwise been pro-life. The issue is how we are going to reduce abortion as much as possible in this country. They have framed “a culture of life” as solely about being about abortion. Republican politics however care nothing about such a culture where we actually value other human beings and try to create a government of by and for the people that works. Giving more handouts to the wealthy is the real goal of the operatives of this mercenary party. For Republicans, demonizing and dividing people is “just business.” For those super-rich who support it, it is simply a very good investment in terms of dollars and cents–forget about the future of the country. They can’t win as libertarians yet, so for now they have to use issues like this to divide us. There is no God on Wall Street.

          • dntmkmecomoverther

            You are equivocating on the term/thought of ‘prohibition’. Abstaining from alcoholic ingestion is surely a choice in behaviours (whether one is addicted or not). In abortion however, the child is the innocent ‘partner’ in the abortion procedure; and the child always dies as a result. The dead baby had NO choice in the matter. You can’t equivocate the two justly.

            If we as a country, (as a Republic) don’t get the life issue, then none of the other issues will ever matter. If life is not sacred, then why not maim, kill, steal, murder in order to ‘get ahead’? That’s what the animals do…Only when life is a protected entity, valued by this generation, can any of our other ambitions take hold and blossom. Any culture which kills its young, has failed (the dustbins of history are littered with them).

            BTW, I am a ‘reluctant’ Republican; and I am so far from rich I can’t even see it from here. Where do you get the notion that Republicans are a bunch of rich guys? Perhaps you ought to look at the donor list for Obama…his donors are just plain ludicrous rich…

            You said: “Republican politics however care nothing about such a culture where we actually value other human beings and try to create a government of by and for the people that works.” Oh contraire mon frère: the Republicans were the party that ended slavery in the USA; fought for the 13th and 14th amendments and most of the civil rights movements of the 1960s while the Democrats fought back tooth and nail (KKK was a bunch of southern Democrats).

            The ‘Problem’ is not so much whether we are Republicans by our views, but in what the RNC doles out for nominees. We really deserve someone much more conservative than Mr. Romney.

          • scottsgirl

            Handouts to the wealthy? Super-rich? Check out the Forbes 400 list. At the top….at the very top..Soros. Buffet. Both support the Democrat Party and we all know where donations to anything liberal come from. Let’s not forget the Hollywood elite, and Oprah. Very wealthy people who are celebrated for their wealth and lavish lifestyles; the true “super-rich” of whom you speak. But yet they are not villianized..hmm. But those that work hard all of their lives to build weath and provide jobs and make wise investments….they are framed as greedy. Kind of backwards in my view. Republicans believe in helping people help themselves, to lifting people up. Liberals want poor to be dependent on the government, to oppress them, to keep them in welfare.

        • ColoradoMan

          While I agree that it is not up to you to judge her, it is important for her to know that the decision to abort will probably haunt her throughout her life. That is one reason why the scriptures would advise against the taking of that innocent life.

        • URKiddinMee

          There are now very effective medications for your obvious schizophrenia.

        • Shane

          So I guess the pro life side of you would counsel a woman not to murder her child, but if she chose to do so you would not stand in her way or judge her. This particular child is 10 months old. Of course you would stand in her way and even judge her to stop the murder.
          She/He is the SAME child that was inside this mom’s belly 11 months earlier. The only difference is the child’s residence. It’s the same child and it’s still murder and murder is wrong in BOTH cases.

          • MrModerateAZ

            honestly, don’t you think there are already too many children?

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1453890564 Bruce W Carr

            no, just too many liberals that raise more dependent clone children, rather than raising competent God-fearing adults.

          • Ron Knowles

            Why would you fear your god?

          • tevans9129

            “Fear” is the Hebrew word “yare” and can
            mean “fear” or “revere/reverence”, depending upon the
            context in which it is used. For those
            of us that believe the Bible is the Word of God, we “revere” him, for
            those who do not, it would be wise for them to get to know Him so they would
            not have to use the word “fear”. Whether one believes it or accepts
            it or not, one day, every knee will bow before Him, either in reverence or in
            fear, it is our choice while we are on earth, it will be His choice afterwards.

          • jerry

            well said

          • http://www.nealalanspurlock.com/ Neal Alan Spurlock

            Because he’s modeled on an amalgamation of an abusive father and a king with absolute and arbitrary power.

            He does things like “harden” the heart of the pharaoh to make sure he CAN’T do the right thing, then punishes all of the people of Egypt because the pharaoh didn’t do the right thing.

            He does things like order the genocide of an entire population, and sends bears to slaughter children for teasing one of his prophets for being bald.

            He does things like destroy a man’s life, killing his family, destroying his health and property, and driving him to an almost suicidal despair…all on a bet with his ostensible enemy. And when that man has the sheer audacity to call foul, this god is the kind of guy who shows off how powerful he and asserts that might makes right.

            Considering that according to their holy text, their god is shown to be a narcissistic psychopath who constantly abuses authority and makes arbitrary decisions, punishing the innocent and raising up the monstrous, the real question is why so many people try to characterize this being as “loving” or “just” when it is clear by his own ostensible history that he is neither.

          • tevans9129

            None of what you write is factual and is written out of
            ignorance and misunderstanding of scripture, but even if everything you said
            was true, it is still His field, His bat, His glove and His rules and He says
            that we have two choices, play by His rules or suffer the consequences. Just
            like Job, we do not get to judge Him, He judges us, like it or not, it will not
            change His rules. I do not accept Obama as the legitimate president of the US, does that
            make a difference? Just as much as those that do not accept God’s rules.

          • http://www.nealalanspurlock.com/ Neal Alan Spurlock

            I think you should actually read the Bible (and the Constitution for that matter) and see how things really are. Read Job…your god is the kind of guy who ruins his most faithful servant’s life on a bet with Satan. Sounds like a psychopath to me.

            Look at the sort of people who use the “follow my rules or suffer the consequences” premise…tyrants, abusers, and unjust kings. It’s no surprise so many fundies are so morally challenged…look at your example.

            Besides, you’re obviously just another cherry-picking fair-weather Christian. You want to talk about following God’s rules when it serves your purposes, but the actual injunctions of Christ, which say to return not evil for evil, to love your neighbor as yourself, to turn the other cheek, to not build up treasures upon the earth, to feed the hungry, heal the sick, to RENDER UNTO CAESAR WHAT IS CAESAR’S…well, those were OBVIOUSLY meant for some other situation.

            And when St. Paul says that all earthly authorities are put over you by God and to obey them, even if they are “bad”, because they are an extension of God’s authority…well, that only applies when those authorities are Republicans and they make laws you like…otherwise all that “respect due to the office” goes out the window. You don’t seem to care much about God’s rules when you don’t like them. If you were truly faithful, rather than merely using religion as a justification for your own biases, you would also follow the rules that contradict those biases.

            And by the way, I’m an ordained reader and sub-deacon of the Greek Orthodox Church, and was well on my way to seminary and ordination as a priest before I left. I’ve read the Bible in four languages altogether, including the NT in the original Greek. I can quote chapter and verse for every point I cite…so your little game of simply negating what I say without actual rebuttal won’t work. If you want to challenge my exegesis, make an argument..simply declaring what I say to be wrong and ignorant is easy enough to do when you don’t have to back it up with anything.

          • tevans9129

            Hey, I would be thrilled to death to engage in a discussion
            with you of the Bible, chapter by chapter, verse by verse and word by word
            where there can be no cherry picking and, no taking verses out of context. The
            same goes for a discussion of the constitution, if, you are willing to a couple
            of guidelines for the discussion and that being,

            1) We each agree to answer every question asked and address
            each point made.

            2) We each agree to provide supporting evidence, if
            requested, for our comments.

            3) I will further agree to acknowledge any mistakes that I
            make if you will provide evidence that it is a mistake, if, you will do the
            same.

            4) More important, I will be as polite and respectful to you
            as you are to me. Unlike many, on both sides, I believe that each of us has the
            right to our opinions and fail to see why mature people cannot have a
            discussion/debate of their differences and still say, OK, I understand where
            you are coming from, I just disagree. You present verifiable facts proving my
            opinion is in error and I will change my opinion, how about you?

            BTW, there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for what happened to Job. I got pretty much the same impression as you the first couple of times that I read it. I would suggest reading the entire book very carefully and keep in mind God’s views of pride, you may come to a different conclusion, I did..

          • http://www.nealalanspurlock.com/ Neal Alan Spurlock

            Hmm…this actually sounds interesting in principle, but I don’t think that this context (comments on a blog) is conducive to such a debate. I have reasons to believe it would be a beneficial debate to be published, because to a certain degree it would be unique. I am not what you most likely believe I am, which means this would be no ordinary debate of this kind.

            One of the major rebuttals offered by theists against both atheists and those of other faiths is that the various theses of critics only reflect a caricaturisation of Christianity, a straw-man, a child’s view of both Christianity and mysticism. On one hand, there is the “Courtier’s Reply” rebuttal to this, but that only fits when one is an ontological physicalist who disregards the very possibility of mysticism, gnosis, or any form of metaphysics based upon what they see as mere concepts. They engage in a sort of assumed Kantianism which nicely sidesteps metaphysical considerations while granting leave to act on appearances. This does not describe my position at all; I left the Orthodox Church because my mysticism was too big, too all-encompassing, not because I found it to be an ill-founded endeavor altogether.

            Because of this, a debate between our positions will be far more akin to two theists debating theology than an atheist and theist debating whether there is even an object of which theology could form the study. My responses to this post have been because I truly disagree with the notion that one cannot be both Christian and politically liberal, not because I am committed to launching broadsides at theism in general. My arguments about cherry-picking and the Judeo-Christo-Islamic monotheistic model of deity being a psychopath derive as negative corollaries to my actual thesis. This thesis is:

            1. The Bible is the record of the spiritual life of two particular groups of people.
            2. Such documents and histories are not unique, but in fact have corollaries throughout different regions and throughout human history.
            3. Such documents are legitimately inspired, but that inspiration is seen through the cultural lens of each given mystic, with their assumptions and background, combined with the particular concerns of that person, their culture, and their era. Questions that are never asked seldom get answered, and the answers that do come are always couched in the language and thought of the human mystic. This comes together with the need to couch their own explanations in metaphor because of a certain ineffable quality which is common to all such experiences…the most accurate theology is apophatic, but it is also the least useful.
            4. Thus, these documents are more like the records of explorers in a vast and uncharted territory, or perhaps many different territories, than anything else, and should be read as such. This allows for things like mistakes, errors in judgment, personal bias, and all of the other things that go along with the documents being artifacts written by human beings.

            This means that I believe that we should include EVERYONE’S visions, every mystic from St. John of the Cross and Jesus to Aleister Crowley and Michael Aquino, everyone’s documents, from every religion ever conceived, and compare them…build up a body of knowledge, go exploring yourself, and put it all together to lead to an entire world and life of spiritual pursuit.

            So the Bible does hold a special value, but not an axiomatic value, to me. It goes together with a lot of other things to create a much more nuanced metaphysical and spiritual picture.

            So I can cherry-pick, in a sense, guided by my own gnosis and reason working together. But the fundamentalist position, to a certain degree, is that caricature, that child’s view of theology, that thinks ultimate divinity should totally just be a cosmic version of their dad…or their king. It must live with trying to square OT genocide and NT compassion, Jesus’s obvious radical message and Paul’s support of the Roman status quo, the idea that the reconciliation brought about through Christ for all humanity is somehow still to be limited to those who follow up on Paul’s misogyny and sex-negativity. It is forced to reconcile universal love with ethnic exceptionalism and superiority. The fundamentalist is bound by their assumptions to NOT cherry-pick, while I am bound by my own to see my search for divine wisdom to be a constant process of sifting the wheat of the combined creative products of all humanity and history, and separating out the chaff of all-too-human fear, bigotry, tribalism, and greed.

            There is also another issue, just as problematic as our differing axioms, is that the combined propositions contained in the Bible do contain material contradictions. Even if such contradictions might be explained due to the history of the issue or author, they are still logically contradictory…which means that literally ANYTHING can be deduced from them using well-formed logical propositions and fundamental first and second order predicate logic. This is why so many positions can be pulled from the Bible…pro-slaver, anti-slavery, pro-racism, anti-racism, pro-capitalism, anti-capitalism…pretty much everything. Which means we can both be “right”, in the sense that our relative positions derive equally from the Bible, and still not agree on fundamental issues.

            For these two reasons, I doubt much can truly be gained from debate, but I’m game. If you still feel such a debate can be productive, I invite you to correspond with me: neal [at] nealjansons.com. I agree to your rules, with the added stipulations that one proposition is to be considered and/or rebutted at a time and that each be well-formed logically and deducible only from the Bible itself…no added games of hermeneutics, no scholastic sophistry or presuppositionalist begging of questions, please. I would also like, depending on how long our debate goes on and how productive it is, to publish it.

            One caveat…I read and write for a living, and have several projects going on right now: research for a collection of non-fiction essays, a book that combines those essays into a system of political and economic philosophy, a collection of poems, essays for periodicals, short stories for various anthologies, and a dozen other, less pressing plans. I am also physically ill with an ongoing and degenerative condition that causes me a lot of pain, and thus a lot of pain pills, which means sometimes it’s all I can do to get out of bed, much less rebut a point in a debate. In addition to this, I have other regular correspondence to attend to on a regular basis. This means I may not properly respond to a given argument right away. Rest assured, I will do my best to respond promptly, but sometimes it will take more time than others.

          • PaulHays

            One thing I would like to point out…the Rules are for us, not GOD. Because He is the King of Kings, and ruler and owner of the universe, the rules don’t apply to Him. Only us.

          • http://www.nealalanspurlock.com/ Neal Alan Spurlock

            How convenient. It must be nice to be good by definition like that. It reminds me of Nixon: “When the president does it, that means it isn’t illegal.” It also makes a mockery of the entire notion of ethics by pretending that WHO you are decides right and wrong, rather than right and wrong being fundamental. It seems an argument for ethical relativism, and one typical of the Bronze Age thinking that created your religion. If we had never gone beyond that level of thinking, perhaps your argument might hold water.

            That’s just not how ethics works. Ethics is within the mind, and no one is above any rules. Your god may possess sufficient power to prevent being held responsible for its actions, but that doesn’t mean that its moral status hasn’t been defined by its actions, just like anyone else. Any tyrant can prevent themselves from being held responsible, but it doesn’t mean they aren’t responsible. God ordered murder and genocide, misogyny and slavery, death and destruction…thus he is a murderer, guilty of war crimes, and not worthy of any decent person’s respect, much less worship.

            So either the Bible is true, and your god really did all those things and is just as responsible as everyone else, or a bunch of people did what suited their OWN purposes and said your god told them to do it. That’s how responsibility works. No one is above or beyond the simple fact of being responsible for their own actions, even if they are powerful enough to avoid punishment or confrontation. All that position of power means is that the tyrant can enforce his commands and (usually) not be punished for the immorality of his actions…not that they are not a tyrant or the acts were not immoral.

            It’s okay if you want to worship an evil god. Freedom of religion and all that. But it’s just sophistry and rhetorical games to claim that this god can do/command evil and still be called good. A moral agent’s moral status is decided by their actions, not their position of power or lack thereof. Your god, if he exists and the Bible truly records his choices, is EVIL, SELFISH, PRIDEFUL, VIOLENT, and CRUEL. Moral agency can’t be explained and defined away.

          • http://www.facebook.com/igor.yesnopovich Igor Yesnopovich

            Hey arrogant self-righteous person, remember that you said all this when you are standing before a righteous and holy GOD wondering what hit you….that day is not far away.

            There is a word for people like you; that word is “FOOL!”

          • http://www.nealalanspurlock.com/ Neal Alan Spurlock

            Arrogant? I’m not the one claiming that not only do I know the ultimate truths of the universe, but also that the eternal god of the universe also just happens to share my childish and self-involved political beliefs that have been proven to lead to nothing but unemployment, foreign, expensive wars, lots of death and suffering, and a financial collapse. You are.

            I’m just pointing out that if your God can’t live up to his own eternal and perfect rules, then he doesn’t really seem very perfect (or eternal, for that matter).

            We all know what “good” means. We all also know that genocide, slavery, murder, and rape aren’t good. Your holy book says your god ordered and blessed genocide, slavery, murder, and rape. Atrocity after atrocity. And not only that, but if he truly created and controls the entire universe, then he also consigned all of humanity to a vale of tears, where good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people. He consigned us to a world where we (and the whole world) are quite literally covered in microorganisms which could cause massive death and suffering, where children get leukemia and massive storms and earthquakes can cause devastation beyond measure to otherwise innocent and good people. If your god is responsible for it all, truly, then he is the cause of all suffering, all evil, all pain, all death.

            That’s what YOUR book and YOUR religion says…own it, love it, live with it, or leave it. It’s not MY fault your theology can’t hold up ethically, and guess what? Since “truth” and “revealing hidden enemies to those threatened” are both good and morally praiseworthy, me pointing out the apparent mental and ethical status of your god is an act of good. I’m sorry if your religion can’t hold up to ethical analysis, but that’s hardly my fault…theology is a choice, and you’re choosing yours.

            Haven’t you ever looked at things like “Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.” – Psalms 137:9 and looked around at the history of Christianity and how this GOP, religious right version of Christianity thinks, and considered that perhaps it wasn’t God, at least not the real God, the one who really is GOOD, who shaped some of those writings and history?

            How can “God is love” and “Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.” both be coming from the same person? How can “murder your kids if they talk back to you” and “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”? How can the Prince of Peace seem to produce so much war, throughout history? How can all of these people who say the Holy Spirit is inspiring them end up doing such horrific things?

            Doesn’t it make more sense to say that the Bible and Christianity have been corrupted rather, than to double down and say “Well, God is perfect and good, so that means doing things that my conscience (the moral law God supposedly wrote upon my heart) says are wrong must be okay if it’s ‘God’s will’.”? Shouldn’t that be one of the spot-checks for a given “holy” text or exegesis…that it fits the basic qualities of GOODNESS and is actually CONSISTENT with GOODNESS?

            If your god is not good, then who are you really worshiping?

          • Becky

            I don’t profess to be a bible scholar but I do have my own thoughts on your obvious distaste for God. Psalm 137 was written by a Jew who had been taken from Jerusalem to Babylon and he was speaking to his hope of the destruction of Babylon, as they had destroyed Jerusalem. Maybe it was prophecy, maybe it was just a heartfelt prayer. Plenty of God’s people have gone to Him in prayer and supplication, many in anger and hope that their enemies would be laid to waste, and God does not begrudge them that. Sometimes He even agree’s. At any rate, my other comment is that the bible was written for believers, not for non believers. Unfortunately, too many Christians try to impose God’s laws on non believers and it just doesn’t work that way. My God, the God of all creation, IS good. I think your studies fell a little too short because you have not put it all together. Not that it matters. If God has not given you a heart of flesh, a heart for Him, the bible will remain foolishness to you, the unbeliever. But all this arguing and bashing serves no good purpose. You will not convince believers anymore than they will convince you. And it is apparent that you know the gospel so it is not incumbent on us to share that with you. It’s a real shame for you though. There is no greater joy or contentment than in a relationship with the Lord. I am 46 and did not get saved until 2005. I was not raised in church. My heart for God came from God, quite out of the blue. Apparently He has not given you that gift.

          • Scottsgirl

            I retract my above comment. Your stand on God and religion is apparent. I should have read the entire thread before replying, I apologize. Not sure what happened to you to reverse your former goals of seminary, for you to be on the verge of a life in service to God only to hate him.

          • gerf

            Sounds a lot like Obama , except , he is not God 1

          • Scottsgirl

            You are the sub-deacon of a church???? With those views of God? Goodness……from your rant and your boasting of your knowledge of scripture and using it to make God out to look bad I would not think you are any kind of clergy. I could tell from the conversation between you and the former comments who actually can claim of a good relationship with God verses “I’ve read the Bible in four languages” lol! And then you call them names to boot!

          • http://www.nealalanspurlock.com/ Neal Alan Spurlock

            I am only technically still ordained within the Orthodox Church. I was never defrocked (sub-deacons don’t get defrocked, I think…I’m not sure they worry about it that much) or excommunicated, so I still hold the ordainment. I haven’t served the Divine Liturgy or attended in years, and besides nostalgia, have no reason nor desire to attend one in the future.

            I talk that way about it because I actually cared enough to take it all seriously. I was on my way to seminary, very devoted, spent my life running back and forth between home, church, and my college campus four or five times, depending on the Liturgical Calendar season. I really believed, rather than really liked to say I believed, or simply enjoyed the privilege which goes along with being Christian in American culture. I really believed, which means that I looked around at a world where the game is rigged in favor of evil, entropy, and selfishness (right down to the actions of cells and sub-atomic particles), and realized there was only one entity to blame.

            I also looked around at American Christianity, which is its own particular branch of crazy, and how it has wrapped itself up in the 17th-18th century political philosophy of “Seek wealth, forgetting all but self” and made an idol out of American exceptionalism and nationalism. I watched people who claimed to love the Prince of Peace cheering for war, people who claimed to love and choose good expressing their “goodness” through bigotry, the politics of violence and oppression, and most of all: conformity. Not to Christ–there is no “Imitatio de Christi” going on here–but simple conformity to the least common denominator of American culture: ignorant, self-destructive, self-involved, and greedy. Seeing an article like this proves this last point perfectly…you people aren’t Christians, you’ve just co-opted Jesus to serve your political goals the same way the Nazis did, the same way the witch-burning Puritans did, the same way the Inquisition did.

            And yes, I have read and studied the Bible in four languages: Hebrew OT and Septuagint (Greek) OT, Greek and Latin NT, and then of course in English. The English translations–especially of the OT–are misleading in many ways.

            As far as why I talk about the idol, the God made in THEIR image that these people act as if they owned the trademark or something, the way I do: because I really actually care about good, evil, and love. I studied Christianity intensely, and found that the majority of so-called Christianity was just the historical matrix of authority during its time…not only is the God described in the OT not good, he is not even omnipotent (he has some problems with iron chariots, apparently: Judges 1:19). The living God, the infinite truth and being of existence, does not live in books, and when I see books and people claiming things like “God loves genocide” or “God hates homosexuality” when by definition, God cannot love evil or hate anything, then I know that those claimed sources are LYING TO ME.

            People throughout time have wanted to justify their own power and privilege by claiming divine rights…my claim is that Christianity as a historical current and in the majority of its manifestations is mostly a tool to do exactly that. The only reason to believe the accounts in the Bible (or Koran, Bhagavad-Gita, or Book of the Law for that matter) is because tradition states they are holy. When deciding whether something is truly the will of God, or the word of God for that matter, here’s a little trick for free: if it seems to suit the agenda of some established power structure, or seems to justify atrocities that normally would be considered evil if they happened to us, DON’T BELIEVE THEM.

            When some pastor or priest or imam or whatever tells you God wants something or other, ask yourself “who benefits?”. Things like “feeding the poor” or “helping the sick or desperate” benefit goodness as a whole…it makes the world more filled with love, happiness, and compassion, and it alleviates suffering, and is consistent with a good God. But if it only benefits the powerful (especially the person telling you this ostensibly holy message), or harms people, or otherwise breaks the basic rules of morality that we all learn since kindergarten on, don’t buy into it.

            If you truly know God in your heart, then you should be able to use the nature you can feel to test the words and ideas of the world around us. Tradition (ie because I was brought up that way) is not a justification for accepting evil in the place of good. The Bible came from somewhere…there is a history of how it came to be, and people who wrote and decided what to include. Some of those people were faithful, and only trying to serve the good, but others had an agenda of power and control, and those show up in the Bible as well.

            So I served as a reader/chanter and sub-deacon because I had sworn myself to the Great Work of serving the living God, goodness itself, and that God gave me a moral sense and conscience…which tells me pretty well that if genocide OF the Jews is wrong now, than genocide BY the Jews was wrong then. It tells me that if slavery is wrong now, then slavery was wrong then. If murder is wrong now, it was wrong then, even when it’s called a “sacrifice” instead.

            No magic book tells me about the living God, the Divine…I know him and feel him continuously working within me. And He has nothing but contempt for people who use his Name as an excuse to oppress the weak and different, or to engage in endless wars and cruelty. So next time you see the TeaGOP in this country acting like they hold the trademark on God and Goodness…look at what they are actually voting for in congress, look at the policies they want and who they benefit. Ask yourself if cheering for having executed lots of people is “good”, or screaming “let him die” when talking about the uninsured is “good”. Ask yourself if bombing people to “protect our interests” is “good”. Ask yourself how other times where doing evil in the ostensible service of good, such as the Inquisitions, holy wars, Manifest Destiny, “civilizing” imperialism, etc. really worked out…do we look back upon them as “good” after all the people who benefited from those acts politically and financially are out of the picture, or are we ashamed of the atrocities done in the name of religion?

            I don’t have these “views” of the real God, “Scottsgirl”. I have them of the travesty a particular group of people have used to serve their own agendas, and that includes the OT Jews and the Council of Nicea. People had agendas, and used the Divine as a justification and tool to serve those agendas, and after all this time it’s STILL WORKING. You’ve still got cynical monsters using twisted religion to get the majority of people to act against their own interests…the interests may have gotten updates, but that is all. And you people are still falling for it…you people still will serve evil and call it good just because the people who told you to do it used the right code words.

          • PaulHays

            Be sure that you remember all your accusations of God (word for word) the day you stand before Him. I am sure He will appreciate your opinions.

          • tevans9129

            Hey Paul, it would be funny if not so sad that the folks who are now so arrogant, defiant and too educated to believe such fairy tales contained in the Bible, to see their reaction when they are forced to bow to their knees in front of the one they like to ridicule. I bet it will seem a little more real to them then.

          • http://www.nealalanspurlock.com/ Neal Alan Spurlock

            Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I should base my actual beliefs over fear of possible consequences. Except…any religion COULD be the truth, right? Any one of the thousands of deities to have existed in thousands of cultures since the beginning of history could be the “real” god. To further complicate the issue, they could ALL be real, because a polytheistic universe actually explains the diversity of phenomena far better than a single god.

            The Gods of Egypt were worshiped for longer than Judeo-Christo-Islam’s entire history. Aren’t you worried that you may be angering Amon-Ra, the sun god, by your lack of worship? After all, the sun really is the source of all life and energy on this planet…it actually proves its own existence every day.

            But wait! The indo-European polytheisms go back just as far. Cernunnos, the Stag That Walks Like A Man, the Horned God of the Forest and the Underworld, may be angered by your lack of worship! Uh-oh…you’re in trouble!

            So, just to hedge your bets, since it’s all about fear (apparently), you should spend the rest of you life covering all my bases by being a polytheist and worshiping everyone, every deity every imagined, for the rest of your life.

            Now doesn’t that sound ridiculous? Doesn’t it make no sense whatsoever that threatening someone with the anger of entities they don’t believe actually exist would decide their major beliefs about life, the universe, and everything? And what makes your religion’s collection of fables and tales any more likely to be true? The fact that it happens to be the one that, historically, happens to be the major religion in your time and culture doesn’t make it any more likely to be true than any of the other religions that ruled different eras just as completely. Going on “what my parents believed” or
            “what most people in your nation believe” isn’t going to make you any more likely to be correct, because all history is filled with people making the same choice for the same reason…with different gods, different religions. They can’t all be right, right?

            Well, actually I believe they all CAN be right, at least in part, and I will continue to hedge MY bets by actually serving goodness, as opposed to the tenets of any religion claiming to own the concept of goodness. If there turns out to be ANY gods whatsoever, and they are in fact interested in our moral attitudes, “I was a dick for Jesus” isn’t going to hold nearly as much weight as “I was good to everyone FOR THEIR OWN SAKE, not because I feared punishment or wanted reward”.

            So go back to your fear-based religion, while I will stick with my LOVE-based mysticism (love is law, love under will), and we can both just take our chances. But I’m not going to worry about fear, about what any god may do to me; instead I will abide in the simple goodness of love, and whoever has a problem with that can do their worst.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1453890564 Bruce W Carr

            it is fear as in choice and reverence, respect; not like i fear my dad will beat me; but I fear my dad will be disappointed if I misbehave. but as a patsy lib pantywaste I am sure you would not understand respect without force, which is tyranny and not actual respect

          • http://www.nealalanspurlock.com/ Neal Alan Spurlock

            Except that he actually will “beat” you…or rather torture you for all eternity. But remember, he LOVES you!

          • http://www.facebook.com/ralph.novak Ralph Novak

            “Respect without force is tyranny”? Really?

          • jerry

            maybe your one too many standing in the way of a new birth.

        • Esteban Berberian

          Everyone is pro-choice. Some choose to protect human life, while others decide to destroy it (while probably doing a stand-in to protect trees or something). I tell people: If you vote liberal, drop the whole gospel music farse. God can’t hear you singing over all the silent screams of the unborn being killed (they can feel pain at 20 weeks and are destroyed later than that).

          • Progressive Methodist

            Show me where in the bible it says that you can’t have an abortion.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1453890564 Bruce W Carr

            Commandment #7- thou shall not murder; as well as other Bible verses including: “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image.— Genesis 9:6 (ESV)”As long as you can find ANY allowance or reasoning within your heart, mind, soul to allow or in any way approve (not dissaprove and vilify) the murder of a child, you are under the influence of Satan. As a previous “progressive methodist” myself, and now an actual Bible believing Christian, I understand your misconceptions. Your “church” is lying to you; you have been drawn to the dark side. There are many apostate “churches” and unfortunately you are amongst them. Find a Bible and rely upon the word of God, not man, not what the “ministers in the pretty robes” tell you. God Bless and best of luck

          • Progressive Methodist

            All of my views on this are self obtained and don’t reflect the entire view of my church. It would also help if you knew that “thou shall not murder” is commandment number 6 not 7. No where in the bible does it say that life starts at birth. In most cases babies weren’t counted as people until a month (Numbers 3:15-16). In Exodus 21:22 an unborn baby doesn’t equate to a child if they are killed and later on in Numbers 5:11-29 were are told how to preform an abortion on the basis of suspicion that your wife cheated on you. You don’t even have to have any proof. In Ecclesiastes 6 we are told that “if a man beget an hundred children, and live many years, so that the days of his years be many, and his soul be not filled with good, and also that he have no burial; i say, that an untimely birth (abortion) is better than he” (KJV). This same concept that it is better to have an untimely birth then a long but hateful life is repeated many times (Job 3 and Psalms 58 among others). I also personally believe that I should do everything in my power to convince her to go through with the birth and if necessary give it up for abortion but it is not up to me to condemn or promote their choice. Again these are my beliefs not the beliefs that i have been taught by “ministers in the pretty robes”.

          • http://www.facebook.com/igor.yesnopovich Igor Yesnopovich

            Show me where it says you can!

          • Progressive Methodist

            I’ve already answered both of these. I’ll start with your second, in Numbers 5:11-29, specifically verse 22 “May this water that brings the curse pass into your bowels and make your womb swell and your thigh fall away.’ And the woman shall say, ‘Amen, Amen.’” (ESV). As per your first remark, in Exodus 21:22 unborn babies are not equated to born children. Also throughout the bible babies generally aren’t counted as people until they are at least one month old (Numbers 3:15-16). Read before you ask, you might just learn something.

          • William Hudson

            The following is a verse referring to John the Baptist which demonstrates that yes, unborn babies are children–the most innocent of children. And their are many other supporting verses in God’s Word.

            Luke 1:15. For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will
            drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit
            while yet in his mother’s womb.

            Professing Christians can rationalize all they care to in order to attempt proving the ludicrous claim that a child inside of its mother is not a child, but these people will ultimately have the blood of these children on their hands. I pray, for their sakes and the sakes of these innocent children, that they will eventually have changed hearts, through reading the scriptures, much prayer and listening to the Holy Spirit’s witness to their hearts.
            Between 40 and 50 million innocent children have lost their lives in our nation since the inception of Roe vs. Wade in 1973.

          • Progressive Methodist

            Yet there are still many left that support mine, such as Job 10:18. And you have no response that the bible instructs us how to preform an abortion? In Exodus 21:22-23, killing an unborn child does not invoke a death penalty as would killing the mother. In numbers 3:14-15 (which i have already commented on many times) Moses is told to count the children of Levi and there for God’s people), and as per God’s instructions, only those above one month are counted. Ecclesiastes 6 “if a man beget an hundred children, and live many years, so that the days of his years be many, and his soul be not filled with good, and also that he have no burial; i say, that an untimely birth (abortion) is better than he.”

          • gerf

            why may I ask did you decide to substitute the word abortion , for, untimely death . If true maybe we should then only call ” abortion “, as you see it , what it really is blatant murder !

          • Progressive Methodist

            First off, I didn’t substitute it for “untimely death.” I included abortion in parentheses so as to make clear what my I was using the quote for and not just randomly having that verse at the end of my post with no further information. Secondly, as I have already discussed earlier with others on this page, if God really hated abortion and considered it murder, why would he give us instructions on how to do it, in the bible. Also, before you post again, please learn better grammar, it would make your posts so much easier to read and understand and then I would also have to explain less to you.

          • http://www.nealalanspurlock.com/ Neal Alan Spurlock

            That verse is specifically about John the Baptist, and having the Holy Spirit in the womb is one of the features in a list that make him “special”. The other verses listed by Progressive Methodist refer to everyone.

            I understand you feel that those lives were lost through murder, but what I don’t understand is why war and the death penalty, as well as letting the uninsured poor just suffer and die, aren’t ALSO murder. Our unnecessary wars of profit, our execution of criminals all too often found to be innocent after the fact, and our cavalier treatment of the lives of the poor and the sick are just as evil, just as wrong, just as much murder and a failure to love our neighbors as ourselves…but the supposedly “pro-life” Religious Right not only CONDONE war, the death penalty, and leaving the poor to suffer and die, they usually GLORY in the death, suffering, and pain caused by these things.

            You want to call yourselves “pro-life”? Be consistent about it, because until you are, the rest of us are going to see your constant caterwauling about the “murdered infants of abortion” as nothing but pure opportunistic hypocrisy…a way to make political hay and nothing else. How many innocent lives have been lost to the warhawks and conservative tendency to only care about UNBORN infants? Once they are born, they’re on their own. Remember the Republican debates? What was the answer YOUR righteous Right gave if people get sick without insurance? Let them die. And they CHEERED about it. They booed a gay SOLDIER, they CHEERED Texas having the most executions in America, and they CHEERED letting the sick die.

            So get consistent or stop parroting the righteous indignation and tragic “Oh, the murdered CHILDREN!” concern-trolling, because that’s all it is. You guys LOVE murder in every other way, and then try to claim you have the moral high ground because you’re against abortion? So torture is good, concentration camps are good, rendition (read kidnapping someone out of their own country and taking them somewhere else to torture them) is good, going to war for profit and fun is good, letting our sick and poor die horribly is good, but abortion…that’s a problem. Yeah, right.

            We all know what the REAL problem with abortion is: it gives women the ability to choose for themselves and stop having to carry around their wombs like an anchor. That’s why there are all the problems about birth control, too. If you were really “pro-life” you would LOVE birth control…birth control prevents abortions. If you were really “pro-life”, you would love sex education…sex ed. leads to less unwanted pregnancies, thus leading to less abortions. The fact that you don’t like those things show this has little to do with preventing abortion, and has everything to do with forcing women to spend their lives being incubators and dependent on men.

            So get off your high-horse about how many children have lost their lives to abortion until you start caring about how many PEOPLE have lost their lives to the Conservative mantra of “War, Money, and Cheap Labor” and the 19th Century “spirit of the age” of “Gain wealth, forgetting all but self.”. You have no moral superiority and are just as much a part of the problem as any other money-grubbing murderer…you just do it at a distance, through your votes and your political party.

            The Right in this nation are “pro-life” as they are Christian…that is, when it suits their agendas.

          • William Hudson

            “it gives women the ability to choose for themselves and stop having to carry around their wombs like an anchor”

            This one line sums up your entire rant. If that innocent living human being is, in your opinion, nothing more than an inconvenient “anchor”, there is little hope that you will see the light anytime soon. We who are pro-life will always stand up for innocent human life and do everything we can to help women who have been ravaged physically and emotionally by the “money-grubbing” abortion industry.

          • Scottsgirl

            William you have a point. Abortion is a money making industry like any other. They do not care about the women, Women are screaming that they are losing their choices, men pretend to care, but the bottom line is they have a choice! Of course the lib men care about the womens right to choose, it rids the responsibility they created in the womb. But does it occur to no one that women don’t value themselves enough to make the choice not to get pregnant in the first place? Birth control and abstinence are both options to avoid the pregnancy.

          • http://www.facebook.com/igor.yesnopovich Igor Yesnopovich

            How about “Thou Shalt Not Do Murder!”

        • padremike

          This concept you and many others have about not “judging” is very discombobulated. If you were not given the ability to know good from evil, right from wrong then moral relativism would be the natural choice for man. As Christians, if we weren’t knowledgeable of good and evil it would be impossible to judge immoral actions but with this knowledge we DO make judgement and we are called upon to make judgments. This is good! What we cannot do is to consign a person to hell by our judgment but…….. Christ did leave the Church the ability to make a more severe judgment. “Those sins you (Apostles) forgive are ‘forgiven in both heaven and earth and those you retain……….etc.” So the next obvious question should be…..”Did Jesus die for all my sins?” And the surprising answer is “NO!” Quite plainly we are told that He died for all the sins we confess. (“If we say we have no sin then we deceive ourselves etc.”) Do we remember all our sins? Of course not! So perhaps it stands to reason that in confessing our sins (daily) we should remember to include those sins we don’t remember. It’s not rocket science.

        • Nascar

          “A house divided against itself cannot stand”.

        • http://www.facebook.com/ralph.novak Ralph Novak

          Who let that reasonable guy in here?

        • http://www.facebook.com/igor.yesnopovich Igor Yesnopovich

          Dwayne, get a grip and shut up!

        • Becky

          I must disagree on two points. Being Pro Life means being Anti Murder. If you can approve under “some” circumstances of a woman murdering her child, you are not Pro Life. As to people not judging you, if you are a Christian, if you read your bible, you will know that Paul tells us in I Corinthians 5:
          12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”

        • William Hudson

          God’s Word states that “a double minded man is unstable in all of his ways”. One famous man in history used a compromising position to solve a problem concerning the life of a baby, and he did this to bring out the truth. King Solomon came up with a solution to decide which of two women, who claimed to be the mother of the same baby, was actually the true mother. He ordered the baby to be cut in half with one half being given to each woman. The true mother was horrified and immediately relinquished her claim, opting to give up her child rather than seeing it slaughtered. With this incident Solomon demonstrated what a true mother is–a person who would give up her child before seeing it murdered. You made one statement that is totally ludicrous–”HOWEVER, if she chose to have that abortion, I have no right to stand in
          her way, nor do I have any right to judge her for her choice.” A few words can be substituted, and your statement will read like this–”HOWEVER, if she chose to have her child murdered, I have no right to stand in
          her way, nor do I have any right to judge her for her choice. Our society has been so desensitized to sin that even common since has been thrown out the window. You seem to be a caring person. Please rethink your position.

          • Progressive Methodist

            A few words can be substituted to change my sentence to mean anything you want. I have a question for you, have you read through the books of moses? In there we are told it is a sin to eat pork and shellfish, wear polyester shirts or other mixed blend fabrics, cooking or doing anything other than going to church on the Sabbath, being raped (not being a rapist, you can do that for just 50 shekels, and you get to marry her), not blessing those who curse you (which lets face it almost no one does), wearing gold jewelry, and last but not least judging some one obviously we have become desensitized, it’s only in our nature and they way our society functions. In numbers 3:14-15 (which i have already commented on many times) Moses is told to count the children, and as per God’s instructions, only those above one month are counted.

        • scottsgirl

          Jeremiah 1:5

      • Stephen Bryce

        So why have I never seen a conservative that believes in helping the homeless at all costs? Or a conservative that believes in treating everyone with dignity?

        • bmytedbear

          You need to open your eyes. I’m a 70 year old Viet Nam Vet and I give to many charities (C.A.P.) for one. If you don’t know what it is, Google can tell you.

        • E.

          Stephen, I guess you must not know any conservatives, then. I know countless conservatives who do all those things you mentioned, myself included!

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7FKFF5KJKX6N23BZ2LRRAZIDHA Felix

            one77, for your information, Exodus international is a an organization of former lesbians and homosexuals who found freedom in Jesus Christ from that lifestyle. Some have married even among themselves leading heterosexual lifestyle raising their own families. There are many other ministries among them Focus on the Family who minister to anyone who VOLUNTARILY wishes to change, and change they do.

        • panors77

          You see them working in the churches feeding people. You see them in organizations like the Salvation Army, and tons of other charities!!

          • Isobel McGInn

            My parish serves over 1200 a month from the food pantry… and participates in Family Promise …. I go down to tutor when they are at our parish… and do what??????

          • panors77

            not sure what you mean by “and do what??” I’m saying conservatives are very much feet on the ground helping in all kinds of charities rather than relying on government to do everything. Kudos to you for helping at your parish. :)

        • Isobel McGInn

          YOu obviously haven’t met me. Been beaten and arrested in civil rights back in the 50s before it was ‘fashionable’… still have a scar on my right inner thigh from a police dog in LA… helped found a day care center in Watts after the riots…. I was putting my body where my mouth was long before you put foot on the earth… and I was NOT alone.

          • Edmund Burke

            Well bless your heart, aren’t you special!

        • jerry

          first you have to separate the homeless who doesn’t want to work.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7FKFF5KJKX6N23BZ2LRRAZIDHA Felix

          Look it up, it’s not hard to find the statistics showing that conservatives give much more than liberals. Liberals love to give away what doesn’t belong to them. Margaret Thatcher said it best; liberals love to give until the govenment runs out of money. Example: Mitt Romney donated 19% of all his earnings last year. In contrast, your boy Obama gave 1% and Biden gave $300.00 or 0.09%. Also, Romney gave all his inheritance from his father to charity. If you want to you can verify it all.

          • tevans9129

            Good post Felix, unfortunately, that does not fit the liberals’ agenda so they will not say much about that.

          • one77

            In 2009 and 2010 80% of Romney’s donations went to the Mormon Church.
            http://www.businessinsider.com/mitt-romneys-charitable-donations-mormon-church-2012-7
            Also these are some donations from his Tyler Foundation:
            “The Tyler Foundation made $647,500 in donations during 2010, including
            $75,000 to the Center for the Treatment of Pediatric Multiple Sclerosis
            and $10,000 to the Dana Farber Cancer Institute. It also donated
            $145,000 to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, $100,000 to
            the George W. Bush presidential library and $10,000 to the Harvard
            Business School, of which Romney is an alumnus.”
            Some of his donations went here:
            “Disclosure of tax filings this week for the Tyler Charitable Foundation
            reveals that Mormon presidential hopeful Mitt Romney donated $10,000 in
            2010 to the Massachusetts Family Institute. The MFI backs “ex-gay”
            organizations such as Exodus International and other anti-gay
            organizations which promote the use of so-called “therapy” as a supposed
            cure for homosexuality. The Advocate magazine reported that the MFI
            also paid for a public awareness campaign that paints transpeople as sexual predators.

            On January 26, MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow reported on the donation and
            discussed it with Wayne Besen, executive director of Truth Wins Out.
            “What Mitt Romney has been funding as ‘charity’ is actually advocacy of
            the predatory quack industry that sells parents on the idea that you
            ship off your gay son to a guy like ["reparative" therapist Richard
            Cohen] and he’ll ship him back to you straight,” Maddow said.

            “There’s a nothing scientific about these groups,” explained Besen in
            reference to Exodus International and the other anti-gay organizations.
            “They’re rejected by every respected medical and mental health
            organization in the world, including the American Psychiatric
            Association, the American Psychological Association, the American
            Medical Association, [and] the American Academy of Pediatrics. Anybody
            with credibility rejects attempts to change sexual orientation.””
            http://www.affirmation.org/news_2012/2012_012.shtml
            Personally I like the idea of putting some money into a system that can distribute say food, shelter and maybe health care to people that need it to survive.
            People just donating to charities they want to donate to will leave people that actually have survival needs out.
            Some people will donate only or mostly to their own branch of Christianity like Mormons, Christian Scientists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists. Some might only donate to Muslim or Jewish or other religious groups. Some might donate to things that are wasteful like “pray the gay away” groups. Regardless of if one thinks homosexuality is o.k. or not, my guess is these people that think they can change some one from being homosexual to not homosexual are probably wrong. Each person is in charge of their own decisions and what they do. I don’t think an external force is going to make someone change. Each person is in charge of their own life, decisions and actions.
            Supposedly Jesus was tempted by the devil. Regardless of the devil or external circumstances, it was Jesus that made the decisions he made. I think similarly in each person’s life each person decides what they do. If a person doesn’t really want to change, no person or people outside of them can change them.
            I personally prefer to have a system that helps everyone that needs help. Everyone regardless of their religion, race, color, gender, or anything else. I would like to give to the people that actually need it for survival. I personally want to have a system where the money or resources go to the people that actually need it for survival. I don’t think it’s necessarily a virtuous thing if people are donating to charity and the ones receiving the charity don’t really need it. I don’t think it’s a great thing if someone is donating to charity but the donations are useless.
            Also donating to one food bank helps people that can actually physically get to that location only. Hard for some people that don’t have a job or money to do. With the food stamp system it basically helps someone where ever they are in one whole state pretty much. More helpful. If someone is trying to move from one area to another because maybe they have a better chance to get a job elsewhere, it’s difficult if relying on local charities. With food stamps people can actually get around much easier.

          • http://willowelephant.wordpress.com/ Peggikaye

            tossing money is easy … anyone can do it, even those without much can give some. But how about getting your hands dirty to help a widow do the heavy dirty work her husband used to do? How about risking having to gulp air to calm the nausea as you help a homeless man to his feet so that you can feed him a meal .. or help him to put on a new pair of shoes to protect his vulnerable feet? How about sweating it out in a food pantry while you LOOK into the EYES of the scared, lonely confused mothers, children, fathers who’ve lost their job and their unemployment has run out …and they don’t know where their next meal is coming from .. how about actually putting your body in the same vicinity as those who are suffering and look into the eyes of those in need … and see them as Christ saw them … lovely enough, DESIRED enough to SHED HIS BLOOD for THEM ..as much as you … he shed not one more drop of blood for the clean cut, never messed up, wealthy, righteous sitting in the church pew every Sunday as he did the drunk schizophrenic on the street .. or the teenage mom desperate with decisions to be made … or the prostitute who got there because life was full of hate and violence and even now receives nothing but judgement … Conservatives give more dollar for dollar but they do NOT give more time ..more of themselves … if they did, the centers who serve the people who need Christ so desperately would have a waiting list for volunteers …

          • Larry

            So, where did the origins of charity come from? From radicals? From ultra-liberals? In the Christian era, the beginnings of almost everything educational, social, and humanistic came from the church, which is the body of Christ (Romans 12:5). During the Dark Ages, the only institution that provided a glimmer of hope for the future was the church. While France as in revolt, England was in revival, thanks to conservative Christians who understood the duties of a surrended life.
            In our own nation, millions upon millions of needy people have found relief through the conservative and evangelical church. The “great” educational institutions of early America were largely demoninational. The hospitals were largely the result of missional outreach of Christian churches. The City Missions, The Salvation Army, and non-profit after non-profit all owe their foundation to some Christian endeavor. Many, many non-profits are Christ-based. These Christian outreaches have birthed babies, cared for infants and chiidren, provided elementary, secondary, college, and post-graduate education to millions, assisted in providing homes to families, taken care of the ill, and watched over the elderly and dying.
            Perhaps the evangelical and conservative Christian does not provide enough hands-on care, but it is a far greater amount than any other part of the public.

        • Nascar

          The Bible states that if a man (or women) will not work, niether shall they eat. It is anti-biblical to be an enabler of lazy, drunk or otherwise able bodied people who will not work. So no, I will not help the homeless at all costs. As wise Christians we are not to cast pearls before swine. People earn the repect they recieve. The word says that we are to be kind to strangers, but I’m not going to sit back and let someone rape my daughter without a violent reaction. Loving your neighbor means doing the right thing, not necesarilly “what feels good”.

          • http://willowelephant.wordpress.com/ Peggikaye

            The VAST majority of the homeless are not lazy bums .. they are mentally ill who never got the help they needed. And the ‘lazy drunk’? Christ died for him as much as he did you …

      • Keyser Soze

        You claim to be an educator, and say that education has fallen to a new low.
        You claim to be a business owner, and say that you have experienced lethargic stupidity in your business.

        In the words of the great Herman Cain, “Blame yo’self!”

      • one77

        O.k. some of what you say may be true to some extent but realize that a huge part of why there aren’t jobs in the U.S. is because Reagan got rid of some of that red tape in the form of getting rid of tariffs that were put into place by George Washington. They discouraged people from making their products overseas and importing the back in to the U.S. because they had to pay to do it. Also it meant products that were non U.S. made had to cost added to them to make the U.S. products more competitive. Now that the tariffs are gone it’s easy for foreign companies to sell their products here for cheap, undercutting U.S. manufactures (because foreign stuff is often made by slave labor) and maybe more importantly, it more easily allows U.S. companies to pay people in other countries to manufacture their goods because they are in pretty much slave labor conditions. When it’s far cheaper for companies to pay people in other countries to manufacture things rather than U.S. citizens they will. Sometimes because they don’t care about American workers or citizens at all and they want to make as much money as they can , sometimes because they have to to compete with the other companies that are selling stuff cheaply because their cost is lower because they pay foreign workers next to nothing.
        Yeah some laws or rules might be unreasonable or hurt business somewhat, on the other hand there are of people out there that only care about their personal gain. Those people will willingly kill others to make a profit (tobacco industry, pharmaceutical industry, etc.) To have no rules whatsoever will just allow the selfish to harm others for their own gain. If it wasn’t for laws, the tobacco industry would still be putting ads out saying cigarettes are actually good for health and people being naive in this country would probably see that on T.V. and believe it. In the past companies sold makeup that made people blind. There probably should be rules and laws. They should be just and logical and practical though. They should protect the people and not unnecessarily harm business. I guess my main point is that many or most jobs are leaving the country due to the cutting of red tape that Reagan did. They’re largely leaving the country because labor is far cheaper in other parts of the world and that’s a huge part of the reason why people have given up looking for jobs here. Manufacturing, tech, customer service, and phone jobs are moving overseas. The internet is also cutting down on news, video, music, book, magazine and sales of new items (as opposed to used).
        400,000 people recently cancelled their pay for T.V. Major news networks are losing up to half their viewers. Many newspapers have shut down. There are many factors.

      • May

        Thank you for your reasonable reply. I have a ‘christian’ ‘liberal’ sister who reminded me that all those aborted babies wii be in heaven. The very education they have been given has taught them to be unable to think critically.

        • MrModerateAZ

          no, they’ll be in Limbo, right? That’s the Catholic thingy isn’t it?

      • Light_V_Dark

        If every Aborted American weighed 1/4 pound, the combined DEAD WEIGHT WOULD BE 7000 TONS(English).

        Each, as much as a dollar bill, 61.6 TONS(English).

      • A REAL teacher

        Jesus is about love – as a liberal I love others – HIS is to judge – NOT mine. Do you read the same Bible I do?

      • Mac

        The two most dangerous foes of America are the Communist/Socialist Left and the Neo-fascist Theocratic Right…..A pox on both your houses…….Two sides of the same statist coin, as you make idiotic references to ‘big government’ bad on one hand, while championing ‘big government’ in the name of your own cause……Pure idiocy…….This nation would be well served if the Theocons and the Socialists both lost this election……You both grow the beast of government in the name of your causes, on the one hand your ‘enemies’ growing the welfare state in the name of socialism while on the other hand, the Theocons and Neocons grow the power of the warfare state in the name of Christian Zionism and Nation Building.

        • dntmkmecomoverther

          Where in my post did you get the idea that I was a Zionist, a Theocon, or a champion of big government? I am none of those (I thought that would be clear from my original post..at least to a 2nd grader…)

          Either you replied to the wrong poster, or you are one delusional comotos. Heads up: next time you post, use some references and some facts.

    • padremike

      It must have been a liberal who inadvertently discovered that the truth actually does hurt. Listen to this heathen rage! It’s not at all surprising that they can dish it out but they sure as hell cannot take it. James, FYI: there is nothing, absolutely nothing that is good about the liberal/progressive movement. They have done nothing that improves life, family or community in America. They are responsible for the deaths of over 50 million unborn children, they have promoted homosexuality as if it is something natural, normal and healthy, their sexual morality is reflected in our movies, music, literature and in the daily lives of millions of promiscuously undisciplined people. You promote that which is evil as something that is good proving that you do not know the difference. You have cheapened life and eventually you will find some reason to justify infanticide for children who are not perfect, burdensome or no longer wanted. This same philosophy will drive you to promote euthanasia for old folks like me. Your philosophy has destroyed families and your’s is a culture of death and destruction. The oddity is that you truly believe you are good people. Nothing could be farther from the Truth. A deadly plague could never harm America as much as you people have because a plague only kills the body. Liberalism/Progressiveness kills the soul and no one with a dead soul is a candidate for sainthood.

      • http://preciousscars.wordpress.com/2012/06/page/2/ pi31415

        It’s actually the Red States who are the biggest consumers of porn — so much for the Liberals’ sexual morality, eh? Teen pregnancy rates are also higher in red states.

        Not that blue states don’t have their own problems — of course they do. This shouldn’t even be an “us vs. them” mentality. We are all Christians. Why aren’t we acting like it and working together? Why let politics separate us when Christ should unite us?

        • hippty hoppy

          ph31415. Another White Liberal Trash Christian impersonator. How are we going to come together, should we all agree that killing babies is a good and honorable thing to do. You’ve been exposed, move along now, but thanks for playing the game.

          • http://preciousscars.wordpress.com/2012/06/page/2/ pi31415

            Wow, really? Name calling? Sad.

          • Nascar

            Much better than aborticide or spreading aids. At least you can’t claim ignorance when you stand before the Lord Jesus Christ at the white throne.

        • panors77

          Point is tho…we are NOT all Christians, and those who are not want to elliminate those who are. Read the manifesto….it’s all in there.

          • http://preciousscars.wordpress.com/2012/06/page/2/ pi31415

            I did not mean all Americans are Christians. I meant all that identify as Christians are Christians, and you are on very shaky ground if you are going to stand and point your finger to decide who is and who is not a Christian. By their fruits you shall know them, and some people on here are not conducting themselves in a particularly Christ-like manner with their name-calling and bile-spewing. *shrug* But point your finger at me and tell me I’m not a Christian. But you will not be the one to make that judgement in the end. God is.

          • Wisesage

            “By their fruits…”, rampant immorality, homosexuality, etc. – those are the fruits that we see and therefore we know.

      • hippty hoppy

        padremike. I just stood up and saluted you! No kidding. Thank you. I wish I could shake your hand. Yeshua bless and keep you.

      • Stephen Bryce

        So that’s why liberals have been on the right side of history, more often than not, right? All I see from conservatives is hatred of anyone who is a different skin colour/sexuality/religion/nationality from them.

        BTW you do realize that without liberalism, you wouldn’t have a concept of “freedom of religion”, right?

        • panors77

          so….we NEED the “evil” to know what’s good eh? Nice Star Wars analogy, LOL. Liberals have NOT been on the right side of history tho. And if you’ll check your history, groups like the KKK, and Jim Crow laws were started by liberals and the dem party of the south, NOT the GOP. It is the liberals who are the racist baiters here. It’s the liberals that want to give minorities free government hand outs in order to KEEP them dependent on their government. Liberal champions like Margaret Sanger who started what became “planned parenthood” openly admitted they were for abortion in order to lessen and eventually elliminate blacks from our population. Do some homework.

        • Isobel McGInn

          AHHHH another confirmation of how bad ‘education’ aka indoctrination has gotten in this country..

        • Wisesage

          Actually, it was Republicans/Conservatives who freed the slaves, who championed civil rights, etc. Remember Robert Byrd, senator of the great state of West Virginia – also renowned as “Exalted Cyclops” of his chapter? He wrote to the KKK Imperial Wizard in 1946 – ”
          “The Klan is needed today as never before, and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia.” Another prominant Klan member – Harry S Truman! Surprised? I think not.

        • Nascar

          Being an ethnic minority is not a choice. Bceoming a faggot is, and if you read and understand the scriptures it is the wrong choice ( read Romans chapter 1) which leads to God’s judgement. Go ahead, keep drinking the liberal cool-aid and see where it gets you.

          • http://www.nealalanspurlock.com/ Neal Alan Spurlock

            Except, you know…all the science and evidence that shows that it is NOT a choice. But hey, all scientists are just part of a liberal conspiracy, so why should you trust them or their methods? It’s not like they’ve ever been right…oh wait, those methods have been proven to be effective over and over again, to the point where we are landing a new lander on Mars tonight and currently corresponding using electrons instead of pen and paper.

            But hey, why look at evidence or the consensus of science when you have a Bronze Age text that says bats are birds and rabbits chew cud. Keep using the ethical injunctions that say a rape-victim must marry her rapist and that murdering your children for talking back is proper discipline. There’s no way that could go wrong…just ask the Canaanites. Oh…there are no more Canaanites? I wonder how that happened…

      • Isobel McGInn

        Having been a progressive/liberal card carrying ACLU and NOW member until I took a university LOGIC class… an learned to think and came out of my fog… and as a ‘champion’ debater in high school and college, I know how to demolish bad argumentation… and the Libs are almost nothing but that…. bad thinking… but they know how to bamboozle with faulty logic ..

        • Scottsgirl

          Reformed ACLU and NOW member? I’m impressed!!:) I am wondering at this point what a LOGIC class is..to change the views of the far left!

      • MrModerateAZ

        whew, that’s a relief to know that your dead soul won’t be floating around creeping us out.

    • SilverHairedSaint

      Doug, did you claim bigotry in the article somewhere? I must have missed it.

      • Windel

        I guess you missed the bigotry against gays, liberal Christians, and liberals in general… If they don’t count to you – you’re the bigot

    • Darlenam

      Irrational fears? You know nothing about the party you support, you must be a typical liberal….

    • czman

      Another troll, where do these freaks come from? Take your non-believing corrupt soul back to cave. Christians have been under attack since obongo came along, it is no secret that he has only contempt and hate for us. Wake up dude, drink some coffee!

      • Wow just wow


        Another troll, where do these freaks come from? Take your non-believing corrupt soul back to cave.” Yeah, talking to them like that is going to save souls and bring them to Christ.

        • http://twitter.com/Inclusionista You Know My Name

          It’s people like czman who turn people away from God and away from believing. Then they can put them down even more for not believing. Who would want to be a part of this guy’s club? Seriously people — think about what you are doing to Jesus’ name when you treat people like this.

          • MrModerateAZ

            yeah, dude, fairy tales are where it’s at!

      • Windel

        Don’t you mean tea?

      • Stephen Bryce

        Who is Obongo? And what is your proof that I personally am evil, just for not being Christian?

        You wonder why liberals think conservatives are vicious and stupid — look in the mirror.

        • doingmybest

          Your words lead me to think you are most likely evil…

      • doingmybest

        You have seriously bad manners…not to mention racist undertones…barely! Your mother must be ashamed of you!

    • CommonSense

      James, you mean the same FOX News where Shep slams the Christian work ethic and bashes Christians? Your bigotry confuses me!

    • salleeann

      jAMES, YOU SOUND LIKE YOU’RE pissed off. Are your panties in a knot or did your boyfriend leave you for a more well endowed consertative. Just wondering.

      • http://twitter.com/Inclusionista You Know My Name

        saleeann, you are so good at glorifying God. Kudos to your for your righteousness.

        • hippty hoppy

          I don’t know your name! How about telling us?

      • MrModerateAZ

        Sounds like you are just baiting, and as far as a well-endowed consertative (sic), you probably wouldn’t know one if you saw one, unless of course it is Rafalca, whinnnyyy

    • JM

      Your response is ridiculous, James. You make no substantive argument here for your position. One thing is certain – you have no knowledge of the Word of God or of God Himself. You have your tried-and-true emotional responses to all argument opposed to your big-government “thinking.” You absolutely have no clue about what you are commenting on. And if you find Fox as laughable, I would like to know what “reliable” news source you use.

      • bearzee

        I.use.the. GOOD.News. Fox is nowhere near it; it bis the Ayn Rand news channel. Ayn Rand, whom is worshiped by Reagan, Milton Friedman
        (architect of Reaganomics), Alan Greenspan (appointed by Bush I), Ben Bernancke
        (appointed by Bush II), Paul Ryan, Clarence Thomas, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh,
        Ron Johnson, Rand Paul, and Sarah Palin (who autographs as many copies of Rand’s books as her own), once called Christianity the “kindergarten of Communism”. YOU are being duped by Fox.
        Luke 3:11, Acts 2:44-45: 2
        Samuel 12:1-5, Matthew 19:24, Matthew 5:1-11, Acts 4:32-35, Luke 7, Mark
        10:17-23, Romans 13:6-7, 1 John 3:17, Leviticus
        25:35, Isaiah
        10: 1-2, Amos 8:4-8, James 5:1-5, James 3:14-18, James 2:1-9, James
        1:9-11, Proverbs
        22:16, 22-23, Isaiah 3 13-15. Ezek. 16:49ff 2 Corinthians 8:13-15

        Galatians 5:13-15, Genesis 41:33-48, 1 Corinthians 10:24

        You CANNOT serve BOTH Ayn Rand and Jesus Christ. Because I am a liberal I serve and worship Jesus Christ and oppose the philosophy of Ayn Rand wherever I find it.

        • panors77

          Funny…..marx calls Christianity and all religion as the “opiate of the people”. YOu sir cannot serve karl marx and Jesus Christ.

    • Willi H.

      You, my dear sir, are a moronic libtard. See, you CAN be a moron without being a libtard, but you can’t be a libtard without being a moron.

      • Windel

        Only a closed minded fool, that’s trying to be a bully, uses childish name-calling…

      • doingmybest

        seriously? name calling? go take communications 101!

    • http://twitter.com/Inclusionista You Know My Name

      James you are right — correct, that is. Don’t even try with these people. They will bring you down to their level, and it isn’t worth it.

      • Stephen Bryce

        YNMN and James, have you ever once tried to just talk to a liberal, without being judgemental and insulting? Combined with trying to listen to them, instead of just assuming that anyone different is evil, it works wonders.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/5P5GUBIUZJUSUNBBPK55UYCALQ Helen

      None are so blind as those that will not see. It is impossible to convince a liberal of anything other than what they believe. It’s like talking to the wall.

      • hippty hoppy

        Amen Helen. But in time even the elements will reduce the tallest mountain will be to gravel.

      • MrModerateAZ

        One could say that it is impossible to convince anyone of anything other than what they believe, that is the general idea about belief of anything (world is flat, sun around the earth, gods, tooth fairy, Santa,…etc.) It is ok to not believe in gods and fairy tales. People die, end of story, not so scary.

    • hippty hoppy

      Ignorant galoot. We as believers in Yahweh and Yeshua have no need for someone who thinks they know what they are talking about, explain our beliefs to us.

      • MrModerateAZ

        Romans 4:85…thou shalt smite the galoots in my name…so it is written

    • Melanie

      James, this liberal Christian agrees with you. Articles like this piece of trash only serve to further damage Christianity, as folks look on with fear as my religion becomes more and more extremist and isolated. Reality check, my friends. To be a Christian, you must simply take up your cross and follow Christ. You must simply believe in God. Most simply, one must do two things – believe in the Lord, they God with all thy heart, and love thy neighbor as thyself. There is NOTHING in my Bible regarding American political parties or progressive, liberal values, any more than there are shout-outs for modern conservatism and Republicanism. There is alot in there about Jesus accusing rich people and tossing out money-lenders, providing free healthcare t the sick, wandering around homeless and jobless depending on ‘handouts’ from others, and accepting social outcasts that the establishment was demonizing – all liberal tendencies. There are many instances where Giles is off, but the biggest is in conflating ancient Biblical commands with his preferred form of politics. Leave that which is Casear’s to Casear, for crying out loud. In the end, however, Giles, what matters most is that you have no authority to question God’s decision to make me Christian. You have no righteous authority to sever me from Him, and I’d be most careful about which of His children you choose to attack and judge – He has been clear about reserving the right to judge to Himself. Christians are ascertained by God, not by you.

      • hippty hoppy

        Melanie what a mess of mish mash. Its is NOT enough to simply believe in Yahweh. Faith without works is death. Not matter how much you say you love Yeshua or Yahweh, on that day they will hear Him say I know you not.. As Yeshua said you can tell the tree by its fruit. You are correct that render unto CAESAR that which is CAESAR. And little do you know that Yahweh gives people the rulers they deserve. I feel you won’t understand that but oh well. You don’t understand so much. Another Phoney Christian White Liberal Trash trying to sneak in under the bar. Nice try, thanks for playing the game.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Strattan-White/100000182953502 David Strattan White

          hippty hoppy, you not only denied that Malanie was a Christian, I believe you just called her white trash. I think you meant to say that you disagree with her about your interpretation of the bible. And that while you understand that she has made a good point about Jesus’ acts of charity, you do not think that it is your duty to act on behalf of the Christ that you believe you know. We can disagree, but you have to stop hurling racial and socio-economical insults at people who you believe to be not Christian in your limited understanding of an infinite idea.

      • MsTooze

        Amen Melanie! Giles is not just on shaky ground, but sinking in quicksand. Christian = follower of Christ. It’s about relationship, not having ‘the correct’ political ideology. “Love one another.”

    • believe

      JAMES,
      No James your the Ignorant one, I Will along with TRILLIONS of AMERICANS , And I am grateful we have a HIGHER JUDGE than you or the People of your Mind SET.
      And show you how stupid you are you think his Article is Laughable.
      I can see all 193 people that agree with you are of your mindset.
      I took a second to read your comment and that was to long.

      • Xtian

        “TRILLIONS of AMERICANS”

        Even basic facts are beyond these folks.

    • http://www.monster-island.net/ kushibo

      Giles already has a prestigious career as an ordained minister:

      http://clashchurch.com/clash-ministry-team.html

    • bmytedbear

      James, I have a question for you. Give me the definition of Liberal, then tell me why God destroyed Sodom & Gomorrah. Because my good man the two highest ranking government officials (President & Vice-President) say their political view is that Sue & Mary or Tom & Jerry can marry. According to The Almighty He made Adam & Eve. Just a question.

      • doingmybest

        You are twisted!

        • bmytedbear

          Thanks, coming from you that’s a compliment.

      • doingmybest

        Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis) is a broad political ideology or worldview founded on the ideas of liberty and equality. Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally liberals support ideas such as capitalism (eitherregulated or not), constitutionalism, liberal democracy, free and fair elections, human rights and the free exercise of religion.

        I think the human rights part is the part you are against?

        • bmytedbear

          doingmybest reply
          I am simply stating a fact unless you believe that the Bible isn’t true. And I am not against anybody or thing that is legal. If gays want to be gay that is their business, not mine but I don’t need it stuck in my face on a constant basis. The leaders of America have more on their plate and that is getting the economy back on track. Unless you think that’s weird to.

      • http://www.nightphoenix.com Amaranth

        “Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.” Ezekiel 16:49

        • bmytedbear

          Thanks for the answer although I knew the answer myself I was hoping James would take the time to look it up. He never did.

    • May

      You,my friend, have drunk the koolaid! I am praying for you.

    • Bill Weston

      James; If you’re looking for responses, you have them. If you’re the least bit interested in the truth, consider the fact that you have two eyes and ears and only one mouth.

    • David

      Now James, you can’t fight fire with fire. If you’re going to provide a critical expose, you can’t respond with the same rhetoric you despise.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7FKFF5KJKX6N23BZ2LRRAZIDHA Felix

      Hey James, you’re showing your true colors. You are like the lambs being led to the slaughter. If you are able OPEN YOUR EYES.

    • mhojai

      “groundless propaganda” … pot meet kettle! Propagnda is ALL you lying clowns have!
      Tell you what, as an experiment, take a bath, borrow some clean clothes, don’t speak, but find a cross to wear around your neck, and go out among your “tolerant” friends..see how long you last!
      You and your ilk are what’s disgusting!

    • Light_V_Dark

      Jiminy Clicket Or Ticket···DON’T CUT IN LINE!¡

      Your favorite people, THE GAES, have an average lifespan of 39, if they contract AIDS. OTHERWISE, 45, for BOYS & GIRLS, BECAUSE OF MURDER, SUICIDE, ADDICTION ALL SORTS, HEP ALL SORTS, ET AL. Homophobia isn’t on the list!¡

      Homosexuals are now more than non-productive “sexual bums.” They are recruiting others, forming communities, beginning to mock and undermine the old pieties of loyalty to family, country, and God. THEY HAVE REDIFINED “GOOD” and “EVIL” and view with contempt the idea that honest work and sex within marriage are communal acts necessary for human survival.
      http://www.familyresearchinst.org/2009/02/the-psychology-of-homosexuality/

    • squeak7

      BS! Speaking of uneducated, take a look in the mirror. You obviously watch MSNBC/NBC (hate TV) and/or CNN (Communist News Network and or ABC, CBS as they all have an Obama agenda and you know it. At least Fox News attempts to do a Fair and Balanced approach and have both sides giving their opinions and allowing the viewers make up their minds for themselves, whereas people that watch the other networks and swallow all their BS are obviously “mind-number robots” who allow someone else to do their thinking for them, rather than pursue the “real facts” themselves by doing research. I have personally be the target of what Giles is talking about. My daughter-in-law teaches in Public Schools and close friend a Professor at UNC-CH. They will tell you what the agendas are in these institutions and pretty much agree with what Giles is talking about. You Libs just cannot stand to hear others opinions without demonizing them and calling those that agree with you names, just like Giles addresses in this article. I as a Christian do not hate you people, but have empathy for you and will pray for you to wake-up before it is too late. You just don’t get it, do you?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1453890564 Bruce W Carr

      if you know the Bible, you know Doug is correct.

    • http://www.facebook.com/igor.yesnopovich Igor Yesnopovich

      The problem with our country is that buffoons like you are allowed to have an opinion. Crawl back in your hole troll, and shut your hole. We have no room for Anti-American louts like you on Earth! If you don’t like what Giles writes then go away!

      BTW slap your stupid self silly while you are at it!

      • http://www.nealalanspurlock.com/ Neal Alan Spurlock

        Because people being free to have and express their opinions is totally anti-American. Our founders didn’t, you know, entrench the right to free speech in the founding document of our nation or anything.

        The problem with our country is that our educational system is purposely creating ignorant followers because they are easier to control…you can’t convince the majority of poor and working class people to consistently vote against their own interests if they actually understand what their interests are.

        There is the America of our narrative, the good, loyal, just, honest America that fills our stories and myths. The America of ideals, the very best America we could be. This is the America of “good guys” who would never exploit or murder for mere profits. This is the America I was brought up to love and respect…the “American Way” of Superman, that was the natural complement to truth and justice.

        Then there is the real America, where our leaders start wars for profit, create concentration camps, and send robots out to murder civilians and even American citizens with no due process. Where the government is bought and paid for by rich sociopaths, where our government spies on all of us, and where we’ve turned imprisoning people into a for-profit industry, to go along with war, murder, and oppression. This is the America that my patriotism and love of the true America forces me to criticize and hate those whom I should respect and love.

        I will love America as soon it exists again. So long as this evil twin, this war-mongering, exploitative, destructive, torturing, and murdering nation is around, however, the America I still love can never come back. We must repent the evils of greed, hatred, and slaughter…and set them aside, forever. Then, perhaps, the real America, the America that deserves love and loyalty, will return. Until then, I will hold vigil in its memory and remind people that BOTH parties have colluded, that evil–true evil–has perverted and twisted our ethics. The “good Christians” are cheering for letting sick people die and glorying in the massive destruction (and massive profits) of unnecessary, profiteering wars, while the “good Democrats” are assassinating citizens, sending killer robots to murder civilians, indefinitely detaining citizens without a trial or charge, and charging political protesters with felony terrorism. Both sides love and support torture, rendition, indefinite detention, and prosecuting whistle-blowers, and both sides love the banksters who have stolen billions from millions.

        You know what you get from decades and centuries of “voting for the lesser evil”? A system that can only produce evil, no matter which party is in power and no matter what the people do or want. Look at the actual policies and legislation from both parties…they both love the banks, they don’t care about the Constitution and ALL want more policies that violate our civil liberties and kill more of us in pointless foreign wars.

    • http://www.facebook.com/igor.yesnopovich Igor Yesnopovich

      BTW did I forget to call you STUPID ! ?

    • Me_in_Canada_eh

      The problem with your response to what Giles has said is that he had a near-death experience, saw heaven and hell and heard from Christ about the world today.

    • scottsgirl

      How is it bigotry?
      Definition of BIGOT
      : a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance..Is Giles devoted to his opinion? Yes…as i am sure you would be, and a liberal would be. Liberals are tolerant of all things and people…unless they are Christians or go against the Lib agenda. If it is immoral and goes against scripture then they will embrace it! As far as him having hatred for a racial group, this article does not portray that for a second. But I suppose calling a die hard conservative a “Bigot” is a knee jerk reaction…..so I can’t blame you;)

  • Olivia

    Jesus was.

  • http://www.facebook.com/karen.bergey Karen Myers Bergey

    sorry. I am both. Articles like this are not helping the faith. Luckily, the holy spirit does not need your help to woo hearts to the true gospel.

    • Sharon

      Right on, Karen!

    • Erin Jaye

      Amen, girl.

    • KD0084

      So you support faggot marriage and think Jesus Christ is proud of you. Go read the Bible again and to figure out what God will do to Homos.

  • Jen

    All of your other ridiculous points aside, that painting was not “smeared” with elephant dung. Check your facts. It was part of the media used in creating the painting and is often used in that part of the world to create art.

  • Kiko

    The hate you spew in this article is crazy. What kind of christian do you believe yourself to be? You conservatives are very against welfare and health care for the poor, when Jesus would feed and heal the poor free of charge. Again, you think you’re a good christian? Well think again, hypocrite.

  • Matt

    I lost your point because of the analogies. You had more analogies than . . . well, too many. But more than that, you lost me because you demonized — in “rabid, vapid” terms — your brother. Hard to make a case on Christian ethics when you circumvent those ethics.

  • Michael Case

    Didn’t know Jesus smoked cigars and carried a handgun…the size of which is very telling…

  • Robert Thomas

    “You can safely assume you’ve created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.”
    ― Anne Lamott

    “I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.”
    —Gandhi

    • http://www.facebook.com/william.powell William Powell

      Gandhi prayed to deitys with multiple arms!

      • windel

        Yet somehow he was able to lead a better life than you…

      • MrModerateAZ

        How crazy it that, how many arms does your deity have?

  • OgdenN00b

    What a sad, little man to have such a worldview.

  • Seth

    I refuse to believe all Christians are assholes as is being suggested.

  • Ares

    This is idiotic. Conservatives for the death penalty, and whom are also pro war, are against social welfare programs, want to make the rich, richer, and cut funding for planned parenthood on false claims that it uses government money to fund abortions when in reality it helps millions of young mothers, are so Christian.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Millard-Huff/100001533647046 Millard Huff

      AresYOU SIR ARE A DAMN LIEAR.

    • http://www.facebook.com/ralph.novak Ralph Novak

      Not sure sarcasm is that Christian, either. “WHOM are also pro-war”? Worried about the subliterate mistakes, are we?

    • a1NannaGail2u

      Ares: I went to a Planned Parenthood Clinic once, simply to find out if I WAS Pregnant. I was in my late forties the and they told me I could have an abortion if I was pregnant and wished to have an abortion, because it was dangerous at my age to have another child.
      I told them “No, I didn’t want an abortion, I just wanted to check to see if I WAS pregnant!” They asked me was my decision not to have an abortion A FINANCIAL decision, because, “I wouldn’t have to pay anything as the funds came from the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT!”
      My decision had nothing to do with finances OR WANTING/NOT WANTING an abortion.
      After they said that, I told them to forget the test and got up and left.

  • Bill

    You, sir, know nothing about Christianity. However, kudos on your knowledge of Republican propaganda.

    • Erin Jaye

      :)

    • emerutil

      It beats you liberal drivel hands down. I would accept the worst of their nonsense before i would ever allow myself to be poisoned by your mindset!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeremy-Gilbert/1120302142 Jeremy Gilbert

        I’m assuming you’re against Christianity then?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=2615417 Shannon Montgomery

    To be a Christian Liberal, in general, you have to be willing to read more than just the verse in Psalms that talks about how God had plans for David before he was born and the smattering of verses that are interpreted as calling homosexuality sinful. You have the read the *whole* thing, including the parts where prophets call down governments for not taking care of the poor and *gasp* the alien in their lands… You have to read the stuff about how you can’t serve God and money… you have to read the part about how Christ’s kingdom isn’t of this earth.

    And frankly, most Christians aren’t willing to sacrifice a dime for their faith. They may donate some money to something, so long as they can designate it–so, you know, they don’t have to support homeless gays or single moms.

    What’s really incompatible with Christianity?

    Ayn Rand. There is nothing in the world less compatible with Christianity than selfishness. If you’ve read the words of Jesus and you’ve read the words of Ayn Rand, you know: the two are bread and stones. Can’t mix ‘em.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=2615417 Shannon Montgomery

      You know, if I want to be charitable, I will say this: you cannot support Christendom and be a liberal. You can certainly be a progressive Christian, but you can’t support the idea of a “Christian Empire” that dates back to, mm, the third century or so and also be a progressive.

      • http://www.facebook.com/ralph.novak Ralph Novak

        When would “mm, the third century” be?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1193650425 Cynthia Almy Savage

      The truth is, the minute the government takes away the “charitable contribution” deduction, that’s the minute that you’ll see “Christian” conservatives STOP donating to the church.

      • Paceride

        Yeah they won’t be able to deduct the ONE dollar they put in the basket every week.

        • RFDeChaffescomb

          Unfortunately, the evangelical crowd will be giving huge amounts of cash to their curches no matter what. I used to write those sermons. It is the same line of snake oil hype that has been used for pyramid schemes for millenia.

        • http://www.facebook.com/ralph.novak Ralph Novak

          You’re forgetting the part about Conservatives causing acne, and vampire movies.

      • Alex

        Actually I’m a conservative Christian and I don’t even claim my charitable giving to my church as a deduction. Most people don’t.

    • http://www.facebook.com/ralph.novak Ralph Novak

      Ah! The Gospel According to Shannon. Think I missed that part.

    • Silent Political Yeoman

      You *can* mix bread with stones. You’ll just end up with broken teeth.

  • Eric

    Because I am a Christian, I do not vote. Neither presidential candidates stand for true Christian morals so I choose to not stand with them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/thomas.s.louis.7 Thomas St Louis

    I disagree but I guess we’d really have to begin with a definition of conservative and liberal that everyone agrees with. For me, liberalism is being non-judgemental and treating your neighbor as yourself….totally in line with my Christian beliefs….Conservatives seems to be a religion of self…a celebration of self with complete disrespect for governing authorities and unwillingness to bow down to God, Govt or anything else…a me, myself and I mentality that says stupid things like “pull yourself up by your own bootstraps” & “only you can help yourself”

  • Sean

    This guy, is an idiot.

  • FloridaBoi32

    Mr. Giles, if you die before me, can you let me know what hell is like?

  • margaret

    I think you do not know the difference between a liberal, a progressive and a secularist. There are people who have no religious education, people who have had some, and people who have had a lot. And then there are the folks who don’t believe, have faulty or immature beliefs, and then there are the folks that are true believers, They are knowledgeable and congruent in their life and belief. I read your stuff and your writing jumps all over the place and clearly you are angry. Of course, one can be a “liberal” and a Christian. The right wing conservative people have a hard time with that because they are people of the LAW. They have RULES that they say are Bible based. Rigid in their thinking, cold in their hearts. They love only what agrees with them. I call them Pharisees, locked into the rules of purity, law, power, and maintaining the status quo. It may or may not work for you. I will continue to show people a different way.

    • emerutil

      I call liberals communists, socialists, and leftists. Despicable

  • FloridaBoi32

    Mr. Giles, if you die before me, can you let me know what hell is like?

  • http://www.facebook.com/john.burton.3158 John Burton

    He invokes scripture to back up his argument, and yet he doesn’t quote a single line. I sometimes really wonder if any of those on the Religious Right actually read the Bible. It’s not about being right or wrong in this case, it’s just about being lazy.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=699882664 Roy-Wayne Mays

    John 16:12 – Jesus said, “There is so much more I want to tell you, but you can’t bear it now.” There was a lot more love, justice, grace, and understanding that the world wasn’t ready for in 34 CE.

  • K baker

    You have made God in your own image, with every word you just wrote. Living by the book is not the only way to be a Christian. Jesus stepped away from the beliefs of His day…it is absolutely necessary to reassess our priorities as Christians. What was valued may not be today..what was not valued may be. Life changes, the world changes…everything God created is constantly changing! Don’t sit on your high horse and place judgement on people you know nothing about. You don’t know me, or my family. It is possible, and even plausible to be a liberal AND a Christian.

  • Sharon

    What no Bible quotes? Certainly not, since Jesus would not support such views. It’s these kinds of statement that make Christians look bad!

  • Ryan

    Good lord, this article is full of colorful metaphors to rile up like-minded readers and void of anything remotely close to, or in-line with, what Jesus advocated in scripture. The author is completely delusional.

  • bob

    This is pure horse shit.

  • Rev T

    Wake up and learn the difference between politics and religion. Your faith can influence your politics but when it’s the other way around like in this twisted article you only perpetuate confusion and lies. In other words you become the ‘false prophet’ scripture warns against. Read the bible a nd discover that Jesus was a radical fighting against pharasitical ideals and institutions exactly akin to what so many right Wing Rebublican ‘Christians’ promote. Jesus was radical at the time because he fought against the system of oppression to the poor and disenfranchised. In other words he was a socialist. Like it or not.

  • Joris Heise

    These are lies. Simple lies. By denials, by distortions, by rash judging, by omissions, by projection, by ideology–everything contributes to this series of simple, ordinary, matter-of-fact falsehoods. No Christian who reads Scripture and honors the traditions and respects fellow children of the One Father would ever say the lies in this article. I am sorry to say. No anger, but “get behind me, Satan,” with some laughter at the absurdity of the charges here. The author has no idea of what a true liberal person is.

    • emerutil

      A liberal is one who takes my hard earned money to give to programs I detest, and to support the undeserving.

      • MrModerateAZ

        I betcha you didn’t work too hard for it, huh? Getting those checks every month still?

  • Martin

    Wow, what a poorly written article. Not once citation from the Bible for all these silly claims (which sort of tells you something about the credibility of the claim being made)

  • Keith

    What an idiotic, ignorant statement. Trying reading something besides the bible, just to shed a little light on it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1093890083 Aaron Gipson

    I think he means you can’t be a judgmental, warmongering, right wing evangelical Christian and be a liberal.

  • Frothingslosh

    “If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn’t help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was as selfish as we are, or we’ve got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit we just don’t want to do it.”

    • Legion

      The US is the MOST charitable nation in the HISTORY of the Earth! Mostly because of Conservative Republicans. Disaster after disaster have proven we are so your premise, like most of the other comments here, are WRONG!!!!

      • Kev

        Hardly. The US gives the most a mount of money simply because of it’s size. Per head it gives the least. In 2008 the US gave 0.2% of it’s GDP in the form of aid. The lowest of all the OECD countries. Those who gave most were the ‘socialist’ countries like Sweden, Norway, The Netherlands…

      • Frothingslosh

        Yes, I can see how you could see decades of opposition to Welfare, Social Security, civil rights, and the like as charity. Wait, no I can’t. Since you claim that all the comments here have been proven wrong, I await your proof with bated breath, even if you HAVE chosen to name yourself after a man possessed by two thousand demons.

  • Graeme

    1) How is this edifying? 2) Is not reaching someone who does not know Christ a higher priority than criticizing the faith of another? 3) Your posting policy wants people to be courteous, yet this post is filled with name-calling on numerous occasions. As a fellow Christian, I would encourage you to stop casting stones as we are all sinners and start doing something rather than blame others to change this country.

  • TruthBtold

    Jesus lived in Roman ruled terriorty. Society worshipped many different gods and goddesses. Homosexuality was so rampant and accepted (Roman bath houses) most historians do not not even consider it worth mentioning……. and abortion? They had a very prominent parental law called “ius vitae ac necis” which meant a father had absolute authority sell his kids into slavery or KILL them..whichever he chose. Killing quite often happened with illegitimate children that the father did not want to acknowledge.This kind of stuff was going on all around Jesus and He said ABSOLUTELY nothing about it in the gospels. Instead he focused on preaching the gospel to the poor, healing the sick, feeding the hungry and teaching people how to transform their lives. If we are going to call ourselves CHRISTians should we not be focusing on doing the things CHRIST did? The only people Jesus sharply rebuked and judged were highly religious people who thought that only THEY were the ones righteous while everyone else was sinful and lost. NOTE: He did not even rebuke people caught in the very act of blatant sin…… Just judgmental religious “so called righteous” people.

  • Marta

    This is exactly the kind of c#&p that is turning people away from fundamental Christendom in masses…Who are you to speak for God based on your intepratation of the Bible???? God has asked us to put one another above ourselves, and most of all to love, especially those who are the hardest to love. It is people like you that assure me that I am on the right track as a Liberal Christian. I pray that you will quit mixing up your opinion with that of Gods, but I do appreciate the hoards of people you are ushering over to exploring Liberal Christian life,

    • emerutil

      Liberal; Christian. Greatest oxymoron!

  • Ahab

    Come on guys, who wouldn’t love a county were everyone worships the same religion, the rules of God are the law, and God himself is supremely in charge? Mr. Giles I suggest you pack your bags for Iran, you’d love it.

  • larry b

    The Tea
    Party/Republicans do no more than throw a bone to lure Christians to support
    their Corporatist values!

    I was reading
    different books by Garrison Keillor and Charles Stanley, they revealed much of
    this that I wrote. What bewilders me about Republicans is the coalition of the
    greedy Corporatist wing of the GOP party and the Bible wing of Religious Right,
    two groups supposedly with little in common; I mean one covets wealth while the
    other is supposed to share God’s wealth. But the Bible wing (the deceived) supplies
    the votes so that the Corporatists (the deceivers) can take most of the booty.
    The Corporatists get tax cuts and deregulations that increase the corporate
    profits and the Bibleists get a few vague gestures on symbolic issues such as
    Gay rights, prayer in schools, and abortions. Like the Pharisees, the Bibleists
    enjoy “public” displays of religion. These leaders of the extreme Religious Right,
    whom seek self-edification, excite and rile up their followers to the issues by
    talking about God or the Holy Spirit speaking to them, which is always about
    and in favor of tax cuts, less government, right to carry arms, stopping
    entitlements, and preemptive military action. The Holy Spirit never comes out
    in favor of anything without clearing it with the Republican Party. What about the Holy Spirit speaking about the
    Word of God? Never do you hear Religious Right leaders or Republican leaders say
    the Holy Spirit spoke about love, compassion, kindliness, caring for others, praying,
    serving, giving to the poor, the needy, or the helpless (Deuteronomy 15:11)! Why, because that would edify God, not
    themselves. I
    don’t know about you, but my Bible, which is God’s Word, speaks and commands us
    to love, be kind, and serve our brothers in need, 1 John 3:17-18, Proverbs
    14:21 & 31, Luke 12:48, 1 Timothy 6:18, Ephesians 4:11-13, Amos 4:6 and
    Matthew 28:16-20 are just a few commands from God. Biblical Christianity (not
    to be confused with tainted, politicized, or hypocritical forms of Christianity
    that bear no resemblance to the life and message of Jesus Christ) is a far cry
    from the Bibleists wing deceived by the Tea Party/Republicans of today. Ask
    yourselves, why did Jesus come to earth for mankind, to be served, or to serve?
    If your answer is anything but to serve, you are in deep trouble. The Bibleists
    vow to put God back in the public schools, as if He were a small plaster icon
    and not the Creator of the universe that is here, there, and everywhere! My God is wherever I need him to be, at
    school, work, or at home, and laws can’t stop him from coming, nor you or
    anybodyelse. Pharisee prayer is simply a political speech that is addressed to
    God, as if he needed instructions. It’s a show that gets attention for those in
    need of self-edification. Who are the Pharisees today? Who quotes Scriptures
    edifying themselves and claim boldly that they are Christians, then turn around
    and persecute the poor? Who is it
    claiming the poor does not deserve “Entitlements” and at the same moment vote
    to extend the tax breaks to the wealthy? Who is it that brings guns to
    political rallies rather than peaceful love from God? When you try to find love
    of Christ at work in the Republican Party, it may take you awhile. The
    Christian Coalition is a Republican front with about as much to do with the
    Christian faith as the Elks Club have to do with large hoofed animals. And that
    is the Republican Party: its Christianity is about half fake because it scorns
    Jesus’ command to love thy neighbor as thyself and it abuses any who take the
    commandments seriously. Ask yourselves if the policies of your politicians are
    the policies of Jesus Christ? Remember, God gives ALL the free will to love,
    obey and serve Him, so don’t be so quick to take those same rights from those
    that choose to do what we call sin. God will judge, don’t you try to take God’s
    place. When I speak about the Bibleists,
    the Religious Right Wing, or the Christian Coalition, I define them as not Christian
    only with this statement: The righteous person is not self-righteous, or
    externally moralistic. Rather, he looks to God’s promises and unchanging
    character as the basis for his right standing before his Creator-Judge. There
    are people that claim to be Christians for whatever reason, then a smaller
    group that are Believers that believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior, BUT then
    there is even a smaller group that are Followers of Jesus Christ; they are the
    ones that live as best as they can within the Bible, serving others not taking
    from others, loving others without hateful words, caring for others not turning
    their heads away from the poor, not slandering others but sharing with others,
    not self-righteous but look at God’s righteousness, and not moralistic but
    forgiving of others.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_W5PYVKQUEKIWMA7HZNTBKV7HN4 Mayme

      Look at the Pharisees bank account and their high style of living.

      “”Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2″The scribes and the Pharisees teach with Moses’ authority. 3So be careful to do everything they tell you. But don’t follow their example, because they don’t practice what they preach. 4They make loads that are hard to carry and lay them on the shoulders of the people. However, they are not willing to lift a finger to move them.5″They do everything to attract people’s attention. They make their headbands large and the tassels on their shawls long. 6They love the place of honor at dinners and the front seats in synagogues. 7They love to be greeted in the marketplaces…

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/NUQFYVRWPLKP2IG4UO5C3CLI3E Kelley Harper

    All your little bullet points would be suuuuper scary if you had ANY evidence of this.
    Also, Mr. Giles please find me even one instance of our founding fathers asserting that this nation’s “rock solid foundation” is in any way based on Christianity. I, however have this for you:
    The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
    – Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82

    You are a scared, sad little person who is afraid of change because you enjoy having the upper hand in our society. Kindly refrain from touting the assumed beliefs of our founding fathers to absolve yourself of the guilt that comes along with being “Christian” and hateful.
    I am completely offended by your assertion that my faith is just a “claim” that I make and that I have a “supposed” relationship with God. Jesus Christ saved me so that I could spread HIS love, not the fear and judgement of overly-comfortable white men. BTW, I’m sure Jesus just LOVES the NRA and is totally in favor of us pouring money into defense and weaponry when you know, children in this country are starving. You sir, have a strange view of the man that died for your sins and I will in no way tolerate your presuming that I am not a follower of Christ simply because I believe that Jesus doesn’t agree with you.

  • hollie

    you’re nuts.

  • truthprevails

    Not sure a republican can be a Christian when those fellows protect the extreme wealthy and make cuts to the needy, promote a national debt through war, and include Christianity as a base for issues that are civil law so that everyone in America can obey without prejudice. Republicans have very little respect for the earth and air, making profit and deregulation supreme. They also do not care about the sick and elderly, by taking away the progress that has been made with healthcare and social security. No, republicans could not even come close to being Christ like.

  • almaginnes

    I can assure whoever wrote this that Christians are just as welcome in public schools as members of any other faith. His problem is that Christians are no longer allowed to practice their faith to the exclusion of all others in public schools.

    This is one of the more ridiculous things I’ve wasted my time on today.

  • larry b

    The deceivers and the deceived!

    As folks start to realize things, they will find out that
    the Tea Party/Republicans are only interested in using ‘church’ as a tool to
    obtain power and/or to self-edify themselves.
    I wrote an article last year about this very thing that the GOP &
    religion do not mix; one is about Capitalism and the other is anti-Capitalism.
    One is about taking for YOU while the other is about giving to OTHERS. I still
    have that article if you are interested. It’s like mixing oil and water, oil
    will always float to the top, it can burn like a fiery furnace, and it destroys
    the habitat it touches; while water will submit, has a cool refreshing feeling
    to others, and gives sustaining life to all. These are two very different bed
    partners in the same bed with two very different agendas, supposedly. The
    deceiver and the deceived! The Tea Party/Republicans and the Christian Right!
    One for tax breaks for the rich and persecuting the poor, the other supposedly
    about distributing wealth and helping those less fortunate, one violates the
    Bible and Jesus teaching, while the other lives by the Word and Jesus
    teachings, supposedly.

    How do two such opposites attach to one another? Is it
    that one deceives the other to a degree that the lesser conforms to actions
    opposing their beliefs? Or is the Christian Right, the Christian Coalition; the
    Pharisees of the days of Jesus, today? Why would the so-called Christians of
    the ‘Right’ tie a knot with a political party that opposes the commands of
    Jesus? 236 times in the Bible the poor, the helpless, the needy are mentioned
    (that’s 1 verses in 9 in the New Testament) and this seems to be the most
    focused point in the Bible other than salvation. But yet the Christian Right
    has focused on other issues such as birth control, abortions, women rights, and
    homosexuality rather than the love, compassion, caring and serving others that
    Jesus Himself set an example to do, why? Why would Followers of Jesus stop
    helping the least of His children; why stop government programs helping the
    least of His children; why stop helping the needy helpless elderly with Social
    Security, Medicare, Medicaid, when they are the least of His children? Why stop
    helping the helpless young children whom Jesus set higher than adults by taking
    away government programs for the least of His children?

    Now you say it’s not the government’s responsibility to
    help the poor, the needy, and the helpless with YOUR tax dollars; that it is the
    church’s responsibility! As a Christian I say you are wrong, because what is
    the government if the government is not the people of the society? Even if you
    are not a Christian, it is the responsibility of society! By using MY taxes
    dollars to help the less fortunate, then I feel that OUR society, OUR
    government, OUR America is following the guidance of Jesus.

    • Wisesage

      It might be a good idea for you to talk to some of these ‘tea party’ people before you make the kinds of baseless claims you’re spouting off on here.

  • Ryan Doc Dougherty

    Could the author of this article have a worse understanding of the Gospel? Short answer – No.

  • LaurieInSeattle

    Re-read Matthew 25. You can be a conservative or a Christian, but not both.

    • LaurieInSeattle

      Or maybe I should say “read Matthew 24.” Since you’ve obviously not read it previously.

  • Dave

    Thus is one of the most ignorant things I’ve ever read. I want my 10 minutes back.

  • Spuds

    Analogies anyone? Poorly written, poorly researched and a complete and utter waste of time. Crawl back in your hole and keep your lies to yourself.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1524648211 Megan Wiseman

    You need to read “Stealing Jesus: How Fundamentalism Betrays Christianity” by Bruce Bawer. Either you are a fundamentalist yourself, or you have fallen prey to their pack of lies. The truth is, the doctrinal travesty that is fundamentalism was essentially created wholecloth in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, as a direct reactionary response to Darwin’s theory of evolution. Their claims of “tradition” actually are completely false. As to liberals “torturing Scripture”…excuse me, are you deaf as well as ignorant?? Fundamentalists ignore most of the New Testament for the most part, focusing most of their diatribe on the most punitive parts of the Old Testament. Not only that, they ignore those parts of the Old Testament that don’t make sense to them or are inconvenient and cherry-pick the parts that support their ridiculous and bigoted views.
    Not only is it possible to be a liberal Christian, liberal socially conscious action has a long, long history within the Church as a whole. Take a look at St. Francis sometime–that was a true social liberal, following in the steps of Christ himself. And maybe you should review the actual teachings of Jesus in the New Testament, because your article seems to have missed most of his point.

  • Joe Cogan

    I’m genuinely puzzled over whether this site is a parody or not. Help me out, anyone…?

  • Dominy Marveux-Garbeau

    H blank

  • Jennifer Gallagher

    do you people actually believe this ?

  • LOTJ

    AHAHAAAA. This was AWESOME! Better satire than Life of Brian!

    Wait. What?

    He was serious? Oh.

    Yikes.

  • Tim Williams

    I am a nurse, I am a Texan, I am a Christian, I am a Liberal. When I saw this, I was really hoping you would have included some scripture to show me the “error of my ways.” But, as most conservatives continueally do, you failed. To drag Christ in the political into the political forefront does a major disservice to Christ. He was a religious figure, not a political one. All you wrote was personal philosophy and a series of statements. Perhaps you would like a theocracy as a form of government, like in Iran or Saudi Arabia. I don’t because that’s what happens when religion becomes political. However, if you would like to sit down and let me show you the error you YOUR ways, just get in touch.

  • Will Haight

    Breathtakingly stupid.

  • http://www.mistysplace.org Michael Powe

    Well, the most significant feature of this screed is that it connects to no scripture as the basis for its claims. Jesus, as far as recorded in the Gospel, uttered no opinions about abortion, homosexuality, political parties or the size of government. I’m pretty sure he drove the moneylenders out of the temple (although, there’s a story behind that); and he most famously stated “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s.” He advised his disciples, “No man may serve two masters,” — meaning, choose between wealth and God — and warned them, “And whenever you pray, do not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, so that they may be seen by others.” Matt. 6:5 The apostle Paul, on whose writings most of modern Christian doctrine is based, was not favorable toward democratic governments and abjured his followers from rebelling against unjust rulers.

    “Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’” Matt. 25:41-43

    And there, the King just described unrepentant modern American conservatives … and their fates.

    mp

  • http://www.facebook.com/mo.thompson.73 Mo Thompson

    galatians 2:15-21. i say this as a christian. read it for yourselves. do not trust in the teachings of people with agendas that you do not understand. Jesus IS the Word of God.

  • Mark H

    Mr. Giles,
    Does it bother you in the least that Mitt Romney is a Mormon? What does the Bible say about adding/subtracting from the scripture the way the Mormon religion does? (Hint: And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take
    away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which
    are described in this book. Rev. 22:19 NIV)

    In your words, you conflate politics and faith and my conservative Christian brothers and sisters, while I will not go so far as you to claim that they cannot be both Christan and conservative, are backed into a tiny corner where they attempt to regulate the choices of others as articles of their faith, made manifest in the world. It’s like supporting Dan Cathy COO of Chik-Fil-A is somehow standing up for the gospel.

    Final Question: What about your words here are advancing the Kingdom of God by making anyone who is not a Christian (and by that I think YOU mean anyone who lines up with your politics) want to become one?

    Final thought on your post: You should be glad if the world is as you say, that godless liberals have run amok stealing your religious freedoms. Matt 5:10 “Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” (KJV)
    OR
    James 1:2 “Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds,” (NIV)

  • MGP

    I know Christian Democrats, who do good works, mind their home and community and church, and vote their concience for the best person for the job. I don’t think Jesus would approve of this kind of sermon on politics. He was above that, and we should be too.

  • R. Guldin

    Matthew 25:31-36
    Then he will say to those, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

    It sounds like Jesus wanted nothing to do with the Republican Party and its favoritism of the rich and the exploitation of their fellow people in the name of generating their own wealth. But what do I know, I’m just a priest.

  • Cesar Perez

    where in the bible does it say to start wars, protect the rich, start more wars, blame poor people for everything, kill gays, treat women like shit, etc.

  • Paul Frazier

    I think that Giles is refuted on every page of the New Testament. I do not see the Jesus of the Gospels in this apology for Ayn Rand’s perversion of philosophy. I cannot imagine the kind of a church which would be a good venue for this Love-less and Grace-less disciple. This is the kind of distorted and perverted merging of extreme rightwing political ideology with an individualistic view of the Gospels. There is simply the foolish idea that God hates the same people he hates, revealing that Giles has simply made God in Giles’ own image.
    There is no love of neighbor, no community, no call to serve. This is the kind of man who builds crosses and does not carry them.

  • Jennifer from North Alabama

    Dear Doug, you as a fallible human being do not get to judge who is a Christian and who is not. That is God’s job, and last time I checked, He doesn’t need any help. Love, a proud, smart, happy Christian who also happens to be a Liberal

  • molly

    Since we are mixing politics and religion here, I would like to know what Mr. Giles opinion is of the Satanic church’s admission that its belief system is “Ayn Rand’s philosophy with ceremony added”–considering so many republicans like Reagan, Paul Ryan, Clarence Thomas, etc… have been vocal admirers of Rand’s body of work.

  • Heidi

    I am so disgusted with this vitriolic tripe. The fundamentalist conservatives are facing a society where people tolerate each other’s differences, and they call that losing their religious freedom. What you are really saying is that you are losing your dominant edge over everyone, and that makes you feel as if you are losing your rights. Let me tell you something: I’m neither a liberal nor a conservative, but rights are rights according to our constitution. You have every right to practice your religion, as has every other American. No one wants to shove you into a corner or limit you. You ARE, however, expected to recognize that you live here with many other people. It’s not a problem for the rest of us, why is it a problem for you?

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_W5PYVKQUEKIWMA7HZNTBKV7HN4 Mayme

      OMG! love your comment.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1193650425 Cynthia Almy Savage

    LOL-our Founding Fathers were deists and considered “Christians” to be blasphemers….If you feel compelled to “protect God” from mere humans, you are a blasphemer, as well…..this “article” is dribble and an affront to God. Read your New Testament next time.

  • FoxValleySpirit

    What a load of horseshit. You realize of course that you do NOT represent a true “Christian” in any sense of the word. In fact, you are a Philistine.

  • divadarya

    ..and this is what is wrecking the brand called “Christian”

  • Paceride

    How come I never see a post or article with this slant that doesn’t have all kinds of smarmy self aggrandizing language?

  • BillBB

    What a bunch of crap

  • devrie

    Unless you are the sole authority on the voice of God, this article is bunk. How do some conservative Christians pick which messages from God to rally hatred political agendas? Why only some message and not others?
    “If you lend money to one of my people among you who is needy, do not be like a moneylender; charge him no interest.”—That one, they dismiss, but the historical context of homosexuality is widely debated among those that have researched the linguistics of the original biblical words that are possibly related to homosexuality. When Jesus took the fish from his disciples to create more food for the people, they protested at first. That’s a very social act a bit like taxation. If you chose to interpret the Bible as your preacher defines the verses, that’s fine. You may call yourself a Christian, but don’t define Christianity for everyone else by dismissing their IQ’s and their ability to research the historical context of the verses and their ability to draw their own conclusions with the power of prayer.

  • http://twitter.com/fullmoonmidget Megan Ronway

    I don’t think you know what that means.

  • $12391286

    Oy vey. The incredibly false points here.

    1. The bible does not say “thou shalt place the ten commandments outside thine courthouse.” Nor does the bible celebrate Christmas, Good Friday, or Easter. Those are holidays created by the church, which came into being long after the bible was written. Christianity does not demand that the state recognize its religious holidays, it doesn’t need to. Those holidays exist for the participants in the religion, not for anyone outside of the religion. The fact that you demand that the state sanction your religion shows that you don’t understand the concept of religious liberty, in fact, by this very point you show that religious liberty is antithetical to you.

    2. Secularism is a good thing. We have a secular government because America had experience with the British sectarian government and decided sectarian government was deeply problematic at best. But since you are opposed to the secular government that our founding fathers instituted, please answer this question: which sect? Which sect should be made the official religion? Catholicism? Orthodox Judaism? Islam? Of course by opposing a secular government, once again you have proven that you are deeply committed to a war on religious liberty.

    Now as to your other point. Christianity does not demand that the public school system (which wasn’t created until over a thousand years after Christianity began) be Christian. Of course you are, in fact, wrong about the schools discriminating against Christian students. Most schools have plenty of afterschool activities that are run as Christian organizations. In fact, the Religious Right passed a law that forced schools to provide accommodation to Christian clubs (which accidentally forced schools to provide accommodation for gay clubs, but that’s just a humerus digression).

    3. Our last fifty something presidents have all been openly Christian, and virtually every elected official gets sworn in on some sort of holy book.

    4. This point doesn’t even make sense. The two sentences do not have any real connection. The church is not a part of the private sector, so I guess you are talking about businesses not allowing aggressive evangelism during the workday. True, because most businesses are… secular and just want their employees to work, not fight over religious matters. The second sentence does not even begin to make sense as none of those things are actually possible. At best you can say that liberals don’t allow conservatives to make statements without criticizing them. But that’s freedom of speech, and freedom to criticize is, perhaps, the most important liberty of all.

    5. Did you know that Rome collapsed within 100 years of becoming a Christian civilization? In fact, this lovely little section is claiming that liberals will not engage in censorship Good for liberals for supporting freedom of speech.

    Actually what “liberalism” clashes with is not Christianity, but your authoritarianism. Note how this list is simply a list of complaints that America is not theocratic, sectarian government that stifles opposition and freedom of expression. There’s quite literally nothing in here that actually shows any sort of philosophical divide between liberals and Christians (probably because there is none), rather it is just the ranting of an exceptionally socially privileged person complaining that the world is not conforming to his belief system.

  • TECUMSEH

    This is idiotic. Have you actually read the bible? Where in it does Jesus tell us to create a “christian” or even Jewish government? Do you not understand that separation of church and state is the reason christianity has thrived? Obviously you DO NOT understand that Jesus was a JEWISH revivalist, and that the core of judaism has ALWAYS been the “social gospel”, ie – economic justice, a balance of individual rights and community duties, taboo on usury, forgiveness of debts every year, charity, etc etc. Your ignorance is staggering.

  • Melinda

    Mr. Giles, you give the rest of us Christians a bad name with this diatribe. I am further offended by your besmirching of our constitution and the form of government set forth therein. Our nation was specifically founded on religious tolerance and the strong belief that government should not dictate faith, nor should faith dictate government. If you believe faith should determine the course of government, you need to be prepared for the government to determine the course of faith. No thank you – I don’t want my church in my government or my government in my church. May God bless and keep you and hopefully assist you in seeing the errors in your thinking.

  • PaulofTarsus

    Conservatives frequently embrace Ayn Rand as their role model. Ayn Rand hated Christianity, was a huge supporter of abortion on demand, and modeled her novel’s hero on a child killer. So how can a Christian be a conservative?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TxCWbTqz9s

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1540441248 Soma Kaplan Cassady

    Unbelievable how you manage to convince whole swaths of people that Christianity is under attack when you look around and all you see is Christianity everywhere. This is such bizzare bullshit – Jesus was not a judgemental asshole as far as my readings go – maybe I am reading the wrong Bible?????

  • Bearzee

    Ah, but right-wing Christians yoke with the followers of the atheist Ayn Rand when they support the greedy aspirations of billionaires to eliminate the middle class. At every tea Party rally, you see “Who is John Galt?” signs. This is the opening line of Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand, who called “Christianity the “kindergarten of Communism” and faith the greatest vice of mankind. Ayn Rand opposed altruism of the kind that Jesus practiced, regardless of the practitioner. Ayn Rand’s disciples include(d) Reagan, Milton Friedman (architect of Reaganomics), Alan Greenspan (appointed by Bush I), Ben Bernancke (appointed by Bush II), Paul Ryan, Clarence Thomas, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Ron Johnson, Rand Paul, and Sarah Palin (who autographs as many copies of Rand’s books as her own). The greatest trick of Satan has been to dupe Christians into doing his work by this unholy matrimony. WHERE does Christ advocate torture, war, owning (much less using) deadly force, trampling on the poor and unfortunate, and promulgating lies (remember when Amway got Falwell to conduct a crusade lying that P&G was in league with the devil in order to take business away?). No, you cannot be a Christian and conservative. To be a conservative, you have to serve Ayn Rand. You CANNOT serve BOTH Ayn Rand and Jesus Christ.

    A Baylor University Study found that people who actually read the Bible became more liberal. http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2011/october/survey-bible-reading-liberal.html. For those of you who actually read a Bible, here is a collection of passages: Luke 3:11, Acts 2:44-45: 2
    Samuel 12:1-5, Matthew 19:24, Matthew 5:1-11, Acts 4:32-35, Luke 7, Mark
    10:17-23, Romans 13:6-7, 1 John 3:17, Leviticus
    25:35, Isaiah
    10: 1-2, Amos 8:4-8, James 5:1-5, James 3:14-18, James 2:1-9, James
    1:9-11, Proverbs
    22:16, 22-23, Isaiah 3 13-15. Ezek. 16:49ff 2 Corinthians 8:13-15, Galatians 5:13-15, Genesis 41:33-48, 1 Corinthians 10:24.

    Finally, do you like to recite the Pledge of Allegiance? It was written by Francis Bellamy. Francis Bellamy (1855 – 1931), a devout socialist and Baptist minister created the Pledge of Allegiance for the Boston based Youth’s Companion
    in 1892. Youth’s Companion was a nationally circulated family-oriented
    publication, and by 1892 was the largest publication of any type in the United States, with a circulation around 500 thousand.

    Like the “WWJD” idea? Charles Sheldon’s 1896 book, In His Steps was subtitled “What Would Jesus Do?”[1] Sheldon’s novel grew out of a series of sermons he delivered in his Congregationalist church in Topeka, Kansas. Unlike the previous nuances mentioned above, Sheldon’s theology was shaped by a commitment to Christian Socialism. The ethos of Sheldon’s approach to the Christian life was expressed in this phrase “What Would Jesus Do”, with Jesus being a moral example as well as a Saviour figure.[2] Sheldon’s ideas coalesced with those that formed into the Social Gospel espoused by Walter Rauschenbusch. Indeed Rauschenbusch acknowledged that his Social Gospel owed its inspiration directly to Sheldon’s novel, and Sheldon himself identified his own theology with the Social Gospel.

    Jesus would not be a conservative. He would say the same things about the Republicans and “Christian Right” (which is neither) that he said about the Pharisees.

    You cannot be a Christian and a modern conservative.

  • Hermes

    as a follower of Hellinismos and someone who is generally annoyed by most Christians i meet(i live in the south) i have to say this guys is nuts. to the Christians who commented on this story, thank you, the world needs to see more Christians like you and then maybe Christianity would not have such a poor public image.

  • Ben Solis

    You know the founding fathers were Deists, not Theists, right? Meaning that they believed in God, but believed that our existence was so futile that he bounced out to form more universes — unlike the theological belief that God is still watching over us, judging us, or even cares about us. So in essence, most of what you’re saying here is null by that fact alone. The founding fathers were as afraid of zealots, fanatics and religious crusaders as they were tyrannical governments. In many of their notes, they equate them as one and the same, and showed a deep discouragement of that seeping into our political system. That’s why the proposed religious freedom: not as a protection for Christianity and its inclusion in our politics, but to shun such a notion.

  • http://www.facebook.com/crazycomposer Peter Amsel

    Let’s see – if it’s impossible to be a Christian and a “liberal” … oh my – I don’t exist! I knew there was something wrong when I woke up this morning … oh, wait – I distinctly remember feeding my cat, and I just did a bunch of editing on a project I’m working on … no, I definitely exist. Oh, and on top of that, I was ordained as a minister of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus in 1999 – so, I’m fairly certain that my beliefs have not only been expressed in private, but also in public, from several pulpits.

    Christianity is antithetical to the government of the day – it stands in opposition to the norm as we see when the Word tells us that we are not to be conformed to the world but transformed – that’s the problem with Christians today, they want to be IN the world and part of it as well – but – we were told that we would be persecuted for His name – we were told that things would get bad – but we’d rather they not – we’d prefer they be nice and comfortable – we’d prefer that the church retains its charitable status and avoids paying taxes while the rest of society (theoretically) carries our weight. Well, the Lord said “render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and unto God what is God’s” – that was about the paying of taxes – what makes anyone think the church shouldn’t pay taxes? It SHOULD! It should pay property tax and tax on ALL of its income, just like any other business, because that’s what the churches have become – especially those in North America – they are MASSIVE businesses. You want to make money? It’s a question that L. Ron Hubbard asked – start a religion – he did – Scientology. With a charitable status they make untold amounts of money – tax free.

    Any time you see the church getting along really well with the government of the land you should know that the church of that land has lost its relevancy – it has grown lifeless for the true church poses a threat to the status quo – the true church raises up a membership that will not stand for social injustice, inequality, poverty, and any number of the issues that are taken for the norm these days.

    It is all sadly pathetic – but – the assertion that Christians cannot – or should not – be Liberals – that is the stupidest thing that I’ve ever heard. Jesus was a proto-socialist for crying out loud. What did He do during His earthly ministry? Not much – fed the poor (for free), healed the sick (for free), stopped a court from carrying out an execution (for every sin in the book – if you break one Law you’ve broken them ALL). On top of that He made wine at a wedding, recognized a women’s place in the ministry, and raised Lazarus from the dead (amongst other things). He also paid His taxes and rebuked the religious zealots of the day.

    Christianity is NOT about being religious – it is about having a relationship with the Lord – about having a relationship with our Father – through Jesus.

    If that’s being “Liberal” then Praise the Lord! I’m guilty as charged – but … so is the Lord!

  • trying2breasonable

    Ignorant is the kindest thing I can say. How sad that these people can’t seem to separate the 2000+ year old teachings of Christ from our mere 230+ year old form of government. How in the world can they possibly link the two? Such poor scriptural scholarship, poor critical thinking skills, and general intellectual numbness! Sad, very sad.

  • Erin Jaye

    This is nothing but a hateful rant full of name-calling aimed at propagating fear and more ignorance about what social liberalism actually is. There are no meaningful, specific references to Scripture to support your views. Jesus is horribly, horribly ashamed of what you are using His name to do, sir – instill hatred and fear where he would preach love and acceptance and REAL dialogue.

    If you spent so much time writing this, then YOU HAVE THE TIME TO ANSWER MY QUESTION, citing Scripture: How do you reconcile Christ’s teachings with 1) a Christian being both pro-life and pro-death penalty and 2) our history of violent interventions in other nations (re: Latin America)? Go ahead, I’m listening. No really, I’m waiting for an answer.

  • MItch Hatcher

    This article is so dumb. Of course you can be a liberal and a christian. I know many christian liberals. This article is just pure right wing nonsense.
    Christian’s don’t really know Jesus. They just know dogma and conservative talking points. Jesus was a liberal in his day.
    Good grief. Republicans seemingly worship guns, wealth, and a “Jesus” they don’t even know or agree with. Jesus would not stand for what the conservative party stands for ( hatred of the poor, hatred of minorities,etc).

  • C

    The fundamental problem with this article is that WE don’t get to decide who is worthy and who is not. My worthiness is between god and me, and yours is between god and you. I might … hesitate to call you a Christian after reading the dripping hate and superiority and hubris in this article … But that luxury is not mine. Prayer, self-examination, sacrifice … and even after that, we are all flawed and must throw ourselves at his feet in reliance on his tender mercies.

  • Loki

    Well, you certainly make the case that one can be a paranoid, hateful douchebag and still call oneself a Christian.

  • Tracy

    Being a Christian means believing that Jesus christ is the son of God , not to believe in the Bible. Parts of the Bible was not even written when Jesus was around. The Bible was put together by People! Keeping some stories in and leaving some out. What is important is for Christians to listen to the” teachings ” of Jesus and HIS message. That is how we become Christians, believing !!!!!

  • http://www.nealalanspurlock.com/ Neal Alan Spurlock

    Ah, the victim card again. “Oh noes, we’re not getting everything our own way! WAAAAHHHH!”

    Not being able to exclude and persecute others based on their beliefs and actions does not equal being persecuted yourself. I know, it’s hard to let go of, or even recognize, ingrained and systematic privilege, but you’ve had it and for the most part, still enjoy it. All that is happening is that other religions and beliefs are actually getting their rights, and you are being forced to accept DIFFERENCE and that not everyone shares YOUR beliefs.

    No one is persecuting Christianity…they are responding to the centuries of Christian persecution of difference and assumption of exceptionalist privilege. Taking away that privilege isn’t persecution any more than getting rid of Jim Crow laws was persecuting white people. It’s leveling the playing field. You’re not special, you don’t deserve any special place for your religion over those of others, and finally laws are starting to reflect that basic equality that our nation was ostensibly founded upon.

    And if you want your religion to survive at all, you’d better start embracing the more “liberal” (and historically accurate) perspective, because so long as your entire reason to exist is to persecute difference, the entire set of values ingrained into Western Civilization will be at odds with you. You’re not going to get the “good old days”, where everyone you met was automatically going to be a reflection of your own race, culture, religion, and values; instead you are just going to marginalize yourselves–and your religion–more and more.

    If you don’t want Jesus to go the way of Zeus, you need to reconsider your strategy of doubling down every time you get confronted on your privilege and the horrible results of that privilege. Your history is filled with bigotry and blood…hardly living up to the tenets of the “Prince of Peace”. Stop trying to screw with everyone else and attend to straightening your own house before looking in on the houses of others.

    If you don’t address these issues yourself, don’t be surprised when the rest of the world classifies your precious religion as being equal to the KKK and neo-Nazi movements, and if you use violence, try you as terrorists and hate-groups. Right now, every time an abortion clinic gets bombed or doctor is murdered, your privilege means it gets labeled as an “extremists” or “mental illness”…but soon enough people are going to call it what it is: terrorism.

    • Eric Susee

      Hear, Hear!!!

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_W5PYVKQUEKIWMA7HZNTBKV7HN4 Mayme

      Hear, hear, hear!!!!

  • http://www.nightphoenix.com Amaranth

    Wow. I had no idea it was possible to construct an entire post out of nothing but dog-whistles and tribal markers and still have it resemble something like actual content. Almost.

  • Kurtis

    You’re really lost. I love Jesus, which is probably why I’m liberal. I believe in loving people as Jesus loved us with all of our flaws, and helping those that cannot help themselves. It’s sad that you are leading people astray. You’re too caught up in politics to truly show others grace and love that Jesus gave us, and that is incredibly sad.

  • Harshman

    Well written, cleverly worded but absolutely, totally wrong. I am a Christian. I am a liberal. Does that mean I agree with everything a liberal believes? No. But I agree more than I disagree. I have trouble understanding how a Christian can vote for a man who is part of what has always been considered a cult—Mormonism. Now the evangelical rights are lining up to kiss his shoes. Give me a break!

  • Michael P. Smith

    Well, do you wear multi-threaded shirts?
    Do you support tattoos?
    If either gets a yes, along with other incredulous claims in the bible along such lines, then you mustn’t be Christian either.

    Even the core beliefs of helping the poor and needy are blatantly ignored by most radicalized Republicans. (Reasonable Republicans can make valid points, however)

    My last note here: If anyone is attacking Christianity, it is you. You are wrongfully accusing some people who are just a tad different from you of being heinous. That, in itself, I find to be more heinous by extreme amounts.

    Have a good day, sir. As a liberal Christian (of age 17, no less), I certainly shall.
    (Nice use of Harvey Two-Face. I suppose it is a mirrored view of thyself)

  • Eric Susee

    For the Christian to lean politically Right would mean for them to blow off large chunks of the teachings of Christ. Proverbs 14:31 states: “He who oppresses the poor reproaches his Maker, But he who honors HIM has mercy on the needy.” & Jesus himself said, “Then the king will say to those at his right hand, “Come, you that are
    blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the
    foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you
    welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you
    took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.” Matt. 25:34-36 How does that level with the policies toward the poor on the GOP agenda? Or the Paul Ryan Plan? Or anti-immigration zealots who hate the ‘strangers’ form elsewhere?

    As far as the rich folks that people on the Right seem to idolize? Well, Jesus had more than a little to say about that! A rich boy comes to him and wants to be a follower? Well, Jesus asked a bit too much for Mr. Mammon, ” “Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.” Matt. 19:21-22 He also said this, “Depart from me, you who are cursed, into
    the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry
    and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing
    to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed
    clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did
    not look after me.’ They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you
    hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison,
    and did not help you?’ He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever
    you did not do for one of the least among you, you did not do for me.’”
    Matthew 25:41-45

    But, somehow that teaching of Christ has been…..changed? What? Is it now the teaching of the church to worship Mammon and hold the rich in our society up on pedestals as idols? As the people that you attain to be? What happened to the Christian that strove to be Christ-like. To live as the Lord lived? To believe as the Lord believed? To live as the Lord taught? That doesn’t apply anymore, I guess. Mammon is the new God of the right. You blare your ‘Christianity’ loud and proud, yet nothing you say is anything that Jesus would want to hear. You hate anybody different from you. There’s no love. Just hateful words, accusations, lies.

    The funny thing about y’all is this; You “Christians” would vote for a guy that you know is a member in high standing with a church that proclaims itself to be ‘Christian’ but that you know is nothing more than a money-grubbing cult that’s delivering people to Satan on a platter. You demand birth-certificates, college transcripts, and whatever other kind of documents from Obama, but you’ll vote for a guy that won’t show you his tax-returns (that you KNOW will show that he’s the biggest tax-cheat to ever run for the highest office in the land).. You accuse Obama of being secretly Muslim, but are alright with Romney being openly Mormon. Oh well…….Einstein said, ““Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.”OBAMA 2012, CLINTON 2016 & 2020!!!

  • tractor1

    well, in the article you didn’t actually mention any scripture. the truth is that the right wing agenda has no foundation whatsoever in the actual teachings of christ. i write this as someone who’s taught bible study for three decades. i’d like to be non-partisan, but i only see the teachings of christ represented in the democratic party in 2012. which is ironic, as the democratic party is largely secular. but i see the religious right as literally having nothing to do with the actual teachings of christ, unfortunately.

    • Eric Susee

      Coming from a Bible Study teacher, that’s a breath of fresh air and honesty that you don’t see from the Right about the subject. They’d rather believe that the rich inherit the Kingdom of God.

  • Paratisi

    Can’t you just feel the LibLove, all over this thread? The tolerance is moving, I’m Verklempt!

    God Bless America!

    • Eric Susee

      Sticking with that, “I’m rubber, you’re glue.” mentality, eh?

      • Paratisi

        Lol, What makes you think I’m talking about you, little fella?

  • Rowan

    The absolute best thing about this “article” is seeing how many REAL Christians were disgusted by it, and who understand Christ’s commands regarding caring for our fellow man. So much LOVE for you guys!! <3

  • Susan van Inwegen

    The author must not be familiar with the WORDS OF CHRIST. In the Bible he says one 120 times to help the sick and needy. Sir i believe that you have it backwards more difficult to be a republican and a Crhistian. Actually more difficult “than a camel going through the eye of a needle.” Also to the author, the numbers of people in Christian left group is huge. Read the WORDS OF CHRIST!!!

  • MissouriMan

    Praying for you, Doug. Know that there is a way out of the hell you’re living in.

  • MomInKS

    I can’t see how a true Christian can be anything BUT a Liberal. If you follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, actually read the red letter portions of your bible, His message naturally fits in with the left leaning policies of our country. You really have to work to twist things around to make them fit into modern republican ideology.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1314740521 Patrick Munsch

      as i have said below…yes we are suppose to be Christ like, no Jesus wasn’t a progressive liberal that wants to steel a persons hard earned money and give it to someone else, or kill an unborn child because its a “disease” not a child, or depend on the federal government to fix every thing., He’s a PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, INDIVIDUALS HELPING OTHERS WITHIN THEIR OWN ABILITY TO DO SO, STANDING UP FOR BIBLICAL TRUTH NO MATTER HOW UNPOPULAR IT IS, AND TRUSTING IN GOD THE FATHER FOR EVERYTHING INDIVIDUAL. And that is as far from progressive liberalism as you can get.
      there is a difference in being an individual religous liberal, as most christians are, and a progressive political liberal. The individual does as is commanded by God to do, where as the progressive uses the GOVERNMENT TO FORCE PEOPLE to do the things that THEY SEEM RIGHT. like using tax payer money to pay for some woman to kill her unborn child….Did Jesus teach us to do that? use someone else’s hard earned money to kill an unborn child? hmm? i didn’t think so.

      • Christina Johnson

        Matthew 19:16-30

        You’re reducing things like affordable healthcare to something as divisive as abortion. However, the scriptures really say nothing about abortion. I mean, there are things that people can allude to abortion with, but there is nothing in the Bible specifically about abortion. Furthermore, American society has proven that “individuals helping others” doesn’t work. Honestly, I’d much rather spend my tax dollars making sure that people have a roof over their head, safe and clean food and water, and an education that empowers them to live a wonderful, meaningful life. As it stands, most of our tax dollars under GW Bush went to wars that really didn’t need to happen (and before you start talking about how I don’t support the troops, I was a soldier). So, you claim to be prolife, but you don’t speak out against wars, the death penalty, or a system that is set up for people to fail (unless they are born into the right family), and instead place all the blame on women who have to make a heart-wrenching decision that, a lot of the times, is about whether or not the woman in question wants to risk their existence for a pregnancy that could very well kill her. There are SOOO many verses in the Bible that call the nations of the time to stick up for the oppressed, and the orphans, and the widows, and people who just need some damn love in their life. The prophet Isaiah is a good place to start. In fact, Isaiah 1 explains that the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah had to do with inhospitality and injustice, rather than anything relating to sexual orientation as it is defined today.

        In short, Biblically, you are wrong. Go read the Prophet Isaiah to learn why.

      • MomInKS

        No, you are simply wrong, and there is no need to shout. It is annoying.

        Jesus clearly stated that the primary commandment was to Love God, and then Love One Another. Everything else comes second. He demonstrated over and over that if the specific rules laid out in Hebrew law and custom interfered with our ability to do those first two things, then the law was wrong. People above rules, always.

        And Jesus didn’t hold a job, he traveled from place to place depending on the hospitality of others, and lived a life where there was a social safety net provided by the customs of the culture. Because the way our culture handles things like this is to legislate it, it is reasonable to legislate helping the poor and caring for the sick, and being good stewards of our resources and environment.

        There is scriptural support for abortion. There is even a description of a ceremony where a woman takes an abortificant to rid herself of a baby with questionable parentage. Abortion (and even infanticide, which is no longer culturally acceptable because our technology can discover severe birth defects before birth, something they were unable to do then) was most certainly practiced in Jesus’ time and he didn’t speak one word against it. He did, however, speak repeatedly about taking care of people.

        And abortion is simply far more complicated than “kill her unborn child”. The kind of restrictions people are seeking to keep women from having abortions when there is no actual baby (blighted ovum), or a “missed miscarriage”, when the fetus is dead and the body messes up and won’t abort it spontaneously. That has happened to me several times, for very wanted pregnancies, and my church sponsored insurance wouldn’t cover it because it was “abortion”, adding the weight of emergency surgery paid out of pocket to an already devastating situation. Abortion is a reasonable part of health care for women and it is so rare it is used as “birth control” it is laughable.

        Also, many women, including myself, have spent years on birth control and our insurance has been unwilling to pay for it. (FTR, I was on BCP from 12 years old, and a complete virgin, until I married and was immediately TTC) There are many medical conditions that use BC to preserve fertility, including the leading causes of infertility, Endometriosis and PCOS. Even “birth control” is often not used for birth control but for fertility preservation. So yes, birth control is part of caring for the sick.

        Nobody is “stealing a person’s hard earned money”. We were instructed, by Jesus himself, to pay taxes. In fact, I suspect that the tax loopholes that so many conservatives rely on to feed their greed would not meet with Jesus’ approval. It is pretty hard to keep your left hand from knowing what your right hand is doing if you are keeping receipts and categorizing the deductions. If you want to really give the way Jesus instructed, you wouldn’t worry about getting the money back on your taxes.

        About the whole gay thing…here, this guy said it better, so if you really want to understand, listen to him: http://youtu.be/ezQjNJUSraY

        Have a lovely evening. I need to get some work done so I won’t be available to respond for a while.

        • Frothingslosh

          Very well said.

  • 9thID

    You’re right Doug – no Christian who actually believes in Scripture can support the Liberal platform pillars of abortion/genocide, homosexuality/same-sex unions, pornography, sloth, secular humanism, racism/anti-Semitism, etc. They are Romans 1:18-32 in HighDef depravity…

    • Christina Johnson

      The Bible says nothing about abortion, and gives to different ideas on when human life begins. Sometimes, abortions are medically necessary. That doesn’t mean we have to like it, but why demonize a woman for choosing her own life rather than risking it for a baby that will possibly kill her if she gives birth to him or her? Furthermore, what genocide have all people with a left-leaning political ideology committed?

      Yeah, pron’s bad, I get that. So’s sloth, and secular humanism isn’t too keen on that whole being kind thing. Humanism itself, though, has to do with the full potential of humankind. It is, to me, summed up by the psychologist Abraham Maslow in the idea of self-actualization. He described self-actualized people as people who do great things with their life, and basically just have all their ducks in a row. Maslow was a psychologist who, rather than focusing on mental illness, focused on all the positive things that a person can do in their lives. How is that bad?

      I have a soft spot for GLBT people, though. Maybe that’s because I’m an icky tranny, which makes me biased as all fuck… but at least I’ve done my research on the topic rather than taken some of my former pastors’ words at face value. Why GLBT people? Do you actually believe we all fit the laundry list that Paul made in that passage in Romans? How could God give me up to my “shameful desires” when I spent the first eight years of my Christian life praying that my struggles with gender identity and sexual orientation would just go away. I would pray for hours, until I finally realized the truth: God loves me just the way She made me. I’ve come to the conclusion that my need to transition was given to me by God to reach out to people marginalized by the religious authorities. As such, I have an easier time talking to atheists about how great God is than I do my fellow Christians a lot of the time!

      I guess my point is that you are placing people into far over-simplified boxes, where as God takes our misguided lines in the sand and seems to take great pleasure in scratching them out and teaching us to love each other. You should try it! ^.^

  • Legion

    RIGHT ON! He hit the nail on the head- scream like the losers you are libtards.The disgust against Christians on campus is outrageous. Not one in the snarky comments disputes this. Also, the war against Christmas with the taking down of Creches from the public square and the white lights instead of red and green. Every point the author makes is valid. Conservatives give more than liberals and has been proved time and time again. They expect the state to take care of you so they keep it all- odumbo lets his half brother live in a cardboard box in Kenya- and his Aunt and Uncle live in public housing in Massachusetts.Bill Clinton famously donated his used underware and wrote it off his tax returns. Biden, Kerry, Pelosi & Reid- millionares- and cheap to the max. Conservatives care- libs lie, vote for them and we all will die.

  • liberalatwar

    What a bunch of lies with no citations to back up any of this idiotic thinking. Yet other idiots will believe it without asking for any sort of proof.

  • pcb

    so this ‘enlightened’ individual would suggest that such notables as jimmy carter are not christian?
    just another rant as far as i can tell… no convert here:)

  • moveonreid

    Someone suggested there wasn’t any scripture to back up conservative beliefs. Got your scripture right here, in an article I wrote in response to a prominent Christian leftist: http://www.christianconservativeresistance.blogspot.com/2010/12/willow-creek-substitutes-leftism-for.html.

    • moveonreid

      Liberals can’t argue using reason, so they resort to name-calling, e.g., “ignorant, fear peddling, racist, homophobic…”

      • John

        Jeanette. Have you ever actually read the bible? Be honest. Cover to cover? Have you actually truthfully read it?

  • Mike

    Correction: You cannot be a liberal and an ignorant, fear peddling, racist, homophobic Evangelist..

    You see, liberals are confined less. They CAN be both. Throwing out huge chunks of the bible was perfected by conservatives. Its not that you practice religion. Its that you try to enforce the parts of the bible that are just patently untrue. I’m sorry you cannot reconcile your faith with science and facts. The rest of us have that part of the brain.

    • Frothingslosh

      Leviticus has especially been left in tatters. Funny how the people claiming that you can’t pick and choose which laws to follow do precisely that when it comes to that book.

  • http://twitter.com/TravisAubreyFL Travis

    Man this is the largest bunch of Biblical illiterate Christians ever! Like really freakin’ STUPID! I don’t know whether to laugh or cry! =P~ What church do you go to? What is your denomination? What in the article is mistaken about liberal bigotry and censorship of Christianity? Uuuugh…

  • Melissa

    Sorry to break it to ya, but Jesus Christ was liberal long before any of us were.

  • dcwc16

    Great article, points out the obvious. Liberals also have a more forgiving attitude toward Muslim subjugation of women and gays than they do for Christian beliefs and the word of the Bible. The absurdity of liberalism makes me think it is a mental illness.

  • http://www.facebook.com/graytigeress Jennifer V Gray

    This is wrong.

  • Chris

    Wait, wait…I think I get the joke. You are like Stephen Colbert right? A pretend con who uses purposeful fallacies to prove the opposite point? Please say so. If not, then I’m sad for your brain. It’s clearly taken way too many shocks from the rifle kicks.

    However, the comments to this perhaps unintentional humor are very encouraging to my feeling of the human race, especially in America where I fear that only the mentally deficient feel proud to rant such base foolishness. The only real Christianity is a progressive stance if you really read the Bible. This from a former con who fell into the trap of trusting Baptist ministers over his own better judgment and studies of Jesus’ teachings. Love all people as your main missive in life. Leave the judging to God. Let he who is sinless cast the first stone. So yeah that’s nobody.

  • TXinSC

    I am astonished at some of the responses to this article. It is more than obvious most of you have NO knowledge of what the Bible says or who and what Christ’s first coming was all about or most importantly, who GOD is. Jesus is not for the death penalty? Who do you think instituted the death penalty? It was Almighty God, Gen 9:5-6. God is against war? Read the book of Joshua and 1Samuel 15, if you really want to see destruction read Revelation (what is to come). Jesus was a progressive? No, but He was a radical. He had no political ambitions at His first advent. He will on the next one, and I can promise you most of you will not like the result. You think Christ/God is for liberal/progressive ideas? You want the Government to replace God, and you really think He is for this? We are suppose to depend on God for ALL things, while the Progressive movement wants the government to be god. Read the Book of Matthew, and pay attention to the words of Christ. He is talking to His followers, it is believers who are to take care of the poor, not the government. There is so much to rebut here there is simply not time nor room. IF, and for most of you it is a big IF, get a good study bible, ESV translation, and pray for enlightenment if you really want to know the truth. For most of you, you won’t be able to accept the truth because it will be contrary to what you want to believe.
    May God have mercy on this lost and perverted generation!

    • moveonreid

      Right on sister! You are like a breath of fresh air in here. I’m guessing you will enjoy this article as well: http://www.christianconservativeresistance.blogspot.com/2010/12/willow-creek-substitutes-leftism-for.html.

    • Darryl

      Totally agree with you Lisa. I think most people reading this piece are up in arms and defensive before they even realize that a party wasn’t mentioned until the very last paragraph. He didn’t even mention saying he supported the Republican party in this article. When he did mention the Democratic party he is right in the direction the party has gone the past 40-50 years regarding Christian rights in our country. The other party is no better either or they would actually stand for what is right and wrong vs lining their pockets. The Democrat is no friend to the Christian anymore, they are about being politically correct. A Muslim influence is already making pretty good head way in our country today. There are more people coming to Jesus in Iran and China than in our country these days. There is also a penalty in those countries for that decision. They are usually imprisoned or die. We take it for granted, supposedly get saved and continue in the same lifestyle we did before thinking we now have a get out of jail free card or something. And just because the 4 gospels don’t necessarily mention Jesus referring specifically to abortion doesn’t mean He supported it. In Isaiah 9:10, God used the Assyrians to destroy the Israelites because of sacrificing newborns to false gods among other sins and atrocities. Abortion isn’t any different. Israel as a nation turned their back on God time and time again. They were not a self governed nation after 722 BC again until 1948 and that was another prophecy being fulfilled and some believe that started the end time clock ticking preparing for Jesus return. Our country is not much different today. There is more sexual immorality, adultery, homosexuality, abortion, greed, slothfulness, drug abuse, alcoholism, sense of entitlement among the masses, self serving attitudes, more pornography, in our country than any other country on this earth. We are also the free-est country as far as religious freedoms are concerned. There are as many churches as there are car lots, one on every corner and most are empty on Sunday mornings. There are more Bibles in homes in our country than anywhere else on the earth but most of them are paraphrased to keep the light from exposing the darkness in our lives, and drawing dust from lack of use. Christians in other countries get their hands on a few pages of the Bible and treasure that. We take it for granted and usually trample all over God’s word, all the time calling ourselves His. The liberal masses, I didn’t say Democrat either, twist God’s word to support and justify their lifestyle and thinking. You either believe it word for word or you believe none of it. Same sex relationships are spoken against time and time again in God’s word as being an atrocity. Leviticus talks about that, 1 Corinthians 6-9-10 is very specific about it as well as other sins and who will and will not inherit the kingdom of Heaven. Read the end of the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 7 where Jesus tells us that not eveyone who calls on Him will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Revelations 3:15-16 tells us what God will do with the so called “lukewarm” Christians. Jesus said that He and the Father were one and that He who has seen Him has seen the Father also. He tells us in Matthew 22:34-40 that the two greatest and most important commandments are to love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This being the greatest and most important commandment. The second is to love your neighbor as yourself. If we lived by these two commandments there wouldn’t be all the moral corruption we have in our country today. There wouldn’t be the division we have today. We would all be doing our best to walk with God and live according to the way He commanded His children to live in the Bible. You can’t get to know God very well if you aren’t spending very much time with Him each day in prayer and in His Word, just as you can’t get to know your friends very well when you don’t see them or talk to them very often. We live in the greatest country that has ever been on the face of this earth and our grandparents, great grandparents, forefathers, went to great lengths to make it so. There is a lost sense of patriotism in this country today. You can’t separate politics and religion because when you do the politicians will tell you when you can worship, who you can worship, and where you can worship. If you don’t agree, just do some digging into what Christians in Communist, Islam, and Dictatorial countries have endured throughout history. Jesus Christ and real Christian faith scares people with a political agenda, to death. The direction our country is heading is the wrong direction, morally, economically, socially, politically. The Russians made the comment in the late ’50′s that they would take us over without firing a shot. Read a book called “The Naked Communist” and it will tell you of 45 goals the Communist party has for the demise of our country and most of them have come about as of today. The Muslims in the Middle East have made that same comment about us not so long ago. Satan’s goal is to destroy the things of God. He knows he loses in the end and wants to wreck as much havoc here as he can before he is doomed. He is doing a pretty good job right now too.

  • mk

    Doug is, for lack of a better word, an idiot.

  • Frothingslosh

    Jesus instructed us to help the poor and less fortunate. He told us to love one another as he loved us, and warned us to judge not, lest we be judged. He gave us the parable of the Good Samaritan (who were a hated people at that time), and warned that it was easier to fit through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to reach heaven. He even warned us that the love of money is the root of all evil.

    So where, in all of this, is the fear, hatred, intolerance, and greed that Mr. Giles claims Jesus REALLY taught?

  • Justinian

    As it was in the time of the early Church, so it is now. Christians must make their stand with the risen Lord and His Church, and reject the liberalism of the present corrupted culture, and the Democratic Party that oversees that corruption.

  • Tubbs

    I saw a bunch of my more liberal minded friends posting this….. and I am having some serious trouble. The article is a mess – you make assertions, but they aren’t backed up with citations from scripture or from really any actual sources. I hope you consider this to be constructive criticism. I find the lack of formal arguments are largely responsible for the sour reputation that christian conservatives have picked up over the years.

    • John Pirtle

      Yes I agree with this.

  • Obi Wan

    …only a Sith deals in absolutes.

  • John Pirtle

    Doug Giles. I am curious whether you have actually ever read the Bible? Cover to cover. Which translation? Have you ever studied Theology or the history of the Church? Do you know anything about the history of the Bible? I am really curious?

  • Eric Claptron

    This is quite an illuminating opinion piece. Fortunately it doesn’t attempt to back up any of these claims with facts, scripture, statistics, research, or any other relavant information other than hyperbolic metaphors. I prefer this type of journalism because it doesn’t challenge my previously held beliefs or tax my incredibly small intellect in any way. Way to go Doug! More just like this please!

  • John Pirtle

    Under Jewish Law protecting the mother is more important than protecting the Embryo. Getting the government into the enforcement of one religious doctrine over another is …..prohibited by the first amendment.

  • Syd’sDad

    Offensive…one can be a Christian and a liberal, and not necessarily have to fit into the close-minded, limted conception that this author nhas of liberalism…this article, and this notion, are not worth any more of my time than that…the Lord’s peace be with you Mr. Giles…and all of you…

  • Sherrie

    Idiot! Jesus WAS a liberal.

  • NYC1001

    Doug, I’d suggest you go over all of the scriptures in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John where Jesus deals with people involved in the matters of money and finances. Then read the philosophies of Karl Marx regarding the same.
    Similar? Yeah, that’s what I thought, as well.
    Now ask yourself, who was born first? Who lived earlier?
    Again… that’s the answer I came up with too.

  • Michael

    Mr. Giles, you can change “left” to “right” and say the same thing. This is one of the dumbest, anti-biblical things I’ve read in a long time. Your willful ignorance is baffling.

    Don’t send me your emails. Let your sheep keep quiet. Don’t spew your bile at me. I’m only providing my email address because it is required to post a comment.

  • 1Bobby8

    You cannot be a Christian and support the killing of the unborn,you cannot be a Christian and support “gay marraige” which is an oxymoron…No two ways about it,either you’re a Christian or a Democrat,take your pick,you can’t be both.

    • $12391286

      Really? Because the bible has an abortion ritual in it, Numbers 5:11-21. Also
      Exodus 21:22-25 lists the “killing of the unborn” not as murder, but rather just requires the paying of a fine (doing injury to the woman is considered a far more grievous matter).

  • 1disciple

    You’re absolutely right Doug Giles and some of the other commenters before me are fulfilling end times bible prophecy to their own detriment thru the rising up of the spirit of the Antichrist and are blinded in their backwards brains. Praise God you lucky guy you are experiencing persecution and mocking. Remember this as Jesus said in the scriptures, they are really mocking Jesus, not you. It means you are one of His!

  • Reese

    Wow! Judge not.

  • http://www.monster-island.net/ kushibo

    For the love of money is the root of all kinds of of evil (1 Timothy 6:10). That means you can be Christian or capitalist, but not both.

    Jesus was throwing money changers out of the temple, not the poor or those helping the poor.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_W5PYVKQUEKIWMA7HZNTBKV7HN4 Mayme

      You certainly can be a Christian and a capitalist, maybe, not one like Ann Ryan but there are many, many good upstanding honest capitalist. Unfortunately some capitalist are not honest and upstanding. Every group, conservatives, liberals, communist, socialist, Christians, Catholics, Teachers, Shoe Salesmen etc have the good and bad. Our big problem is agreeing on what is good and what is bad.

  • luzmark1

    For liberals love is , if you love me, you will let me do what I want. It doesn’t matter if it is fornication, homosexuality , fetus killing, illegal entry, universal religion (they’re all the same you know,NOT), treat the industrius and the thinking about it, the same. The truth is love the Holy, Just God first , and then you will know how to love your neighbor properly.

  • Robin

    What a joke! These right-wing, religious nut sacks are really out there! Unfortunately this effing moron bred and passed on his ignorance to his daughters who are now out there spewing their ignorance. People with this unbelievably low amount of intelligence and common sense should be spayed or neutered. JESUS SAVE US FROM YOUR FOLLOWERS!! THEY ARE TOTAL IDIOTS!!

  • VickiJ

    Don’t have to read far to realize people want to use scripture when it’s convenient (dump the debts they owe) and ignore it when it isn’t (gay marriage, abortion).

    Doug is right…you can’t be both. As the Word says….chose who you will serve. Chose wisely, because the consequences are forever.

  • one77

    Allowing religion to get involved with govt. is kind of forcing religion on everyone. The point of separation of church of state and freedom of religion is so.. people can have freedom of religion.
    How many Christians would like to be forced to follow some rules of another religion? Or be forced to follow another religion completely? Probably not many. Christ said to do to others what you want them to do you. If you want others to let you choose to practice the religion you would like to, you should probably allow others to practice the religion they want by not imposing one religion or one version of one religion on others through the government (or any other way).
    There are a huge amount of different branches or interpretations of Christianity. Would you like Seventh Day Adventists to dominate the government and make eating meat illegal? (the country probably would be better off if that was the case but that’s beside the point) Would you like Jehovah’s Witnesses to make blood transfusions illegal for everyone or allow the Jehovah’s Witnesses to get rid of the military entirely? Would you like Christian Scientists to make going to traditional western doctors illegal? Allowing one branch of one religion to impose their beliefs or interpretations on everyone else would probably not be a good thing at this point.
    The reason for the separation of religion and state is so that everyone can practice the religion they want. If one religion or branch of one religion takes over the government and imposes their beliefs on everyone else, that’s probably bad!
    Jesus said:
    Luke 6:31
    12 Therefore, iwhatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for jthis is the Law and the Prophets.

    If you want people to allow you to practice your religion as you see fit, you should probably not impose your interpretation of religion on anyone else. It seems that would go against the above words of Jesus.
    If imposing one’s religious ideas on others is against what Christ taught then that might not be good. Read the next scripture.

    2 John 1:9-11New International Version (NIV)

    9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. 11 Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work.

    If all people are sinners that means they are all imperfect. To have some imperfect, incorrect people force their imperfect interpretations of the Bible on everyone else, that would probably be bad. That would keep people from actually reaching the truth.

  • Hannah Grace

    Haha “be afraid! Here are no facts but lots of worrying but vague and nonsensical threats!”

  • Katana_X

    If you think the Bible says that you shouldn’t take care of the sick (medicaid, medicare, ACA), love your neighbor as you love yourself (marriage equality), and give to the poor (tax relief, food stamps, child care), then you’re not reading the right book.

    • LibertysSon

      These commands they refer to, to help the sick ,the widows and the poor, are directed at the individual. These gifts are to be given by a person individually through Christ’s Agape Love. This is not a command to form a government that forcibly takes money from one and gives it to another. This is a personal command.

  • Greg

    Yeah… The author is kinda stupid…

  • Gary Nickerson

    Go back and read Jesus’s words. In terms of Church/State, I remember him saying “Give unto . . .” No, never mind, you wouldn’t get the implication anyway.

  • felix1999

    Thank you Doug Giles!

    Ignore James who posted below me. He is more evidence of why LIBERALS are NOT CHRISTIANS. “James” is MEAN spirited, ignorant of Biblical teachings and operates on EMOTIONS rather than God’s Word and its implications. I look forward to heaven and NOT EVER having to be around humanists like “James”. What a wonderful day that will be for ETERNITY.

  • BarryOduma

    I have often thought – that being a liberal and a Christian is an oxymoron…..

  • Kim Bartenslager

    Well, I guess that’s why I am not a Christian. It’s so sad to learn that Christians are such a terribly victimized minority in this country. Oh wait, most of the people in America are Christians. So how can they be so powerless?

    • Jo

      Kim, please know we are not all this hateful.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_W5PYVKQUEKIWMA7HZNTBKV7HN4 Mayme

        Thank you

  • Euna

    James, what part of Giles message do you disagree with? He is telling it like it is and I agree with him.

  • Kim Bartenslager

    And what in the world does Batman’s arch-enemy, Two Face have to do with it?

  • dHb

    “Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.”

    James Madison
    Founding Father and 4th President of The United States

  • dHb

    “If by religion we are to understand sectarian dogmas, in which no two of them agree, then your exclamation on that hypothesis is just, “that this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.”
    Thomas Jefferson in letter to John Adams

  • US Citizen

    As for me an my house, we will serve the Lord. Period. As it clearly shows in the Bible, in the end times, that which is good is called evil and that which is evil is called good. We will stand with Christ, if we stand alone, so be it. In the end, we know where we will be going. We too have read the Bible. Read the end of the Book. We win. <:)

    • dHb

      “It is between fifty and sixty years since I read the Book of Revelation, and I then considered it merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherencies of our own nightly dreams … I cannot so far respect them as to consider them as an allegorical narrative of events, past or subsequent. There is not enough coherence in them to countenance any suite of rational ideas…. What has no meaning admits no explanation.”

      Thomas Jefferson

  • Dave

    This is so off base and hateful. Love thy neighbor as thyself. I don’t see any love here. This country is founded on freedom of religion; it is not a theocracy. If we follow the ideals espoused here, we will be a Christian Iran.

  • Mark

    The truth hurts! Wise words Mr Giles!

  • SilverHairedSaint

    Ah the irony.
    I read the trolls and want to slap them senseless, but then I realize they are already senseless.
    I read the trolls and look forward to their eventual meeting with their maker, and then am saddened and ashamed that I could feel any joy or pleasure in the thought of what a Christ-less eternity will mean to them.
    I read the trolls and wonder why, if they don’t like what we are discussing here, do they bother themselves with reading this blog. Life’s too short. If you are so adamantly opposed to Christ and so sold on the secular humanistic system you follow, I suggest that you live it to the fullest, because if you stay on your current course, the 60 or 70 years you get here will be the only “enjoyment” you will ever have; because, regardless of your beliefs, death comes to us all and then the judgment.

    • dHb

      What an excellent demonstration of self righteousness. No wonder you have appointed yourself a “saint”.

  • Rick

    This is a great article. Jesus said, “You are with me or against me.” Liberals rejects God’s Word. That is simply the way it is! Two dyametrically oposed views cannot contain the same element of truth.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ewright06 Eric Wright

    My brain hurts now. My favorite part is where he touts this great american experiment in point 1 and then bashes on freedom of expression in point 4. You might say that freedom in all its forms is an integral part of the american experiment you’re so thrilled with. I welcome the elephant dung, truly. That’s not lip service. It’s a powerful and beautiful message for the world that we can tolerate such things. Or most of the rest of us unpatriotic liberals can, anyways.

  • ZagoZana

    So JESUS’ teachings about the poor will now be transformed to promote greed that ROBME represents? He is fooling with your heads. He pay almost no taxes. Money that will buoys up our infrastructure, that he uses to make his money.
    A very telling story about his heartlessness is of his dog’s 12 hours is torture on the top of his truck. Any normal person would put luggage on the roof instead of a dog, his dog.
    He represents the opposite of Jesus teachings?
    The “F” word network is TOTALLY one sided. Listen to Randi Rhodes!
    She was a truck driver, a soldier and is now the wisest radio person on the air.
    http://www.Randi Rhodes.com Listen to The Randi Rhodes Show online

    The Mic 92.1

  • http://www.bibleversusconstitution.org/ Ted R. Weiland

    Anything left of
    Yahweh’s morality (as codified in His commandments, statutes, and judgments) is
    left, liberal, and ungodly. When today’s politicians (Democrats, Republicans,
    Libertarians, Constitutionalists, etc.), churches, preachers, and most people claiming
    to be Christians are measured against this standard (the only standard by which
    all things must be judged), they are found to be merely liberal or conservative
    leftists. It is consequently imperative that Christians do everything in our
    power to uphold this standard before the secular world and modern churchianity.

  • Hombre

    Clear thinking Mr Giles….and that which is definitely inspired, regardless of your detractors who have apparently never read the Bible, let alone studied it. You’re a breath of fresh air in a crooked generation.

    • bearzee

      A Baylor University
      Study found that people who actually read the Bible became more liberal. http://www.christianitytoday.c….
      For those of you who actually read a Bible, here is a collection of passages:
      Luke 3:11, Acts 2:44-45: 2

      Samuel 12:1-5, Matthew 19:24, Matthew 5:1-11, Acts 4:32-35, Luke 7, Mark

      10:17-23, Romans 13:6-7, 1 John 3:17, Leviticus

      25:35, Isaiah

      10: 1-2, Amos 8:4-8, James 5:1-5, James 3:14-18, James 2:1-9, James

      1:9-11, Proverbs

      22:16, 22-23, Isaiah 3 13-15. Ezek. 16:49ff 2 Corinthians 8:13-15, Galatians
      5:13-15, Genesis 41:33-48, 1 Corinthians 10:24.

      • Hombre

        Christianity ‘today’ bears little to no resemblance to the Christianity of the early church…those examples are BTW, pulled out of context to push an agenda, versus reading them for inspiration, which is the consumate mistake of the self absorbed….for example the typical Socialist is going to quote Prov 22:16 to endorse Socialism and paint a sour face on Romney, without paying heed to the FACT that there are multitudes of rich Democrats…How about if I just leave you with a passage from the OT: Deuteronomy 28: 1- 14, which declares that if one is obedient to the Lord that HE WILL ENRICH your life in every way, including material wealth…being wealthy is NO CRIME…but stealing it is.

  • conservativeandproud

    It is about time someone said this. It is akin to what one of the LDS leaders said years ago, Ezra Taft Benson, who was President of the LDS Church and Secretary of Agriculture under President Eisenhower. He said “You cannot be a good Mormon and a liberal Democrat.” How true it is. And, that buffoon, Harry Reid, also a Mormon, came to Utah and publicly said that Ezra Taft Benson, when he was President of the LDS Church, led the members of the Church astray with his radical right-wing politics. We have gotten it for years and it is time all Christians, of every stripe, whether everyone accepts each denomination as Christian or not, stand together or we are going to lose this fight for our nation, as we have taken huge strides toward under this President and the Democrats.

  • http://twitter.com/AuntieCoosa C E Donaldson

    Very Founding Fathers of you … there are plenty of good quotes to back you up by them, and I think that in order to document what you have written, quoting from the Founding Fathers’ writings would help the liberals understand better. Or at least give them pause to rethink their positions.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_W5PYVKQUEKIWMA7HZNTBKV7HN4 Mayme

      Sorry, but I don’t really want to go back in time. I couldn’t vote, I would have to feed chickens, cook on a wooden stove, have 10 children, stay married to my abusive husband and do what the guy in the pointy hat in Rome said. Nope, I like moving forward, not going back! Our Founding Fathers were smart men and they were trying hard to get out from under control of the king and the kings corporation (East India Company). We got rid of one king but the corporations have just grown and grown.

      http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/07/10/founding-fathers/

  • Eirik

    This man’s ability to write coherently is pathetic. Of all the spewing, almost none of it had to do with left leaning Christians. Most of it was about left-leaning seculars. The only thing I really parsed out was his anger towards same-sex marriage. The right has co-oped Christianity to give their malicious views legitimacy. Try James 2:1-7. Republicans, ask yourself if this passage is representative of your political positions. This passage is a theme throughout the bible. Republicans…cherry pickers of the worst kind.

    • CommonSense

      It is always nice to see Liberals talking about $25,000 to $100,000 per plate dinners (and up) for BHO, whilst pointing the finger at Conservatives like Glen Beck who was forbidden to bring truckloads of food to the poor (who were eating out of dumpsters) by the Liberals in some of the cities run by Liberals. Liberals forbid Christianity in action.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZGWMGAMBVVHHKZDX7CPKKYU7PA Paul427

    This is not bigotry at all. It may be written in “shock” fashion, however it is correct on every observable level. The Democrat (and very liberal) platform talking points and agenda as of today are pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage, anti-defense, anti-public “religious” displays (except anything Islamic), anti-gun, anti-free market, anti-national security, anti-energy policy, anti-balanced budget amendment, pro-entitlement, and pro-taxation (of the so-called “rich”). It is also bent on class warfare as evidenced in the insane “Occupy” movements. As a teacher in the public schools as well as a college professor, I see this “bent” agenda is certainly anti-Christian (and anti-science for that matter), but hugely concerned with “political correctness” and promoting educational strategies that are purely impotent. The focus is no longer on right and wrong, but accepting “all viewpoints” regardless of moral implications. I saw one morally-bankrupt attempt in a public high school in NYC to link the Hiroshima bomb attack (complete with a living survivor) with the “moral depravity” of using of fission-based nuclear power. Or how about schools which give up on science educational field trips in favor of making sure there is always an ample supply of condoms on hand for their students during the school year? On top of this, I regularly learn of people in the schools – high school and college – who are “all right” with the tenets of Marxism/communism. One recently told me proudly that she had read the Communist Manifesto! (If you work in the role of a teacher or professor or interface with students and accept the legitimacy of these philosophies, you are far too ignorant to be teaching children or young adults in my opinion). In fact, there is no longer a want of “seasoned” educators who actually have some practical teaching experience (especially for children in the inner city) or wisdom, but the assumption is made today that the best way to approach the problem is to hire the brand new teachers right out of college, without a shred of practical experience – or life’s seasoning – to save the principal money in his or her budget. They are also presumed easier to “indoctrinate.” But notice how there never
    seems to be a legitimate demand that teachers take competency tests in their
    discipline! So James, I find your comments below invalid, most likely based on your personal presumption and not actual observation. Or perhaps you’re living in denial, thoroughly convinced that the liberals’ intellectual snobbery is justified because they supposedly are “open” to all people and all viewpoints, seeking to “preserve the best from each.” Well then, they are certainly not open to anything that is Christian or “too Christian” and consitently act to push our beloved republic toward moral depravity and destruction.

  • downs1

    Wow! A piece like this, by Doug Giles, really flushes out where folks stand from a spiritual point of view. Some folks are very obviously believers in God and the authority of Scripture, others are obviously not. One thing is for certain, this nation is deeply divided and as a nation has officially moved away from God. Not one of our leaders is standing up against the anti-Christian onslaught by the ACLU, MoveOn.org. et al. Our history is no longer important to many, and has become a point of contention. What was once our greatest strength has become a focus for ridicule and argument. But this has also been repeatedly described in Scripture. “Then man turned to his own way and did that which was right in his own eyes.”
    Whenever man has done this, he has been judged and eventually punished. People argue that this applies to ancient Israel. That is true, it did, but “God is the same yesterday, today and forever.” America’s God is the same God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. There are some people who deny this and call Him by another name! God’s precepts do not change simply because we fly in planes instead of ride camels, because we have microwaves instead of open hearths. The heart of man remains as wicked as it has always been. Admit it! As individuals and as governments we lie, we cheat, we steal, we commit adultery ( both physically and spiritually), we kill and maim others, we deceive and we walk away from God and try to “change” what He has said. We mock God! There is a divine penalty for such behavior. We will find out what that is quite soon. For you who shout that “”Christians are bigots!” and “Don’t judge others lest you be judged!” (a favorite comment of those who despise Christians) perhaps you would do well to really look closely at yourselves! Have a great day!

    • Wisesage

      Excellent! So very well put! Thank you, downs1!

  • CommonSense

    I agree with the ‘point’ of the message, but it is over the top with adjectives. Had it been more concise and to the point, I would have sent it to some Lib friends. Remember the KISS principles & Tell them what you are going to say, Tell them, Tell them what you said.

  • http://www.facebook.com/emibrown Emi Claire Brown

    This is just laughable.

  • CommonSense

    DID
    YOU KNOW?
    As
    you walk up the steps to the building which
    houses the U.S. Supreme
    Court you can
    see near the top of the building a row of the
    world’s law givers and each one is facing one in
    the middle who is facing forward with a full
    frontal view … It is Moses and he is holding
    the Ten
    Commandments!

    DID
    YOU KNOW?
    As
    you enter the Supreme
    Court courtroom,
    the two huge oak doors have the Ten Commandments
    engraved on each lower portion of each
    door.

    DID
    YOU KNOW?
    As you sit inside
    the courtroom, you can see the wall, right above
    where the Supreme Court
    Judges sit, a
    display of the Ten
    Commandments!

    DID
    YOU KNOW?

    There
    are Bible verses etched
    in stone all over the Federal Buildings and
    Monuments in Washington ,
    D.C.

    DID
    YOU KNOW?

    James
    Madison,
    the fourth president, known as
    ‘The
    Father of
    Our Constitution’
    made the
    Following
    statement:
    ‘We
    have staked the whole of all our political
    Institutions upon the capacity of mankind
    for Self-government,
    upon the capacity of each and all of us to
    govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to
    sustain ourselves according to The Ten
    Commandments of
    God.’

    DID
    YOU KNOW?
    Every
    session of Congress begins with a prayer by a
    paid preacher, whose salary has been paid by the
    taxpayer since 1777.

    DID
    YOU KNOW?

    Fifty-two
    of the 55 founders of the Constitution were
    members of the established Orthodox churches in
    the colonies..

    DID
    YOU KNOW?

    Thomas Jefferson
    worried
    that the Courts would overstep their authority
    and instead of Interpreting the law would begin
    making law an oligarchy the rule of few over
    many.

    How
    then, have we gotten to the point that
    everything we have done for 220 years in this
    Country is now suddenly wrong and
    Unconstitutional? These are great points to ponder.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_W5PYVKQUEKIWMA7HZNTBKV7HN4 Mayme

      Fifty-two
      of the 55 founders of the Constitution were
      members of the established Orthodox churches in
      the colonies..
      ….so which one do I have to belong to? Also, belonging to a church, doesn’t really make you a Christian.

  • jdbixii

    While it does sound discerningly discriminating, it is all very true. Compromise is an insidious enemy opening the door to the violation of principle. How many people are being saved because of vulnerability and compromise? And you can interpolate “saved” in a Christian or secular sense.

  • J. D. Bible

    The last paragraph in this article are where the problem lies. Do we base our lives on Scripture or on Political principles, i.e., Republican, Democrat, or otherwise.

    In regard to Judaism, recall that the first books of the Bible are the Torah. which is what YeshuaJesus espoused. Herod and the money changers did not live in regard to the Torah or Biblical laws. No need to explain, just look and think about it.

    Next, recall that the Torah was written many centuries prior to Yeshua’s physical life, and contained the guiding principles at that time. The current Bible is based on writings by Constantine and theologians many years later and fit their views. This also contained their interpretation of Yeshuas/Jesus’s views, statements and actions. Personally, I study all.

    Back to the beginning paragraph–Do we base our lives on Politics or our Religious principles?

  • John P.

    I think james doesn’t see what is happening in the USA , with the obama admistration and Christianity.

  • Alex

    Giles is right, and people like James are the walking dead. I am 57 years old and spent over 30 years in an “alternative” life style. My personal faith is in Christ and there is a new perspective. The biggest enemy to is the concept of grace because grace states that through Christ we can change, we can live, but, like conservatives who find freedom living “under” the rule of law, Christians live under the saving Grace of Jesus Christ our savior and Lord. Both submissions produce individual liberty and freedoms. Liberals embrace the lie of freedom that can only be generated when the government dictates culture and it is their sacred cow that isn’t getting gored. Right are nothing without liberty, and liberty is nothing without individual accountability and responsibility. The value of which is perfectly defined within the concept of Grace. The Christ model that inspired our founders.

    • Alex

      I did a typo, I meant to say that the biggest enemy to the left is the concept of Grace. Sorry.

  • BohdanUke1

    Excellent.

  • hannan

    I’m a liberal Christian, or thought I was a Christian until I read this kind, tolerant and inclusive persuasion piece. I have been wrong for so long. Doug Giles you are so much like Jesus and now you show me the light! Your humility is especially gratifying.
    Wait! This isn’t a persuasive argument here? Oh, I see, you are just rolling in the hate with the Pharisses and the Sedducces. Good job, dude.

    • tevans9129

      Real Christians do not approve of killing the innocent, real Christians do not approve of what God calls an abomination, real Christians believe that God said what He meant and means what He said when He gave the ten commandants that this country was founded upon. If you really are a “Christian”, how about quoting the scripture that states a person is being “hateful” if he points out the disobedience of God’s written word. Liberal, Christian, diametrically opposed.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_W5PYVKQUEKIWMA7HZNTBKV7HN4 Mayme

        One of the Ten Commandments is the keep the Sabbath holy. Are you not working on Saturdays?

        • tevans9129

          Actually, there are not many days that I do work. To answer
          your question, yes, I do what some would consider work on Saturdays, as I am
          not Jewish. And since Jesus said, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not
          man for the Sabbath”, I choose Sunday as my day of rest, although, I am
          not sure what “day” one chooses is critical, according to scripture.
          Out of the ten commandments, there is only one of them that is not either
          directly or indirectly mentioned in the NT, do you know which one that is?

          Have you ever checked the NT to see how many time Jesus
          broke the Jewish law of the Sabbath? How do you explain this quote from Jesus,
          “You hypocrites, does not each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or his
          donkey from the stall and lead him away to water him?” Is that not
          breaking the Sabbath?

  • skychaser1951

    This country has no problem James. You have the problem. Even with tangible proof in your face you still can’t see anything but your own blank face

  • Dwayne Bevins

    Doug Giles, I don’t know you from Adam…and I would never have the gall to tell you that you aren’t a Christian just because of your Conservative/Republican beliefs. And if you are a Bible believing Christian then you have made a mockery out of it and the Lord above with this insipid piece of garbage you call an article. I have other choice words and sentiments I would love to tell you. I won’t share then here for fear of how many prayers for forgiveness from my Lord and Saviour I would need to ask. You and those who think like you, and there are MANY, give Christianity a black eye and a bad name. No wonder it is getting harder to win souls for Christ.

  • agbjr

    What is worse are the ministers who use their pulpits to
    praise “social conscience” and Democrat policies. I walked out of my
    church when the pastor (installed over objections of nearly half the
    congregation) began leading prayers at every service specifically for “our President and leader, Barrack Obama”. I will not attend services there again
    until he is removed.

    • Jo

      Ah, but if he mentioned George W. Bush, you’d have no problem, correct? How hypocritical.

  • rockcut

    Sorry this article is total nonsense.

    • tevans9129

      Oh good rockcut, would you provide some evidence that his statement, “For the “Christian” to lean politically to the left means that he must
      blow off huge chunks of the Bible and replace Scripture with the
      make-believe notions of PC’s malleable “Christ.” is wrong?

  • http://www.facebook.com/brad.klassen.16 Brad Klassen

    Mr. Giles forgot the registered trademark symbol after Christian. If you mean Christian as in Christ follower, you have very little choice but to be liberal.

  • http://andrewbacon.info/ Andrew Bacon

    So you guys don’t wear blended fabrics and you marry your brother’s wife if he dies, right? And if your wife isn’t a virgin when you marry her, you kill her by throwing rocks at her, right? Since we’re following scripture?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=9432879 J.j. Stambaugh

    Sigh. Yet the conservatives I know ignore virtually all of Christ’s teaching. They openly despise and mock the poor, they love money more than their neighbors and celebrate virtually any police that accumulates wealth no matter the costs to the poor (despite the fact that love of money is the root of all evil, according to the Bible), and they tend to be law-and-order types who think sinners should be imprisoned or killed rather than forgiven. And they most assuredly do want a “big” government — a government ruled by them, which will force their version of Christianity down everyone else’s throat. All the liberals have been trying to do is make sure that everyone can live and practice their religion as they wish (or not) — I find it frightening that the Right seems to believe that they are being attacked just because not everyone buys into their bankrupt theology.

  • Rick

    The very fact that you think Jesus gives a crap about your petty politics is proof that you don’t even understand your own religion. But there’s no getting through to you bunch of lunkheads because you’ve wrapped yourself in a narrative and there’s no turning back. Jesus himself couldn’t convince you. You remind me of the Ayatollahs in Iran.

  • http://twitter.com/SynergisticPen C S Stone

    you need Jesus.. for real.

  • http://www.facebook.com/juan.m.garcia.jr Juan Garcia

    The biggest load of crap I have read in years.

  • Mahmot the Essene

    It’s obvious that you have never read the New Testament. You’ve been led astray, brainwashed by greedy people who have bent and twisted Christianity to fit their agendas of acquiring wealth, while making you believe that it is all ok. Stop listening to them and read the New Testament. Jesus words are very clear. He speaks in parables to make sure we “get it”. You don’t need to go to church. May Jesus bless us all.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_W5PYVKQUEKIWMA7HZNTBKV7HN4 Mayme

    A very good look at Christ
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YbUEZfJJaQ

  • Nobodey

    Christ was a liberal. That fact can’t be argued by an intelligent being. If you have doubt of that, show me a single case of Jesus advocating for lower taxes, ignoring the poor, preaching hate of any kind or the infringement of anyone’s personal rights unless those rights infringe upon some one else’s more important rights.
    Once you hit that insurmountable wall, ready the story of the widows and their mites. Then follow that up with Jesus’s view on the money changers. Go on, go ahead, I will be here, waiting..

  • mondaymorningQB

    But it’s Christian to vote for a party that promotes war and the destruction of god’s green earth in the name of profit? A party that has armed our enemies time and again. The so called small government forces that trained and funded the Taliban to fight the Soviets and also provided Saddam with Chemical weapons in the 80′s. This is voting for Christian values?

    • tevans9129

      Really, what party voted for Korea, what party voted for Viet Nam, how many democrats voted to attack Afghanistan? Is it not amazing that there are no “rich” democrats or is that a sin only for republicans? Oh, I would like to see your documentation of the US providing Saddam with chemical weapons, if you have any.

  • Robobenito

    Is Doug Giles a member of the Taliban? If not, you guys should get together, you totally share a great deal of similar ideas.

  • http://www.facebook.com/WillTurnerRocksJenny Willie N Jenny Turner

    Jesus is a liberal.

  • mondaymorningQB

    Also if Christians are being pushed aside why has every single president and the vast VAST majority of politicians claimed Christianity? All the while only being concerned with their own pwer lust and greed.

  • mondaymorningQB

    The more I look at this site the more I realize what a hypocracy it is? When did Jesus walk around armed looking for a fight with his authoritarian shades? Just for the record I fully support the right to own firearms but I don’t pretend killing is for Jesus.

  • docmark

    Dear Mr. Giles,

    Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s
    law. I have learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge
    with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual
    lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states
    it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however,
    regarding some of the other specific laws and how to best follow
    them.

    When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it
    creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors.
    They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this?

    I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as it suggests
    in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for
    her?

    I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is
    in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do
    I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

    Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that
    are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not
    Canadians. Can you clarify?

    I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath.
    Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to
    kill him myself?

    A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
    abomination (Lev. 10:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t
    agree. Can you settle this?

    Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if
    I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does
    my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

    I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am
    confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is
    eternal and unchanging.

  • Christine

    This is hilarious. As a born again Christian, I am a liberal BECAUSE of my faith in Christ, not in spite of it. You probably think health care is a privilege that only the wealthy should have access to, and I’ll go out on a limb and suggest that your pro-life stance ends at birth, as opposed to those of us “liberals” who are anti abortion – but also anti-let-them-die-in-the-streets.

    Christianity has been hijacked by the greed of the RW, but thankfully, there are boatloads of people like me keeping people like you in check.

    • Erica

      Amen. One thing is for sure, it’s not easy to mix politics and religion and still maintain love for one’s fellow man. I’m not reading a lot of love here. I would also be willing to read a reasoned commentary, backed up by scripture, on why liberalism and Christianity don’t mix, for the sake of fairness if nothing else. I actually like having reasoned discussions with Conservatives when they are also willing to have a civil discussion. This was not it. This was a rant.
      Meanwhile, I don’t remember Jesus having an issue with giving away health care. Nor with helping the poor.

  • Ilsa B

    I wish people would read about Jesus and what he did and stop acting like Peter all ready to cut off someone’s ear on impulse. If you follow Jesus, you are going to happily advocate for the poor while rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar’s. You are not going to moan and proclaim that big government is bigger than God (because this is exactly what you are doing, oh ye of little faith). I can find no reason for all the resentment and bitterness and hatred spewed by the likes of Limbaugh and his followers, except perhaps fear that God has forsaken them. To claim that the Grace of God fills you with peace and then to turn around and spew hatred against half the citizens of this country is not only unpatriotic but also hypocritical. Trust God and go in peace. Forgive as you have been forgiven. This is The Way.

  • incredulous

    Between this guys’ article and even worse, the comments below, this is a seriously scary look into the psyche of the modern American Christian belief structure. Holy cow…

  • doingmybest

    Doesn’t a Christian have to ‘blow off’ a huge portion of the bible to be a conservative as well? What about ‘do not judge’ or ‘love one another’ or the eye of the needle thing for the rich? This is yet another example of greedy, self rightious people using poor, ignorant, ]albeit sometimes well meaning] people for political and financial gain! I think this propaganda is ridiculous and unconsionable!

    • tevans9129

      Not at all, it only requires an understanding of the
      scriptures taken in context. I can selectively choose verses that would
      indicate to the uneducated Bible person that God condones adultery and murder,
      does that make it true? No, not at all. The issues that you refer to are
      logically explained and convey a completely different meaning when they are
      taken in context, from what you have suggested. Please keep in mind, there are
      many people that use the “Christian” label for their personal gain
      who are not Bible believing Christians. There are also many very good people
      that believe they are Christians but in essence are cafeteria style Christians.
      IOWs, they like, “love thy neighbor” and want a big helping of that
      but when it come to something like, “You shall not lie with a male as one
      lies with a female; it is an abomination”, then no, do not think I will
      have any of that today, it does not sit very well with me. God says that His word is for our learning, all of it, not just the parts that we like.

      • doingmybest

        more name calling? seriously? you are most certainly one of the people using the label Christian for your personal and political gain. It seems to me you take only the scripture that fits your self righteous nature and judge other who disagree with you.
        ‘And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? ‘

  • http://www.cafepress.com/bulliesforromney Bullies For Romney

    I’ve never seen more words compressed into the least amount of rational thought ever.

  • Steve

    heehee What a silly article.
    (Deep male voice) “You can’t b, err, a LIBERAL, and err, a CHRISTIAN, because, errr, they’re different religions. No, wait. Errr, that is, one is a political position, and the other, err, is a religion, but, err, stay with me, you just can’t be both. The, um, political position, is also a religious, err position. Your view of government is also your view of God, somehow…you just can’t DAMMIT! Listen to your man! Men know things!”
    Oh, and what’s a “huntress”? Is that like Catniss Everdeen? Or is it a hunter with breasts?
    heehee so silly.

  • Aqua Grump

    But Jesus himself was a liberal progressive. You-all have read the four gospels – right. The whole message of love, inclusion, charity and faith is what we liberals are all about. The whole conflict between Jesus and the Sanhedrin (conservative religion establishment of the day) is no different is no different than the conservative religious right of today. The Sanhedrin didn’t like the Jesus’s message the pressured the government of the day to do their dirty work for them. ”
    I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. The materialism of affluent Christian countries appears to contradict the claims of Jesus Christ that says it’s not possible to worship both Mammon and God at the same time.” –
    Gandhi

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Fred-Mitchell/100000126962566 Fred Mitchell

    Good, glad to know liberals are not Christians

  • Tim Jordan

    Is this a tongue-in-cheek parody? If so it’s really funny. When I read articles like this it just reinforces the idea that I’m much happier being an atheist.

  • Breemeup

    With all due respect, I am a Christian and a liberal. The reason why I’m a liberal is because the Republican party in this nation promotes bigotry and selfishness. Also, none of this is true. As a child in school, every Thursday we were given “Religious Release” time when we would leave school two hours early to learn about God. So, schools are accomodating of Christianity. And the reason why Christianity has no place in the government is because we have a seperation of church and state in this country. As a Christian, I believe strongly in welfare, affirmative action, and pacifism. Why? Because it’s Biblical.
    Also, this quote “In addition to liberalism’s obvious and odious pro-Holocaust-like abortion stance, its anti-biblical view of marriage, its Scripture-slamming, aggressive secularism, and its feckless view of our nation’s defense, liberalism completely clashes with the Christian worldview. Progressivism’s aggressive desire to eradicate Christians’ rights should cause Christians to be concerned.” is easily the most ridiculous thing I’ve read in a while. Nobody actually likes abortion. You know that, right? We don’t like it when abortion happens, however, I have no right to stand in the way of somebody who feels it is necessary to get one. I don’t know her situation, she know her body more than anyone, and as such, should get to make any decisions concerning her body. As for the “anti-biblical view of marriage”, even if I, as a Christian DID believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman, I cannot force others to not believe in gay marriage because of my religious beliefs. Again, seperation of church and state. Don’t like gay marriage? Don’t get gay married. And “feckless view of our nation’s defense”… What does that even mean? That we’re unChristian because we don’t believe in war? Because we’re pro-immigrant? Yeah, war is un Biblical and just glorified murder. No one wants to “eradicate Christians’ rights”. Give me one instance when your rights were trampled on because you are a Christian. That has certainly never happened to me.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jarryn.shaffner Jarryn Shaffner

    thank you for implying that secuarism is satanism, the point is to treatall religions with respect but not claiming one is better or worse. When cristianity loses power they call it persecution, when infact its that they havent had their power challenged in their homeland for over 1500 years

  • Bill Wheaton

    This is an ignorant and narrow view of what being a Christian means. Most of what Christ taught were liberal, progressive, even socialist ideas, and it is very sad that some people feel the need to rewrite it to match what the right-wing propaganda machine spews forth.

    To say you can’t be both is a falsehood. To spread it is bearing false witness.

  • 1Emmit

    George Orwell (1984, Animal Farm) described a characteristic of Big Brother’s DOUBLETHINK which was “the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one’s mind
    simultaneously, and accepting both of them… To tell deliberate lies
    while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become
    inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back
    from oblivion for just as long as it is needed, to deny the existence
    of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality
    which one denies – all this is indispensably necessary.” Yep, I think Giles may be on to something.

  • Lefty Christian

    This is the stupidest thing I have ever read. Lies and fear. Must have been written by a neo-con. I can assure you that Jesus was one of those Liberals you hate so much.

  • hippty hoppy

    Dewayne Bevens. Here again White Liberal Trash trying to sneak in as a dyed in the wool believer in our Yeshua. I realize some will be fooled by your lies, but most of us we don’t. I will do nothing to prevent a women to have an abortion. We all find our way into salvation or damnation on our own. I pray they will be forgiven for their sin and sin it is, if not why do so many women need counseling before and after. If not why do so many women carry that regret with them all their life? Yes YESHAU will judge us all. And by the way it will be Yeshau to judge the world and NOT YAHWEH. White Liberal Trash are a cancer thats eating away the body of our Glorious Republic. Dr. Savage has said many times that Liberalism is a mental disease and it truly is. You would counsel women about abortion!! It is to cry to read what you wrote. You suggesting a young women have an abortion is not the way of Yeshau. You’ve been exposed Bevens we know who you are.

  • its me

    If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
    This is something to be glad about really.If the world loves us then we are not beng like Jesus was.Persecution is starting more everyday in America.
    Yes it is impossible to be a liberal and a christian.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Gloria-Wedemeyer/100000979472300 Gloria Wedemeyer

    I am not a strong christian as I have a lot in the bible I just don’t understand, but I am sick of God being taken out of this country, of the pledge of allegiance going by the way side,
    by my losing my right to fly my flag whenever and wherever I want, that I have to keep my mouth shut about immoral behavior, of having to be political correct in what my opinions are. I don’t care who I offend, I have my beliefs and not afraid to live them.

    • tevans9129

      Amen!!

  • jgtbh

    I guess I can’t be a Christian then…It’s hard for me to understand how pushing people away from Christ serves the Kingdom of God…Your hate is destroying the perception of Christians in America, and people like you are the main reason I don’t go to church anymore…a place of love has turned into a House of Hate, not of God….Peace

  • relieved

    read this and was glad to discover i could be both a liberal and a devout christian. and that i don’t require a single thing that could get “taken away” to remain a practicing christian.

  • Jeb

    This is some particularly impressive ignorant vitriol. I would recommend going back and actually reading the Bible. There’s quite a bit in there about helping the poor, something liberals are deeply concerned with. Also, most liberals respect religious faith–and are people of faith– and don’t want faith to be extinguished from the public square; but we do think it’s inappropriate to use the power of government to enforce religious dogma. Your caricature of liberalism is the classic straw man argument. It’s obvious you don’t have any real understanding of what liberals believe.

  • Phatty

    You guys sure put the ‘fun’ in fundamentalism!

  • Godslocks

    A resounding amen! How can anyone who claims to follow Christ vote for a candidate who is pro-abortion/pro-choice and anti-Biblical marriage? Face the truth -you are a stupid communist
    drone and a ‘useful idiot of Satan. I say better you than me!

    • one77

      Here’s some interesting parts of the Bible about marriage. Please read if you’re not already familiar:

      (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)

      So they sent twelve thousand warriors to
      Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children.
      “This is what you are to do,” they said. “Completely destroy all the males and
      every woman who is not a virgin.” Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they
      found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they
      brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.

      The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to
      the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the
      men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of
      Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not
      enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the
      LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked,
      “How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe
      of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire
      tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own
      daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who
      does this will fall under God’s curse.”

      Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD
      held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that
      goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed
      wives, “Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for
      their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them
      home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in
      protest, we will tell them, ‘Please be understanding. Let them have your
      daughters, for we didn’t find enough wives for them when we destroyed
      Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give
      your daughters in marriage to them.’” So the men of Benjamin did as they were
      told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried
      them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns
      and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families,
      and they returned to their own homes.

      “If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and
      rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl’s father fifty
      shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He
      can never divorce her as long as he lives” (Deuteronomy 22:28–29)

      (2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)

      Thus says the Lord: ‘I will bring evil upon you out
      of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see
      it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad
      daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the
      presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.’

      Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against
      the Lord.” Nathan answered David: “The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin:
      you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed,
      the child born to you must surely die.”

      (Deuteronomy 21:10-14
      NAB)

      “When you go out to war against your
      enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take
      captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of
      her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house.
      But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and
      lay aside her captive’s garb. After she has mourned her father and mother
      for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband
      and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for
      her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell
      her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion.”

      (Exodus
      21:7-11 NLT)

      When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will
      not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the
      man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not
      allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract
      with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he
      may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter.
      If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her
      food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of
      these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.
      (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

      Genesis 16:3King James Version (KJV)

      3 And
      Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had
      dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram
      to be his wife.

      1 Kings 11:3King James Version (KJV)

      3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.

      Also there haven’t been any Republican presidents that have outlawed abortion.

  • Dill

    This just in: the blood of Christ no longer determines whether you’re saved or not. It’s all about political opinion to get into heaven.

    Seriously, can we see some evidence behind these claims? I’d be very interested in reading an well-researched article about how liberals are the opposite of Christianity, but I’ve yet to find one. All opinion bro, all opinion.

    And if someone is going to respond to this, don’t just say, “you’re wrong.” At least back up your claims with scripture or something. Be credible.

  • Keyser Soze

    Christ was a nonwhite Arabic community organizer who cared about social justice and told people to “share the wealth” and pay their taxes.

    I think the person YOU idiolize is called Pharaoh, or maybe Lucifer. Lucifer was the world’s first Objectivist.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_W5PYVKQUEKIWMA7HZNTBKV7HN4 Mayme

    OMG! Ralphie, the Pharisee, is at it again. He should be in jail.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/03/ralph-reed-christians-need-beg-forgiveness_n_1738745.html

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Strattan-White/100000182953502 David Strattan White

    Dear Mr. Giles,

    I am writing you to make you aware of a grievance you have
    done me, and in the spirit of Christ to forgive you for that grievance. I stand accused by you of not being a
    Christian. You have made some bold
    claims as evidence that I am not a Christian due to my support of liberal
    values and legislation.

    Addressing your first point, which seems to call for an
    integration of church and state. I
    believe in God. I believe in Jesus. I believe that I will answer to Him and His
    Law on my day of judgment. But I also
    love my neighbor. And my neighbor may
    have differences of opinion about the nature of our Creator. It is not for me to govern this person’s
    relationship with their lord, whether that be Jaweh, Jesus, Buddha, Muhammod,
    or anyone else. It is for God. The United States Government is not qualified
    to pass laws in the name of God. Only
    God can do that.

    Further, my ancestors were Quakers. Due to the integration of the Church and
    State in the late 1600s in England, my forefathers were persecuted, and
    sometimes killed for their beliefs. The
    Church of England believed William Penn’s followers’ beliefs to be blasphemous,
    so they were executed. This, and other
    stories of religious persecution of the time, was the chief reason for establishing
    the separation of Church and State in our great nation. This is why liberals tend to fight for the
    rights of all religions. Not just Christianity.
    You wonder why I support a government that respects a theologically
    plural world? It’s because Jesus
    commands it.

    You also made the statement that “the Ten
    Commandments have about as much acceptance in our government and their
    properties as Rush Limbaugh would at Sandra Fluke’s family reunion.” I wondered what it would be like if the Ten Commandments
    were law. So I went commandment by
    commandment and asked myself how this could be legislated, and whether I
    thought it should be.

    The first commandment states that “Thou shall honor no other gods before me.” However important this commandment may be fore
    Jews and Christians, our nation was founded by persecuted protestant
    Christians, who were victims of the merge between church and state. Religious freedom is vital, and that makes
    this law impossible to legislate. I
    don’t think any wants to make Judaism (or with a little dancing around the
    context, Christianity) a legal mandate, because that is what adherence to this
    first commandment would mean. Further, a
    conservative who tried to pass this legislation would need to demolish
    load-baring sections of the constitution.

    “Thou shalt not make
    unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing, that is in heaven
    above, that is in earth beneath or that is in the water beneath the earth.” I looked up the word “graven.” It means engraved, or indelible in one’s
    mind. So to legislate this commandment,
    the U.S. government would have to outlaw sculptures, or the imagination of
    images. I think the major business that
    are the hallmark of conservative free trade would have a major problem without
    the use of indelible images to sell their wares.

    Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them,
    nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the
    iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation
    of them that hate me. After
    the language of the first commandment, this has always seemed redundant to me,
    as it was covered in the first commandment.
    Therefore, my response to the first commandment holds true for this
    accepted interpretation of the second.

    This brings me to my favorite part: Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD
    thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name
    in vain.

    Here’s the
    thing. Taking the name of the Lord in
    vain doesn’t just mean saying “God.” When you’re upset. It means abusing His name by claiming his
    endorsement when he hasn’t offered any.
    Such as declaring that “God is on my side and not on your side.” Kind of like someone declaring that “Liberals
    cannot be Christians.” That is one
    example of taking the name of the lord in vain.
    I believe strongly in the principles Jesus espoused in his Sermon on the
    Mount. I believe that to be Christ’s
    order for me to support Liberal values like love for my fellow man, charity,
    and acceptance of others’ beliefs. God
    will judge every man for his actions, but it is not for me to do so. If you say that you’re a Christian, I believe
    you, though I do not particularly agree that this essay is very Christ-like. It
    is not for me to judge. Nor do I
    appreciate your suggesting that a liberal cannot be a Christian. You have a right to say that, and I do not
    think that it means that you’re not a Christian. But like me, you’re not perfect. And it is not very Christianly to make such
    cruel and foolish accusations.

    Remember the Sabath Day to keep it holy.
    Would the G.O.P like to sponsor a bill outlawing work on Saturday? Or if you’d like to update it to our
    contemporary Christianity, Sunday? What
    would that do to free trade?

    Honor thy Father and Mother.
    This commandment is hard to put into tangible practice. Can we make “honoring” something a legal
    mandate? Mother’s Day and Father’s Day
    are national Holidays. Is that
    enough? The greatest way for a government
    to honor fathers and mothers seems to me to be through Medicare, which has long
    been a liberal priority.

    Thou shalt not Kill.
    And that’s illegal. Check.

    Thou shalt not Commit Adultery.
    Adultery is discouraged through civil courts. I’ve never really thought seriously about
    outlawing adultery. It seems like a bad
    idea to me. It seems like applying this
    commandment to law would be a gross over-reaching of federal authority.

    Thou shalt not Steal. Again, this one’s already illegal.
    Check.

    Thou shalt not bear false witness
    against thy neighbor. In certain contexts, lying is
    illegal. But by and large, again, this
    would be impossible to legislate. Can
    you imagine the tyrannical regime that prosecuted people for lying about how
    much they ate for desert? Slander is
    illegal.

    Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s
    house, wife, manservant, maidservant, his ox, his ass, or anything that is thy
    neighbors. The liberal ideology may be flawed. But at its core is the idea that it is
    government’s responsibility to help those in need. Conservatives frequently
    suggest that liberals are just looking for a handout. The truth is most liberals are just looking
    to hand something out. Much like Jesus
    did when he only had two loaves of bread and a fish. You can’t outlaw
    envy. But you can connect charity to
    liberalism. Remember that Jesus didn’t
    give the bread and the fish to the wealthiest, with the assumption that they
    would eat all they wanted and feed the masses with whatever they didn’t want or
    couldn’t eat.

    There has never been a liberal desire to eliminate the national
    holidays. This is Rhetorical bluster,
    and is unsound.

    Under your second heading, to support your claim that
    liberals cannot be Christians, you complain that the public school system would
    rather encourage students to follow Castro than to follow Jesus. I’m sure that you were making that claim to
    exaggerate what you feel is Christian persecution in the public schools. Of course public schools don’t support the
    philosophy of Castro. You know that as
    well as I. But you’re missing the
    point. We don’t prevent teachers from teaching Christianity to protect the
    schools from Christianity, but to protect Christianity from the schools. Once the teacher teaches religion, they
    become the religious authority. Do you
    want public teachers, educated in academics, to teach your children about
    God? Your child’s teacher might be a
    liberal.

    The idea that this is a Christian nation, and our Christian
    children must be educated in public Christian schools, is tantamount to making
    belief and acceptance of Christ a Federal Mandate. This sounds closer to the tactics of Castro
    than to the tactics of Christ. One has
    to CHOOSE Christ. If it’s law, then
    there’s no choice. Further, government
    telling people what they have to believe is religious persecution, nearly as
    bad as executing those who believe differently.

    Now that we have established that we cannot outlaw every
    non-Christian religion, just imagine that you were a Christian in the
    minority. You haven’t enough money to
    give your child a private education, so they have to go to public school. At this public school, they only taught
    Islam. How would you feel? This is how our Jewish, Islamic, Buddhist,
    Xinto, Hindic, and other neighbors feel already. We are trying to sustain a government in
    which the people have religious freedom, which is much more valuable to
    Christianity than a government that abused our neighbors of other beliefs.

    I believe that you have a good heart. But I believe that you have not fully
    considered my perspective. You may not
    like art that questions things. I’ve
    never seen Christian symbols smeared with elephant dung. But I can tell you that a great deal of
    controversial religious art is meant to be a catalyst for spiritual search, and
    not a criticism.

    It is God’s job to judge us, and no one else’s. I forgive you, because I know that God
    will. But I pray that you can learn to
    first attempt to understand views that are in opposition to your own. If you cannot, then I beg you to please
    refrain from telling others that I am not Christian.

    Sincerely,

    David Strattan White

    • Wisesage

      Wow…way too much thinking happening here! Problem with most who don’t truly understand God is that they are too much in their head! Humble yourself and come away from the devil’s mind games – let God do the thinking for you. Only then will you get what is trying to be said in this article.

  • Shamus

    Well, James, that shows me how useless your life must be!!! You’re the kind of person that we HOPE you don’t believe what he writes. Then we don’t have to bother with you, a non-entity!

  • http://www.facebook.com/dnarsh Destiny Narsh

    What a load of bologna.

  • Ralph

    Helping the poor at all cost is stupid. In the Bible the “poor” had to work for their food in the Old Testament and in the New we are told that if a person refuses to work, they should not eat. (Deuteronomy 15:7-11; Leviticus 19-10; Matthew 20:10-15; Acts 5:4; 2 Thessalonians 3:10) The Apostle also taught that what a person had was theirs to do with as they pleased but also God would hold the rich in this world responsible for what they did with their riches (1 Timothy 6:17-19), not government. So taking from people to feed the poor is not what God had in mind, nor what is taught. So the article stands. Think before your speak.

    • tevans9129

      Very good, and with substance.

  • Craig

    Giles doesn’t know enough about Christianity to be able to say who can or can’t be one. He has has been made blind to Jesus by his misguided ideology. Here’s a decent response a young fellow has written to Giles’ slander.
    http://johncokeefe.com/2012/08/03/a-response-to-you-can-be-a-christian-or-a-liberal-but-not-both/

  • http://www.facebook.com/joseph.molina.58 Joseph Molina

    well that was thoroughly unenjoyable.

    i notice the author makes a lot of references to christianity and christian values. Has he even read the constitution? People left england to be free of the tyranical religion controlled governments of europe. Its not about bashing christians, its simply about making this country fair for all. For example.. why shouldnt gays be able to marry just because of your belief that marriage is defined by god? Or why should women have to be made second class citizens because of your interpretation of a few verses from the book of corinthians? This country isnt just for christians, its for everybody.

    and on the other end of the spectrum… jesus never really talks about gay marriage, or abortion, free markets or low taxes. That peace loving hippy socialist is as far away from ayn rand as you can get. 1 in 7 verses from the new testament are about the poor, something republicans have a horrible track record on.

    Jesus never told his followers to force their beliefs on others, he never said to persecute those who are different from you whether by race, sexual orientation religion or creed; but instead to love one another and care for each other.

    Anyone who actually thinks a vote for the “Right” would be more christian should really take a look at
    Mathew 25:31-46 were jesus says “As you do unto the least of theese, you do unto me”
    Or maybe Acts 2:44-45 and 4:34 -47 were everyone sells their belongings and parted them unto all men so none would go without….. what a bunch of socialist hippies.

  • MrDrProfessorGinger

    This is the most amazingly ignorant slab of Conservative propaganda I have ever read, and that’s saying something. Let’s not forget that Jesus condemned the rich too. Conservatives sure do like to skim that part.

  • marineh2ominer

    No news here , all religion has to go so that we can worship our government without silly distractions like Christ and God .

  • 2War Abn Vet

    If you read Hawthorne’s “Scarlet Letter” back in high school, you’re aware that immorality was once frowned upon and punished – sometimes severely – in this country. It seems we’ve turned full circle. In our modern society immorality is not only countenanced, but celebrated. Instead, it is morality that is chastised and castigated. You need look back only to last week’s Chick-fil-A brouhaha to understand the validity of my comment.

  • kim i

    why do christian guerrillas continue to insist that christianity is the foundation of our nation? the revisionist history that claims so is just that: revisionist. thomas jefferson was, at most, a deist. thomas paine was an out-and-out atheist. one of their primary concerns was that people who adhered stringently to a particular religion would come into power and then force through laws based on that religion, and favoring that religion, at the expense of free speech and of individual freedom to worship as the individual chooses.

    i don’t want to take away the rights of my christian family to pray when they want to (including at school) or go to the church of their choice, or worship in any way they choose. likewise, i don’t want even THEM — although i love them dearly — to dictate my beliefs to me.

    this ideology of exclusion you preach is, i believe, at the heart of our country’s tragedy. we used to welcome diversity, and to respect people even when their opinions differed from our own. now we have this kind of thing: scaring people with promises of hell if they don’t fall into line, lockstepping behind militant leaders who never met a subject they couldn’t dictate the “proper” response to.

    • LibertysSon

      My views….are the result of a lifetime of inquiry and reflection, and very different from the anti-Christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions.
      To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself.
      I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference to all others…
      Thomas Jefferson

  • JayKay

    Vague, untrue generalities and flawed logic. Great job. I kept reading wondering if he’d ever present some actual thing to back up his thesis. Nope.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ragamuffinlife Eric Allan Morgan

    Wow, so did you run this by Pastor Phelps before you posted it? Sure sounds like it. If one is truly following the teachings and examples set forth by Jesus Christ, then life will be full of things that most “conservative” people hate. Granted, I am not saying that big government is the answer to anything, but what do Christians expect people to turn to when the church has abandoned them? It’s like this whole Chik fil a thing. Mr Cathy is a nice guy. I had the good fortune to meet him after convocation when I was a seminary student. I guarantee you that if you had asked him what the best way to react to these shenanigans was; he wouldn’t have said, “Oh, let’s have a solidarity eat at my restaurant day.” He is a blessed man because he honors God. What I believe he would have said was something along the lines of, “Thats a great sentiment, but why don’t you take your money and your droves of people to volunteer at a homeless shelter or a soup kitchen.” I really don’t think I’m giving him too much credit. It’s petty junk like this and drivel like your article that propagates miss-education of the saints. God gave us all a mandate- heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the leapers and cast out demons. Feed the orphans and make sure the widowed and less fortunate are taken care of. These are the principles that make pseudo christians like you squirm in your pants. To know that Christ set up the church to act as a communalist society. The church has failed. So do something about it. I do. Get your hands dirty. Volunteer and show Christ’s love by meeting people where they are. Your rhetoric is very similar to that of the racist christian guard of the 50′s, 60′s and smatterings to this day that believe bull like it’s against Gods plan to mix races in marriage. That if you smoke or drink somehow that negates Gods grace and will send you to hell. Oh yeah, don’t for get dancing and music with a syncopated beat. Oh, and my favorite… Don’t commit suicide because it’s a mortal sin and you will be damned to hell. You can’t show me one place that Jesus or his Father EVER said any of that and yet you spew your ignorance still. Maybe go back to school study a little Hebrew and Greek- Then read your Bible again. I promise, you won’t regret it, but if you don’t you will continue to shame the Gospel and dishonor the God you claim to serve.

  • Light_V_Dark

    Mr. Giles,

    I believe a couple dozen people from the latter half of the last century, till Judgement Day are going to get to say Hi, To Saint Peter.

    Islam is evil. Gay-Theism is EVIL.

    <b It is almost as dangerous in AmeriKa, to own a Bible, as it is in China, or Yemen. Why do you suppose?

    —God gave them over[gave up on you] to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Romans 1

    Note; Faux-Christian-POSSUMS, ARE MORE DETESTABLE THAN THE PAGAN HIPPIES, BLOODTHIRSTY JIHADISTS & THE OCCUPIED X DEMONS.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ragamuffinlife Eric Allan Morgan

    Wow, so did you run this by Pastor Phelps before you posted it? Sure sounds like it. If one is truly following the teachings and examples set forth by Jesus Christ, then life will be full of things that most “conservative” people hate. Granted, I am not saying that big government is the answer to anything, but what do Christians expect people to turn to when the church has abandoned them? It’s like this whole Chik fil a thing. Mr Cathy is a nice guy. I had the good fortune to meet him after convocation when I was a seminary student. I guarantee you that if you had asked him what the best way to react to these shenanigans was; he wouldn’t have said, “Oh, let’s have a solidarity eat at my restaurant day.” He is a blessed man because he honors God. What I believe he would have said was something along the lines of, “Thats a great sentiment, but why don’t you take your money and your droves of people to volunteer at a homeless shelter or a soup kitchen.” I really don’t think I’m giving him too much credit. It’s petty junk like this and drivel like your article that propagates miss-education of the saints. God gave us all a mandate- heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the leapers and cast out demons. Feed the orphans and make sure the widowed and less fortunate are taken care of. These are the principles that make pseudo christians like you squirm in your pants. To know that Christ set up the church to act as a communalist society. The church has failed. So do something about it. I do. Get your hands dirty. Volunteer and show Christ’s love by meeting people where they are. Your rhetoric is very similar to that of the racist christian guard of the 50′s, 60′s and smatterings to this day that believe bull like it’s against Gods plan to mix races in marriage. That if you smoke or drink somehow that negates Gods grace and will send you to hell. Oh yeah, don’t for get dancing and music with a syncopated beat. Oh, and my favorite… Don’t commit suicide because it’s a mortal sin and you will be damned to hell. You can’t show me one place that Jesus or his Father EVER said any of that and yet you spew your ignorance still. Maybe go back to school study a little Hebrew and Greek- Then read your Bible again. I promise, you won’t regret it, but if you don’t you will continue to shame the Gospel and dishonor the God you claim to serve.

  • Light_V_Dark

    We are committing SUICIDE!···
    $$$¢¢¢₩₩₩kill§§§₩₩₩$$$¢¢¢we_hate₩₩₩₩₩€=·Q
    At the siege of Vienna in 1683 Islam seemed poised to overrun Christian Europe.
    We are in a new phase of a very old war.

    So, we see a case of causeless, self-destructive hatred. This senseless and absolutely irrational self-hatred could be explained by only one thing: the suicide syndrome characteristic of cultures in their last stage of dying. In lack of ideals, vital forces, and even instinct of self-preservation they surrender themselves to barbarians, with flattering and even masochistic humility give themselves up to rough and despotic conquerors.

    http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2009/07/pinnacle-of-self-destruction.html?m=1

  • Jack Kintner

    You seem so sure of yourself. But what about Acts 2:4? That’s pretty liberal, some might say even socialist. Also, I’m aware of no religiously-aimed legislation enacted anywhere outside the south until the fundamentalists began trying to regulate everyone else.
    You write well, but I’d hope for more documentationas well as some description of your training/reading whatever that might give your thoughts some credibility. It’s hard to argue with opinion that’s devoid of concrete examples, and not many on the left will read beyond your headlines unless there’s something like that in here somewhere.
    Otherise, thanks for your efforts.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ragamuffinlife Eric Allan Morgan

    Sorry about the double post. I tried to delete one of them but i’m not familiar with how disqus works. Peace and God Bless.

  • Bill Weston

    Sitting on a fence is very uncomfortable. It’s like the guy driving down a road with one arm around his girlfreind. He’s doing half of two jobs and neither one very well.

  • http://warriormen.com/ Glen Evans

    Why are American Christians so perplexed that Christ’s teachings are rejected and a Biblical view of the world is scorned? Christ told us this would be the case and that adopting his non-conformist message of truth and love could get you not politically marginalized but killed. Expect those who oppose Christ to oppose you and don’t be surprised when they try to seize power and force you to live to their low standards. The big picture isn’t blue and red, Democrat or Republican…get a grip.

  • ed

    Fact is liberals are mentally deranged predators who infiltrate normal institutions for the purpose of instilling their own psychotic world view on decent citizens.

    • molly

      Wow, you sound like a real loving, caring, compassionate, open minded individual.

      • BohdanUke1

        Molly, find yourself a trolley and get a life.

        • molly

          Oh, come on now…Is that any way for a “Christian Conservative” to behave? What would Jesus say?

          • BohdanUke1

            Molly, you’re an ACE. Good for you!

  • jerry

    Christ said your either with me or against me Matt.12:30 Since Christ is against homosexuality and abortion and the left condones both then I can’t see how you can be a democrat and a Christian. Maybe someone can explain it to me.

    • molly

      Jesus said nothing about homosexuality or abortion (FYI–abortion was very prevalent in ancient Rome, as was homosexuality)–So Jesus was well aware of their existence–Yet made NO REFERENCE to either. Please stop making God/Jesus in YOUR image. Read your saviors words before you misquote him.

  • Xtian

    Sad face: “persecuted” fundie Christians because they can’t raise up a theocracy. Paul would like a word with you…

  • ajm5007

    The
    author is right: one cannot be faithful to Christian scripture and also
    a liberal. Of course, one cannot be faithful to Christian scripture and
    also a conservative either. In fact, being a conservative strays even
    FARTHER from the scriptures. But he’s right that if you define
    “Christian” as one who strictly adheres to all Christian scripture, one
    cannot be that and a liberal. Frankly, one cannot be that and
    participate in American politics at all. One must reject both the Democratic and Republican Parties’ platforms on NUMEROUS issues if one is to strictly adhere to Christian scripture. In
    order to be a Christian as the author defines it, one must reject most
    of the fundamental principles of BOTH major political parties, AND of
    the Tea Party, AND really of America in general. Hell, one must reject parts of the U.S. Constitution in order to be a Christian in the author’s sense. One cannot be a
    Christian, in the author’s sense, while simultaneously embracing
    American political values AT ALL. It simply cannot be done. AMERICA is
    inconsistent with the author’s notion of Christianity.

  • Alex R

    Either this author is writing things he knows to be untrue, in order to attract a following, or he’s actually a crazy person. In what America are Christians persecuted? Oh, you can’t put the Ten Commandments in a public building? Why that’s practically the same thing as being rounded up on trains and poisoned in a death camp! Please, stop it with the “Christians are persecuted” crap. Here’s a tip: Not getting your way on everything, all the time, is not tantamount to being persecuted. The fact that people disagree with your beliefs is not tantamount to being persecuted. Living in a country with a very sensible policy of not mingling a specific religion with a government that has to govern a nation of diverse beliefs is NOT tantamount to persecution.

    If you’re a Christian and you’re feeling persecuted, there’s a good chance you feel that way because YOU are being a dick about your beliefs by trying to force them on others.

  • Peter Tefft

    If God had meant to create us sinless then we wouldn’t need salvation. Perfect people do not exist on this planet therefore all of us sinned and come short of the glory of God. I am a conservative Christian who thankfully understands God’s grace and forgiveness for anything other than unbelief. So, can a liberal be a christian, of course. Is the liberal who supports gay rights and abortion out of God’s favor and fellowship, you certainly can believe so. God has elected a people, sinful people of all kinds chosen to be forgiven by blood, the blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ including liberals. Some of us are closer to God than others but rest assured that liberals as well as conservatives who truly believe but don’t walk in God’s ways will be saved and when it comes time to face a Holy God those of us who have sinned, repented and walk no more in those sins will be rewarded with eternal life. We might have wasted alot of our lives searching after things that we believe are important but in the end the truth of God will prevail in the liberals heart as well as the conservative. In these days we live in, no one believes in a right and wrong. The liberal agenda often times goes against God’s commandments especially when it involves the murder of innocent children.

  • Tarquin

    I love America, there cant possibly be middle ground, or a voice saying that perhaps both sides have good points that should be considered and discussed in an open and honest way, that is uplifting to all and not bringing down everyone.

    People on both sides have to stop being so extremist about everything, stop the us and them mentality, if you can just do that then perhaps you can move forward doing GOOD things that both sides agree are good and right things to be doing! work together in the things you agree on, and have healthy and respectful debates about things you don’t!

    Also you need to separate extreme religious ideology and ignorance from your political system, its part of the reason why american democracy is becoming so poisoned, I would hate to see your once great nation, who have been champions of freedom and equality for all people slide slowly into the tyranny that your great first leaders want to quash!

  • The Rustled Jimmy

    Trolling: you’re doing it.

  • http://thinktheology.org/ Able Baker

    “Thus, today the Christian is between a rock and a hard place: He can either be a Christian or a liberal—but he cannot be both.”

    Doug… I thought you might enjoy and profit from this little bit
    from C.S. Lewis’ book Mere Christianity (please pardon it’s length).

    “The word
    gentleman originally meant something recognizable; one who had

    a coat of
    arms and some
    landed property. When you called
    someone “a

    gentleman” you were not paying him a compliment, but
    merely stating a fact.

    If you said he was not “a gentleman” you were
    not insulting him, but giving

    information. There was no contradiction in saying that
    John was a liar and a

    gentleman; any more than there now is in saying that James is a fool and an

    M.A. But then
    there came people
    who said-so rightly,
    charitably,

    spiritually,
    sensitively, so anything
    but usefully-”Ah, but surely the

    important thing about a gentleman is not the coat of arms and the land, but

    the behaviour?
    Surely he is the true gentleman
    who behaves as a gentleman

    should? Surely
    in that sense Edward is far
    more truly a gentleman than

    John?”

    They meant well. To be honorable and courteous and brave
    is of course

    a far better thing
    than to have a coat
    of arms. But it is not the same

    thing. Worse
    still, it is not a thing everyone will
    agree about. To call a

    man “a gentleman” in this new, refined sense,
    becomes, in fact, not a way of

    giving information about him, but a way of praising him:
    to deny that he is

    “a gentleman” becomes simply a way of insulting him. When a word ceases to

    be a term of
    description and becomes merely a term of
    praise, it no longer

    tells you facts about the object: it only tells you about the
    speaker’s

    attitude to that object.
    (A “nice” meal
    only means a meal
    the speaker

    likes.)

    A gentleman, once it has been spiritualised and refined out of its old

    coarse,
    objective sense, means hardly more than a man whom
    the speaker

    likes. As a result, gentleman is now a useless word. We
    had lots of terms of

    approval
    already, so it was not needed for
    that use; on the other hand if

    anyone (say,
    in a historical work) wants to
    use it in its old sense, he

    cannot do so without explanations. It has been spoiled
    for that purpose.

    Now if once we allow people to start spiritualising and refining,
    or as

    they might say “deepening,” the
    sense of the word Christian, it
    too will

    speedily become a
    useless word. In the first place, Christians themselves

    will never be able
    to apply it to anyone. It is not
    for us to say who, in

    the deepest sense, is or is not close to the spirit of
    Christ. We do not see

    into men’s hearts. We cannot judge, and are indeed
    forbidden to judge.”

  • Nicholas Stalnaker

    Conservatives DEFINITELY can’t be Christians, rather there is another word for right wingers who claim to be Christians, that word is Christploiters. Conservative Christian is the biggest oxymoron in the history of humanity. Conservative Satanist on the other hand…

  • Neil

    Doug, it’s all very well to wish the government would “protect and embrace” your religion over others and non-belief, but this is the very incursion into private life of citizens by Government that in any other milieu you seem to object to.

    The more the sacred realm of Christianity enters into the profane business of government, the more it becomes a legitimate subject for political debate and discussion. Instead of people merely challenging Christianity on religious or philosophical grounds, you drag your faith into party political disputes about taxation, representation and the exercise of power.

    Secular government benefits religion. A religion that needs government is not in a healthy state. Look at Anglicanism in the UK. It is a husk of a church, devoid of any real spiritual value or meaning for most people in that country.

  • Northpaw

    Doug Giles, you write:

    “The Democratic Party’s liberalism has degenerated over the
    last 40-50 years in regard to its view of Christianity and Christian rights.
    This party, which formerly embraced and protected our nation’s great Christian
    heritage and teachings no longer does so. Thus, today the Christian is between
    a rock and a hard place: He can either be a Christian or a liberal—but he
    cannot be both.”

    To those who cling to their belief that Øbama is himself a Christian
    so you can’t be right, I say au contraire; that part of his disguise will go
    the way of his opposition to Gay Marriage amidst a show of conscience
    struggling evolving horse hockey he uses for all his bad intentioned schemes.

  • Craig

    Wow and he didn’t even use one verse out of the bible! But he nentioned Rush Limbaugh and called liberals all of the names other fascists use so he must be right.

  • Light_V_Dark

    Evil people are literally incapable of condemning EVIL. Murder is SOP for Communists and Jihadists. Evil people HATE INNOCENCE AND THE FACT, THAT SOMEBODY IN THE WORLD IS H-A-P-P-Y.

    No such thing as a happy Liberal, or Muslim. Sorry.

    Jews, Hindus, Christians, Buddhists, Sikhs, Falun Gong, et al, are all, People Of The Light.

    Filthy, Pagan Communists + Jihadists, MURDER US. THUS, YOU ARE FROM THE DARK SIDE.

    Your own bad karma is going to be your end. And, BECAUSE YOU HATE US SO BAD, YOU ARE GOING TO SPEND ETERNITY IN HELL. GFY¡!

    Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
    Psalm 34:21
    Evil kills the wicked and those who hate the righteous will come to an end.
    In other words—

    Clarke’s Commentary on the Bible

    Evil shall slay the wicked – The very thing in which they delight shall become their bane and their ruin.

    They that hate the righteous – All persecutors of God’s people shall be followed by the chilling blast of God’s displeasure in this world; and if they repent not, shall perish everlastingly._______

  • Light_V_Dark

    Human garbage like Garofolo, lets effluence fall out of her demonic vent, and not a peep from ANYBODY.

    She is a SERPENT WITH LEGS¡! She PLAYS FBI AGENTS. WHY NOT KGB¿?

    Hollywood Investigator;

    In a profile entitled “Don’t Tread On Janeane,” written by Trish Deitch Rohrer, Garofalo fumes:
    “Our country is founded on a sham: our forefathers were slave-owning rich white guys who wanted it their way. So when I see the American flag, I go, ‘Oh my God, you’re “insulting” me.’ That you can have a gay parade on Christopher Street in New York, with naked men and women on a float cheering, ‘We’re here, we’re queer!’ — that’s what makes my heart swell. Not the “flag”, but a gay naked man or woman “burning” the flag. I get choked up with pride.”

    • Light_V_Dark

      AND, most of you Faux-Christian-LITE-POSSUMS, would love to behead me, for BEING SO JUDGEMENTAL. HOW MANY FINGERS, JACK LEGGED BOOT LICKERS¿?

  • Wisesage

    Consider this…Jesus truly was about the poor, giving away our riches and following Him. Much of His teachings did lean classically liberal, and I won’t be the first to criticize that as fact.

    However, this is where we part ways. The classical liberal is NOT today’s progressive liberal. Abortion, homosexuality, excessive government taxation and control – these were NOT things that Christ would have supported! These are Marxist qualities, and Marx was VERY critical of religion. Progressive liberalism features this secular thinking, while proponents call it ‘Christian’ because they say it is what Jesus would have taught.

    Make the distinction and make it clear: Jesus WAS a classical liberal! This from a conservative, no less! Jesus was NOT a progressive liberal! And THIS is where the confusion lies.

    Jesus would NOT support the behaviors of today’s progressive liberal as Christian!

  • Esteban Berberian

    All my cars have a bumper sticker which I had made (in Chicago of all places…they must have loved making it…):
    MAKE UP YOUR MIND!
    CHRISTIAN OR DEMOCRAT?
    You say you’re both? You better check again! (Matthew 7:21)
    Christians love it. Democrats who think they’re Christians get upset but can’t say anything without exposing their farce. Non-Christians don’t care (the core of the democratic party: atheists, agnostics, GLTG, etc.)

  • Light_V_Dark

    GIRLY MEN···REPEAT AFTER ME···YES DEAR···NO DEAR···HOW HIGH¿?—RIGHT HERE ON THE FLOOR¿?$$$₩₩₩¢¢¢§§§$$$₩₩₩¢¢¢§§§PEACE_@_ANY_PRICE¡! €=·Q GIMME A BUTT¡!

    “Women’s liberation, if not the most extreme then certainly the most influential neo-Marxist movement in America, has done to the American home what communism did to the Russian economy, and most of the ruin is irreversible,” writes Ruth Wisse of Harvard.  “By defining relations between men and women in terms of power and competition instead of reciprocity and cooperation, the movement tore apart the most basic and fragile contract in human society, the unit from which all other social institutions draw their strength.”[3]

    http://www.profam.org/pub/fia/fia.2202.htm

  • David Weber

    “How a true believer in the Christ defined by Scripture can buy into what Jesus, the prophets and apostles said and also give credence to what these secular goons say is beyond me.”

    Yes, that it is beyond you is indeed quite obvious.

  • Light_V_Dark

    Faux_Christian_POSSUMS hate this worse than the Freakin PAGANS DO.
    Matthew 10;
    {Jesus said}, 21 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22 You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved

    MONEY VERSE!!!

    34 “ DO NOT SUPPOSE THAT I HAVE COME TO BRING PEACE TO THE EARTH. I DID NOT COME TO BRING PEACE, BUT A SWORD(emphasis added). 35 For I have come to turn“ ‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law —36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[c]

  • Vincent T. Marshall Sr

    The word Liberal is deceiving. They are “Unrepentantant Sinners or Lost Souls on the Way to Hell”.

  • Light_V_Dark

    You know that Bible ownership is a DEATH SENTENCE, in CHINEY AND YEMEN, Don’t you¿? Gettin that way in AmeriKa, too.

    Revelation 21;
     7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my sons and daughters. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars —they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

    Note; I’m probably taking this out of context, no¿?

  • pf_flyer

    Dude, if there is a Hell it’s made for–and by–people like you.

  • mda

    Well-rounded sentences, articulate, and thoughtful. But misguided and totally tunnel-visioned. The nuances of Christianity are as diverse as the individual people on the planet, and anyone on the planet who decides to state how we are to be judged in the end is only speaking his/her mind and it should be treated as such. And this article is a soapbox rant, and should be treated as such. That is all.

  • Mona

    I have said all along that a Christian would not vote for Obama. Liberals think it is okay to kill a baby and support immoral behavior. No Christian would ever support this.

  • Guest

    Spiritual Health & Emotional Health are the SAME THING.

    Proud-A-&-Gay-Theists, are Psychopathic, Suicidal, MURDEROUS, NIHILISTIC, POLYPHOBIC, SCHIZOPHRENIC, BIPOLAR, ENVIOUS, ADDICTED, HYPERSEXUAL, OBSESSED, NARCISSTIC, PAGAN DRAMA QUEENS. Muslims are WORSE THAN YOU¡!

    You INVENTED HATE CRIMES—AND YOU INFLICT THEM UPON YOURSELVES.

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    Charlie Rogers(F), Nebraska Lesbian And Alleged Anti-Gay ..Hate Crime.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/
    …Jul 27, 2012 – Nebraska Lesbian Mutilated in Anti-Gay Hate Crime …..Which seems to be the presumption that most of the victim … This is usually indicative of self inflicted wounds.

    Note; Al Sharptoon and Curtis Slimewah are TWO, HEAVYWEIGHT LEFTIST HYSTERICS.

    I KNOW YOU CANNOT DO THIS, BUT, WOULD YOU TRY, FOR AT LEAST 3 MINUTES, TO–S-T-£-U¿?!¡ BAD GHOULS··STAY, STAY¡!

  • http://www.facebook.com/josh.oldham.524 Josh Oldham

    1. Exactly which Judeo-Christian values formed the foundation of our nation? As far as the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution are concerned, the values we claim to treasure come from the Enlightenment. Freedom, Equality, and Intelligence are values espoused by the Enlightenment thinkers, not Judeo-Christianity. As for government endorsement of a particular religion, isn’t that running against the First Amendment? “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or preventing the free exercise thereof…” Basically, you have every right to practice your religion (so long as it does not infringe upon the rights of others) but, the government has no right to endorse one religion over the other.

    2. I enjoyed the “vapid secularism” jab. However, the fact remains that the “education” championed by most Young Earth Creationists is incredibly shallow. Intelligent design or complete Creationism does not encourage critical thinking skills, nor do faith-based social sciences do anything to create greater understanding of history or other cultures. The comment that Christians and Christianity are vilified by instructors at primary and secondary schools and universities is misleading. If a Christian is willing to listen to reason and respond to criticism in a constructive way (and criticize constructively) then professors usually have no problem with the student. If the student wishes to dogmatically assert his or her position without any heed to logic, then of course professors are going to be a little ticked off.

    3. This is ridiculous. This entire third argument is ridiculous. I don’t usually start out like this, but the third point of the argument is based on something other than reality. This is the United States of America. There are currently seven states which have laws prohibiting people who do not believe in a supreme being (or the Christian god outright) from holding public office. Of course, these laws are null and void, but the fact that these states (TX, AR, MS, TN, SC, PA, MD) have not repealed these laws or amended their constitution speaks volumes about how people in this country perceive equality. Added to the fact that no politician can be elected, it seems, without stating a belief in a higher power, I cannot see how Christians are being persecuted in the political arena. (Please don’t confuse persecution with not getting everything that you demand.)

    4. This is a bit vague, though from what has been observed in the past decade, churches seem to want in on the political process. Telling your flock that voting for a certain candidate is voting in the anti-christ comes off a tad overbearing. True, there are people out there who want to remove the tax-exempt status of churches, but this is mostly a reaction to churches meddling in government politics. Let the flock make their own decisions without threats of hellfire and eternal punishment to coerce their votes. I’d be happy to address any other issues in this vein, but as I said, this is a bit vague.

    5. The fifth and final point is a bit of a jump. Since there are no particulars mentioned with regards to what sunk ancient civilizations, I’ll just name off a few: over-expansion, high slave-to-free ratio, outdated medical and engineering technology, being conquered by stronger civilizations, refusing to progress with the rest of the world in terms of economics and science…although I don’t see what’s so hedonistic about these things (except for the slavery). Culture is decided by the populace. If you wish for a more enlightened culture, begin a movement which values rational debate over dogmatic drivel, and critical thinking over blind obedience. Recognize that every human is equal to one another. Learn to abhor violence and use it only when it is truly needed, instead of putting up your fists or drawing a weapon at the slightest provocation. Instead of demonizing sex and sexuality, teach about both openly, providing information and create a trend towards being respectful towards oneself and towards others. Greater religious influence will not help curb coarseness. In fact, given that the normal monotheistic worldview has humans as sinful, base collections of dirt or blood, the lack of respect for our species might even exacerbate the coarseness.

    All in all, this article is written to get the blood pumping in the hearts of those who fear that they will not be able to enjoy the luxuries of being a state-sponsored religion. At a closer look, the flaws in these arguments are readily apparent. The fact remains that even if the so-called “liberal agenda” is fully realized, Christians and every other type of religious persons will be able to worship when they want and how they want (provided this worship doesn’t infringe upon the rights of others). The only difference is that when a law is being passed, the argument of “God said so,” will no longer be valid and the law in question will be examined through reasoned discourse.

    All in all, you will always be free to indulge in your religious practices. Just don’t expect for the government to join you or demand that your fellow citizens follow your religious laws.

  • Light_V_Dark

    Christian-LITES, AKA PAGANS;

    1 Peter 4,

    3 You have spent enough time in the past doing what the heathen like to do. Your lives were spent in indecency, lust, drunkenness, orgies, drinking parties, and the disgusting worship of idols. 4 And now the heathen are surprised when you do not join them in the same wild and reckless living, and so they insult you.
    5 But they will have to give an account of themselves to God.

  • Baby_Raptor

    This is…Wow. Just wow.

    1) The 10 Commandments were never the foundation for the laws of this land; nor was the bible. The Constitution itself says that, as do a myriad of other documents written by the Founders. Yes, they were religious. Yes, some of them were Christians. Nopony is denying those facts. But the Constitution was NOT written to found a Christian nation. It was written to found a nation where *every* religion had the same freedoms. That’s why it says “freedom of religion” and not “Freedom of Christianity.” In fact, the only place in the entire Constitution where the word “Christianity” is found is where the document as “As the United States is not a Christian nation…” Further, the 10 Commandments was not the first set of rules that was ever founded. There were several sets of very similar rules in existence before Moses ever picked up a chisel.

    2) Our government is a secular government. We’re a secular nation. Our schools *should* be secular. And yes. All beliefs are protected here. That’s just as much for Christianity’s good as it is everyone elses’. It protects you guys from the same persecutions it attempts to protect everyone else from. You would yell and scream if someone were trying to push Islam or Buddhism on your children, so why is Christianity okay? Because you happen to believe that it’s right? Further, you have no proof that schools are doing anything to repress Christianity, unless you’re going to point at mandated prayer being removed. Christian kids can still get together and pray whenever they want; there’s even a national holiday for it. No group or club has ever been denied simply because they were Christian, which is more than a lot of other groups can claim. Nobody wants to repress religion in schools. They just don’t want a particular religion force on everyone. We want our rights to religious freedom respected just like we respect yours.

    3) No public official has ever been pressed to hide their religious affiliation, nor has anypony ever called for that. Every single president we’ve had thus far has been a Christian, as is 99% of the sitting Congress. And nopony has ever tried to repress that. Further, according to the Constitution, religion is not sufficient basis for a law in this country. It’s also illegal for the government to support any one religion; that violates the First Amendment. And, again. If it was any religion but your chosen one, you would be saying the same thing I am now. Why the hypocrisy?

    4) People have been screaming that the government is going to harm churches for years; especially in light of marriage equality. Guess what? There’s exactly zero proof of it happening yet. In fact, the IRS is terrified to persecute actual violations of the law simply because of propaganda like this article. Religion has no place in the law. Not everyone follows the same religion, and forcing someone to act on your beliefs instead of theirs is wrong. Broken record here, if it were another religion, you would be screaming too.

    5) I’m afraid I can’t really sympathize with you here. Your complaint seems to be that the country will continue to allow things you don’t approve of. That freedom you keep howling about? Everybody has that, not just Christians. If you don’t like it, don’t watch it. Don’t let your kids watch it. But you have no right to dictate to others what they can and cannot see, believe or do. And the fact that you would try to do so anyway shows just how little respect for the freedoms you’re screaming so loudly about.

    Why do only your freedoms matter to you? And do you really not understand that, once they’re done limiting what the rest of us can and can’t do, they’re going to start in on your rights?

    Lastly, I find it laughable that you, a small, ignorant, sinful man thinks that he can decide who is and isn’t a follower of God. Treating everyone who doesn’t toe your line with complete and utter disdain may make your ego swell, but it’s not what your god taught. Nowhere in the bible did Jesus say “If you aren’t a Republican, you’re not my child.” Jesus taught love. I don’t know what you think you’re doing, but it’s not love.

  • Buckeyes

    Too bad, Libs! You cannot handle the truth as is evidence to your comments. What Giles said is pretty much correct as I have personally experienced it. You people,that continue to demonize Fox News cannot handle a Fair and Balanced approach to News. However, you will watch the other NEws outlets and agree with their one sided approach to news and their Obama agenda and listen to all their hate speech and lies, e.g., MSNBC, CNN ( Communist News Network.) you need to start thinking for yourselves.

    • molly

      96% of US media is owned by 6 corporations. FOX is owned exclusivly by NewsCorp (I don’t expect Rupert Murdoch,or any 1 guy to be “fair and balenced”) US media’s (CNN, FOX, MSNBC) purpose is to keep us in the dark and to continue to pit right against left, to distract us from any real issues. If you are watching TV in the US, You are NOT getting the real “news”—I don’t care what station it is.

  • squeak7

    In my article just posted, I meant to say “those that do not agree with you” which you Libs are famous for, if we do not agree, then we are hate mongers, homophobes, extremist and any other name you can come up with at the moment.

  • squeak7

    You really have learned more in three minutes that you can have learned in a lifetime watching the Obama Liberal News networks. Learn to start thinking for your self and doing research and getting real facts, rather than being indoctrinated by MSNBc, CNN, NBC and other “in the tank Obama networks”. However, it is interesting too see how uninformed a person is by reading your comments, but for now we have Freedom of Speech, something we will incrementally lose if Obama is reelected. Think about it!

  • scliff

    I agree with James. This op-ed starts with the assumption that it is right and thus never even makes an attempt at proving its point. Giles, as well as many of the comments here, seems to ignore the fact that there are many Christians who feel the exact opposite. From the Christian-left point of you, it appears that many on the right have lost sight of Jesus. We are praying for them as i expect they are praying for us.

    Christian partisans on either side can easily fall into the trap of limiting Jesus. We all need to be reminded frequently that Jesus is far bigger than that. If we are comfortable and satisfied with what he is asking from us, then we are probably not listening hard enough.

  • midwaygrad

    More specifically, as a Catholic, I cannot vote for a democrat anymore. For the secular progressive agenda to work, they must rid this country of its Judeo-Christian principles. This country, in its greatness, fought against those who would govern as the progressives want to govern.

  • Anyms

    Lol, you’re so full of shit, but interesting insight. I am a liberal Christian. The principle of liberal Christians’ beliefs is to worship God, not the Bible. The Bible is a guide, not a god. We use the Bible to get to know God and then it’s between us and Him further on. You cannot say I am not a Christian, only I can decide that, and you cannot say I am not liberal, only I can decide that. So yeah, you’re wrong, but nobody is always right.

    • LibertysSon

      Anyms, If you are “Born Again” then you are a Christian. Just believing that Jesus is the Son of God won’t do. Satan himself knows that Jesus is the Son of God and still he is condemned.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jillharp59 Jill Harp

    Typically, you didn’t bother to cite scriptures or mention any real reference to the words of Christ in your oppressive, bigoted, slam of the liberal Christian. Therefore, your article comes off as just another opportunity for right wing extremists to slam liberals with nothing to back it up. Good job of wasting a couple minutes of my life that I’ll never get back.

  • YellowJacket2

    “The heart of the wise inclines
    to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.” Ecclesiastes 10:2
    (NIV)

    • molly

      Proverbs 4:27 “Do not swerve to the right or the left; keep your foot from evil” (NIV)

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JZPBMQC5353OE4UEG4MFGAA45A B

    I agree you can not be a Christian and a Liberal. I do not agree with everything said by the author, but there is a lot of truth to much of it. Those of us who hear and understand the truth of God’s words need to vote for an American as President. Otherwise attacks will continue on the church until it will be a crime to say the name of Jesus.

  • tevans9129

    The number 1 “christian” liberal.

    “I knew they had both
    lost their law license, but I didn’t know why until I read this.

    This is legit. Check
    it out for yourself at https://www.iardc.org/Stands for Illinois
    Attorney Registration And Disciplinary Committee. It’s the official arm of
    lawyer discipline in Illinois ; and they are very strict and mean as hell. (Talk
    about irony.) Even I, at the advanced age of almost 65, maintain (at the cost of
    approximately $600/year) my law license that I worked so hard and long to earn.

    Big surprise.

    Former Constitutional
    Law Lecturer and U.S. President Makes Up Constitutional Quotes During State Of
    The Union (SOTU) Address.

    Consider this:

    1. President Barack
    Obama, former editor of the Harvard Law Review, is no longer a “lawyer”. He
    surrendered his license back in 2008 in order to escape charges he lied on his
    bar application. A “Voluntary Surrender” is not something where you decide
    “Gee, a license is not really something I need anymore, is it?” and forget to
    renew your license. No, a “Voluntary Surrender” is something you do when you’ve
    been accused of something, and you ‘voluntarily surrender” your license five
    seconds before the state suspends you.

    2 Michelle Obama
    “voluntarily surrendered” her law license in 1993. after a Federal Judge gave
    her the choice between surrendering her license or standing trial for Insurance
    fraud

    3. So, we have the
    first black President and First Lady – who don’t actually have licenses to
    practice law. Facts.

    Source: http://jdlong.wordpress.com/2009/05/15/pres-barack-obama-editor-of-the-Harvard-law-review-has-no-law-license

    4. A senior lecturer
    is one thing, a fully ranked law professor is another. Barack Obama was NOT a
    Constitutional Law Professor at the University of Chicago.

    5. The University of
    Chicago released a statement in March 2008 saying Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.)
    “served as a professor” in the law school-but that is a title Obama, who taught
    courses there part-time, never held, a spokesman for the school confirmed in
    2008.

    6. “He did not hold
    the title of Professor of Law,” said Marsha Ferziger Nagorsky, an Assistant Dean
    for Communications and Lecturer in Law at the University of Chicago School of
    Law.

    Source: http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/03/sweet_obama_did_hold_the_title.html;

    7. The former
    Constitutional Senior Lecturer (Obama) cited the U.S. Constitution the other
    night during his State of the Union Address. Unfortunately, the quote he cited
    was from the Declaration of Independence … not the Constitution.

    8. The B-Cast posted
    the video: http://www.breitbart.tv/did-obama-confuse-the-constitution-with-the-declaration-of-independence/

    9. Free Republic: In
    the State of the Union Address, President Obama said: “We find unity in our
    incredible diversity, drawing on the promise enshrined in our Constitution: the
    notion that we are all created equal.

    10. Um, wrong citing,
    wrong founding document there Champ, I mean Mr. President. By the way, the
    promises are not a notion, our founders named them unalienable rights. The
    document is our Declaration of Independence and it reads:

    We hold these truths
    to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by
    their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life,
    Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    11. And this is the
    same guy who lectured the Supreme Court moments later in the same speech?

    When you are a phony
    it’s hard to keep facts straight”

  • Thinks4himself

    I am very sorry you feel this way, Doug. It seems that you are not talking to the same liberal Christians that I know. Worse, you seem to think that they don’t exist, and that they can’t exist. There are several religious faiths that believe Christ was a Liberal and they back it up with logical arguments. In contrast you just seem to spew venom. The 10 commandments are actually Jewish. Jesus said that he had come to replace all the old laws with just two: Love God, and Love your Neighbor, and that on these two hang all the law and the prophets. So, I wish you peace, and quiet.

  • jhorenka

    The Founders believed that objective descended from a transcendent law giver (Here’s a good start on that notion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rmg720wO6tY) and that they descend from God, to the people, to the government.

    Absent objective laws then they can only descend from the government to the people.

    The question then begs, do we want Nancy Pelosi, harry Reid, GW, Obama, the House or Senate at large, or anyone else in government deciding for us what is right and what is wrong?

    Doug in his column here is exactly right on…

    • http://www.nealalanspurlock.com/ Neal Alan Spurlock

      That is, among other things, one of the primary functions of the state: to create and enforce laws that come about through (ostensibly) rational discussion. If you don’t want the government deciding “for us” what is right and wrong, then what it really comes down to is that you want anarchy. This, in itself, is not problematic; there are many good arguments and models for anarchy. The problem is, however, that an anarchy depends on having a population that is not trying to constantly screw each other over…which means it’s a political model made for someone other than humans, because we can’t trust our own species that far.

      If supernaturalism and theism are true, we could depend upon ministering angels to enforce the rules, and depend on God (or its emissary) to answer any questions on ethics. Since there are plenty of people claiming to be its emissary and many of them contradict each other, it is impossible to know who to believe, if anyone, and notably neither God, nor ministering angels, have decided to put in an appearance to answer questions.

      If the Bible is what many people claim it is, a message from God, we could also trust it to never steer us wrong…of course, the problem is again that 50 self-proclaimed “Bible-believing Christians” will end up giving 50 different answers when asked the same question. Anyone who knows how logic works can attest that once you have a contradiction in your premises, you can deduce literally any conclusion you want, and the Bible is such a large and variable set of propositions that it possesses many such contradictions…which is why it can produce a Phelps family on the one hand and a St. Francis on the other. Ones interpretation of the Bible ends up being more about ones own character than anything else: those with evil in their hearts read the Bible and think God has given them license to be cruel, callous, and self-involved, while those with good within their hearts see a command to be good, compassionate, loving, and non-judgmental. Who is right? Neither and both, because the text supports both positions, and many others that should be mutually exclusive, besides…leading one to believe that the Bible alone can’t answer these questions.

      So since it is necessary that SOMEONE decide what is right and wrong, and that such ethical constructions provide the basis of the law, and it is the government’s job to create laws, who else besides the government should be “deciding for us” what is right and wrong? That’s part of why the government exists. You may disagree with particular people who have gotten into office, but we live in a representative democratic republic and your side had its chance, and lost. More people wanted Obama, Pelosi, et al than wanted their competitors, and that’s the way a democratic system works. I know, I know, a lot of people want to de-legitimize the current president using whatever outlandish argument occurs to them, but that’s no different than the fact that many of us believe that the 2000 election was illegally handed to Bush…just because you don’t agree with him doesn’t mean he’s not the president. No amount of playing pretend games and raising objections to his office will change anything…but it sure makes the TeaGOP look like a bunch of hypocrites.

      If you’re just a fair-weather patriot who only supports the ideals and state of America so long as your side wins the elections, then I don’t know what to tell you, except perhaps to go back to junior high and actually pay attention in social studies class. There is a reason you can’t always get your way…it’s called other people. It is nothing but self-involved narcissism to believe that your personal opinions should dictate the way of life for others.

  • tevans9129

    Liberals really enjoy harping about the “rich”
    conservatives/Republicans/business people and make all kinds of unsubstantiated/false
    statements trying to prove their point. Well, here are some statistics for them.

    77.4% of businesses of 50 or more employees are
    owned/managed by non Bible believing liberals.

    Of the approximately 19 states with Democratic governors, 83% of the people on government handouts are
    from those states.

    There are more multimillionaire Democrats in congress than
    there are Republicans/Independents combined.

    Less than 20% of the American people agree with the
    liberals’ philosophy.

    Liberals want to completely re-write the Constitution of the
    United States
    and Ginsberg agrees with them. It made this country the greatest in the world
    and the most sought destination for immigrating to and now the liberals want to
    destroy it because they have a better plan, one that only benefits the elitists.

    Conservatives as a whole, give 43% more to charities than
    liberals, and it would be even higher if not for the super rich like Soros and
    others, so who are the compassionate ones?

    Conservatives are more likely to help people by donating
    their time and resources to help others in natural emergencies, liberals fuss
    because the government is not doing enough. The government did not send a limousine
    to take me to a shelter so I just had to stay here and drown. That is the mentality
    of many liberals.

    “In 2010, influenced by the Tea Party and its focus on
    fiscal issues, 17 states elected Republican governors. And, according to an
    Examiner.com analysis, every one of those states saw a drop in their
    unemployment rates since January of 2011.

    Since January of 2011, here is how much the unemployment
    rate declined in each of the 17 states that elected Republican governors in
    2010, according to the Examiner:

    Kansas – 6.9% to 6.1% = a decline of 0.8
    [percentage points (11.6 percent)]

    Maine – 8.0% to 7.4% = a decline of 0.6
    [percentage points (7.5 percent)]

    Michigan – 10.9% to 8.5% = a decline of [2.4
    percentage points (22 percent)]

    New Mexico – 7.7% to 6.7% = a decline of
    [1.0 percentage points (13 percent)]

    Oklahoma – 6.2% to 4.8% = a decline of [1.4
    percentage points - (22.6 percent)]

    Pennsylvania – 8.0% to 7.4% = a decline of
    [.6 percentage points (7.5 percent)]

    Tennessee – 9.5% to 7.9% = a decline of [1.6
    percentage points (16.8 percent)]

    Wisconsin – 7.7% to 6.8% = a decline of [0.9
    percentage points (11.9 percent)]

    Wyoming
    - 6.3% to 5.2% = a decline of [1.1 percentage points (17.5 percent)]

    Alabama – 9.3% to 7.4% = a decline of [1.9
    percentage points (20.4 percent)]

    Georgia – 10.1%
    to 8.9% = a decline of [1.2 percentage points (11.9 percent)]

    South Carolina – 10.6% to 9.1% = a decline
    of [1.5 percentage points (14.2 percent)]

    South Dakota – 5.0% to 4.3% = a decline of
    [0.7 percentage points (14 percent)]

    Florida – 10.9% to 8.6% = a decline of [2.3
    percentage points (21 percent)]

    Nevada – 13.8% to 11.6% = a decline of [2.2
    percentage points (15.9 percent)]

    Iowa – 6.1% to 5.1% = a decline of [1.0
    percentage points (16.4 percent)]

    Ohio – 9.0% to 7.3% = a decline of [1.7
    percentage points (18.9 percent)]

    This was not the case for states that elected Democrats in
    2010. For instance, the unemployment rate in New York actually went up. On average,
    states that elected Republican governors in 2010 saw their unemployment rates
    decrease at a faster clip than states that elected Democrats and the
    unemployment rate at the national level did.

    This is yet another example of how the so-called “blue
    state” model is not working.

    Liberals are all for helping others less fortunate, IF, it
    is with other people’s money, not theirs.

  • Dean

    James is the ignorant one, which tells me he belongs to the ones who would eradicate all
    record of Jesus if he could. James If you really believe Giles is ignorant or untruthful, you’ve had your head in the sand. You don’t need and news from Fox or any other news media. What you need is salvation. Please read the gospel in the 3rd chapter of St. John
    or the King James version of the Holy Bible. You will be surprised at how much this Jesus loves you that you hate so much.

  • A REAL teacher

    I read the posting policy stated above – I think this article violates that policy.

    • tevans9129

      We all have our right of opinions, at least so far. One gets the impression that liberals would not allow anyone to write or say anything before clearing it through them, if they had their way. Freedom of speech, as long as you agree with us, that seems to be their mission statement.

  • http://www.facebook.com/daniel.christensen.18 Daniel Christensen

    Talk about throwing out chunks of the Bible. You are denying the Socialist society of the Jews as well as Jesus social views (healing,feeding,care of the widow and orphan) in the Christian Testament. Read your scriptures without the dogma, something I’m sure will be difficult for you.

    • LibertysSon

      These commands they refer to, to help the sick ,the widows and the poor,
      are directed at the individual. These gifts are to be given by a person
      individually through Christ’s Agape Love. This is not a command to form
      a government that forcibly takes money from one and gives it to
      another. This is a personal command.

  • tevans9129

    “You are denying the Socialist society of the Jews”

    Surely you jest, is there any group in the world more capitalistic than the Jews? Where in scripture did Jesus tell the Romans how much they were supposed to tax people, who got what and how much? Did the government provide Jesus with the funds for healing, feeding and caring for the widows and orphans? Or, were those instructions given to the people. Think how many people could be cared for if every person in this country helped others through churches where every penny went to the people that needs it rather than what is left over after the politicians get through doling it out to their benefactors. Now would than not be a novel idea?

  • Ed Perini

    The 92,000+ members of The Christian Left on Facebook would beg to differ.
    https://www.facebook.com/TheChristianLeft

  • Jess

    This is quite honestly the most offensive, noxious drivel I have read in a long time. I found this via a Facebook friend, and I regret every wasted second I spent reading it. Aside from the rampant logical fallacies, Giles expends no effort at all in backing up his assertions with even anecdotal evidence. Before the trolls attack, I AM a Christian. I have been one from a very young age. Yet I am what many in the US Bible Belt where I live would call ‘liberal,’ which is funny, because the political beliefs I hold are classic Republican beliefs, which once could be boiled down to a single core idea: Live and let live. Republicans used to fly that flag in earnest, but at some point have decided that the only life that matters is their own, and anyone interfering or disagreeing with them must clearly be a LIBRUL ENUMY. As a Christian and self-proclaimed political moderate, I am wholly disgusted and offended, and honestly embarrassed to be associated with someone like Giles based on my profession of the same faith. Yet it is clear to me that his Christianity must be very different from mine.

    • tevans9129

      You have made some interesting comments Jess. What I see is
      you doing the same thing that you accuse the author of doing. You attacked him
      and made a lot of dogmatic assertions but I have not seen one bit of data corroborating
      those assertions. Why do you not take each point that he makes and refute it,
      showing that he is mistaken. For instance, he says,

      “For the “Christian” to lean politically to the left
      means that he must blow off huge chunks of the Bible and replace Scripture with
      the make-believe notions of PC’s malleable “Christ.”

      So, why do you not point out specifically how that statement
      is incorrect? Is it your contention that the Bible does not teach against
      homosexuals, or, that the Bible condones the killing of innocent babies? Is it
      OK, according to the Bible to make false statements in order to further an
      agenda, or make false statements about a person? . Do that and provide
      scripture, in context, supporting your views and I will stand corrected.

      • Jess

        Actually, I made no attacks aside from pointing out his lack of support, lack of research, and his logical fallacies, the most glaring of which is what is called a Slippery Slope Fallacy as used in paragraph 2 of his point 1. This is when an author makes a true (or partly true) statement and then connects it to a dramatically worse situation, saying that supporting the true (or partly true) statement will ultimately lead to the dramatically worse (and usually unrealistic) situation. Additionally, you ask me to provide Scriptural support for arguments I did not make, yet you demand none from Giles, who did make arguments that warrant external support. I would point them all out, but he’s done so for me; see numbers 1-5 and all preceding and following text he wrote.

        I was not dogmatic, and should you think I was, you should perhaps look up the word. (That statement might have been dogmatic, if you’re using the definition that involves a person being arrogant in his/her argument. I was being arrogant there.)

        What I did, however, was use personal statements – anecdotes – to illustrate why I disagreed and was offended. I did not and will not address and argue with you about homosexuality or abortion, because those were not my points of contention with the article, and therefore have no bearing on why I was and still am angry. What you are doing by bringing those up is baiting, attempting to get me to leave the original thread of discussion and chase your rabbit trail, which I will not do.

        Additionally, I will not continue fighting a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

        • tevans9129

          Thank you, I believe that you have made your point, do not
          waste your time with an uneducated conservative that asks too many questions.

          This has been my experience in discussions with liberals, as
          a whole.

          First, they make very authoritative statements as fact when
          in reality, it is not fact, it is their opinion.

          Second, they try intimidation, especially if they feel they have superior education, intelligence and
          an advantage with articulating and spinning their views.

          Third, if the first two do not work, then it is attack the
          source and/or the documentation and it does not matter what the qualifications of
          the source, if they disagree with their views, they are idiots, racists, bigots,
          uneducated.

          Fourth, when all else fails, then it turns to verbal attacks
          on the individual that disagrees with them.

          Absolutely under no circumstances are they agreeable to a
          discussion if both parties are expected to answer all questions and provide
          some corroborating evidence for their answers. Any excuse is better than
          accepting such a challenge.

          Let me reemphasize, this has been my experience and I am not
          asserting that every liberal minded person does this.

        • LibertysSon

          Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not
          easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.1COR 4-7

  • Christian who can’t be labeled

    Have you actually read the four Gospels of the New Testament? Please read about your Savior and pay attention to what he said, did and taught before you tell his followers how to vote. Christianity and Faith have absolutely nothing to do with our government’s inability to manage fiscal policies – blame lies on both sides of the aisle for the mess our country is in. Christianity has everything to do about how you treat your fellow humans. call it liberal, conservative or whatever – this article said nothing about Christian Faith, but did spread a hateful message about people that don’t think like you do. hmmm

  • William

    Years ago William F. Buckly wrote (“The Jeweler’s Eye”) about the philosophical incongruity of claiming to be a liberal while simultaneously professing adherence to Christian beliefs. More specifically, he believed that for one to embrace conservatism, one needed to acknowledge a belief in God as the cornerstone of operation. To attempt to meld liberalism, whose origin is deeply ensconced in humanism, with Christianity was, in his opinion, a philosophical oxymoron. Thus, “I am a politically liberal Christian” was reflective of shallow intellect and/or very poor scholarship. It would be interesting to hear him reflect, if he were alive today, on the up-coming, pivotal presidential election. I believe he would surmise that what is at stake is the question of individual liberty vs. the all-invasive nanny state, or, to be more specific: who is going to rule – man or God?

  • tevans9129

    Some information that the pro Obama liberals should be very proud of.

    Quit trashing President Obama’s accomplishments.

    He has done more than any other President before him.

    He has an impressive list of accomplishments:

    First President to apply for college aid as a foreign student, then deny he was a foreigner.

    First President to have a social security number from a state he has never lived in.

    First President to preside over a cut to the credit-rating of the United States

    First President to violate the War Powers Act. .

    First President to be held in contempt of court for illegally obstructing oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico .

    First President to require all Americans to purchase a product from a third party.

    First President to spend a trillion dollars on ‘shovel-ready’ jobs when there was no such thing as ‘shovel-ready’ jobs.

    First President to abrogate bankruptcy law to turn over control of companies to his union supporters.

    First President to by-pass Congress and implement the Dream Act through executive fiat.

    First President to order a secret amnesty program that stopped the
    deportation of illegal immigrants across the U.S. , including those with
    criminal convictions.

    First President to demand a company hand-over $20 billion to one of his political appointees.

    First President to tell a CEO of a major corporation (Chrysler) to resign.

    First President to terminate America ‘s ability to put a man in space.

    First President to cancel the National Day of Prayer and to say that America is no longer a Christian nation.

    First President to have a law signed by an auto-pen without being present.

    First President to arbitrarily declare an existing law unconstitutional and refuse to enforce it.

    First President to threaten insurance companies if they publicly spoke-out on the reasons for their rate increases.

    First President to tell a major manufacturing company in which state it is allowed to locate a factory.

    First President to file lawsuits against the states he swore an oath to protect (AZ, WI, OH, IN).

    First President to withdraw an existing coal permit that had been properly issued years ago.

    First President to actively try to bankrupt an American industry (coal).

    First President to fire an inspector general of Ameri-Corps for catching one of his friends in a corruption case.

    First President to appoint 45 czars to replace elected officials in his office.

    First President to surround himself with radical left wing anarchists.

    First President to golf 73 separate times in his first two and a half years in office, 102 to date.

    First President to hide his medical, educational and travel records.
    First President to win a Nobel Peace Prize for doing NOTHING to earn it.

    First President to go on multiple global “apology tours” and concurrent “insult our friends” tours.

    First President to go on 17 lavish vacations, including date nights and
    Wednesday evening White House parties for his friends paid for by the
    taxpayer.

    First President to have 22 personal servants (taxpayer funded) for his wife.

    First President to keep a dog trainer on retainer for $102,000 a year at taxpayer expense.

    First President to repeat the Holy Quaran & tell us the early
    morning call of the Azan (Islamic call to worship) is the most beautiful
    sound on earth.

    First President to tell the military men and
    women that they should pay for their own private insurance because they
    “volunteered to go to war and knew the consequences”.

    Then he
    was the First President to tell the members of the military that THEY
    were UNPATRIOTIC for balking at the last suggestion.

    First President to side with a foreign nation over one of the American 50 states ( Mexico vs Arizona ).

    How is this hope and change working out for you?

  • mich
  • mich

    Liberals believe in same sex marriage, baby killing by abortion, gun control so you can’t defend yourself and more antibiblical things.

  • mich

    Being prolife and prochoice at the same time is like saying im for robbing banks sometimes.

  • mich

    ABORTION-God judges by his word.

    Mr 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

    **Proverbs 6:16-17 – states that there are seven things that are an abomination to the Lord; one of them is the shedding of innocent blood.

    Jeremiah 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

    Cursed be he who accepts a bribe to kill an innocent person! All the people shall say: Amen! (Deut 27:25)

    No less than I, they too were formed in the womb by the same God who formed us all within our mothers. (Job 31:15)

  • mich

    Baby killing is prodeath! God will never honor the shedding of innocent blood.

  • tevans9129

    This is an example of who the liberal Democrats choose to champion
    their views of tolerance, free speech and acceptance of others. None other than
    their senate leader.

    “…the latest symptom of a kind of political
    Tourette’s syndrome that has caused the senator [Reid] to call George W. Bush a
    “loser” and a “liar,” Alan Greenspan a “hack,” Clarence Thomas an
    “embarrassment,” the war in Iraq “lost,” Capitol tourists smelly, and his aides
    “fat.”

  • DarthTrader

    The Problem with this “article” is it does not own up to the fact that the same statment can be supported regarding “Republicans” though I am trying to change that fact

  • Scott Oakland

    Excellent and an article that needed to be written. Let’s face it, Christianity and social/political liberalism are like oil and water. Any Christian who is a member of this wicked party (guilty of a holocaust of 60 million plus infants) needs to repent immediately. It’s no different than being a Nazi.

  • http://twitter.com/jlc083 jlc083

    Giles is off by accepting that the Catholic take over of Christianity is in any way proper or founded in the Truth

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tim-Harris/1567904257 Tim Harris

    Liberals replace God with their “liberalness”. It becomes their religion. They have no root, no faith in anything so they throw themselves into their idealogy. This quickly becomes a poor substitute for the real thing and they become bitter, hateful, and against anyone who has the audacity to believe differently. How sad! How hopeless they must feel deep inside! Their mind is the devils playground and he has them totally deceived. Only God can deliver them from such a state, but first they must realize that they need help and sincerely ask Him. Until God moves on them they will remain a hopeless pawn of the devil.

  • fights

    There’s one problem with this article. Most blacks vote Democrat and believe in liberalism, yet many are Christian. I always wondered how they can justify that. I believe its been pounded in their head that “social justice” comes from the Dems.

  • Brian Wenner

    I was prepared to post a lengthy, well thought out rebuttal – but that would be a HUGE waste of my time. Instead, I will be brief.

    You can twist religious doctrine however you want to . Amazingly enough – the disciples had no concept of democrat vs republican, ‘Liberal’ (as you used it) or ‘Conservative’ (again, as you use it).
    This artilcle is nothing more than self-serving political drivel. Please don’t associate Christianity with it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/sebolen Sarah Elizabeth Bolen

    This is so wrong on so many levels. It scares me that people USE God as a tool! I am a Christian and I feel this article couldn’t be further than the truth. If you have the gift of discernment you would agree.

  • LibertysSon

    I sum it up with only one idea. How can you as a liberal support abortion and say you follow the Lord Jesus and the Scripture. God’s will is very obvious as I show in the following statements:
    In reference to pregnant women, the term “with child” occurs twenty-six times in the Bible. The term “fetus” (which is Latin for offspring) never occurs once.

    Luke 1:36 “And behold, Elizabeth, your relative, has also conceived a son in her old age, and this is the sixth month for her who was called barren.”

    Luke 1: 41 “When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the infant leaped in her womb.”

    In these two verses, God does not say that Elizabeth conceived a “non-viable thing” in her womb, or that a “fetus” leaped in her womb! He says she conceived a SON and the INFANT leaped. “Infant” was also the exact same word used to describe Christ in the manger AFTER He is born (Luke 2:12). According to God, an unborn infant and a newborn infant are the same.living human beings!

    Jeremiah 1:5:”Before I formed you in the belly I knew you. Before you were born I dedicated you, a prophet to the nations I appointed you.”

    Isn’t it awesome that God KNEW Jeremiah in the womb; that he appointed him a prophet before birth? God does not wait to view you fully human at birth. He knows you as human at conception. God says that life begins at conception, and the unborn child is a human being, so as a Christian, wouldn’t you agree?

    Let’s continue.

    Proverbs 6:16-17: “There are six things the Lord hates, yes, seven are an abomination to Him; haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood.”

    Deuteronomy 27:25: “Cursed be he who accepts payment for slaying an innocent man!”

    Psalm 127:3: “Children too are a gift from the Lord, the fruit of the womb, a reward.”

    Psalm 139:13-15: “You formed my inmost being; you knit me in my mother’s womb. I praise you, so wonderfully you made me; wonderful are your works! My self you knew; my bones were not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, fashioned as in the depths of the earth. Your eyes foresaw my actions; in your book all are written down; my days were shaped, before one came to be.”

    Galatians 1:15: “But when God, who from my mother’s womb had set me apart and called through his grace.”

    So what does all of this mean? God knows the unborn child. The Bible teaches that the child in the womb is truly a human child, who even has a relationship with the Lord. He curses the man who slays an innocent. Wouldn’t you agree that an unborn baby is innocent? To abort (from the Latin word aboriri, meaning “to perish”) is to kill an innocent person, and the Bible affirms that (unrepentant) murderers cannot enter the kingdom of heaven, as “outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the unchaste, the murderers, the idol-worshipers, and all who love and practice deceit.” (Revelation 22:15)

  • cajaquarius

    History is an amusing teacher. With it you can predict the future. Like watching the Born Again and more fundamentalist sects of Christianity of today walk in the footsteps of the Catholic Church of old while the Catholic church becomes more accepting of things like Evolution and Civil Rights. Once upon a time Martin Luther rebuked the Father Church for hoarding the bible and punishing those who knew how to read but were not a part of the ecclesiarchy. Today, many fundamentalists believe in interpretations of the bible passed down to them by church elders. No room for anything “progressive” like praying on these stories and coming to your own conclusions and disagreeing with the church elders – how dare you, a mere man, disagree with a church father? Why, he was chosen and touched by God and any refusal to accept his interpretation of the Holy Scripture is Heresy, Not unlike the Pope of old, in context, is it?

    The good news here is that the Abrahamic faiths always move in the same direction. See modern Jews in the first world, modern Catholics, and the protestants – you Baptists, Fundamentalist Church of Christ folks, and so on – you will follow them all the same. The worst is over, though. The witches have all been drowned and burned and Martin Luther’s experimental break from the Father Church of Rome has gotten past it’s Dark Ages. Even now your children adapt and change, layer by layer, generation by generation. The harder you hold, the stricter you are, the more they rebel and find their own way, reading and interpreting scripture for themselves.

    Get as angry as you like but take comfort in knowing that you walk the same path trode by Catholics and Jews before you. Know that behind you march the Muslims, their own fundamentalism worn away little by little, their own “Dark Ages” coming to an end despite the leadership’s hopes that God will return and allow the greatest among them to be great and powerful forever.

    • woodyl1011fl

      Clever, but you simply have no clue about that of which you write. Christians who believe and study God’s inerrant word have seen this willfully ignorant argument before know it’s true source. The false history presented and total lack of any sound hermeneutical application presented is nothing new. however, many unwary will taken in by the false arguments presented.

  • Cougar78

    I take it some of you haven’t read the article, or already made up your minds after the last part of the title. Here’s the point: Take a side, you can’t straddle a fence. Either you defend what you love, or you become what you’ve been fighting. There’s no middle ground. I do not expect many to care one way or the other, but I do notice lots of pontificating by some self-ascribed non-Believers. If The Bible is a waste of time and fantasy why read it? Isn’t there some Richard Dawkins or Gore Vidal book to read? No, you’re quite content or even striving to “educate” the dumb and unfortunate types, you sneering clal tea baggers, Bible humpers, etc. etc. What makes some of you think you’re going to get some “converts” to your side? Didn’t the whole Chick Fil A episode send a message? Apparently, not…..

  • http://nerdreviewstechnology.blogspot.com/ Nicholas Alexander Jabbour

    This article is ridiculous. People who believe that any man-founded political party can make or break someone’s faith is just fooling themselves. I could just as easily write an article about how you can’t be a Christian and a Conservative at the same time, and cite examples about how the modern right wing movement seems to be all about making the rich richer and more powerful, and everyone else weaker and poorer (which is NOT how Jesus would do things, no matter HOW you look at it or try to spin it).

  • Dan SweetTea Gaines

    On the subject of abortion and Christianity: Hitler was an evil man. Most sane people can agree with this. He was evil in his idea of a supreme race. He believed this to the extent of killing 6mil Jews and 5mil others, including mentally challenged individuals and non-white races. The majority of us would agree this is wrong. The 6th Commandment says “Thou shalt not kill.” So, wouldn’t being pro-choice be the same as saying “While I personally wouldn’t kill Jews, Hitler had a choice to do so.” ? Plus, to say that it may or may not be a life in there is the same as blowing up a building that may or may not have someone in it. Would you pull the detonation switch if someone said that there may or may not be someone in the building? I am down with women having choice. They can choose who they Marty, what career path they take, where they live, but whether or not to willfully kill another human being is out of the question. Murder is murder, no matter what spin you put on it.

    • http://www.nealalanspurlock.com/ Neal Alan Spurlock

      So be consistent. Murder is murder…okay, so stop supporting endless wars, casual torture, and the government’s belief that it has the right to assassinate American citizens and foreign civilians without due process. Hold the police responsible when they brutalize and murder citizens. Hold your legislators responsible for their games with health care, because that leads to preventable deaths that are happening mostly so politicians can make political hay…this is not worth murder, because murder is wrong, and murder is murder. Hold responsible the ultra-rich who sent all of the jobs overseas so they could make a buck off of sweatshops and child labor (also leads to preventable deaths), leaving millions of Americans with no income, no healthcare, and no jobs…which also has led to avoidable deaths. Texas just executed a mentally retarded man, and has executed more people than any other state…and DNA tests and new evidence have shown them to be wrong plenty of times. That’s innocent people being murdered by the state for crimes they didn’t commit, mostly so DAs can win elections and a for-profit prison system can make convictions profitable.

      Be pro-life…and be consistent. But stop trying to proclaim that Conservatives and the Right Wing in this country is the “pro-life” side when it’s only about abortion, and all the other institutionalized murder committed in our society gets a free pass…hell, it seems like they LOVE war, LOVE executing people, (guilty or not) and LOVE the idea that someone without insurance would die. They CHEERED for execution and death at the debates, remember? So if murder is murder, be consistent…don’t only be concerned about the single-issue voting button the GOP has had wired into their party. They are manipulating you to get your votes, and by their actions have proven they care nothing about murder or morality. They lie us into unnecessary, bloody wars that do nothing but cause more death and destruction in the world…while funneling money into the hands of the Military Industrial Complex.

      So be pro-life…stop supporting warhawks, execution fetishists, and murderers whose murder weapon is economics and the law. So long as your “murder is murder” stance only applies to abortion, then I would have to assume you don’t really care about murder, you care about winning the culture wars and getting your way politically. Which is fine…people have the right to support whatever politics they want. You just need to get off the moralistic high horse while you do so, because you’re not wearing a good-guy badge for being against abortion when you’re FOR aggressive, unnecessary wars, executing whoever you can jail (and jailing whoever you can), and making sure the poor and unemployed suffer as much as possible and then just die.

  • US in The Middle

    This writer has an absolute right to his beliefs and should not be criticized for them. But, his “your either Christian or not” by his strict definition is almost identical to radical Islam and un-American by my definition. As individuals we are allowed strict definitions. But, as a country that prides itself on our freedom and inclusiveness, we cannot afford such absolutes.

  • Dr. Brown

    OK Doug, this is good but you forgot to contrast the differences. Why would a vote for liberal ideology be so anti-Christian? Are we just supposed to take your word for it without any support for your assertions? Most people these days know very little about either the Bible or the leftest ideology and why that in itself would be so bad. After all leftest ideology that has been carefully mixed with truth and delivered with whipped cream and a cherry on top, sound and looks really good, just like the forbidden fruit in the garden. You and I both know that leftest ideology is the doctrine of demons and leads to death and to the lake of fire, but you’ll find that most of the people you’re trying to convince don’t know that or even know what you are talking about.

  • WML/CPL

    Bingo! Can’t get any more clear than this. Bravo for having the “wherewithall” to speak the truth.

  • mike

    Is that a real picture of the guy half burned or an edited image? Thats the most disgusting thing some one could post, showed no compassion IF that is a real picture!! (Explaining in a caption what/who it is, if it was real!!) Next, Thee most serious problem with america, IS our bi partisism! My God! The left is against the right. and the righties are against the lefties. This is destroying us! Not the rejection of ” God” . It seems that every one is focused on bashing and hate (from both sides) Though I will agree! The far left militant are seeming to be…er REALLY militant, I used to think liberials were liberial – open minded? Wrong! I have had it with the fascist liberal hatred, the political correctness indoctrination of our society and social engineering brainwashing! Its 100 times worse then 1984! And I am speaking from a secular..actually my true desire from a perspective of TRUE UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD and Universal Consciousness – open minded non religious perspective. I could say I am a christian, well I was raised christain, though I would humbly say I am a spiritual mystic……IF WE (EVERY ONE) in this nation does not drop and stop this hatred against each other, our fellow american citizens…We WILL be destroyed as a nation from both the INSIDE AND FROM OUR ENEMIES on the OUTSIDE!!! Come ON americans!

    • cmp

      It is a picture from a movie, but I can’t remember which one. I think it is distasteful, but so is the rest of the article.

  • Guest

    Sometimes
    it’s necessary to call “a spade a spade” in no uncertain terms. Some
    points of view, lifestyles, etc., are worthy of nothing more than
    disdain, of being mocked. It is necessary sometimes to wake people up
    to the fact that, if they continue in such beliefs/lifestyles, they are
    in danger of eternal hellfire. While it’s true you “catch more flies
    with honey” it is not true that you catch “all of them.” Even God’s
    Word says there are times to “answer a fool according to his folly,” that is to say, just as unbelievers mock God by their very unbelief and knowing/willful disobedience
    so too, the believer must answer their unbelief, their arguments, their
    lifestyle(s) with derision in order to put them in their place. Cf.
    “Answer a fool according to his foolishness, so that he may not be wise
    in his own eyes.” Pro 26:5 MKJV. We are still to love the individual
    sinner, even those who are the most wicked imaginable, because we are
    not God, we do not know who He, in His infinite wisdom and grace, will
    choose to save. But we must never give the impression that we approve
    of their sin, or their remaining in it.

    Just sayin,

  • MSGran

    AMEN! I’ve been saying this all along….you can’t be both!

  • CMP

    Wow! I totally disagree. I knew this article was going to be offensive when I read the title, but I read it anyways. None of your arguments are backed up, and I can tell you do not know much about liberals. Educate yourself, and you will be surprised what you find. I sometimes wonder if people with your view have ever read the bible before because Jesus sure didn’t have this attitude. Also let God judge peoples choices not you. You have no right to tell people to choose between being a christian and a liberal.

  • http://twitter.com/ericwparsons Eric Parsons

    Giles- It all depends on someones definition of Christian. According to Barna, 9% of all Christians hold a Biblical World view and less than 1% of young “Christians. We have a Great Apostacy within the churches today in America. Time for “Christians” to read and study thier Bibles.

  • Audrey

    This is why I have left the church. I no longer feel I can identify myself with this group of people, and hence no longer feel I have the right to call myself a christian.

    I do, however, love the teachings of Jesus: the compassionate, anti-establishment revolutionary who I met in the red-letter bibles.

  • 2fromrightbutstillsowrong

    This guy is an idiot, not a criticism, just an observation of his completely wrong line of thinking. How Pius of him to assert his assault on anyone that does not share his rigid and antiquated principles as being unworthy of claiming to be Christian. He is the kind of “preacher” that Jesus warned you about. I am so sick of Republicans staking sole claim on anything Christian. It’s a farce, and it is false prophecy, and Mr. Giles will be the one facing damnation for using God’s name to spread his hippacratic rants and false claims about who is and who isn’t able to claim they are Christian.

  • Karl Rove’s love child

    Batshit crazy…

  • FSM_47

    Booing God..Promoting Infanticide..A party that appeals to Atheists, anti-Christian Muslims, and the Communist Party ..Yep..That’s your new Democrat Party

    • http://www.nealalanspurlock.com/ Neal Alan Spurlock

      Cheating, lying, and stealing. Exploiting the weak, the workers, the ill. Rigging the laws to favor the rich while attacking the poor. Ruining the national infrastructure and the economy out of sheer greed and entitlement. Sending all the jobs to China (the last true communist power…funny how the red-haters love to make them benefit more from our economy than the US does) as a way of evading worker’s rights and workplace safety laws. Hiding money in other countries as a way of evading taxation. A party that appeals to racists, warmongers, homophobes, misogynists, and jingoists. Yep, that’s your same old–and I do mean OLD–Republican Party.

      Oh wait, I forgot: a party that appeals to delusional people who can’t face reality–you know, the reality where climate change causes superstorms, where there were no “weapons of mass destruction”, and where Romney never, ever had a chance of winning. Must be hard for you guys, maintaining that little bubble of delusion in the face of SO much evidence and basic reason. I feel sorry for the pain all that cognitive dissonance must cause…but not sorry enough to let the delusions go unconfronted. Too much is at stake to let a bunch of delusional, racist sociopaths run things any longer…sorry.

  • KD0084

    You’re absolutely right Doug. God is clearly against Faggot Marriage and Murdering Babies, while the dumbocrats support both. You must be joking to think you are a Christian. God killed Aaron’s two son’s who disobeyed lighting the exact type of fire he instructed to be lighted. If you think that is just old testament God, think again because in the New Testament, God killed Ananiah and Saphira because they lied to him and Peter. All you Liberals who want to become Christian need to read the entire books of the Bible and learn how to obey God. God isn’t someone you can joke around with.

  • atheistdirtbag

    If you really follow the bible as closely as you say then you MUST
    1. believe that slavery is ok
    2. believe that kiling gays and wiccans and atheists is the GODLY thing to do

    • Digger

      Wow. Does the bible really say slavery “is ok?” I’m glad to have people like you who can’t point out these bits. Where can I find that in the bible?

    • Digger

      Wow. Does the bible really say slavery “is ok?” I’m glad to have people like you who can’t point out these bits. Where can I find that in the bible?

  • atheistdirtbag

    The more I read and hear the things that right wing christians believe the MORE of an un-believer I become.

  • LiberalChristian

    Matthew 25:31-46

  • chris

    this is sooo true, i love how liberals will sympathize with the muslims whenever conservatives get at them, or theyll be cool with you wanting to a goth or a psychopath, but theyll trash christianity…what psychotic logic is that …i love how they will rush to the islamic faiths right to practice its religion, but will openly mock the bible….but this is the comedy of the left

  • CJ

    I’m really glad I found this article, I have been wrestling with the issue of belief and was thinking about going back to church (originally attended for over 17 years) because I love the teaching of compassion and empathy present in the bible but you’re article convinced me that I need to stay away from the church if I want to be able to focus on what’s important to me, helping (and most importantly not hurting) others. I guess calling people that believe differently than me names and playing the victim just hasn’t ever made me feel fulfilled. Thanks :)

  • I love the Lord

    You must know the Lord will not abide your nonsense forever.

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JOAN RIVERS: Watch Rivers’ Kick Butt On Critics of Israeli Response to Gaza Attack
UNANSWERED QUESTIONS: Barack Obama Leading from Behind
RUN, LIZ, RUN? Elizabeth Warren…Dances With Lies
SPEAKING FRANKLY: I Don’t Hate Muslims – I Just Don’t Trust Them
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