About the author: Mike Adams

Mike Adams is a criminology professor at the University of North Carolina Wilmington and author of Letters to a Young Progressive: How To Avoid Wasting Your Life Protesting Things You Don’t Understand.

View all articles by Mike Adams
  • Nick Santos

    wow, very interesting. good points.

  • Nick Santos

    wow, very interesting. good points.

  • Nick Santos

    wow, very interesting. good points.

  • Diana Lynn McDargh

    As a victim of a rape pregnancy and being age 12, I’m happy to report that the law protected my unborn child in 1964. He was adopted and we were reunited much later in his life. I’ve had the privilege of watching my granddaughters grow up. They wouldn’t be here either had he been aborted. He is the good thing that came from the ugliness. Can I say he was the beauty from the ashes?

    • Mary555

      Thank-you for sharing a lovely testimony, Diane. Your words are powerful truth from your own experience, no speculation. Your clarity of thinking is refreshing. May God continue to bless you and your family.

    • Mary555

      Thank-you for sharing a lovely testimony, Diane. Your words are powerful truth from your own experience, no speculation. Your clarity of thinking is refreshing. May God continue to bless you and your family.

    • Mary555

      Thank-you for sharing a lovely testimony, Diane. Your words are powerful truth from your own experience, no speculation. Your clarity of thinking is refreshing. May God continue to bless you and your family.

    • caskinner

      Awesome Diana. God bless you.

    • caskinner

      Awesome Diana. God bless you.

    • caskinner

      Awesome Diana. God bless you.

    • Oldmonkey

      I’ll defer to you, but what about the other 50,000,000? Most have no excuse other than “they can!”

    • Oldmonkey

      I’ll defer to you, but what about the other 50,000,000? Most have no excuse other than “they can!”

    • Jessica Sanchez

      I applaud your strength, Diana. You deserve to be proud for what you were able to do. I’m sure you had a lot of love and support, both emotionally and financially. Would you have been able to go through with your pregnancy, if legal, if you didn’t have that support?

    • Jessica Sanchez

      I applaud your strength, Diana. You deserve to be proud for what you were able to do. I’m sure you had a lot of love and support, both emotionally and financially. Would you have been able to go through with your pregnancy, if legal, if you didn’t have that support?

    • Jessica Sanchez

      I applaud your strength, Diana. You deserve to be proud for what you were able to do. I’m sure you had a lot of love and support, both emotionally and financially. Would you have been able to go through with your pregnancy, if legal, if you didn’t have that support?

    • Drnotarealemail

      I applaud your bravery and how much love you have in your heart, Diana. However, I believe that every woman should be able to choose her own destiny. I’m glad that you have so much love in your life and seem to be happy, but I don’t believe that your experience represents every woman’s experience

      • Annabella

        What you really meant to say is “that every woman should be able to choose the destiny of the baby within her”. A pregnant woman doesn’t choose for ONLY her own destiny…she is also choosing for the destiny of the child. The choice is the same for EVERY woman who becomes pregnant…she is choosing the destiny of TWO persons.

      • Annabella

        What you really meant to say is “that every woman should be able to choose the destiny of the baby within her”. A pregnant woman doesn’t choose for ONLY her own destiny…she is also choosing for the destiny of the child. The choice is the same for EVERY woman who becomes pregnant…she is choosing the destiny of TWO persons.

      • Annabella

        What you really meant to say is “that every woman should be able to choose the destiny of the baby within her”. A pregnant woman doesn’t choose for ONLY her own destiny…she is also choosing for the destiny of the child. The choice is the same for EVERY woman who becomes pregnant…she is choosing the destiny of TWO persons.

    • Drnotarealemail

      I applaud your bravery and how much love you have in your heart, Diana. However, I believe that every woman should be able to choose her own destiny. I’m glad that you have so much love in your life and seem to be happy, but I don’t believe that your experience represents every woman’s experience

    • Drnotarealemail

      I applaud your bravery and how much love you have in your heart, Diana. However, I believe that every woman should be able to choose her own destiny. I’m glad that you have so much love in your life and seem to be happy, but I don’t believe that your experience represents every woman’s experience

  • Diana Lynn McDargh

    As a victim of a rape pregnancy and being age 12, I’m happy to report that the law protected my unborn child in 1964. He was adopted and we were reunited much later in his life. I’ve had the privilege of watching my granddaughters grow up. They wouldn’t be here either had he been aborted. He is the good thing that came from the ugliness. Can I say he was the beauty from the ashes?

  • Brad Johnson

    Well argued position that supports, defends, encourages ALL persons left to deal with a rape aftermath, including the baby and the mother’s conscience. God will bless those who navigate through this storm of life in similar fashion.

  • Suzanne Olden

    Mike, that is an awesome article, and bless you for the speaking out that you do. Every life is precious, before and after birth. Removing the false justifications is not easy, but you did it with magnificent style, caring and consideration.

    • tom cook

      Every life is precious? You are kidding, right? Do you ever think before you blurt out absurdity: Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot, Josef Stalin, all of the serial killers we’ve known about? No every life is certainly not precious.

    • tom cook

      Every life is precious? You are kidding, right? Do you ever think before you blurt out absurdity: Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot, Josef Stalin, all of the serial killers we’ve known about? No every life is certainly not precious.

      • FedupandReadytofight

        This article is talking about the fetus, and the decisions to abort or not to abort; not what they turned out to be later in life. The monsters that you mentioned above, I’m sure, were born, nice inocent kids. Later, they gave their lives to Satan and did his work.

        Even the person’s mentioned above, I’m sure, gave their mothers plenty of love and enjoyment before becoming what they were.

        When you can invent some kind of mechanism that can predict the future of a fetus, and what he or she may become later in life, then and only then, can we talk about aborting because of what they may become. I don’t think there is anyone on earth that would argue with aborting Hitler’s fetus, or Stalin’s Fetus, or Pol Pot’s fetus….

      • FedupandReadytofight

        This article is talking about the fetus, and the decisions to abort or not to abort; not what they turned out to be later in life. The monsters that you mentioned above, I’m sure, were born, nice inocent kids. Later, they gave their lives to Satan and did his work.

        Even the person’s mentioned above, I’m sure, gave their mothers plenty of love and enjoyment before becoming what they were.

        When you can invent some kind of mechanism that can predict the future of a fetus, and what he or she may become later in life, then and only then, can we talk about aborting because of what they may become. I don’t think there is anyone on earth that would argue with aborting Hitler’s fetus, or Stalin’s Fetus, or Pol Pot’s fetus….

        • Steven

          No, the article was NOT about a ‘fetus’. It was about a CHILD. Using the term ‘fetus’ is a concession to the pro-abortion advocates. It is NOT a medical/scientific term.

        • Steven

          No, the article was NOT about a ‘fetus’. It was about a CHILD. Using the term ‘fetus’ is a concession to the pro-abortion advocates. It is NOT a medical/scientific term.

          • FedupandReadytofight

            Hmmmm. I learned the term in Biology 101, 202, 303, Child Development, ect.
            Where did you learn your terms ?
            It has nothing to do with Pro Abortion vrs. Anti Abortion.
            It is a developmental stage within the mother. A Fetus does not exist prior to conception, and it does not exist after birth.
            Communication is a two way project. If I say, and you understand, then our communication is successful.
            If I need to lower my vocabulary, so that I can successfully communicate with you, then OK.

          • Steven

            You learned the term in classes designed by people with a POLITICAL agenda. The term ‘fetus’ may have been ADOPTED by naive ‘scientists’, but it was CREATED by political activists.

          • Steven

            You learned the term in classes designed by people with a POLITICAL agenda. The term ‘fetus’ may have been ADOPTED by naive ‘scientists’, but it was CREATED by political activists.

          • FedupandReadytofight

            Steven, I think we’re on the same side here. We don’t need to “argue” over a simple term.

          • FedupandReadytofight

            Steven, I think we’re on the same side here. We don’t need to “argue” over a simple term.

          • FedupandReadytofight

            Steven, I think we’re on the same side here. We don’t need to “argue” over a simple term.

          • Jessica Sanchez

            Do you seriously believe the word “fetus” was created with the abortion issue in mind?

          • Steven

            ABSOLUTELY. Have you ever noticed when a person is considering an abortion, they NEVER refer to their baby. A pregnant mother that is not considering an abortion almost always does.

          • Jessica Sanchez

            Wow, Steven did you come up with that unbelievable observation all by yourself? I am impressed.

            Now, try to answer the question: Do you seriously believe the word “fetus” was created with the abortion issue in mind?

          • Steven

            You would be impressed with SIMPLE thought. You just proved YOU are incapable of elementary reasoning by responding to the ANSWER to your question by posing the question it answers.

          • Steven

            You would be impressed with SIMPLE thought. You just proved YOU are incapable of elementary reasoning by responding to the ANSWER to your question by posing the question it answers.

          • Jessica Sanchez

            Wow, Steven did you come up with that unbelievable observation all by yourself? I am impressed.

            Now, try to answer the question: Do you seriously believe the word “fetus” was created with the abortion issue in mind?

          • Jessica Sanchez

            Wow, Steven did you come up with that unbelievable observation all by yourself? I am impressed.

            Now, try to answer the question: Do you seriously believe the word “fetus” was created with the abortion issue in mind?

          • Jessica Sanchez

            Do you seriously believe the word “fetus” was created with the abortion issue in mind?

          • Ally

            This is a nominal fallacy–we think that by naming something, we have wholly explained it. We call a fetus a ‘fetus’ to give us a term we can use to accurately convey our meaning when we’re talking about that particular developmental stage. I could similarly say that a teenager does not exist prior to age 13, and does not exist after age 19, but that doesn’t mean there’s a change in personhood before or after that age range. Teenager, like ‘fetus’ or ‘embryo’ or ‘toddler’ is merely a categorical word meant to encompass a certain stage of development. We can’t use terminology as justification for any stance on abortion.

          • Ally

            This is a nominal fallacy–we think that by naming something, we have wholly explained it. We call a fetus a ‘fetus’ to give us a term we can use to accurately convey our meaning when we’re talking about that particular developmental stage. I could similarly say that a teenager does not exist prior to age 13, and does not exist after age 19, but that doesn’t mean there’s a change in personhood before or after that age range. Teenager, like ‘fetus’ or ‘embryo’ or ‘toddler’ is merely a categorical word meant to encompass a certain stage of development. We can’t use terminology as justification for any stance on abortion.

          • Ally

            This is a nominal fallacy–we think that by naming something, we have wholly explained it. We call a fetus a ‘fetus’ to give us a term we can use to accurately convey our meaning when we’re talking about that particular developmental stage. I could similarly say that a teenager does not exist prior to age 13, and does not exist after age 19, but that doesn’t mean there’s a change in personhood before or after that age range. Teenager, like ‘fetus’ or ‘embryo’ or ‘toddler’ is merely a categorical word meant to encompass a certain stage of development. We can’t use terminology as justification for any stance on abortion.

          • FedupandReadytofight

            Hmmmm. I learned the term in Biology 101, 202, 303, Child Development, ect.
            Where did you learn your terms ?
            It has nothing to do with Pro Abortion vrs. Anti Abortion.
            It is a developmental stage within the mother. A Fetus does not exist prior to conception, and it does not exist after birth.
            Communication is a two way project. If I say, and you understand, then our communication is successful.
            If I need to lower my vocabulary, so that I can successfully communicate with you, then OK.

          • FedupandReadytofight

            Hmmmm. I learned the term in Biology 101, 202, 303, Child Development, ect.
            Where did you learn your terms ?
            It has nothing to do with Pro Abortion vrs. Anti Abortion.
            It is a developmental stage within the mother. A Fetus does not exist prior to conception, and it does not exist after birth.
            Communication is a two way project. If I say, and you understand, then our communication is successful.
            If I need to lower my vocabulary, so that I can successfully communicate with you, then OK.

          • Jessica Sanchez

            A fetus is NOT a child. If you’re not going to be accurate with your wording, why don’t you just give every fetus a name and social security number? I wouldn’t be surprised if some right wing nut proposed such a bill. Some rightees have indeed tried to pass bills which would mandate women to report miscarriages! To say you people are nuts would be an insult to squirrels.

          • Melody Lowe

            fetus or foetus is latin for offspring..

            a : the product of the reproductive processes of an animal or plant : young, progeny

            b : child
            or

            Obstetris 1. The unborn child developing in the uterus–after the embryonic stage, circa age 7 to 8 wks to birth 2. The product of conception from the time of implantation until delivery; if the delivered or expelled fetus is viable, it is designated an infant.

          • Ally

            See, Jessica is making assertions based on the personhood or lack of personhood of the fetus, not the nomenclature. This is something we can debate about. (The original meaning of the term is less relevant, as the term is only used to make it clear what we’re talking about.) However, Jessica, the whole of your post follows from the first assumption you make–”A fetus is NOT a child.” I say it is. Rather than moving forward with our conclusions, if we’re going to have a debate, let’s work backwards and figure out how we’re going to support the assumptions that lead to our conclusions. If we all reached the same starting point, it would be much easier (and more profitable) to discuss the ramifications of it. Arguing about what the legislature should or should not do is pointless if the basic assumptions of the debating parties are polar opposites, as they are here.

          • Steven

            No, the term is NOT used to make it clear what is being discussed, It is used for exactly the opposite, to AVOID using the PROPER term, which is child. The REASON the term exists is to declare the child is NOT a person, That is precisely WHY it is relevant.

          • Ally

            Note: I will use the word ‘fetus’ because it is specific to a particular stage of development, whereas ‘child’ is generic. If it makes you more comfortable to call it ‘an unborn child between the ages of 8 weeks and 9 months’ go ahead, but I find that to be a mouthful.
            You are doing the same thing Jessica did–making assertions based on your assumption (in your case, the assumption that a fetus is a child). The word ‘child’ is only the proper term IF you establish it as the proper term by evidence and logic. In order to debate, you need to be able to back up and support what you are currently presenting as nothing more than rigid dogma. As long as one or both sides of a debate are simply shouting assertions at one another, the discussion is pointless.

          • Steven

            The term ‘fetus’ does NOT refer to a specific stage of development. See the DEFINITION posted by Melody Lowe.

            The ONLY ‘assumption’ I am making is that words mean what the DEFINITIONS of the words say. Child is the proper term BY DEFINITION of the term. If you reject the dictionary, you are incapable of having a conversation, rational or otherwise, because you are literally speaking a different language.

          • Ally

            It’s kind of hard to discuss with you when youkeep changing your argument. Are you still saying that fetus was a word coined to create a political distinction, or that fetus in itself means child? Pick one.

            The primary definition, as provided by Melody Lowe, is just ‘offspring.’ Other dictionaries provide similar definitions, but more specific (all along the same vein, so I am only posting the first one that came up): “the young of an animal in the womb or egg, especially in the later stages of development when the body structures are in the recognizable form of its kind, in humans after the end of the second month of gestation.”

            So really, it DOES show a specific stage of development–that in which most characteristics of the adult form are present.

            Perhaps the discussion will be improved by involving the dictionary definition of ‘child.’

            “a person between birth and full growth; a boy or girl.”

            Oops. That didn’t help your side, did it? Here, lower down there’s another definition:

            “a human fetus.”

            There we go; I’m sure that’s the one you would choose to represent your view. However, as you can plainly see, the dictionary isn’t the best place to formulate a view from, since the dictionary’s job is to provide all usages of the word.

            So, how about evidence and logic now? Let’s debate how to tell whether the unborn young is a human being or not. That’s where the discussion, and the legislature, will be won or lost. If you start with the assertion that a fetus IS a child, of course it will have certain ramifications. If you start with the assertion that the fetus is NOT a child, then of course the ramifications will be completely different. But you will never convince someone by simply asserting your assumption and then going on about its consequences. the crowd that already agrees with you will sing your praises; the other side will yell their assumptions back at you. No progress. Not the way to unify views and make changes.

          • Steven

            I haven’t changed my argument at all. YOU have changed your INTERPRETATION of my argument. If you check a dictionary written BEFORE the abortion activists hijacked the language, the definition of child is NOT limited to after birth. A child is a child from the moment of conception. I DEFY you to find a SCIENTIFICALLY quantifiable point after conception when there is a change, other than location, that can be called the beginning of life. Birth is merely a change of location. NO scientist claims a quantifiable change occurs at that point.

          • Ally

            If ‘fetus’ is a word coined specifically to mean ‘not a child’ then the inclusion of the word ‘child’ in the dictionary definition of fetus renders the first argument invalid. So if my interpretations keep changing, it’s because you’re not being very clear.

            Regardless of the pre-abortion v. post-abortion dictionary definitions, all the discrepancy between the two proves is that people’s BELIEFS have changed.

            However, BRAVO! You’ve come to a point where you’re defending your assertion based on evidence and logic! You’re right; I CAN’T find a quantifiable point in child development where anything other than location appreciably changes! The support of scientists across the board serves to bolster the claim. That is one of the many reasons I believe the unborn child is still human. My stance on abortion is part of why I think it’s so important for us to learn to discuss intelligently and effectively on this crucial issue. Congratulations, you have reached an understanding of how to debate with people who don’t agree with you. Except, you know, possibly with more tact and less ‘I DEFY YOU’ rhetoric. People are more receptive to people who sound reasonable (even if they’re not, but that’s another discussion entirely).

            Pleasure discoursing with you!

          • Steven

            YOU just reinterpreted my statement AGAIN. I NEVER said fetus meant ‘not a child’. I SPECIFICALLY said it was used to AVOID using the PROPER term, which is child. I NEVER said the definition of fetus included the word child. I said the definition of CHILD included what YOU call a fetus. The only thing unclear is the NEXT reinterpretation YOU will have to make to avoid understanding what I have CONSISTENTLY stated. I have been using logic the ENTIRE time. Please join the effort.are subject to

            Note: Changing the dictionary does NOT prove ANYONE’S beliefs have changed. It only proves that control of the dictionary is in the hands of people with a different position. In any case, what people believe is NOT what we have been arguing. The discussion has been what is RIGHT or WRONG. Regardless of which side that is, it is a CONSTANT, no matter what anyone believes. If right and wrong are subject to what people believe, they are MEANINGLESS concepts.

          • Ally

            It’s difficult to decide WHAT you mean when you’re busier making sure I know I’m an idiot than actually convincing me as to why you believe you’re right.

            So. That aside. You’re basically saying that the use of the word ‘fetus’ is a conspiracy by political activists. However, if the definition of the word is specifically meant to avoid using the word ‘child’ in discussion, then it stands to reason that you assume ‘fetus’ removes the humanity of the unborn–does not include the definition of ‘child.’ However, as you pointed out in Melody’s definition, it does. So, what again are you trying to say about this?

            Note: Yes it does. Maybe only the people in whose hands it is (allowing for the conspiracy you’re talking about), but someone’s.

            Further note: You have made one definitely accurate statement here, that ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ are meaningless if they’re subjective. However, the debate as to which side (if any) is right or wrong will not be solved by you yelling (in INCREASING AMOUNTS OF CAPITAL LETTERS) about your opinion of what is right.

            In any case, I give up on having a true debate with you because you are more hostile than logical. Step back and give your emotions a back seat so that you can discuss in a more reasonable fashion–and so more people will listen.

          • Steven

            It would be extremely EASY to understand what I mean if you didn’t REFUSE to understand anything I say. I NEVER implied you are an idiot. An idiot simply doesn’t know what they are talking about. You appear to be going to great effort NOT to acknowledge what you DO understand.

          • Steven

            It would be extremely EASY to understand what I mean if you didn’t REFUSE to understand anything I say. I NEVER implied you are an idiot. An idiot simply doesn’t know what they are talking about. You appear to be going to great effort NOT to acknowledge what you DO understand.

          • Ally

            Nope, I was honestly trying. But I’m done now, and I’ll let the people who read this use it as an edifying experience regardless of which of us was making more sense. Bye now.

          • Steven

            You were done TRYING to understand several days ago. You absolutely REFUSE the understand anyone that won’t agree with you. The only thing you were trying to do is distort everything I said to make yourself FEEL better.

          • Ally

            There is no longer discussion pertinent to the topic happening–the hostility is now gratuitous. As I said before, I’m done.

          • Steven

            As I said before, I’m done.

            Anyone posting these words is PROVING they are lying. If you actually believed you were done, you wouldn’t have responded to ANYTHING posted after stating you were done. However, you seem to need to get in the last word.

          • Ally

            There is no longer discussion pertinent to the topic happening–the hostility is now gratuitous. As I said before, I’m done.

          • Ally

            There is no longer discussion pertinent to the topic happening–the hostility is now gratuitous. As I said before, I’m done.

          • Steven

            You were done TRYING to understand several days ago. You absolutely REFUSE the understand anyone that won’t agree with you. The only thing you were trying to do is distort everything I said to make yourself FEEL better.

          • Steven

            It would be extremely EASY to understand what I mean if you didn’t REFUSE to understand anything I say. I NEVER implied you are an idiot. An idiot simply doesn’t know what they are talking about. You appear to be going to great effort NOT to acknowledge what you DO understand.

          • Ally

            It’s difficult to decide WHAT you mean when you’re busier making sure I know I’m an idiot than actually convincing me as to why you believe you’re right.

            So. That aside. You’re basically saying that the use of the word ‘fetus’ is a conspiracy by political activists. However, if the definition of the word is specifically meant to avoid using the word ‘child’ in discussion, then it stands to reason that you assume ‘fetus’ removes the humanity of the unborn–does not include the definition of ‘child.’ However, as you pointed out in Melody’s definition, it does. So, what again are you trying to say about this?

            Note: Yes it does. Maybe only the people in whose hands it is (allowing for the conspiracy you’re talking about), but someone’s.

            Further note: You have made one definitely accurate statement here, that ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ are meaningless if they’re subjective. However, the debate as to which side (if any) is right or wrong will not be solved by you yelling (in INCREASING AMOUNTS OF CAPITAL LETTERS) about your opinion of what is right.

            In any case, I give up on having a true debate with you because you are more hostile than logical. Step back and give your emotions a back seat so that you can discuss in a more reasonable fashion–and so more people will listen.

          • Steven

            YOU just reinterpreted my statement AGAIN. I NEVER said fetus meant ‘not a child’. I SPECIFICALLY said it was used to AVOID using the PROPER term, which is child. I NEVER said the definition of fetus included the word child. I said the definition of CHILD included what YOU call a fetus. The only thing unclear is the NEXT reinterpretation YOU will have to make to avoid understanding what I have CONSISTENTLY stated. I have been using logic the ENTIRE time. Please join the effort.are subject to

            Note: Changing the dictionary does NOT prove ANYONE’S beliefs have changed. It only proves that control of the dictionary is in the hands of people with a different position. In any case, what people believe is NOT what we have been arguing. The discussion has been what is RIGHT or WRONG. Regardless of which side that is, it is a CONSTANT, no matter what anyone believes. If right and wrong are subject to what people believe, they are MEANINGLESS concepts.

          • Steven

            YOU just reinterpreted my statement AGAIN. I NEVER said fetus meant ‘not a child’. I SPECIFICALLY said it was used to AVOID using the PROPER term, which is child. I NEVER said the definition of fetus included the word child. I said the definition of CHILD included what YOU call a fetus. The only thing unclear is the NEXT reinterpretation YOU will have to make to avoid understanding what I have CONSISTENTLY stated. I have been using logic the ENTIRE time. Please join the effort.are subject to

            Note: Changing the dictionary does NOT prove ANYONE’S beliefs have changed. It only proves that control of the dictionary is in the hands of people with a different position. In any case, what people believe is NOT what we have been arguing. The discussion has been what is RIGHT or WRONG. Regardless of which side that is, it is a CONSTANT, no matter what anyone believes. If right and wrong are subject to what people believe, they are MEANINGLESS concepts.

          • Jennifer

            Steven, you’re sounding ridiculous, hopping back and forth between capital letters and annoying even someone who agrees with your overall position. Calm down.

          • Jennifer

            Steven, you’re sounding ridiculous, hopping back and forth between capital letters and annoying even someone who agrees with your overall position. Calm down.

          • Steven

            I haven’t changed my argument at all. YOU have changed your INTERPRETATION of my argument. If you check a dictionary written BEFORE the abortion activists hijacked the language, the definition of child is NOT limited to after birth. A child is a child from the moment of conception. I DEFY you to find a SCIENTIFICALLY quantifiable point after conception when there is a change, other than location, that can be called the beginning of life. Birth is merely a change of location. NO scientist claims a quantifiable change occurs at that point.

          • Ally

            It’s kind of hard to discuss with you when youkeep changing your argument. Are you still saying that fetus was a word coined to create a political distinction, or that fetus in itself means child? Pick one.

            The primary definition, as provided by Melody Lowe, is just ‘offspring.’ Other dictionaries provide similar definitions, but more specific (all along the same vein, so I am only posting the first one that came up): “the young of an animal in the womb or egg, especially in the later stages of development when the body structures are in the recognizable form of its kind, in humans after the end of the second month of gestation.”

            So really, it DOES show a specific stage of development–that in which most characteristics of the adult form are present.

            Perhaps the discussion will be improved by involving the dictionary definition of ‘child.’

            “a person between birth and full growth; a boy or girl.”

            Oops. That didn’t help your side, did it? Here, lower down there’s another definition:

            “a human fetus.”

            There we go; I’m sure that’s the one you would choose to represent your view. However, as you can plainly see, the dictionary isn’t the best place to formulate a view from, since the dictionary’s job is to provide all usages of the word.

            So, how about evidence and logic now? Let’s debate how to tell whether the unborn young is a human being or not. That’s where the discussion, and the legislature, will be won or lost. If you start with the assertion that a fetus IS a child, of course it will have certain ramifications. If you start with the assertion that the fetus is NOT a child, then of course the ramifications will be completely different. But you will never convince someone by simply asserting your assumption and then going on about its consequences. the crowd that already agrees with you will sing your praises; the other side will yell their assumptions back at you. No progress. Not the way to unify views and make changes.

          • Ally

            Note: I will use the word ‘fetus’ because it is specific to a particular stage of development, whereas ‘child’ is generic. If it makes you more comfortable to call it ‘an unborn child between the ages of 8 weeks and 9 months’ go ahead, but I find that to be a mouthful.
            You are doing the same thing Jessica did–making assertions based on your assumption (in your case, the assumption that a fetus is a child). The word ‘child’ is only the proper term IF you establish it as the proper term by evidence and logic. In order to debate, you need to be able to back up and support what you are currently presenting as nothing more than rigid dogma. As long as one or both sides of a debate are simply shouting assertions at one another, the discussion is pointless.

          • Waclaw Jerzy Borken-Hagen

            Steven, you are onto something very revealing.
            It is immaterial how the term was created and why.
            It remains a possibilty it can be picked up and used
            with an illicit intent. Lefties are crafty at that. Look at
            how they abuse the vocabulary for spin purposes :
            Affordable Care, Fair Share, Affirmative Action,
            Common Core, Implausible Deniability (inability to
            produce a convincing lie) are some of the examples.
            They elegantly suggest something which is not.
            In more general terms, historically humans discovered that
            dehumanizing facilitates overcoming objections to murder.
            Germans were referred to as “krauts”, Japanese – “Japs”
            and Vietnamese – “Gooks” during respective conflicts.

          • Steven

            No, the term is NOT used to make it clear what is being discussed, It is used for exactly the opposite, to AVOID using the PROPER term, which is child. The REASON the term exists is to declare the child is NOT a person, That is precisely WHY it is relevant.

          • Steven

            No, the term is NOT used to make it clear what is being discussed, It is used for exactly the opposite, to AVOID using the PROPER term, which is child. The REASON the term exists is to declare the child is NOT a person, That is precisely WHY it is relevant.

          • Ally

            See, Jessica is making assertions based on the personhood or lack of personhood of the fetus, not the nomenclature. This is something we can debate about. (The original meaning of the term is less relevant, as the term is only used to make it clear what we’re talking about.) However, Jessica, the whole of your post follows from the first assumption you make–”A fetus is NOT a child.” I say it is. Rather than moving forward with our conclusions, if we’re going to have a debate, let’s work backwards and figure out how we’re going to support the assumptions that lead to our conclusions. If we all reached the same starting point, it would be much easier (and more profitable) to discuss the ramifications of it. Arguing about what the legislature should or should not do is pointless if the basic assumptions of the debating parties are polar opposites, as they are here.

          • Ally

            See, Jessica is making assertions based on the personhood or lack of personhood of the fetus, not the nomenclature. This is something we can debate about. (The original meaning of the term is less relevant, as the term is only used to make it clear what we’re talking about.) However, Jessica, the whole of your post follows from the first assumption you make–”A fetus is NOT a child.” I say it is. Rather than moving forward with our conclusions, if we’re going to have a debate, let’s work backwards and figure out how we’re going to support the assumptions that lead to our conclusions. If we all reached the same starting point, it would be much easier (and more profitable) to discuss the ramifications of it. Arguing about what the legislature should or should not do is pointless if the basic assumptions of the debating parties are polar opposites, as they are here.

          • Jennifer

            Yes, a fetus is a child, Jessica.

          • Jessica Sanchez

            No Jenny, a fetus is a fetus and a child is a child. A fetus becomes a child when it’s born. Use the English language intelligently or don’t speak at all.

          • Jennifer

            Don’t talk to me with disrespect, please. A fetus is what they call it even after partially birthing it and killing it, or tearing apart a baby with limbs and organs in the womb. It is an unborn child.

          • Ally

            You two sound like you could have a good discussion on this. Jessica, you draw a distinction between a fetus and a child. Why? Jennifer, you call it a child, seemingly, because it has limbs and organs. Can you defend the use of that criteria for determining human-hood?

          • Ally

            You two sound like you could have a good discussion on this. Jessica, you draw a distinction between a fetus and a child. Why? Jennifer, you call it a child, seemingly, because it has limbs and organs. Can you defend the use of that criteria for determining human-hood?

          • Jennifer

            Well, it’s got human DNA, human organs, human limbs, a human brain. Need anything else? A dog tag?

          • Jennifer

            Well, it’s got human DNA, human organs, human limbs, a human brain. Need anything else? A dog tag?

          • Jennifer

            Well, it’s got human DNA, human organs, human limbs, a human brain. Need anything else? A dog tag?

          • Ally

            You two sound like you could have a good discussion on this. Jessica, you draw a distinction between a fetus and a child. Why? Jennifer, you call it a child, seemingly, because it has limbs and organs. Can you defend the use of that criteria for determining human-hood?

          • Jessica Sanchez

            I’ll talk to you with the respect you deserve. So far, I see no reason to give you morerespect than I already have.

          • Jennifer

            Then you can’t reasonably expect me to either respect you or even take your caustical viewpoints seriously. Thanks for saving me time.

            fe·tus
            /ˈfētəs/

            Noun

            An unborn or unhatched offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human baby more than eight weeks after conception.

          • Jennifer

            Then you can’t reasonably expect me to either respect you or even take your caustical viewpoints seriously. Thanks for saving me time.

            fe·tus
            /ˈfētəs/

            Noun

            An unborn or unhatched offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human baby more than eight weeks after conception.

          • Jennifer

            Then you can’t reasonably expect me to either respect you or even take your caustical viewpoints seriously. Thanks for saving me time.

            fe·tus
            /ˈfētəs/

            Noun

            An unborn or unhatched offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human baby more than eight weeks after conception.

          • Jessica Sanchez

            I’ll talk to you with the respect you deserve. So far, I see no reason to give you morerespect than I already have.

          • Jessica Sanchez

            I’ll talk to you with the respect you deserve. So far, I see no reason to give you morerespect than I already have.

          • Jennifer

            Don’t talk to me with disrespect, please. A fetus is what they call it even after partially birthing it and killing it, or tearing apart a baby with limbs and organs in the womb. It is an unborn child.

          • Jennifer

            Don’t talk to me with disrespect, please. A fetus is what they call it even after partially birthing it and killing it, or tearing apart a baby with limbs and organs in the womb. It is an unborn child.

          • Jessica Sanchez

            No Jenny, a fetus is a fetus and a child is a child. A fetus becomes a child when it’s born. Use the English language intelligently or don’t speak at all.

          • Jessica Sanchez

            No Jenny, a fetus is a fetus and a child is a child. A fetus becomes a child when it’s born. Use the English language intelligently or don’t speak at all.

          • Jennifer

            Yes, a fetus is a child, Jessica.

          • Jennifer

            Yes, a fetus is a child, Jessica.

          • Bonsall Billy

            The word fetus (plural fetuses) is from the Latin fetus, meaning offspring, bringing forth, hatching of young.

          • Jessica Sanchez

            A fetus is NOT a child. If you’re not going to be accurate with your wording, why don’t you just give every fetus a name and social security number? I wouldn’t be surprised if some right wing nut proposed such a bill. Some rightees have indeed tried to pass bills which would mandate women to report miscarriages! To say you people are nuts would be an insult to squirrels.

          • Jessica Sanchez

            A fetus is NOT a child. If you’re not going to be accurate with your wording, why don’t you just give every fetus a name and social security number? I wouldn’t be surprised if some right wing nut proposed such a bill. Some rightees have indeed tried to pass bills which would mandate women to report miscarriages! To say you people are nuts would be an insult to squirrels.

        • Steven

          No, the article was NOT about a ‘fetus’. It was about a CHILD. Using the term ‘fetus’ is a concession to the pro-abortion advocates. It is NOT a medical/scientific term.

      • FedupandReadytofight

        This article is talking about the fetus, and the decisions to abort or not to abort; not what they turned out to be later in life. The monsters that you mentioned above, I’m sure, were born, nice inocent kids. Later, they gave their lives to Satan and did his work.

        Even the person’s mentioned above, I’m sure, gave their mothers plenty of love and enjoyment before becoming what they were.

        When you can invent some kind of mechanism that can predict the future of a fetus, and what he or she may become later in life, then and only then, can we talk about aborting because of what they may become. I don’t think there is anyone on earth that would argue with aborting Hitler’s fetus, or Stalin’s Fetus, or Pol Pot’s fetus….

      • Barnlady

        Tom, good grief, not every “Scum Bag” was a rape child.. If my memory serves me right Hitler and Stalin had parents, sorry don’t know about Pot.. It would be “lovely” if we could tell before they were born but then we would be GOD.. GOD has a plan for the “Scum Bags” so I will let him do it HIS way.. I just need to have a clear conscience..

      • Miki M. Gain

        EVERY life is precious – even those who do heinous things. That is why capitol punishment should NEVER be considered a trite thing.

        Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin – they all did very horrid things and they justly deserve punishment for them. As none of them repented of their evil before they died and accepted Jesus Christ as their savior, I do believe they will receive that punishment from God at the Great White Throne Judgement.

        The value of life an individual has in inherent. It has nothing to do with actions or attitudes. It has everything to do with their person-hood. If it were NOT inherent, then we could determine that anyone we didn’t like was not meriting life in our minds and easily justify their extermination … thus becoming the monster we so decry.

        The existence of evil in the hearts of people is no justification for murder. It is no justification for abortion.

      • Miki M. Gain

        EVERY life is precious – even those who do heinous things. That is why capitol punishment should NEVER be considered a trite thing.

        Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin – they all did very horrid things and they justly deserve punishment for them. As none of them repented of their evil before they died and accepted Jesus Christ as their savior, I do believe they will receive that punishment from God at the Great White Throne Judgement.

        The value of life an individual has in inherent. It has nothing to do with actions or attitudes. It has everything to do with their person-hood. If it were NOT inherent, then we could determine that anyone we didn’t like was not meriting life in our minds and easily justify their extermination … thus becoming the monster we so decry.

        The existence of evil in the hearts of people is no justification for murder. It is no justification for abortion.

        • MitchellSandlin

          RAPE IS JUSTIFICATION OF LEGAL EXECUTION AS IS MURDER, TREASON AND KIDNAPPING. I AGREE THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR ABORTION.
          I BELEIVE THE PEOPLE WHO DO THE ABOVE SHOULD BE
          HELPED TO MEET THEIR FINAL JUDGEMENT.

          • Disgusted

            WHAT??? SPEAK LOUDER! I CAN’T HEAR YOU!

          • Disgusted

            WHAT??? SPEAK LOUDER! I CAN’T HEAR YOU!

          • Disgusted

            WHAT??? SPEAK LOUDER! I CAN’T HEAR YOU!

          • Annoyedbycapslock

            IT’S BELIEVE, NOT BELEIVE. IT IS CONFUSING TO LEAVE OUT THE COMMA AFTER “EXECUTION” OR THE PERIOD AFTER “I AGREE.” Which I don’t, by the way.

          • MitchellSandlin

            Well, screw you very much. Folks like you must want to be teachers but could not pass the test.
            I am an old man with bad eyes and very bad arthritis and I make
            mistakes. I sometimes forget to proof read my posts and I do not care a crap if you agree with me or not.
            I took the time to write this in word and do spell check just for you. Please Kiss my Grits.

          • Heather

            You tell em! People are so quick to judge. I hope you find relief from your arthritis.

          • beckah

            I am as well a Christian and almost everything you said other than this I agree. After reading your further notes I just keep scrolling back up to this comment to make sure I am reading correctly from the same person… I understand your frustration…just don’t think this reflects the heart of God…not judging just holding you accountable :)

          • beckah

            I am as well a Christian and almost everything you said other than this I agree. After reading your further notes I just keep scrolling back up to this comment to make sure I am reading correctly from the same person… I understand your frustration…just don’t think this reflects the heart of God…not judging just holding you accountable :)

          • MitchellSandlin

            Well, screw you very much. Folks like you must want to be teachers but could not pass the test.
            I am an old man with bad eyes and very bad arthritis and I make
            mistakes. I sometimes forget to proof read my posts and I do not care a crap if you agree with me or not.
            I took the time to write this in word and do spell check just for you. Please Kiss my Grits.

          • Annoyedbycapslock

            IT’S BELIEVE, NOT BELEIVE. IT IS CONFUSING TO LEAVE OUT THE COMMA AFTER “EXECUTION” OR THE PERIOD AFTER “I AGREE.” Which I don’t, by the way.

          • Jeff Johnson

            What about incest?

          • Jeff Johnson

            What about incest?

          • Jeff Johnson

            What about incest?

          • Jessica Sanchez

            I’m sure your religion helps you sleep at night while condemning others to death when you know nothing about their circumstances. I’m sure you support comprehensive sex ed so our youth can do all they can to avoid unwanted pregnacies…. right?

          • MitchellSandlin

            I sleep just fine. Do the souls of the victims bother you at night. I do not feel sex courses should be taught in public schools.
            Comprehensive Sex ed sounds like you want to teach gay sex. I do not care what you do behind closed doors as long as it is consensual and both or all parties are of legal age.
            I do not want your feelinigs forced on me and mine.

          • Jessica Sanchez

            What sex ed sounds like and what it is are two very different things. Do you always make important decisions based on how things “sound”?

          • MitchellSandlin

            Madam, you are free to have your beliefs and I am free to have mine. It is fine with me if you disagree with me.

            Teaching kindergarten age children sex is asinine. I sent my kids to school to learn to read, write and math, to learn the real American and World and State histories, to learn Geography.

            My wife and I raised 2 fine children and neither has been involved in an out of marriage pregnancy.

            I believe it is my job to teach my children how to act in public, to know the difference in right and wrong. A teacher should be like a doctor, do no wrong. Teachers should enforce fundamental right and wrong and leave raising the kids to the
            family.

          • Jessica Sanchez

            You sound like a responsible dad.Congratulations on your great parenting job. It is a different and complex world out there for kids these days. They are under a lot of pressure and need better and more accurate information than any generation before them. A comprehensive sex ed program teachers students in very age appropriate ways. Sex is not taught to kindergarteners. Things like appropriate and non appropriate touching may be taught. Young children are abused by people they know. Sex ed helps to teach young kids what is and is not appropriate touching by people they may come in contact with. As children grew older they are taught more mature age appropriate material. Older children are taught about STDs. It may sound simple to you but, there is a lot of this material that parents probably are not up on.
            For instance, many younger teens believe oral sex is 100% safe. It is not. STDs can be passed even if neither the boy or the girl ever had intercourse. Do you know about those? Do you think that would be important information that your child should be educated about?

            Older kids are taught older age appropriate information. Regardless of how insistent parents may be that kids abstain from sex, they do not. These classes teach kids what they should know at their age. These programs have been extremely effective at reducing teen pregnancies as well as STDs.
            Many parents believe as you say you do, that sex ed should be taught in the home. The problem is that many of those same parents do not teach their children anything about sex ed. Then those kids go out and engage in activities that endanger their health their lives and impact the entire family. This is why sex ed has been mandated in most areas.
            Ignoring the real world is not an effective strategy to keep our kids safe.

          • MitchellSandlin

            Ms. Sanchez, nice to see you are not an idiot. :) Yes. we are aware of STDs. My wife reads medicial information on the the Internet and watches medical stuff on the TV all the time.
            We were constantly talking to iour kids about what was going on. If we did not know anything we checked it out. Before the Internet we used the librasry and discussed things with friends whio worked for doctors, lawyers and our relatioves and friends who were in enforcement law.
            Really, all it takes is to care and some effort.

          • MitchellSandlin

            Ms. Sanchez, nice to see you are not an idiot. :) Yes. we are aware of STDs. My wife reads medicial information on the the Internet and watches medical stuff on the TV all the time.
            We were constantly talking to iour kids about what was going on. If we did not know anything we checked it out. Before the Internet we used the librasry and discussed things with friends whio worked for doctors, lawyers and our relatioves and friends who were in enforcement law.
            Really, all it takes is to care and some effort.

          • MitchellSandlin

            Ms. Sanchez, nice to see you are not an idiot. :) Yes. we are aware of STDs. My wife reads medicial information on the the Internet and watches medical stuff on the TV all the time.
            We were constantly talking to iour kids about what was going on. If we did not know anything we checked it out. Before the Internet we used the librasry and discussed things with friends whio worked for doctors, lawyers and our relatioves and friends who were in enforcement law.
            Really, all it takes is to care and some effort.

          • MitchellSandlin

            I do not and will ever condone teaching anthing about sex to younger children; especially gay sex.

            Leviticus 20:13 – If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

          • Jessica Sanchez

            Mitchell, I don’t know where you and your wife are doing your research but, I guarantee you that you are looking in the wrong places. Sex Ed in schools does NOT teach “gay sex”.
            Leviticus, and all those similar Bible passages, are not about “homosexual relationships or homosexual sex”. They are all about teaching that sex in shrines during pagan rituals to pagan Gods is what is not acceptable. Your religious teachings have taught you that the Bible is against gay relationships. The truth is that the Bible does no such thing. In fact, there are several stories in the Bible celebrating homosexual relationships and marriages. Back in the days when Christ supposedly lived, there was no concept of homosexuality. Same gender sex was quite common. I’ll leave it at that as I don’t want to get into all that here.

          • falling321

            I have no idea what school district YOU are in, but I can assure that most schools begin teaching about homosexuality in kindergarten now! They even have books such as “Sally Has Two Mommy’s” in order to facilitate the lessons. And by 9th grade they get very graphic! I have no problem at all with schools teaching the reproductive system during biology, but sex ed is NOT taught in biology and the “lessons” go so far as to have students practice putting condoms on banana’s…one teacher even demonstrated how to do this using your mouth and tongue! There is a massive difference between teaching our children about human biological functions in science class…what they are teaching in our schools is another thing altogether!

          • falling321

            I have no idea what school district YOU are in, but I can assure that most schools begin teaching about homosexuality in kindergarten now! They even have books such as “Sally Has Two Mommy’s” in order to facilitate the lessons. And by 9th grade they get very graphic! I have no problem at all with schools teaching the reproductive system during biology, but sex ed is NOT taught in biology and the “lessons” go so far as to have students practice putting condoms on banana’s…one teacher even demonstrated how to do this using your mouth and tongue! There is a massive difference between teaching our children about human biological functions in science class…what they are teaching in our schools is another thing altogether!

          • Jessica Sanchez

            Teaching little kids that there are families with a mommy and a daddy, 2 moms or 2 daddies is NOT teaching gay sex. I realize you homophobes don’t want to acknowledge this is true but, it is. And little kids see it. They see a lot more than people like you give them credit for. They can even see when you are talking and acting like a bigot.

          • Jessica Sanchez

            Teaching little kids that there are families with a mommy and a daddy, 2 moms or 2 daddies is NOT teaching gay sex. I realize you homophobes don’t want to acknowledge this is true but, it is. And little kids see it. They see a lot more than people like you give them credit for. They can even see when you are talking and acting like a bigot.

          • Jessica Sanchez

            Teaching little kids that there are families with a mommy and a daddy, 2 moms or 2 daddies is NOT teaching gay sex. I realize you homophobes don’t want to acknowledge this is true but, it is. And little kids see it. They see a lot more than people like you give them credit for. They can even see when you are talking and acting like a bigot.

          • falling321

            I have no idea what school district YOU are in, but I can assure that most schools begin teaching about homosexuality in kindergarten now! They even have books such as “Sally Has Two Mommy’s” in order to facilitate the lessons. And by 9th grade they get very graphic! I have no problem at all with schools teaching the reproductive system during biology, but sex ed is NOT taught in biology and the “lessons” go so far as to have students practice putting condoms on banana’s…one teacher even demonstrated how to do this using your mouth and tongue! There is a massive difference between teaching our children about human biological functions in science class…what they are teaching in our schools is another thing altogether!

          • falling321

            The stats that “show” that these programs have been successful in reducing pregnancies are bogus! There is no way to know if the girl or boy is telling the truth about their pregnancy/abortion history. It HAS been proven that people lie…even on anonymous polls, particularly when questioned about their sex and reproductive history. If sex ed were reducing the number of teens having sex we would not be seeing millions of unborn babies being aborted every year. Nor would we be seeing the current sharp rise in the rate of STD’s and AIDS/HIV. I have no desire for my child’s school teacher to determine what is or is not age appropriate information about sex and reproduction. That is my job, my right as a parent. Schools could and perhaps should, offer these classes to parents, who could then determine what they want to share with their children. Then the teachers time would be freed up and perhaps they could get back to teaching the 3 R’s!

          • Jessica Sanchez

            I’m sorry. My post was for people who are not allergic to facts. Crawl back under your rock.

          • Jessica Sanchez

            I’m sorry. My post was for people who are not allergic to facts. Crawl back under your rock.

          • Jessica Sanchez

            I’m sorry. My post was for people who are not allergic to facts. Crawl back under your rock.

          • falling321

            The stats that “show” that these programs have been successful in reducing pregnancies are bogus! There is no way to know if the girl or boy is telling the truth about their pregnancy/abortion history. It HAS been proven that people lie…even on anonymous polls, particularly when questioned about their sex and reproductive history. If sex ed were reducing the number of teens having sex we would not be seeing millions of unborn babies being aborted every year. Nor would we be seeing the current sharp rise in the rate of STD’s and AIDS/HIV. I have no desire for my child’s school teacher to determine what is or is not age appropriate information about sex and reproduction. That is my job, my right as a parent. Schools could and perhaps should, offer these classes to parents, who could then determine what they want to share with their children. Then the teachers time would be freed up and perhaps they could get back to teaching the 3 R’s!

          • falling321

            The stats that “show” that these programs have been successful in reducing pregnancies are bogus! There is no way to know if the girl or boy is telling the truth about their pregnancy/abortion history. It HAS been proven that people lie…even on anonymous polls, particularly when questioned about their sex and reproductive history. If sex ed were reducing the number of teens having sex we would not be seeing millions of unborn babies being aborted every year. Nor would we be seeing the current sharp rise in the rate of STD’s and AIDS/HIV. I have no desire for my child’s school teacher to determine what is or is not age appropriate information about sex and reproduction. That is my job, my right as a parent. Schools could and perhaps should, offer these classes to parents, who could then determine what they want to share with their children. Then the teachers time would be freed up and perhaps they could get back to teaching the 3 R’s!

          • Jessica Sanchez

            You sound like a responsible dad.Congratulations on your great parenting job. It is a different and complex world out there for kids these days. They are under a lot of pressure and need better and more accurate information than any generation before them. A comprehensive sex ed program teachers students in very age appropriate ways. Sex is not taught to kindergarteners. Things like appropriate and non appropriate touching may be taught. Young children are abused by people they know. Sex ed helps to teach young kids what is and is not appropriate touching by people they may come in contact with. As children grew older they are taught more mature age appropriate material. Older children are taught about STDs. It may sound simple to you but, there is a lot of this material that parents probably are not up on.
            For instance, many younger teens believe oral sex is 100% safe. It is not. STDs can be passed even if neither the boy or the girl ever had intercourse. Do you know about those? Do you think that would be important information that your child should be educated about?

            Older kids are taught older age appropriate information. Regardless of how insistent parents may be that kids abstain from sex, they do not. These classes teach kids what they should know at their age. These programs have been extremely effective at reducing teen pregnancies as well as STDs.
            Many parents believe as you say you do, that sex ed should be taught in the home. The problem is that many of those same parents do not teach their children anything about sex ed. Then those kids go out and engage in activities that endanger their health their lives and impact the entire family. This is why sex ed has been mandated in most areas.
            Ignoring the real world is not an effective strategy to keep our kids safe.

          • MitchellSandlin

            Madam, you are free to have your beliefs and I am free to have mine. It is fine with me if you disagree with me.

            Teaching kindergarten age children sex is asinine. I sent my kids to school to learn to read, write and math, to learn the real American and World and State histories, to learn Geography.

            My wife and I raised 2 fine children and neither has been involved in an out of marriage pregnancy.

            I believe it is my job to teach my children how to act in public, to know the difference in right and wrong. A teacher should be like a doctor, do no wrong. Teachers should enforce fundamental right and wrong and leave raising the kids to the
            family.

          • MitchellSandlin

            Madam, you are free to have your beliefs and I am free to have mine. It is fine with me if you disagree with me.

            Teaching kindergarten age children sex is asinine. I sent my kids to school to learn to read, write and math, to learn the real American and World and State histories, to learn Geography.

            My wife and I raised 2 fine children and neither has been involved in an out of marriage pregnancy.

            I believe it is my job to teach my children how to act in public, to know the difference in right and wrong. A teacher should be like a doctor, do no wrong. Teachers should enforce fundamental right and wrong and leave raising the kids to the
            family.

          • Jessica Sanchez

            What sex ed sounds like and what it is are two very different things. Do you always make important decisions based on how things “sound”?

          • Jessica Sanchez

            What sex ed sounds like and what it is are two very different things. Do you always make important decisions based on how things “sound”?

          • MitchellSandlin

            I sleep just fine. Do the souls of the victims bother you at night. I do not feel sex courses should be taught in public schools.
            Comprehensive Sex ed sounds like you want to teach gay sex. I do not care what you do behind closed doors as long as it is consensual and both or all parties are of legal age.
            I do not want your feelinigs forced on me and mine.

          • MitchellSandlin

            I sleep just fine. Do the souls of the victims bother you at night. I do not feel sex courses should be taught in public schools.
            Comprehensive Sex ed sounds like you want to teach gay sex. I do not care what you do behind closed doors as long as it is consensual and both or all parties are of legal age.
            I do not want your feelinigs forced on me and mine.

          • Panors77

            So….now you’re equating the death penalty for an adult who committs murder to the aborting of an innocent unborn baby? Sorry……there’s no comparison. I DO support good sex ed in junior and senior high school….unlike you not so much for kindergardeners, where your side wants to indoctrinate young children into sex ed “early” and throw in the acceptance of homosexuality along with it.

          • Panors77

            So….now you’re equating the death penalty for an adult who committs murder to the aborting of an innocent unborn baby? Sorry……there’s no comparison. I DO support good sex ed in junior and senior high school….unlike you not so much for kindergardeners, where your side wants to indoctrinate young children into sex ed “early” and throw in the acceptance of homosexuality along with it.

          • Jessica Sanchez

            I’m sure your religion helps you sleep at night while condemning others to death when you know nothing about their circumstances. I’m sure you support comprehensive sex ed so our youth can do all they can to avoid unwanted pregnacies…. right?

          • Jessica Sanchez

            I’m sure your religion helps you sleep at night while condemning others to death when you know nothing about their circumstances. I’m sure you support comprehensive sex ed so our youth can do all they can to avoid unwanted pregnacies…. right?

        • MitchellSandlin

          RAPE IS JUSTIFICATION OF LEGAL EXECUTION AS IS MURDER, TREASON AND KIDNAPPING. I AGREE THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR ABORTION.
          I BELEIVE THE PEOPLE WHO DO THE ABOVE SHOULD BE
          HELPED TO MEET THEIR FINAL JUDGEMENT.

        • Waclaw Jerzy Borken-Hagen

          Not doable to play God at the fetus stage. Occasional (not trite) clean up of the gene pool is a different issue.
          It brings up other considerations about capital punishment.

        • Waclaw Jerzy Borken-Hagen

          Not doable to play God at the fetus stage. Occasional (not trite) clean up of the gene pool is a different issue.
          It brings up other considerations about capital punishment.

          • Miki M. Gain

            Capital punishment is the societal consequence for crimes deemed by the society to be worthy of the death penalty, such as murder in the first degree or treason during war time. It differs a great deal from an individual murdering another individual in that an individual does NOT have the right of life or death over any other individual. However, government authority DOES have the right, and even the duty, to carry out sentences against criminals for their crimes.

            Abortion is a case of one individual killing another individual, or using a third party to do it.

            Capital Punishment is a function of the state to enact justice against a criminal.

          • Miki M. Gain

            Capital punishment is the societal consequence for crimes deemed by the society to be worthy of the death penalty, such as murder in the first degree or treason during war time. It differs a great deal from an individual murdering another individual in that an individual does NOT have the right of life or death over any other individual. However, government authority DOES have the right, and even the duty, to carry out sentences against criminals for their crimes.

            Abortion is a case of one individual killing another individual, or using a third party to do it.

            Capital Punishment is a function of the state to enact justice against a criminal.

          • Miki M. Gain

            Capital punishment is the societal consequence for crimes deemed by the society to be worthy of the death penalty, such as murder in the first degree or treason during war time. It differs a great deal from an individual murdering another individual in that an individual does NOT have the right of life or death over any other individual. However, government authority DOES have the right, and even the duty, to carry out sentences against criminals for their crimes.

            Abortion is a case of one individual killing another individual, or using a third party to do it.

            Capital Punishment is a function of the state to enact justice against a criminal.

        • Waclaw Jerzy Borken-Hagen

          Not doable to play God at the fetus stage. Occasional (not trite) clean up of the gene pool is a different issue.
          It brings up other considerations about capital punishment.

        • http://Bravemind.blogspot.com Greg Bowman

          Well done, Miki!

        • http://Bravemind.blogspot.com Greg Bowman

          Well done, Miki!

        • Jennifer

          You don’t read much of the Old Testament, do you?

          • Miki M. Gain

            Please clarify just what you mean.

          • Jennifer

            My reply was to whoever said or implied that God never allows violence of any sort.

          • Miki M. Gain

            Ah ok. Yeah, that is a false doctrine. God obviously DOES allow violence in certain instances. BUT NOT the shedding of innocent blood.

            If you want to bring up the Israelites going in to the promised land and destroying whole towns including babies – God already ruled against those people as a whole culture. If the Israelites had not done what God instructed, those cultures would have been destroyed in another way just as completely.

          • Jennifer

            My reply was to whoever said or implied that God never allows violence of any sort.

          • Jennifer

            My reply was to whoever said or implied that God never allows violence of any sort.

          • Miki M. Gain

            Please clarify just what you mean.

      • Miki M. Gain

        EVERY life is precious – even those who do heinous things. That is why capitol punishment should NEVER be considered a trite thing.

        Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin – they all did very horrid things and they justly deserve punishment for them. As none of them repented of their evil before they died and accepted Jesus Christ as their savior, I do believe they will receive that punishment from God at the Great White Throne Judgement.

        The value of life an individual has in inherent. It has nothing to do with actions or attitudes. It has everything to do with their person-hood. If it were NOT inherent, then we could determine that anyone we didn’t like was not meriting life in our minds and easily justify their extermination … thus becoming the monster we so decry.

        The existence of evil in the hearts of people is no justification for murder. It is no justification for abortion.

      • Chris

        Stop. Being. Such. A. Douche.

      • Chris

        Stop. Being. Such. A. Douche.

      • Chris

        Stop. Being. Such. A. Douche.

      • Annabella

        Even their lives were precious in the eyes of God. He created them, didn’t he? They had mothers who loved them while in utero…perhaps fathers, grandparents, brothers and sisters… BUT they made personal choices that governed who they became. And the more evil choices that they made, the more evil they became as individuals, until God let them go the way of their choices.

      • Annabella

        Even their lives were precious in the eyes of God. He created them, didn’t he? They had mothers who loved them while in utero…perhaps fathers, grandparents, brothers and sisters… BUT they made personal choices that governed who they became. And the more evil choices that they made, the more evil they became as individuals, until God let them go the way of their choices.

      • Annabella

        Even their lives were precious in the eyes of God. He created them, didn’t he? They had mothers who loved them while in utero…perhaps fathers, grandparents, brothers and sisters… BUT they made personal choices that governed who they became. And the more evil choices that they made, the more evil they became as individuals, until God let them go the way of their choices.

    • tom cook

      Every life is precious? You are kidding, right? Do you ever think before you blurt out absurdity: Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot, Josef Stalin, all of the serial killers we’ve known about? No every life is certainly not precious.

  • http://www.sunnyshell.org Sunny Shell

    Thank you for this article. I like your SLED argument. It’s accurate and concise. May God help us wake it to the truth of what the word abort really means: to abruptly stop the development of life.

  • http://www.sunnyshell.org Sunny Shell

    Thank you for this article. I like your SLED argument. It’s accurate and concise. May God help us wake it to the truth of what the word abort really means: to abruptly stop the development of life.

    • http://Bravemind.blogspot.com Greg Bowman

      Amen, Sister

    • http://Bravemind.blogspot.com Greg Bowman

      Amen, Sister

  • http://www.sunnyshell.org Sunny Shell

    Thank you for this article. I like your SLED argument. It’s accurate and concise. May God help us wake it to the truth of what the word abort really means: to abruptly stop the development of life.

  • Traver S. Carlson

    Salutations Dr. Adams! Whilst at Summit Session Six of last year, I thought your pro-life arguments were brilliant and gave me comfort as my pro-life assertions transitioned to pro-life arguments. Now, reading a dialogue challenging the “rape-exception” was truly brilliant for two reasons. (1) The argumentation challenging the ethical foundation of the pro-choice position from personal experience and feeling dictating ethics to a form of consequentialism dictating ethics was wonderful as you exposed the holes in the individuals reasoning therefore demonstrating the reality of the possible moral tragedy to occur if said event did indeed occur. (2) Segway-ing from the initial logical praise is a more “human” praise. This instance lead an individual (hopefully, if he indeed took your advice) to a higher moral standing, and possibly his girlfriend too. There possibly were lives saved as well, and am sure that there are as other listeners/reader practice this argument. Thank you so much for posting this article and fighting for human life, and thence changing the lives of people for the better.

    Sincerely,

    Traver S. Carlson

  • Traver S. Carlson

    Salutations Dr. Adams! Whilst at Summit Session Six of last year, I thought your pro-life arguments were brilliant and gave me comfort as my pro-life assertions transitioned to pro-life arguments. Now, reading a dialogue challenging the “rape-exception” was truly brilliant for two reasons. (1) The argumentation challenging the ethical foundation of the pro-choice position from personal experience and feeling dictating ethics to a form of consequentialism dictating ethics was wonderful as you exposed the holes in the individuals reasoning therefore demonstrating the reality of the possible moral tragedy to occur if said event did indeed occur. (2) Segway-ing from the initial logical praise is a more “human” praise. This instance lead an individual (hopefully, if he indeed took your advice) to a higher moral standing, and possibly his girlfriend too. There possibly were lives saved as well, and am sure that there are as other listeners/reader practice this argument. Thank you so much for posting this article and fighting for human life, and thence changing the lives of people for the better.

    Sincerely,

    Traver S. Carlson

  • Traver S. Carlson

    Salutations Dr. Adams! Whilst at Summit Session Six of last year, I thought your pro-life arguments were brilliant and gave me comfort as my pro-life assertions transitioned to pro-life arguments. Now, reading a dialogue challenging the “rape-exception” was truly brilliant for two reasons. (1) The argumentation challenging the ethical foundation of the pro-choice position from personal experience and feeling dictating ethics to a form of consequentialism dictating ethics was wonderful as you exposed the holes in the individuals reasoning therefore demonstrating the reality of the possible moral tragedy to occur if said event did indeed occur. (2) Segway-ing from the initial logical praise is a more “human” praise. This instance lead an individual (hopefully, if he indeed took your advice) to a higher moral standing, and possibly his girlfriend too. There possibly were lives saved as well, and am sure that there are as other listeners/reader practice this argument. Thank you so much for posting this article and fighting for human life, and thence changing the lives of people for the better.

    Sincerely,

    Traver S. Carlson

  • txlady706

    Life should be the focus. Not death. The ideology of LIFE is whats missing now days.

  • sandraleesmith46

    Excellent presentation of the truth about abortion following rape. Far as I can see, or have seen over the years, only the abortion mills ever profit from abortions at all.

  • sandraleesmith46

    Excellent presentation of the truth about abortion following rape. Far as I can see, or have seen over the years, only the abortion mills ever profit from abortions at all.

  • Maxs Lady

    I used to be pro-choice as I didn’t think I had the right to tell another what to do but if we didn’t have the law consenting abortion there wouldn’t be nearly as many so I now am pro-life!!

  • Maxs Lady

    I used to be pro-choice as I didn’t think I had the right to tell another what to do but if we didn’t have the law consenting abortion there wouldn’t be nearly as many so I now am pro-life!!

  • $7872008

    Good article.

  • Reelman1946

    Roe vs Wade was/is a fraud…
    the street person claimed she was raped…
    after she won…said she just did not want the baby…
    and she has been Pro-Life for decades…oh, u didn;t know that?

    Also babies for adoption are in short supply so folks go overseas as the secular socialist party sacrament stopped 50 million+ heartbeats so far…

    life can not be fair or be free of a bad consequence as the utopian socialists desire…all the forms of birth control…we were told back when…would solve solve solve…instead, the fornication, the shacking up and the broken home dominate…no nation builds greatness upon that…morals matter…what percent of abortions are after a rape? 1%…

    • texasjo

      I know what you said to be true!

    • texasjo

      I know what you said to be true!

  • Mary555

    Mike, what a wonderful, powerful article. You have truly spoken the truth in love to this young man!

    • http://Bravemind.blogspot.com Greg Bowman

      Amen, Sister.

    • http://Bravemind.blogspot.com Greg Bowman

      Amen, Sister.

  • Mary555

    Mike, what a wonderful, powerful article. You have truly spoken the truth in love to this young man!

  • Mary555

    Mike, what a wonderful, powerful article. You have truly spoken the truth in love to this young man!

  • gmhunt4

    What happened to the doctors oath, “do not harm”…….isn’t murder “harm”????/

  • Bernard

    Excellent! I’m against abortion as a means of birth control, but I have often added, “except in the case of rape or incest.” The point of view provided in this article has made me determine that I will no longer include rape in my statement. I still have concerns when it comes to incest due to the very real potential of severe health problems and birth defects. But rape is now off the table.

    • Kelsey Arnold

      If you’re interested in research to back up the points made in this article, look up “Victims and Victors.” Pro-choicers claim it’s biased, but no one has yet risen to my requests for an opposing study.

    • Kelsey Arnold

      If you’re interested in research to back up the points made in this article, look up “Victims and Victors.” Pro-choicers claim it’s biased, but no one has yet risen to my requests for an opposing study.

    • Kelsey Arnold

      If you’re interested in research to back up the points made in this article, look up “Victims and Victors.” Pro-choicers claim it’s biased, but no one has yet risen to my requests for an opposing study.

  • Bernard

    Excellent! I’m against abortion as a means of birth control, but I have often added, “except in the case of rape or incest.” The point of view provided in this article has made me determine that I will no longer include rape in my statement. I still have concerns when it comes to incest due to the very real potential of severe health problems and birth defects. But rape is now off the table.

  • Bernard

    Excellent! I’m against abortion as a means of birth control, but I have often added, “except in the case of rape or incest.” The point of view provided in this article has made me determine that I will no longer include rape in my statement. I still have concerns when it comes to incest due to the very real potential of severe health problems and birth defects. But rape is now off the table.

  • tom cook

    This is probably the most cogent argument against abortion I have ever read. I’m still a Gosnell fan–he kept a bunch of little tykes off the street who would have grown up to be Trayvons and they might get some poor guy like George Zimmerman in trouble–better to put them in the freezer before they have the opporltunity.

    • $821192

      So what you’re saying is that you’re a racist jerk and so proud of the fact you want others to know it. It is idiots like you the world doesn’t need. U make one good case for abortion for xenophobic racist bigots.

    • $821192

      So what you’re saying is that you’re a racist jerk and so proud of the fact you want others to know it. It is idiots like you the world doesn’t need. U make one good case for abortion for xenophobic racist bigots.

    • FedupandReadytofight

      Although I don’t like “the little thugs running the streets”, and I agree that George Zimmerman is getting a raw deal,,,,,,

      What you just said? That is a pretty hateful thing to say.

    • SandyLester

      That is disgusting.

    • SandyLester

      That is disgusting.

    • SandyLester

      That is disgusting.

    • Curator

      I was with you for the first sentence, and appalled by your blatant racism and evil rationalizations after that, You are disgusting.

    • Curator

      I was with you for the first sentence, and appalled by your blatant racism and evil rationalizations after that, You are disgusting.

    • Curator

      I was with you for the first sentence, and appalled by your blatant racism and evil rationalizations after that, You are disgusting.

  • Edward C. Olivares, Sr.

    Bravo Dr. Adams! Well done and you have possibly saved two young people a lifetime of grief!

  • Edward C. Olivares, Sr.

    Bravo Dr. Adams! Well done and you have possibly saved two young people a lifetime of grief!

  • Edward C. Olivares, Sr.

    Bravo Dr. Adams! Well done and you have possibly saved two young people a lifetime of grief!

  • Ballistic45

    Rape and Incest make up less than 10% of reasons given by women for the 3000+ Babies killed every day in America… Interestingly over 90% of reasons given by women for having an Abortion is “Inconvenience” !!!! Inconvenience of timing, money, or just not wanting to be a mother… So at least 3000 kids were killed because they were seen as an INCONVENIENCE !!! Boy I hope this doesn’t catch on for the elderly, mentally and physically challenged and others….

  • Ballistic45

    Rape and Incest make up less than 10% of reasons given by women for the 3000+ Babies killed every day in America… Interestingly over 90% of reasons given by women for having an Abortion is “Inconvenience” !!!! Inconvenience of timing, money, or just not wanting to be a mother… So at least 3000 kids were killed because they were seen as an INCONVENIENCE !!! Boy I hope this doesn’t catch on for the elderly, mentally and physically challenged and others….

    • SandyLester

      The number is actually much higher. Even the PP internals (they do keep track) say 2% of abortions are for rape, incest and health (not life) of the mother.

      • Curator

        do you have references from planned parenthood for this? id like them so i can show some friends, im having a hard time finding anything but random blogs…

      • Curator

        do you have references from planned parenthood for this? id like them so i can show some friends, im having a hard time finding anything but random blogs…

        • SandyLester

          Let me see if I can find them again.

          If you go to PP web site, look through the internals, it is amazing what you can find, they actually do not hide anything or not much, especially their funding sources.

        • SandyLester

          Let me see if I can find them again.

          If you go to PP web site, look through the internals, it is amazing what you can find, they actually do not hide anything or not much, especially their funding sources.

        • SandyLester

          Let me see if I can find them again.

          If you go to PP web site, look through the internals, it is amazing what you can find, they actually do not hide anything or not much, especially their funding sources.

        • SandyLester

          I am very sorry, unable to find even the financials for PP.

          The site has become very sanitized of information.
          I made a huge mistake by not bookmarking the page, for future reference, at least I would have had the cache.
          Trying to go through my trash bucket to see if I can find the page.
          Again I apologize

        • SandyLester

          I am very sorry, unable to find even the financials for PP.

          The site has become very sanitized of information.
          I made a huge mistake by not bookmarking the page, for future reference, at least I would have had the cache.
          Trying to go through my trash bucket to see if I can find the page.
          Again I apologize

          • Curator

            its ok, thanks for checking.

          • Curator

            its ok, thanks for checking.

          • Curator

            its ok, thanks for checking.

          • Steven

            I don’t think bookmarking would have helped. You would have had to actually COPY the pages, because I suspect they have been REMOVED, not merely hidden.

          • Steven

            I don’t think bookmarking would have helped. You would have had to actually COPY the pages, because I suspect they have been REMOVED, not merely hidden.

          • SandyLester

            I fear you are correct.

            The information that was there was mind boggling……all of it.

            There are people in this world who are waking up.

            One of my friends whom I love dearly even thought she is just wrong,

            Came to me a few years ago, saying she woke up screaming in pain.

            She had encouraged her daughters (3) to get abortions, she realized to late of course that these where her grandchildren.

            She started a support group for grandmothers like her to STOP abortions.

            She just held me and cried over what she had done.

            My heart broke for her and the the aborted babes, they are of course in the Arms of Almighty God.

          • SandyLester

            I fear you are correct.

            The information that was there was mind boggling……all of it.

            There are people in this world who are waking up.

            One of my friends whom I love dearly even thought she is just wrong,

            Came to me a few years ago, saying she woke up screaming in pain.

            She had encouraged her daughters (3) to get abortions, she realized to late of course that these where her grandchildren.

            She started a support group for grandmothers like her to STOP abortions.

            She just held me and cried over what she had done.

            My heart broke for her and the the aborted babes, they are of course in the Arms of Almighty God.

          • SandyLester

            I fear you are correct.

            The information that was there was mind boggling……all of it.

            There are people in this world who are waking up.

            One of my friends whom I love dearly even thought she is just wrong,

            Came to me a few years ago, saying she woke up screaming in pain.

            She had encouraged her daughters (3) to get abortions, she realized to late of course that these where her grandchildren.

            She started a support group for grandmothers like her to STOP abortions.

            She just held me and cried over what she had done.

            My heart broke for her and the the aborted babes, they are of course in the Arms of Almighty God.

        • SandyLester

          I am very sorry, unable to find even the financials for PP.

          The site has become very sanitized of information.
          I made a huge mistake by not bookmarking the page, for future reference, at least I would have had the cache.
          Trying to go through my trash bucket to see if I can find the page.
          Again I apologize

        • http://Bravemind.blogspot.com Greg Bowman

          What exacting are you asking?

          • Curator

            I was just asking for links to the data that was being cited, to show some friends who have expressed interest in such data recently, as all i can find stating similar things are blogs now, I know ive read stuff in the past from various sources that did cite real confirmable statistics, and im trying to find it again.

          • Curator

            I was just asking for links to the data that was being cited, to show some friends who have expressed interest in such data recently, as all i can find stating similar things are blogs now, I know ive read stuff in the past from various sources that did cite real confirmable statistics, and im trying to find it again.

        • http://Bravemind.blogspot.com Greg Bowman

          What exacting are you asking?

        • Kelsey Arnold

          http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3711005.pdf

          The Guttmacher Institute is named after Alan Guttmacher, a former president of PP. Even they say that rape and incest account for an incredibly small number of abortions.

          • Curator

            thanks for the link!

          • Curator

            thanks for the link!

        • Kelsey Arnold

          http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3711005.pdf

          The Guttmacher Institute is named after Alan Guttmacher, a former president of PP. Even they say that rape and incest account for an incredibly small number of abortions.

        • Kelsey Arnold

          http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3711005.pdf

          The Guttmacher Institute is named after Alan Guttmacher, a former president of PP. Even they say that rape and incest account for an incredibly small number of abortions.

      • Curator

        do you have references from planned parenthood for this? id like them so i can show some friends, im having a hard time finding anything but random blogs…

      • http://Bravemind.blogspot.com Greg Bowman

        Ahhh. The sweet sound of factual truth.

    • http://Bravemind.blogspot.com Greg Bowman

      Amen

    • America:sbodilyautonomyFUCKYEA

      Female bodily autonomy matters. Deal with it, Mr. Eagleface. My body; my choice. You cannot legally force me to donate a kidney to support someone else’s life. You can’t do that for a fetus either. My choice. I can personally decide to end or continue a pregnancy. End of discussion.

    • America:sbodilyautonomyFUCKYEA

      Female bodily autonomy matters. Deal with it, Mr. Eagleface. My body; my choice. You cannot legally force me to donate a kidney to support someone else’s life. You can’t do that for a fetus either. My choice. I can personally decide to end or continue a pregnancy. End of discussion.

      • Ballistic45

        Your kidney comparison is idiotic… Because you choose not to contribute a kidney does not allow you to kill the person needing it…. YOU contributed to your own Pregnancy, YOU are not devoid of any responsibility in it.. You have a female body, LIVE WITH IT… Having a FEMALE Body does not give you the RIGHT to kill another human being who has just as much right to live as YOU DO and had NO HAND in creating itself, it is innocent of any wrong doing.. Watch an Ultra-Sound of an Abortion, watch the open mouth silent scream of a Baby being torn apart… You would be up in arms if a Baby Raping Killer were put to death in this manner sighting cruel and unusual punishment, but being a hypocrite you claim the RIGHT to kill an innocent child inhumanely because it is INCONVENIENT.. If you realize female body autonomy then keep your damn legs closed until you are responsible enough to deal with your decision to open them up to possible pregnancy…

      • Ballistic45

        Your kidney comparison is idiotic… Because you choose not to contribute a kidney does not allow you to kill the person needing it…. YOU contributed to your own Pregnancy, YOU are not devoid of any responsibility in it.. You have a female body, LIVE WITH IT… Having a FEMALE Body does not give you the RIGHT to kill another human being who has just as much right to live as YOU DO and had NO HAND in creating itself, it is innocent of any wrong doing.. Watch an Ultra-Sound of an Abortion, watch the open mouth silent scream of a Baby being torn apart… You would be up in arms if a Baby Raping Killer were put to death in this manner sighting cruel and unusual punishment, but being a hypocrite you claim the RIGHT to kill an innocent child inhumanely because it is INCONVENIENT.. If you realize female body autonomy then keep your damn legs closed until you are responsible enough to deal with your decision to open them up to possible pregnancy…

      • Ballistic45

        Your kidney comparison is idiotic… Because you choose not to contribute a kidney does not allow you to kill the person needing it…. YOU contributed to your own Pregnancy, YOU are not devoid of any responsibility in it.. You have a female body, LIVE WITH IT… Having a FEMALE Body does not give you the RIGHT to kill another human being who has just as much right to live as YOU DO and had NO HAND in creating itself, it is innocent of any wrong doing.. Watch an Ultra-Sound of an Abortion, watch the open mouth silent scream of a Baby being torn apart… You would be up in arms if a Baby Raping Killer were put to death in this manner sighting cruel and unusual punishment, but being a hypocrite you claim the RIGHT to kill an innocent child inhumanely because it is INCONVENIENT.. If you realize female body autonomy then keep your damn legs closed until you are responsible enough to deal with your decision to open them up to possible pregnancy…

    • America:sbodilyautonomyFUCKYEA

      Female bodily autonomy matters. Deal with it, Mr. Eagleface. My body; my choice. You cannot legally force me to donate a kidney to support someone else’s life. You can’t do that for a fetus either. My choice. I can personally decide to end or continue a pregnancy. End of discussion.

  • Ballistic45

    Rape and Incest make up less than 10% of reasons given by women for the 3000+ Babies killed every day in America… Interestingly over 90% of reasons given by women for having an Abortion is “Inconvenience” !!!! Inconvenience of timing, money, or just not wanting to be a mother… So at least 3000 kids were killed because they were seen as an INCONVENIENCE !!! Boy I hope this doesn’t catch on for the elderly, mentally and physically challenged and others….

  • jaxtom

    Rape is about power & the need to control the victim. If it is a woman & she is impregnated you are basically saying allow the rapist to force her to combine her genetic code with his to ensure his “seed” germinates. I doubt that the rapist actually is concerned about anything except themselves but this is what not allowing abortion after rape does – not to mention the physical changes & risks of the pregnancy itself to the victim. As stated there are various issues as to the baby’s placement after birth – adoption or adapt to the circumstances of conception. I think that the abortion option should be there but ALL the scenarios should be discussed with professional guidance available as part of the “post rape” medical care.

  • jaxtom

    Rape is about power & the need to control the victim. If it is a woman & she is impregnated you are basically saying allow the rapist to force her to combine her genetic code with his to ensure his “seed” germinates. I doubt that the rapist actually is concerned about anything except themselves but this is what not allowing abortion after rape does – not to mention the physical changes & risks of the pregnancy itself to the victim. As stated there are various issues as to the baby’s placement after birth – adoption or adapt to the circumstances of conception. I think that the abortion option should be there but ALL the scenarios should be discussed with professional guidance available as part of the “post rape” medical care.

  • jaxtom

    Rape is about power & the need to control the victim. If it is a woman & she is impregnated you are basically saying allow the rapist to force her to combine her genetic code with his to ensure his “seed” germinates. I doubt that the rapist actually is concerned about anything except themselves but this is what not allowing abortion after rape does – not to mention the physical changes & risks of the pregnancy itself to the victim. As stated there are various issues as to the baby’s placement after birth – adoption or adapt to the circumstances of conception. I think that the abortion option should be there but ALL the scenarios should be discussed with professional guidance available as part of the “post rape” medical care.

  • prolifebuttons.com

    THIS IS SO GREAT ON SO MANY LEVELS!

  • prolifebuttons.com

    THIS IS SO GREAT ON SO MANY LEVELS!

  • prolifebuttons.com

    THIS IS SO GREAT ON SO MANY LEVELS!

  • Reagan8084

    Forget about “an actual abortion”, the morning after pill must be discouraged as well. I was brutally beaten and raped in 2002 and, after enduring the needed rape kit, and drugged for the pain, I was given that evil drug. WITHOUT my consent, I might add. AND IT MADE ME STERILE. – Bet you anything that’s the last side effect listed, if it’s even listed at all. AND THIS IS THE DRUG LIBERALS WANT LITTLE GIRLS TO BE ABLE TO OBTAIN WITHOUT THE PERMISSION OF THEIR PARENTS/GUARDIANS, AND WITHOUT A PRESCRIPTION. How can this NOT be for pedophiles, as opposed to those little girls (as they “claim”)!?!?!? Seriously, what are the chances a little girl got pregnant having CONSENSUAL intercourse??? Only two kinds of people could even REMOTELY believe that: those who are ignorant/stupid, and those who are evil/criminal. NEITHER OF WHICH SHOULD BE WRITING ANY LAWS, ENFORCING THEM OR INTERPRETING THEM, PERIOD!!!!!!!!!! *closes eyes, hangs and shakes head, sighs* Just sayin’… :-(

    • Paladin

      I’m so sorry you had to go through that. :(

    • ort

      Me too. I am so sorry. ((((Hugs)))).

    • ort

      Me too. I am so sorry. ((((Hugs)))).

    • ort

      Me too. I am so sorry. ((((Hugs)))).

    • SandyLester

      My heart bleeds for your pain. I am so very sorry.

    • SandyLester

      My heart bleeds for your pain. I am so very sorry.

    • SandyLester

      My heart bleeds for your pain. I am so very sorry.

    • http://Bravemind.blogspot.com Greg Bowman

      Dear Reagan8084. On behalf of all righteous men everywhere, I am sorry for your pain. Thank you for having the strength to cut through the pain and fog to speak to the larger truth…. Killing unborn babies is not Gods Plan for anyone. It damages both the killer and the killed. It is just that basic. Thank you for giving us one more true story to add to the thousand silent voices that cry out form their graves. You are brave and true to come forward. God Bless you.

    • http://Bravemind.blogspot.com Greg Bowman

      Dear Reagan8084. On behalf of all righteous men everywhere, I am sorry for your pain. Thank you for having the strength to cut through the pain and fog to speak to the larger truth…. Killing unborn babies is not Gods Plan for anyone. It damages both the killer and the killed. It is just that basic. Thank you for giving us one more true story to add to the thousand silent voices that cry out form their graves. You are brave and true to come forward. God Bless you.

    • http://Bravemind.blogspot.com Greg Bowman

      Dear Reagan8084. On behalf of all righteous men everywhere, I am sorry for your pain. Thank you for having the strength to cut through the pain and fog to speak to the larger truth…. Killing unborn babies is not Gods Plan for anyone. It damages both the killer and the killed. It is just that basic. Thank you for giving us one more true story to add to the thousand silent voices that cry out form their graves. You are brave and true to come forward. God Bless you.

    • donchart

      I think you need to do more research. .. yes ,against yer will not acceptable … and what happened was terrible. … but the morning after pill is nothing but a strong dose of birth control and does not abort anything. .. it prevents ovulation. Did you actually have a gynecologist confirm this sterility from that pill or was it from the event itself (for which there has been tons of documented evidence)?? And the biggest reason that they made it available without parents permission is because of the amount of child beatings/abuse that was happening when the parents found out they were sexually active.

    • donchart

      I think you need to do more research. .. yes ,against yer will not acceptable … and what happened was terrible. … but the morning after pill is nothing but a strong dose of birth control and does not abort anything. .. it prevents ovulation. Did you actually have a gynecologist confirm this sterility from that pill or was it from the event itself (for which there has been tons of documented evidence)?? And the biggest reason that they made it available without parents permission is because of the amount of child beatings/abuse that was happening when the parents found out they were sexually active.

    • donchart

      I think you need to do more research. .. yes ,against yer will not acceptable … and what happened was terrible. … but the morning after pill is nothing but a strong dose of birth control and does not abort anything. .. it prevents ovulation. Did you actually have a gynecologist confirm this sterility from that pill or was it from the event itself (for which there has been tons of documented evidence)?? And the biggest reason that they made it available without parents permission is because of the amount of child beatings/abuse that was happening when the parents found out they were sexually active.

    • texasjo

      Thanks for sharing. You cannot read this in the news, that’s for sure. I’ve heard of this happening and the PP people get very upset if you mention it.

    • texasjo

      Thanks for sharing. You cannot read this in the news, that’s for sure. I’ve heard of this happening and the PP people get very upset if you mention it.

    • texasjo

      Thanks for sharing. You cannot read this in the news, that’s for sure. I’ve heard of this happening and the PP people get very upset if you mention it.

  • Reagan8084

    Forget about “an actual abortion”, the morning after pill must be discouraged as well. I was brutally beaten and raped in 2002 and, after enduring the needed rape kit, and drugged for the pain, I was given that evil drug. WITHOUT my consent, I might add. AND IT MADE ME STERILE. – Bet you anything that’s the last side effect listed, if it’s even listed at all. AND THIS IS THE DRUG LIBERALS WANT LITTLE GIRLS TO BE ABLE TO OBTAIN WITHOUT THE PERMISSION OF THEIR PARENTS/GUARDIANS, AND WITHOUT A PRESCRIPTION. How can this NOT be for pedophiles, as opposed to those little girls (as they “claim”)!?!?!? Seriously, what are the chances a little girl got pregnant having CONSENSUAL intercourse??? Only two kinds of people could even REMOTELY believe that: those who are ignorant/stupid, and those who are evil/criminal. NEITHER OF WHICH SHOULD BE WRITING ANY LAWS, ENFORCING THEM OR INTERPRETING THEM, PERIOD!!!!!!!!!! *closes eyes, hangs and shakes head, sighs* Just sayin’… :-(

  • Reagan8084

    Forget about “an actual abortion”, the morning after pill must be discouraged as well. I was brutally beaten and raped in 2002 and, after enduring the needed rape kit, and drugged for the pain, I was given that evil drug. WITHOUT my consent, I might add. AND IT MADE ME STERILE. – Bet you anything that’s the last side effect listed, if it’s even listed at all. AND THIS IS THE DRUG LIBERALS WANT LITTLE GIRLS TO BE ABLE TO OBTAIN WITHOUT THE PERMISSION OF THEIR PARENTS/GUARDIANS, AND WITHOUT A PRESCRIPTION. How can this NOT be for pedophiles, as opposed to those little girls (as they “claim”)!?!?!? Seriously, what are the chances a little girl got pregnant having CONSENSUAL intercourse??? Only two kinds of people could even REMOTELY believe that: those who are ignorant/stupid, and those who are evil/criminal. NEITHER OF WHICH SHOULD BE WRITING ANY LAWS, ENFORCING THEM OR INTERPRETING THEM, PERIOD!!!!!!!!!! *closes eyes, hangs and shakes head, sighs* Just sayin’… :-(

  • Frank W Brown

    I love it when I hear common sense in relation to anything, be it gun control or abortion!

  • Frank W Brown

    I love it when I hear common sense in relation to anything, be it gun control or abortion!

  • blair152

    I believe that’s also incest or to save the life of the mother. As Mr. Spock says: “It’s illogical.”

  • machodog

    HERE WE GO AGAIN…AN ARTICLE WRITTEN BY A MALE WHO HAS NO CLUE WHATSOEVER ABOUT PREGNANCY, ABORTION, AND RAPE. NOT A SINGLE CLUE…AND THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE FEMALE SIDING WITH THIS BLEEDING HEART ARE BRAINWASHED IDIOTS.

    Mike has never been pregnant or raped and guess what…HE NEVER WILL BE!! And those of you females siding with him have never been raped and are not the product of a rape…SO, YOU DON’T KNOW!!

    If you’ve never “been there or done that” shut the h ell up about it. Abortion is none of your business UNLESS you’re the one having one.

    • Miki M. Gain

      You are just wrong. Entirely.

    • Miki M. Gain

      You are just wrong. Entirely.

      • machodog

        If a man had the first baby of humanity and woman had the second baby…THERE’D NEVER BE A THIRD.

      • machodog

        If a man had the first baby of humanity and woman had the second baby…THERE’D NEVER BE A THIRD.

      • machodog

        If a man had the first baby of humanity and woman had the second baby…THERE’D NEVER BE A THIRD.

      • machodog

        You’re a demoncrat. Demoncrats, when they have no plausible arguement , tell us…”we’re just wrong”. That’s what we call an indefinite statement.

      • machodog

        You’re a demoncrat. Demoncrats, when they have no plausible arguement , tell us…”we’re just wrong”. That’s what we call an indefinite statement.

        • Miki M. Gain

          LOL and you know my political affiliation how?

          FYI – I’m not a democrat.

          • machodog

            Then you’re a RINO…no difference other than you’re a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

          • Miki M. Gain

            Nope, not even a Republican.

            BUT I think you are a leftist troll.

          • machodog

            “You’re just wrong. Entirely.” I’m the poster person for conservatives. I am so conservative that I make Rush Limbaugh look like a waffling RINO. You seem to forget that unlike demoncrats, conservatives and republicans do not have to swallow the partyline hook, line, and sinker.

          • machodog

            “You’re just wrong. Entirely.” I’m the poster person for conservatives. I am so conservative that I make Rush Limbaugh look like a waffling RINO. You seem to forget that unlike demoncrats, conservatives and republicans do not have to swallow the partyline hook, line, and sinker.

          • machodog

            “You’re just wrong. Entirely.” I’m the poster person for conservatives. I am so conservative that I make Rush Limbaugh look like a waffling RINO. You seem to forget that unlike demoncrats, conservatives and republicans do not have to swallow the partyline hook, line, and sinker.

          • Miki M. Gain

            Nope, not even a Republican.

            BUT I think you are a leftist troll.

          • Miki M. Gain

            Nope, not even a Republican.

            BUT I think you are a leftist troll.

          • Miki M. Gain

            I’m not even a republican. But I do think you are a troll.

          • Miki M. Gain

            I’m not even a republican. But I do think you are a troll.

        • Miki M. Gain

          LOL and you know my political affiliation how?

          FYI – I’m not a democrat.

        • Miki M. Gain

          LOL and you know my political affiliation how?

          FYI – I’m not a democrat.

      • machodog

        You’re a demoncrat. Demoncrats, when they have no plausible arguement , tell us…”we’re just wrong”. That’s what we call an indefinite statement.

    • Miki M. Gain

      You are just wrong. Entirely.

    • RegularJoe

      BY your logic, only men whose wives have cheated on them have a right to say whether it’s okay to beat a cheating wife. The rest of the world has no idea what they’re going through, after all. Should women not be allowed to voice an opinion on that issue? The question is ludicrous, as is your assertion that men have no right to a voice on this issue; we have all sorts of laws that are passed by people who have never done, and could never do, the thing that’s being made illegal. There’s nothing unusual about that.

      And it isn’t inconsistent with also offering massive emotional, mental health, and spiritual support and assistance — as well as financial and other tangible assistance — to the mother, as should be done for all crime victims. Neither would I judge a woman in that circumstance for WANTING an abortion; such a desire is understandable, even if I believe it is wrong.

      Rape is an almost incomprehensible evil. But so is taking an innocent human life. Why compound the tragedy of one, by inflicting the other?

      • machodog

        Ah, Joe. Once again in addressing your opinion, I would be trying to reason with someone who has never experienced nor will ever experience rape/pregnancy/abortion on any scale and who also could not be objectionable to the subject , therefor, I would have to label you as someone who doesn’t know what he’s talking about. There are many laws enacted by legislators who know nothing of what they’re talking about and now we have a society overburdened by senseless laws.

        • http://enria.org/ Garry

          You don’t have to murder someone to know it’s wrong, or even be a legislator and pass a law against it.

          • machodog

            I also know that men don’t have to leave women pregnant with a baby to know what pain and suffering that will cause the woman and the child for the rest of their lives, but a lot of men do it which in essence is the reason for millions of abortions for women who can’t or don’t want to raise a child(ren) by themselves. Why don’t you channel your energy into shaming and educating your fellow males of the evils of getting women pregnant and then leaving them which is the evil element instead of blaming the women each and every time??

          • http://enria.org/ Garry

            Not really sure where, from my comment, you got the idea that I exclusively blame women for anything. It takes 2 to tango, so to speak. The choice begins with having sex, not whether to kill the baby.
            I have 3 sons and 3 daughters, none of which have been forced to have babies they didn’t want. I practice what I preach. I am also the adoptive father to 1 boy and 2 girls and am active in raising them to know that there are consequences for every action. That’s both sexes, I’m not teaching the boy one thing and the girls another thing. Regardless, if one of the girls gets pregnant, or the boy makes a girl pregnant, I won’t be advising them to kill the baby. It’s not the baby’s fault for the parents mistake.

          • http://enria.org/ Garry

            Not really sure where, from my comment, you got the idea that I exclusively blame women for anything. It takes 2 to tango, so to speak. The choice begins with having sex, not whether to kill the baby.
            I have 3 sons and 3 daughters, none of which have been forced to have babies they didn’t want. I practice what I preach. I am also the adoptive father to 1 boy and 2 girls and am active in raising them to know that there are consequences for every action. That’s both sexes, I’m not teaching the boy one thing and the girls another thing. Regardless, if one of the girls gets pregnant, or the boy makes a girl pregnant, I won’t be advising them to kill the baby. It’s not the baby’s fault for the parents mistake.

          • http://enria.org/ Garry

            Not really sure where, from my comment, you got the idea that I exclusively blame women for anything. It takes 2 to tango, so to speak. The choice begins with having sex, not whether to kill the baby.
            I have 3 sons and 3 daughters, none of which have been forced to have babies they didn’t want. I practice what I preach. I am also the adoptive father to 1 boy and 2 girls and am active in raising them to know that there are consequences for every action. That’s both sexes, I’m not teaching the boy one thing and the girls another thing. Regardless, if one of the girls gets pregnant, or the boy makes a girl pregnant, I won’t be advising them to kill the baby. It’s not the baby’s fault for the parents mistake.

          • machodog

            I also know that men don’t have to leave women pregnant with a baby to know what pain and suffering that will cause the woman and the child for the rest of their lives, but a lot of men do it which in essence is the reason for millions of abortions for women who can’t or don’t want to raise a child(ren) by themselves. Why don’t you channel your energy into shaming and educating your fellow males of the evils of getting women pregnant and then leaving them which is the evil element instead of blaming the women each and every time??

          • machodog

            I also know that men don’t have to leave women pregnant with a baby to know what pain and suffering that will cause the woman and the child for the rest of their lives, but a lot of men do it which in essence is the reason for millions of abortions for women who can’t or don’t want to raise a child(ren) by themselves. Why don’t you channel your energy into shaming and educating your fellow males of the evils of getting women pregnant and then leaving them which is the evil element instead of blaming the women each and every time??

        • http://enria.org/ Garry

          You don’t have to murder someone to know it’s wrong, or even be a legislator and pass a law against it.

        • http://enria.org/ Garry

          You don’t have to murder someone to know it’s wrong, or even be a legislator and pass a law against it.

        • Curator

          are you saying men cant be raped? cause ive got news for you, thats bs, and i know it… cant get pregnant sure, but saying a male who cant get pregnant has no right to have a belief on the subject because of that, is the same as saying a woman who cant get pregnant, or hasnt been pregnant yet, or who has never gotten pregnant from rape, has no right to have an opinion on it… Do you see how illogical your statement is?

          What you are saying, is women who cant get pregnant have no right to a voice in this either.

          • machodog

            I didn’t say that you couldn’t have an opinion…I’m saying that if you’ve never been there done that…you have no say from experience and that you can’t honestly be objective.. Yeah, yeah…I know men can be raped.

          • Curator

            well you actually kind of did, or at least heavily implied it, but its good that you are clarifying a bit now.

            but logically that means you can’t either, neither can any woman who hasn’t been raped and become pregnant from it.

            So for the sake of argument, lets say you are entirely right, and nobody but women who have been raped and become pregnant from it can make the laws regarding this, You are aware the the majority keep the baby right? that there are countless women who have been through this and kept the baby or put it up for adoption? and that the vast majority who do get abortions report severe emotional distress over it, even decades later?

            So, although im not sure if I can honestly support it being made illegal for such cases, generally speaking, if they did make the rules, they would probably be stricter than they are now, and stricter than most even conservative individuals are calling for.

            Now i still believe you are wrong, as I dont think personal experience is the only thing that makes a person able to be objective, often it has the opposite effect, as they are to close to the issue at hand, breeding primarily subjective opinions, But I personally have counseled countless women who have both had children born of rape, aborted children conceived of rape, and given them up for adoption… and the ones in my, albeit limited experience, as i only did this for 5 years, that had the hardest time with their decisions? the ones who got abortions, more often than not, the guilt and turmoil over that is what they came to me for, so maybe i myself havent experienced it personally, but ive got the experiences of hundreds of women shared with me in a crisis counseling environment, and its led me to feeling through this experience, that abortion may not be the best option for most women, even if we aren’t talking about the rights of the child, and are concentrating strictly only on what is best for the woman in the long run.

            P.S. in case it wasnt clear, when I was a crisis counselor, it was not JUST for women in these kinds of situations, although most women who contacted me where dealing with rape or molestation, or other violence, abortion issues was about, at a guess, cause i didnt keep detailed records, maybe around 10%… but only once did I get a woman bringing up her child reminding her of the rape in a severely emotionally disturbing way, I felt the child could be in danger from what she was telling me, and helped get her connected with professionals who could help her, and the child went into foster care, and was adopted shortly later she tells me, by a family who lets her be involved with the childs life now that counseling has helped her deal with some of her emotional pain and PTSD.

          • Curator

            well you actually kind of did, or at least heavily implied it, but its good that you are clarifying a bit now.

            but logically that means you can’t either, neither can any woman who hasn’t been raped and become pregnant from it.

            So for the sake of argument, lets say you are entirely right, and nobody but women who have been raped and become pregnant from it can make the laws regarding this, You are aware the the majority keep the baby right? that there are countless women who have been through this and kept the baby or put it up for adoption? and that the vast majority who do get abortions report severe emotional distress over it, even decades later?

            So, although im not sure if I can honestly support it being made illegal for such cases, generally speaking, if they did make the rules, they would probably be stricter than they are now, and stricter than most even conservative individuals are calling for.

            Now i still believe you are wrong, as I dont think personal experience is the only thing that makes a person able to be objective, often it has the opposite effect, as they are to close to the issue at hand, breeding primarily subjective opinions, But I personally have counseled countless women who have both had children born of rape, aborted children conceived of rape, and given them up for adoption… and the ones in my, albeit limited experience, as i only did this for 5 years, that had the hardest time with their decisions? the ones who got abortions, more often than not, the guilt and turmoil over that is what they came to me for, so maybe i myself havent experienced it personally, but ive got the experiences of hundreds of women shared with me in a crisis counseling environment, and its led me to feeling through this experience, that abortion may not be the best option for most women, even if we aren’t talking about the rights of the child, and are concentrating strictly only on what is best for the woman in the long run.

            P.S. in case it wasnt clear, when I was a crisis counselor, it was not JUST for women in these kinds of situations, although most women who contacted me where dealing with rape or molestation, or other violence, abortion issues was about, at a guess, cause i didnt keep detailed records, maybe around 10%… but only once did I get a woman bringing up her child reminding her of the rape in a severely emotionally disturbing way, I felt the child could be in danger from what she was telling me, and helped get her connected with professionals who could help her, and the child went into foster care, and was adopted shortly later she tells me, by a family who lets her be involved with the childs life now that counseling has helped her deal with some of her emotional pain and PTSD.

          • machodog

            This will be my last post on this never-ending subject.

            First, when you let the government make laws on morals in your lives, it doesn’t know when to quit. It will eventually overstep its bounds and make laws on things you don’t want. I stand by what I say…it’s the woman’s decision, not the government, not yours not mine.

            Secondly, if the government outlaws abortion, your daughters will go to back-alley butchers…is that something you think you would want for her? Believe me; “trusting that she would confide in you” is nothing but a pipe dream.

            …and thirdly. There have been millions upon millions of abortions. If abortions had been outlawed, there would be massive amounts of babies in massive amounts of special housings for them. There would be millions upon millions of adoptable babies out there waiting to be adopted. Right now there are only thousands waiting adoption. Not even half are being adopted.

            HOW MANY OF YOU PEOPLE OUT THERE ARE READY TO ADOPT BABIES? HOW ABOUT MULTIPLE BABIES? CRACK BABIES? RETARDED BABIES? DEFORMED BABIES? IF YOU’RE ALL SOOOOO AGAINST ABORTION THEN OWN UP TO WHAT THE END RESULTS WILL BE.

          • repukelicanssuck

            You’re preaching to the choir! These FAR RT WING zealots that believe they are a Moral Majority are neither! These hillbilly, bible clinging, gun praising Neanderthals are clueless. This is ONE reason why America will turn away from the Republicans. Keep religion out of politics and keep your views on what is moral the hell out of our lives. Next President? Hillary Clinton only because of the outlandish, faux-puritanical position of the American Taliban!

          • Curator

            First, id like to point out that everything you have said in reply to me is whats known as a straw man argument, because its not actually related to anything I have said.

            Did i say I want it outlawed? Nope, for some of the same reasons you list, although some of those same reasons could be used as reasons TO outlaw, I dont personally find myself interested in debating legally outlawing or legally condoning it, because its way to messy of a subject with way to many issues on both sides.

            secondly, what you say about adoptions is patently false, there are not millions of adoptable babies waiting to be adopted, there ARE millions of parents on waiting lists to adopt babies, the primary issue with those still in the system, are that they are all older children, healthy babies are ALWAYS adopted out, you will not find a single one languishing in the system waiting for somebody to pick it up, that only happens with older children, fact check please before such outlandish statements.

            Now If i do argue your point, that there would be millions of more babies, what makes you think people wouldnt be more responsible with birth control if they knew abortion wasnt an option? there has been a statistical increase in pregnancy rates since abortion was legalized.

            I will reiterate that im not actually arguing for or against legalization, only trying to show you the holes in your logic, because your arguments will not persuade anyone if they continue to be constructed in such manner.

            P.S. most abortions are performed for people more well off, where as poor people are more likely to keep the children, so technically speaking the chances of crack babies increasing would be unlikely, secondly retarded babies, and deformed babies make up an incredibly small percentage of babies born, which unfortunately, yes, are much less likely to be adopted, but the entire argument for it being legal is pro MOTHER, what they believe to be best for the mother and HER choice, you cant argue on one hand that only what the mother wants matters, then on the other try to make it sound like it would be horrible for these poor statistically miniscule amounts of babies… Statistically, there is a higher chance a woman who has had an abortion will attempt suicide, than that a woman will give birth to a severely mentally disabled or deformed child, So strictly just based on your own arguments, its statistically far worse for the mother, whom the current laws are supposed to be for, and whom your entire argument hinges upon.

            In the end, I think the only thing that will solve both sides of this dilemma, is going to be a major change to the system and society we live in, id go into more detail, but its obvious its not something you are interested in, helping both mothers AND babies, so Id rather not waste the effort, if i am wrong though and you are interested, we can continue the discussion, but lets keep things a bit more forthright and on topic.

          • Curator

            First, id like to point out that everything you have said in reply to me is whats known as a straw man argument, because its not actually related to anything I have said.

            Did i say I want it outlawed? Nope, for some of the same reasons you list, although some of those same reasons could be used as reasons TO outlaw, I dont personally find myself interested in debating legally outlawing or legally condoning it, because its way to messy of a subject with way to many issues on both sides.

            secondly, what you say about adoptions is patently false, there are not millions of adoptable babies waiting to be adopted, there ARE millions of parents on waiting lists to adopt babies, the primary issue with those still in the system, are that they are all older children, healthy babies are ALWAYS adopted out, you will not find a single one languishing in the system waiting for somebody to pick it up, that only happens with older children, fact check please before such outlandish statements.

            Now If i do argue your point, that there would be millions of more babies, what makes you think people wouldnt be more responsible with birth control if they knew abortion wasnt an option? there has been a statistical increase in pregnancy rates since abortion was legalized.

            I will reiterate that im not actually arguing for or against legalization, only trying to show you the holes in your logic, because your arguments will not persuade anyone if they continue to be constructed in such manner.

            P.S. most abortions are performed for people more well off, where as poor people are more likely to keep the children, so technically speaking the chances of crack babies increasing would be unlikely, secondly retarded babies, and deformed babies make up an incredibly small percentage of babies born, which unfortunately, yes, are much less likely to be adopted, but the entire argument for it being legal is pro MOTHER, what they believe to be best for the mother and HER choice, you cant argue on one hand that only what the mother wants matters, then on the other try to make it sound like it would be horrible for these poor statistically miniscule amounts of babies… Statistically, there is a higher chance a woman who has had an abortion will attempt suicide, than that a woman will give birth to a severely mentally disabled or deformed child, So strictly just based on your own arguments, its statistically far worse for the mother, whom the current laws are supposed to be for, and whom your entire argument hinges upon.

            In the end, I think the only thing that will solve both sides of this dilemma, is going to be a major change to the system and society we live in, id go into more detail, but its obvious its not something you are interested in, helping both mothers AND babies, so Id rather not waste the effort, if i am wrong though and you are interested, we can continue the discussion, but lets keep things a bit more forthright and on topic.

          • Curator

            First, id like to point out that everything you have said in reply to me is whats known as a straw man argument, because its not actually related to anything I have said.

            Did i say I want it outlawed? Nope, for some of the same reasons you list, although some of those same reasons could be used as reasons TO outlaw, I dont personally find myself interested in debating legally outlawing or legally condoning it, because its way to messy of a subject with way to many issues on both sides.

            secondly, what you say about adoptions is patently false, there are not millions of adoptable babies waiting to be adopted, there ARE millions of parents on waiting lists to adopt babies, the primary issue with those still in the system, are that they are all older children, healthy babies are ALWAYS adopted out, you will not find a single one languishing in the system waiting for somebody to pick it up, that only happens with older children, fact check please before such outlandish statements.

            Now If i do argue your point, that there would be millions of more babies, what makes you think people wouldnt be more responsible with birth control if they knew abortion wasnt an option? there has been a statistical increase in pregnancy rates since abortion was legalized.

            I will reiterate that im not actually arguing for or against legalization, only trying to show you the holes in your logic, because your arguments will not persuade anyone if they continue to be constructed in such manner.

            P.S. most abortions are performed for people more well off, where as poor people are more likely to keep the children, so technically speaking the chances of crack babies increasing would be unlikely, secondly retarded babies, and deformed babies make up an incredibly small percentage of babies born, which unfortunately, yes, are much less likely to be adopted, but the entire argument for it being legal is pro MOTHER, what they believe to be best for the mother and HER choice, you cant argue on one hand that only what the mother wants matters, then on the other try to make it sound like it would be horrible for these poor statistically miniscule amounts of babies… Statistically, there is a higher chance a woman who has had an abortion will attempt suicide, than that a woman will give birth to a severely mentally disabled or deformed child, So strictly just based on your own arguments, its statistically far worse for the mother, whom the current laws are supposed to be for, and whom your entire argument hinges upon.

            In the end, I think the only thing that will solve both sides of this dilemma, is going to be a major change to the system and society we live in, id go into more detail, but its obvious its not something you are interested in, helping both mothers AND babies, so Id rather not waste the effort, if i am wrong though and you are interested, we can continue the discussion, but lets keep things a bit more forthright and on topic.

          • machodog

            This will be my last post on this never-ending subject.

            First, when you let the government make laws on morals in your lives, it doesn’t know when to quit. It will eventually overstep its bounds and make laws on things you don’t want. I stand by what I say…it’s the woman’s decision, not the government, not yours not mine.

            Secondly, if the government outlaws abortion, your daughters will go to back-alley butchers…is that something you think you would want for her? Believe me; “trusting that she would confide in you” is nothing but a pipe dream.

            …and thirdly. There have been millions upon millions of abortions. If abortions had been outlawed, there would be massive amounts of babies in massive amounts of special housings for them. There would be millions upon millions of adoptable babies out there waiting to be adopted. Right now there are only thousands waiting adoption. Not even half are being adopted.

            HOW MANY OF YOU PEOPLE OUT THERE ARE READY TO ADOPT BABIES? HOW ABOUT MULTIPLE BABIES? CRACK BABIES? RETARDED BABIES? DEFORMED BABIES? IF YOU’RE ALL SOOOOO AGAINST ABORTION THEN OWN UP TO WHAT THE END RESULTS WILL BE.

          • machodog

            This will be my last post on this never-ending subject.

            First, when you let the government make laws on morals in your lives, it doesn’t know when to quit. It will eventually overstep its bounds and make laws on things you don’t want. I stand by what I say…it’s the woman’s decision, not the government, not yours not mine.

            Secondly, if the government outlaws abortion, your daughters will go to back-alley butchers…is that something you think you would want for her? Believe me; “trusting that she would confide in you” is nothing but a pipe dream.

            …and thirdly. There have been millions upon millions of abortions. If abortions had been outlawed, there would be massive amounts of babies in massive amounts of special housings for them. There would be millions upon millions of adoptable babies out there waiting to be adopted. Right now there are only thousands waiting adoption. Not even half are being adopted.

            HOW MANY OF YOU PEOPLE OUT THERE ARE READY TO ADOPT BABIES? HOW ABOUT MULTIPLE BABIES? CRACK BABIES? RETARDED BABIES? DEFORMED BABIES? IF YOU’RE ALL SOOOOO AGAINST ABORTION THEN OWN UP TO WHAT THE END RESULTS WILL BE.

          • Curator

            well you actually kind of did, or at least heavily implied it, but its good that you are clarifying a bit now.

            but logically that means you can’t either, neither can any woman who hasn’t been raped and become pregnant from it.

            So for the sake of argument, lets say you are entirely right, and nobody but women who have been raped and become pregnant from it can make the laws regarding this, You are aware the the majority keep the baby right? that there are countless women who have been through this and kept the baby or put it up for adoption? and that the vast majority who do get abortions report severe emotional distress over it, even decades later?

            So, although im not sure if I can honestly support it being made illegal for such cases, generally speaking, if they did make the rules, they would probably be stricter than they are now, and stricter than most even conservative individuals are calling for.

            Now i still believe you are wrong, as I dont think personal experience is the only thing that makes a person able to be objective, often it has the opposite effect, as they are to close to the issue at hand, breeding primarily subjective opinions, But I personally have counseled countless women who have both had children born of rape, aborted children conceived of rape, and given them up for adoption… and the ones in my, albeit limited experience, as i only did this for 5 years, that had the hardest time with their decisions? the ones who got abortions, more often than not, the guilt and turmoil over that is what they came to me for, so maybe i myself havent experienced it personally, but ive got the experiences of hundreds of women shared with me in a crisis counseling environment, and its led me to feeling through this experience, that abortion may not be the best option for most women, even if we aren’t talking about the rights of the child, and are concentrating strictly only on what is best for the woman in the long run.

            P.S. in case it wasnt clear, when I was a crisis counselor, it was not JUST for women in these kinds of situations, although most women who contacted me where dealing with rape or molestation, or other violence, abortion issues was about, at a guess, cause i didnt keep detailed records, maybe around 10%… but only once did I get a woman bringing up her child reminding her of the rape in a severely emotionally disturbing way, I felt the child could be in danger from what she was telling me, and helped get her connected with professionals who could help her, and the child went into foster care, and was adopted shortly later she tells me, by a family who lets her be involved with the childs life now that counseling has helped her deal with some of her emotional pain and PTSD.

          • machodog

            I didn’t say that you couldn’t have an opinion…I’m saying that if you’ve never been there done that…you have no say from experience and that you can’t honestly be objective.. Yeah, yeah…I know men can be raped.

        • Curator

          are you saying men cant be raped? cause ive got news for you, thats bs, and i know it… cant get pregnant sure, but saying a male who cant get pregnant has no right to have a belief on the subject because of that, is the same as saying a woman who cant get pregnant, or hasnt been pregnant yet, or who has never gotten pregnant from rape, has no right to have an opinion on it… Do you see how illogical your statement is?

          What you are saying, is women who cant get pregnant have no right to a voice in this either.

        • Curator

          are you saying men cant be raped? cause ive got news for you, thats bs, and i know it… cant get pregnant sure, but saying a male who cant get pregnant has no right to have a belief on the subject because of that, is the same as saying a woman who cant get pregnant, or hasnt been pregnant yet, or who has never gotten pregnant from rape, has no right to have an opinion on it… Do you see how illogical your statement is?

          What you are saying, is women who cant get pregnant have no right to a voice in this either.

        • GinoMan

          Apparently MachoDog, you have never heard of the genetic fallacy. A common logical fallacy wherein you dismiss an idea because of the qualifications or merits of the arguer rather than the merits of the idea itself. You keep dismissing both the author of this article and here “RegularJoe” because they’re male, (how misandronistic!) rather than the merits of their position. Actually make an argument, not a fallacy.

        • GinoMan

          Apparently MachoDog, you have never heard of the genetic fallacy. A common logical fallacy wherein you dismiss an idea because of the qualifications or merits of the arguer rather than the merits of the idea itself. You keep dismissing both the author of this article and here “RegularJoe” because they’re male, (how misandronistic!) rather than the merits of their position. Actually make an argument, not a fallacy.

        • GinoMan

          Apparently MachoDog, you have never heard of the genetic fallacy. A common logical fallacy wherein you dismiss an idea because of the qualifications or merits of the arguer rather than the merits of the idea itself. You keep dismissing both the author of this article and here “RegularJoe” because they’re male, (how misandronistic!) rather than the merits of their position. Actually make an argument, not a fallacy.

      • machodog

        Ah, Joe. Once again in addressing your opinion, I would be trying to reason with someone who has never experienced nor will ever experience rape/pregnancy/abortion on any scale and who also could not be objectionable to the subject , therefor, I would have to label you as someone who doesn’t know what he’s talking about. There are many laws enacted by legislators who know nothing of what they’re talking about and now we have a society overburdened by senseless laws.

      • machodog

        Ah, Joe. Once again in addressing your opinion, I would be trying to reason with someone who has never experienced nor will ever experience rape/pregnancy/abortion on any scale and who also could not be objectionable to the subject , therefor, I would have to label you as someone who doesn’t know what he’s talking about. There are many laws enacted by legislators who know nothing of what they’re talking about and now we have a society overburdened by senseless laws.

    • RegularJoe

      BY your logic, only men whose wives have cheated on them have a right to say whether it’s okay to beat a cheating wife. The rest of the world has no idea what they’re going through, after all. Should women not be allowed to voice an opinion on that issue? The question is ludicrous, as is your assertion that men have no right to a voice on this issue; we have all sorts of laws that are passed by people who have never done, and could never do, the thing that’s being made illegal. There’s nothing unusual about that.

      And it isn’t inconsistent with also offering massive emotional, mental health, and spiritual support and assistance — as well as financial and other tangible assistance — to the mother, as should be done for all crime victims. Neither would I judge a woman in that circumstance for WANTING an abortion; such a desire is understandable, even if I believe it is wrong.

      Rape is an almost incomprehensible evil. But so is taking an innocent human life. Why compound the tragedy of one, by inflicting the other?

    • RegularJoe

      BY your logic, only men whose wives have cheated on them have a right to say whether it’s okay to beat a cheating wife. The rest of the world has no idea what they’re going through, after all. Should women not be allowed to voice an opinion on that issue? The question is ludicrous, as is your assertion that men have no right to a voice on this issue; we have all sorts of laws that are passed by people who have never done, and could never do, the thing that’s being made illegal. There’s nothing unusual about that.

      And it isn’t inconsistent with also offering massive emotional, mental health, and spiritual support and assistance — as well as financial and other tangible assistance — to the mother, as should be done for all crime victims. Neither would I judge a woman in that circumstance for WANTING an abortion; such a desire is understandable, even if I believe it is wrong.

      Rape is an almost incomprehensible evil. But so is taking an innocent human life. Why compound the tragedy of one, by inflicting the other?

    • diverjimk

      Abortion is no less our business than it should be our business if the live, delivered baby is tossed in a dumpster, right? Why not let the mother have the right to make the decision of keeping the baby for 6 months or a year after it’s born, just to see if she can handle raising the little guy? Stupid idea, eh? No more stupid than aborting the baby before normal delivery.

      Two weeks before normal delivery or 2 weeks after normal delivery, what’s the difference? The baby is no more viable at 2 weeks old than he was 2 weeks before birth.

      • machodog

        I DO NOT ADVOCATE ABORTION. I THINK IT IS HORRIBLE!! IT’S NOT FOR ME. But if the woman next door wants an abortion…IT IS HER DECISION…not yours not mine. SHE has to contend with God further down the road…not you not me. It is her conscience. It’s not up to me or you to tell her she can’t have one anymore than it is for me to tell you you can’t masturbate because THEN you’re killing babies by the millions…which moves on to the next debate of when life starts. I figure if it can move on its own…it’s alive.

      • machodog

        I DO NOT ADVOCATE ABORTION. I THINK IT IS HORRIBLE!! IT’S NOT FOR ME. But if the woman next door wants an abortion…IT IS HER DECISION…not yours not mine. SHE has to contend with God further down the road…not you not me. It is her conscience. It’s not up to me or you to tell her she can’t have one anymore than it is for me to tell you you can’t masturbate because THEN you’re killing babies by the millions…which moves on to the next debate of when life starts. I figure if it can move on its own…it’s alive.

    • diverjimk

      Abortion is no less our business than it should be our business if the live, delivered baby is tossed in a dumpster, right? Why not let the mother have the right to make the decision of keeping the baby for 6 months or a year after it’s born, just to see if she can handle raising the little guy? Stupid idea, eh? No more stupid than aborting the baby before normal delivery.

      Two weeks before normal delivery or 2 weeks after normal delivery, what’s the difference? The baby is no more viable at 2 weeks old than he was 2 weeks before birth.

    • diverjimk

      Abortion is no less our business than it should be our business if the live, delivered baby is tossed in a dumpster, right? Why not let the mother have the right to make the decision of keeping the baby for 6 months or a year after it’s born, just to see if she can handle raising the little guy? Stupid idea, eh? No more stupid than aborting the baby before normal delivery.

      Two weeks before normal delivery or 2 weeks after normal delivery, what’s the difference? The baby is no more viable at 2 weeks old than he was 2 weeks before birth.

  • machodog

    HERE WE GO AGAIN…AN ARTICLE WRITTEN BY A MALE WHO HAS NO CLUE WHATSOEVER ABOUT PREGNANCY, ABORTION, AND RAPE. NOT A SINGLE CLUE…AND THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE FEMALE SIDING WITH THIS BLEEDING HEART ARE BRAINWASHED IDIOTS.

    Mike has never been pregnant or raped and guess what…HE NEVER WILL BE!! And those of you females siding with him have never been raped and are not the product of a rape…SO, YOU DON’T KNOW!!

    If you’ve never “been there or done that” shut the h ell up about it. Abortion is none of your business UNLESS you’re the one having one.

  • machodog

    HERE WE GO AGAIN…AN ARTICLE WRITTEN BY A MALE WHO HAS NO CLUE WHATSOEVER ABOUT PREGNANCY, ABORTION, AND RAPE. NOT A SINGLE CLUE…AND THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE FEMALE SIDING WITH THIS BLEEDING HEART ARE BRAINWASHED IDIOTS.

    Mike has never been pregnant or raped and guess what…HE NEVER WILL BE!! And those of you females siding with him have never been raped and are not the product of a rape…SO, YOU DON’T KNOW!!

    If you’ve never “been there or done that” shut the h ell up about it. Abortion is none of your business UNLESS you’re the one having one.

  • SandyLester

    Very nice.

  • SandyLester

    Very nice.

  • SandyLester

    Very nice.

  • speedle24

    Sorry folks, this is where I get off the boat. I have contributed a lot of money to tea party organizations that stay the hell away from this subject. Leave it alone. I understand some think that an abortion under any circumstances is murder. If that is the case then under certain circumstances (rape) murder should be legal within a given time period. This problem will not be solved with simply solutions as suggested in this article. Hell, it makes me mad and I’m not even “pro choice”.

  • speedle24

    Sorry folks, this is where I get off the boat. I have contributed a lot of money to tea party organizations that stay the hell away from this subject. Leave it alone. I understand some think that an abortion under any circumstances is murder. If that is the case then under certain circumstances (rape) murder should be legal within a given time period. This problem will not be solved with simply solutions as suggested in this article. Hell, it makes me mad and I’m not even “pro choice”.

    • Curator

      im kinda on the fence honestly between you’re opinion and the articles, and have been for years, Its not as clear cut to me as they state, but at the same time, It feels wrong to hold an innocent life accountable for the fathers actions, but I can entirely understand why one would feel that way, and am not sure what id choose if faced with such a situation and such conflicting emotions, id like to say i wouldnt get an abortion, but Im not sure if thats true, i have to admit its possible i would, or at least would seriously consider it.

      I dont think it would be a simple decision for almost anyone if they found themselves in such a situation.

    • Curator

      im kinda on the fence honestly between you’re opinion and the articles, and have been for years, Its not as clear cut to me as they state, but at the same time, It feels wrong to hold an innocent life accountable for the fathers actions, but I can entirely understand why one would feel that way, and am not sure what id choose if faced with such a situation and such conflicting emotions, id like to say i wouldnt get an abortion, but Im not sure if thats true, i have to admit its possible i would, or at least would seriously consider it.

      I dont think it would be a simple decision for almost anyone if they found themselves in such a situation.

    • Curator

      im kinda on the fence honestly between you’re opinion and the articles, and have been for years, Its not as clear cut to me as they state, but at the same time, It feels wrong to hold an innocent life accountable for the fathers actions, but I can entirely understand why one would feel that way, and am not sure what id choose if faced with such a situation and such conflicting emotions, id like to say i wouldnt get an abortion, but Im not sure if thats true, i have to admit its possible i would, or at least would seriously consider it.

      I dont think it would be a simple decision for almost anyone if they found themselves in such a situation.

  • speedle24

    Sorry folks, this is where I get off the boat. I have contributed a lot of money to tea party organizations that stay the hell away from this subject. Leave it alone. I understand some think that an abortion under any circumstances is murder. If that is the case then under certain circumstances (rape) murder should be legal within a given time period. This problem will not be solved with simply solutions as suggested in this article. Hell, it makes me mad and I’m not even “pro choice”.

  • concerned

    It has been suggested by some that our society started its rapid slide to degeneration when we began showing less and less respect for life. There may be some good reasons to have an abortion, but when we begin to have respect for life again, life at all stages, we will begin to see our society slowly raise out of the terrible conditions that we see around us. I am not sure what it will take or how long, but I look forward to the time when each person is treated with respect.

  • concerned

    It has been suggested by some that our society started its rapid slide to degeneration when we began showing less and less respect for life. There may be some good reasons to have an abortion, but when we begin to have respect for life again, life at all stages, we will begin to see our society slowly raise out of the terrible conditions that we see around us. I am not sure what it will take or how long, but I look forward to the time when each person is treated with respect.

  • concerned

    It has been suggested by some that our society started its rapid slide to degeneration when we began showing less and less respect for life. There may be some good reasons to have an abortion, but when we begin to have respect for life again, life at all stages, we will begin to see our society slowly raise out of the terrible conditions that we see around us. I am not sure what it will take or how long, but I look forward to the time when each person is treated with respect.

  • Tim Lerch

    My best friends grandmother was the product of a rape, the world would not be the same without her and her offspring, they are the nicest people I have ever met. The family could have been ended before it had a chance to start but she just couldn’t end any life. The child conceived in such an awful way is totally innocent and can lead to much good. It took me a while to understand but having lived the situation even as an outsider helps me to see what is the difficult, but right thing to do.

  • Tim Lerch

    My best friends grandmother was the product of a rape, the world would not be the same without her and her offspring, they are the nicest people I have ever met. The family could have been ended before it had a chance to start but she just couldn’t end any life. The child conceived in such an awful way is totally innocent and can lead to much good. It took me a while to understand but having lived the situation even as an outsider helps me to see what is the difficult, but right thing to do.

    • http://Bravemind.blogspot.com Greg Bowman

      Amen.

    • http://Bravemind.blogspot.com Greg Bowman

      Amen.

  • John Doe

    I married my wife 4 years ago. Before she met me she went on a date with the wrong guy, and she was raped. I’m thankful every day that she didn’t abort our beautiful daughter, I adopted her in February of 2012 and I couldn’t imagine life without her. Two wrongs don’t end up making a right in every circumstance.

  • hankrbradley

    I was adopted in to a wonderful christian family after an unwed mother decided to forego an abortion in Chicago and the law protected me then, if it had been the law we have today who knows?. I have had a good life and a great son who is doing many wonderful things for others! None of this would have happened if the abortion took place.

    • http://Bravemind.blogspot.com Greg Bowman

      Bless you. We need more stories from those who escaped abortion to speak up. You and your child are beloved of God. Stay strong sister.

    • http://Bravemind.blogspot.com Greg Bowman

      Bless you. We need more stories from those who escaped abortion to speak up. You and your child are beloved of God. Stay strong sister.

    • http://Bravemind.blogspot.com Greg Bowman

      Bless you. We need more stories from those who escaped abortion to speak up. You and your child are beloved of God. Stay strong sister.

  • hankrbradley

    I was adopted in to a wonderful christian family after an unwed mother decided to forego an abortion in Chicago and the law protected me then, if it had been the law we have today who knows?. I have had a good life and a great son who is doing many wonderful things for others! None of this would have happened if the abortion took place.

  • hankrbradley

    I was adopted in to a wonderful christian family after an unwed mother decided to forego an abortion in Chicago and the law protected me then, if it had been the law we have today who knows?. I have had a good life and a great son who is doing many wonderful things for others! None of this would have happened if the abortion took place.

  • justsayin

    Ok, no easy answers here. But I am afraid that if abortions become illegal it’s going to get ugly. Anybody remember prohibition? Yes, I know this is a different situation, and more important. Every situation is different and we will never know all the details of any woman’s decision. If you don’t believe in abortions, work with people (women) who are making these choices. Don’t protest, don’t threaten, that just makes people (women) more defensive. And please, don’t tell people that you have the answer to a question that you will never be asked.

  • justsayin

    Ok, no easy answers here. But I am afraid that if abortions become illegal it’s going to get ugly. Anybody remember prohibition? Yes, I know this is a different situation, and more important. Every situation is different and we will never know all the details of any woman’s decision. If you don’t believe in abortions, work with people (women) who are making these choices. Don’t protest, don’t threaten, that just makes people (women) more defensive. And please, don’t tell people that you have the answer to a question that you will never be asked.

  • justsayin

    Ok, no easy answers here. But I am afraid that if abortions become illegal it’s going to get ugly. Anybody remember prohibition? Yes, I know this is a different situation, and more important. Every situation is different and we will never know all the details of any woman’s decision. If you don’t believe in abortions, work with people (women) who are making these choices. Don’t protest, don’t threaten, that just makes people (women) more defensive. And please, don’t tell people that you have the answer to a question that you will never be asked.

  • robinswebnest

    Sorry, but I had a friend who was raped. Yes, she got pregnant and her parents would not let her abort the child (she was 14). She had the baby (a little boy). 5 months later she was arrested for child abuse. (it seems she wanted to be a teenager and not have to take care of the baby her parents forced her to keep)
    She spent 6 months in juvie. Then back home to her baby.
    The baby was 2 years old when the mother was arrested, again. This time, for child abandonment. She left the baby with her parents for 2 days. They called and had her arrested.
    The end of this story is the baby was taken away from her.
    I can’t say anymore about her as she ran away and no one has seen her since.
    So, who was the victim? Over and over again. What about a baby who is not wanted because the child mother can’t handle it? This article is way to one sided.

    • January24

      Clearly, the girl should have released the baby for adoption immediately after birth.

      • robinswebnest

        True, but her parents forced her to keep him. I have been told by several rape victims, that they were also forced to keep their babies conceived by rape.
        These are children forced to give birth to children….of rape.
        What I am trying to say is this issue is not so cut and dried.

        • MontanaMonroe

          Giving birth to the child is not the problem here. The problem in your friend’s sad, sad story would be the dumbass parents forcing her to RAISE the child. They should have guided her to put the child up for adoption.

          Not only that, and sorry if the truth hurts, but life is hard and /especially/ in rape one needs to mature and take to a better mindset. I was raised by my biological mother until age 8, and throughout that time I was molested many times by her “boyfriend” and watched him beat and rape her. I HAD to grow up, even if I didn’t want to. In the end, maturing early under those circumstances made my life 100% better.

          It’s nothing that you should want, but it’s something you must do. If anything, for the sake of the innocent child who has no understanding of “why mommy hates him”.

          I’m glad the child was taken away from her, though. The way it happened was horrible, and I’m sure she’ll never fully heal of that experience of being forced by her parents to “raise” the child, but she can move on from it and live a better life now.

          • robinswebnest

            I am sorry you had such a horrible experience. And I do agree that when you go through such an experience, you do need to grow up quickly.
            I was molested several times starting at age 5, so I do understand.
            That is why I have spoken to so many who are survivors of such attacks. The point is, as sad as it sounds, not everyone is strong enough to mature and deal with the babies that can result of attacks.
            I would like to think that all women (in this case, young girls) can make such a decision as to keep their innocent babies. But, the fact is, they can’t.
            And, in the case of children, they really shouldn’t. They are just not equipped to deal with babies. But, this young girls example is not isolated. Many parents mistakenly think this is what is best for their daughters and the baby.
            I have yet to hear a success story of a child raised by a child of rape.

          • robinswebnest

            I am sorry you had such a horrible experience. And I do agree that when you go through such an experience, you do need to grow up quickly.
            I was molested several times starting at age 5, so I do understand.
            That is why I have spoken to so many who are survivors of such attacks. The point is, as sad as it sounds, not everyone is strong enough to mature and deal with the babies that can result of attacks.
            I would like to think that all women (in this case, young girls) can make such a decision as to keep their innocent babies. But, the fact is, they can’t.
            And, in the case of children, they really shouldn’t. They are just not equipped to deal with babies. But, this young girls example is not isolated. Many parents mistakenly think this is what is best for their daughters and the baby.
            I have yet to hear a success story of a child raised by a child of rape.

        • MontanaMonroe

          Giving birth to the child is not the problem here. The problem in your friend’s sad, sad story would be the dumbass parents forcing her to RAISE the child. They should have guided her to put the child up for adoption.

          Not only that, and sorry if the truth hurts, but life is hard and /especially/ in rape one needs to mature and take to a better mindset. I was raised by my biological mother until age 8, and throughout that time I was molested many times by her “boyfriend” and watched him beat and rape her. I HAD to grow up, even if I didn’t want to. In the end, maturing early under those circumstances made my life 100% better.

          It’s nothing that you should want, but it’s something you must do. If anything, for the sake of the innocent child who has no understanding of “why mommy hates him”.

          I’m glad the child was taken away from her, though. The way it happened was horrible, and I’m sure she’ll never fully heal of that experience of being forced by her parents to “raise” the child, but she can move on from it and live a better life now.

      • robinswebnest

        True, but her parents forced her to keep him. I have been told by several rape victims, that they were also forced to keep their babies conceived by rape.
        These are children forced to give birth to children….of rape.
        What I am trying to say is this issue is not so cut and dried.

    • January24

      Clearly, the girl should have released the baby for adoption immediately after birth.

    • January24

      Clearly, the girl should have released the baby for adoption immediately after birth.

  • robinswebnest

    Sorry, but I had a friend who was raped. Yes, she got pregnant and her parents would not let her abort the child (she was 14). She had the baby (a little boy). 5 months later she was arrested for child abuse. (it seems she wanted to be a teenager and not have to take care of the baby her parents forced her to keep)
    She spent 6 months in juvie. Then back home to her baby.
    The baby was 2 years old when the mother was arrested, again. This time, for child abandonment. She left the baby with her parents for 2 days. They called and had her arrested.
    The end of this story is the baby was taken away from her.
    I can’t say anymore about her as she ran away and no one has seen her since.
    So, who was the victim? Over and over again. What about a baby who is not wanted because the child mother can’t handle it? This article is way to one sided.

  • robinswebnest

    Sorry, but I had a friend who was raped. Yes, she got pregnant and her parents would not let her abort the child (she was 14). She had the baby (a little boy). 5 months later she was arrested for child abuse. (it seems she wanted to be a teenager and not have to take care of the baby her parents forced her to keep)
    She spent 6 months in juvie. Then back home to her baby.
    The baby was 2 years old when the mother was arrested, again. This time, for child abandonment. She left the baby with her parents for 2 days. They called and had her arrested.
    The end of this story is the baby was taken away from her.
    I can’t say anymore about her as she ran away and no one has seen her since.
    So, who was the victim? Over and over again. What about a baby who is not wanted because the child mother can’t handle it? This article is way to one sided.

  • marineh2ominer

    Mike Adams IS a professor at UNC Willmington , and you can’t imagine how crazy that makes all the liberal professors and administrators at that University . I love the man . I also have no use for murderers of infants , both pre-born and post born .

  • http://Bravemind.blogspot.com Greg Bowman

    God Bless you, Mike Adams and Diana McDargh. You have both spoken and acted with more Grace, Patience, and Courage than most.

    • http://Bravemind.blogspot.com Greg Bowman

      My wife and her sisters were repeatedly raped by her Dad. If she had gotten pregnant and aborted, who would have benefited most? Why, the Incestuous Rapist Father, of course. Think about it. Evil folks want Sin without consequences,…just like Satan. It really is that simple.

    • http://Bravemind.blogspot.com Greg Bowman

      My wife and her sisters were repeatedly raped by her Dad. If she had gotten pregnant and aborted, who would have benefited most? Why, the Incestuous Rapist Father, of course. Think about it. Evil folks want Sin without consequences,…just like Satan. It really is that simple.

    • http://Bravemind.blogspot.com Greg Bowman

      My wife and her sisters were repeatedly raped by her Dad. If she had gotten pregnant and aborted, who would have benefited most? Why, the Incestuous Rapist Father, of course. Think about it. Evil folks want Sin without consequences,…just like Satan. It really is that simple.

  • http://Bravemind.blogspot.com Greg Bowman

    God Bless you, Mike Adams and Diana McDargh. You have both spoken and acted with more Grace, Patience, and Courage than most.

  • GQ4U

    Extremely insightful.

  • GQ4U

    Extremely insightful.

  • GQ4U

    Extremely insightful.

  • GQ4U

    Professor Adams, it is outstanding how you slowly and skillfully guided this young man to a place of caring understanding. I hope he has changed after hearing your words of enlightenment. He is at least seeking and that’s the key to finding. Thanks for a great story, it should be shared with everyone — it’s very powerful.

  • GQ4U

    Professor Adams, it is outstanding how you slowly and skillfully guided this young man to a place of caring understanding. I hope he has changed after hearing your words of enlightenment. He is at least seeking and that’s the key to finding. Thanks for a great story, it should be shared with everyone — it’s very powerful.

  • GQ4U

    Professor Adams, it is outstanding how you slowly and skillfully guided this young man to a place of caring understanding. I hope he has changed after hearing your words of enlightenment. He is at least seeking and that’s the key to finding. Thanks for a great story, it should be shared with everyone — it’s very powerful.

  • muypro

    I`am glad she was able to share, yet having a sister it is sooooo painfully private and I admire her coming to peace with herself and being able to share something so personal. Thank you teen!

  • muypro

    I`am glad she was able to share, yet having a sister it is sooooo painfully private and I admire her coming to peace with herself and being able to share something so personal. Thank you teen!

  • muypro

    I`am glad she was able to share, yet having a sister it is sooooo painfully private and I admire her coming to peace with herself and being able to share something so personal. Thank you teen!

  • ken r

    I have always stood against abortion. I believe you are wrong, here. I would not want to see the genetics of a rapist perpetuated. That goes for incest also. This is not a woman playing around. It is not a woman who just got caught. It is the force able violence to make a woman carry a child against here will. through no fault of her own a man has forced her into a baby factory. For every woman who was glad the child of rape was saved there will be many others who live in fear of what the child of violence will become

    • Joy Rose

      I thought *everyone* had moved on from that old medieval belief that the circumstance of a child’s conception will somehow taint the child for life. Then again, there are still people who believe that the earth is flat…

    • Joy Rose

      I thought *everyone* had moved on from that old medieval belief that the circumstance of a child’s conception will somehow taint the child for life. Then again, there are still people who believe that the earth is flat…

  • ken r

    I have always stood against abortion. I believe you are wrong, here. I would not want to see the genetics of a rapist perpetuated. That goes for incest also. This is not a woman playing around. It is not a woman who just got caught. It is the force able violence to make a woman carry a child against here will. through no fault of her own a man has forced her into a baby factory. For every woman who was glad the child of rape was saved there will be many others who live in fear of what the child of violence will become

  • ken r

    I have always stood against abortion. I believe you are wrong, here. I would not want to see the genetics of a rapist perpetuated. That goes for incest also. This is not a woman playing around. It is not a woman who just got caught. It is the force able violence to make a woman carry a child against here will. through no fault of her own a man has forced her into a baby factory. For every woman who was glad the child of rape was saved there will be many others who live in fear of what the child of violence will become

  • DocJimmy

    OUTSTANDINGLY EXPLAINED, Mike Adams; you are wise far beyond your years and are extremely gifted in the concept of “Right and Wrong”. To the advocates and proponents of “Pro-Choice”, I will say: “Your Case is Closed”…….

  • DocJimmy

    OUTSTANDINGLY EXPLAINED, Mike Adams; you are wise far beyond your years and are extremely gifted in the concept of “Right and Wrong”. To the advocates and proponents of “Pro-Choice”, I will say: “Your Case is Closed”…….

  • DocJimmy

    OUTSTANDINGLY EXPLAINED, Mike Adams; you are wise far beyond your years and are extremely gifted in the concept of “Right and Wrong”. To the advocates and proponents of “Pro-Choice”, I will say: “Your Case is Closed”…….

  • sickofrepublicanhypocrisy

    Disgusting for anyone to think that carrying a fetus from a rapist or due to incest to full term is just perverted! DISGUSTING!

    • FrozenPatriot

      “Every time I am in a discussion of abortion that turns to the so called
      rape exception, there are two common denominators. First, it is always a
      guy. Second, he’s always sexually active. If he is sleeping with a lot
      of women he really supports unrestricted abortion. So he just feigns
      concern for the rape victim in order to preserve unrestricted abortion
      so he can have unrestricted sex. Then there are guys like you who are
      just sleeping with a girlfriend and want to preserve a tiny crack in the
      wall — a safety valve just in case you get into trouble. The idea of an
      absolute ban on abortion makes you nervous because you are taking risks
      you know you ought not to be taking.” Maybe you missed this paragraph the first time…

    • FrozenPatriot

      “Every time I am in a discussion of abortion that turns to the so called
      rape exception, there are two common denominators. First, it is always a
      guy. Second, he’s always sexually active. If he is sleeping with a lot
      of women he really supports unrestricted abortion. So he just feigns
      concern for the rape victim in order to preserve unrestricted abortion
      so he can have unrestricted sex. Then there are guys like you who are
      just sleeping with a girlfriend and want to preserve a tiny crack in the
      wall — a safety valve just in case you get into trouble. The idea of an
      absolute ban on abortion makes you nervous because you are taking risks
      you know you ought not to be taking.” Maybe you missed this paragraph the first time…

    • FrozenPatriot

      “Every time I am in a discussion of abortion that turns to the so called
      rape exception, there are two common denominators. First, it is always a
      guy. Second, he’s always sexually active. If he is sleeping with a lot
      of women he really supports unrestricted abortion. So he just feigns
      concern for the rape victim in order to preserve unrestricted abortion
      so he can have unrestricted sex. Then there are guys like you who are
      just sleeping with a girlfriend and want to preserve a tiny crack in the
      wall — a safety valve just in case you get into trouble. The idea of an
      absolute ban on abortion makes you nervous because you are taking risks
      you know you ought not to be taking.” Maybe you missed this paragraph the first time…

    • Ballistic45

      NO, what is disgusting is seeing a baby torn limb from limb, for What? You would not support capital punishment which allows a convicted killer to be placed on the ground, 5 farm tractors attached, one to each leg, arm and head.. Then having each tractor one at a time pull that appendage off the body, and if the head is not the first, you couldn’t imaging the pain of loosing arms and legs until death… But you hypocrite, you demand that innocent unwanted babies to be killed in such a manner… THAT IS DISGUSTING….
      Any “Society” that allows 3000+ children to die in this manner each and EVERY DAY, of which 90+% NOT being from rape or incest, IS PERVERTED..

    • Ballistic45

      NO, what is disgusting is seeing a baby torn limb from limb, for What? You would not support capital punishment which allows a convicted killer to be placed on the ground, 5 farm tractors attached, one to each leg, arm and head.. Then having each tractor one at a time pull that appendage off the body, and if the head is not the first, you couldn’t imaging the pain of loosing arms and legs until death… But you hypocrite, you demand that innocent unwanted babies to be killed in such a manner… THAT IS DISGUSTING….
      Any “Society” that allows 3000+ children to die in this manner each and EVERY DAY, of which 90+% NOT being from rape or incest, IS PERVERTED..

  • sickofrepublicanhypocrisy

    Disgusting for anyone to think that carrying a fetus from a rapist or due to incest to full term is just perverted! DISGUSTING!

  • Thomas Sharp

    Absolutist the best thing I have read in awhile ! Thank You Mr Adams.

  • Thomas Sharp

    Absolutist the best thing I have read in awhile ! Thank You Mr Adams.

  • Thomas Sharp

    Absolutist the best thing I have read in awhile ! Thank You Mr Adams.

  • January

    ~I agree that their is “life” at conception because the embryo begins to grow. However, if the fetus can not survive out of the womb then to me it is not murder. Some states I have heard that you can have an abortion at 6 months. To me that is horrible because it could have made it :( An embryo at 13 weeks can not. In my heart it is sad but its not murder. This is a topic that we all will argue over til the end of time.

    • Kelsey Arnold

      Any fetus can make it if is allowed to live in its natural environment. Declaring that some humans don’t have a right to life because they are at a different point at their life cycle is as groundless as saying that it’s OK to kill tadpoles because they can’t live on land. The article mentions SLED–your comment hinges on Development to claim that babies before a certain age can be killed with impunity.

      In addition, the line of “viability” has much, much more to do with the state of technology OUTside the womb than the state of the fetus INside the womb. Once, even full-term babies had very poor projections because medical science was not able to help them if something was wrong. Now, thanks to the knowledge of doctors and nurses and the equipment in NICUs, babies can survive leaving the womb much earlier than they normally would.

      • January

        Opinions are like Aholes…. Everyone has one. You may not like my statement and that’s okay :D

        • Kelsey Arnold

          TED talk about fetal development: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKyljukBE70

          Mayo clinic on fetal development: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/prenatal-care/PR00112

          My argument is based on fact. (Thank you for not calling me a religious zealot, though; that happens far too frequently at this point in the conversation!) Scientifically, we are discussing 1) a living organism 2) with distinct DNA 3) of the human species. That means it’s a human being, distinct from the mother. The question is not about when life begins or whether the developing baby has this ability or that body part–it’s about when it is acceptable to kill a human being.

          I am willing to rethink my position on abortion if you can present an argument that fulfills the following criteria:

          1) applies equally to human beings outside of the womb and those inside

          2) justifies the death of a human being
          3) is not wildly discriminatory (for example, killing someone because he or she is disabled or is a certain gender)

          • January

            I, myself would not call you any sort of name. That is not the person that I am. I am also a Christian. I do not point the finger at people. The Lord says there is no greater sin than another except for blasphemy. I’m also not trying to sway your belief. This is a sore subject. Who can be right or wrong?
            I understand that it is a human being and I said that a conception there is life because the baby begins to grow. Honestly, I am not sure how to answer your questions that you posted.
            Who is to say that it is wrong to gender select. I think that it is wrong. If a woman is raped, is it okay to have an abortion? I think so. It is awful for what happened to her and must she feel a baby move within her body? This would/could cause her mental distress and possible suicide.
            Putting my small comment has me second guessing myself to even be honest and say how I feel. I wish you luck in your cause. All that I can do is pray for the souls of the mothers and unborn babies and give it to God. We (the flesh) are not going to be able to stop abortions. If they are banned, women will have it done black market. Where there is a will there is a way. Hope the best for you. Keep challenging people :)

          • FrozenPatriot

            January, since you are a fellow Christian, this should appeal to you.

            From Exodus 21: (God speaking the law to Moses) “Suppose two men are fighting, and in the process they accidentally strike a pregnant woman so she gives birth prematurely. If no further injury results, the man who struck the woman must pay the amount of compensation the woman’s husband demands and the judges approve. But if there is further injury, the punishment must match the injury: A LIFE FOR A LIFE, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a hand, a foot for a foot, a burn for a burn, a wound for a wound, a bruise for a bruise.” The ubiquitous phrase “an eye for an eye” was handed down by God Himself! Killing the unborn results in the death penalty and God’s literal words are quite clear on the matter.

            You ask, “Who can be right or wrong?” “Who is to say that it is wrong to gender select?” “If a woman is raped, is it okay to have an abortion?” “must she feel a baby move within her body?

            God also speaks in Revelations 3 to the unwillingness of Christians to stand against evil: “I know all the things you do, that you are neither hot nor cold. I wish that you were one or the other! But since you are like lukewarm water, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth!…I correct and discipline everyone I love. So be diligent and turn from your indifference.”

            “spit you out of my mouth” is God’s way of saying he will have nothing to do with those who are lukewarm (indifferent) in their faith. You have your instructions, (from God, not me…) please act accordingly.

          • FrozenPatriot

            January, since you are a fellow Christian, this should appeal to you.

            From Exodus 21: (God speaking the law to Moses) “Suppose two men are fighting, and in the process they accidentally strike a pregnant woman so she gives birth prematurely. If no further injury results, the man who struck the woman must pay the amount of compensation the woman’s husband demands and the judges approve. But if there is further injury, the punishment must match the injury: A LIFE FOR A LIFE, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a hand, a foot for a foot, a burn for a burn, a wound for a wound, a bruise for a bruise.” The ubiquitous phrase “an eye for an eye” was handed down by God Himself! Killing the unborn results in the death penalty and God’s literal words are quite clear on the matter.

            You ask, “Who can be right or wrong?” “Who is to say that it is wrong to gender select?” “If a woman is raped, is it okay to have an abortion?” “must she feel a baby move within her body?

            God also speaks in Revelations 3 to the unwillingness of Christians to stand against evil: “I know all the things you do, that you are neither hot nor cold. I wish that you were one or the other! But since you are like lukewarm water, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth!…I correct and discipline everyone I love. So be diligent and turn from your indifference.”

            “spit you out of my mouth” is God’s way of saying he will have nothing to do with those who are lukewarm (indifferent) in their faith. You have your instructions, (from God, not me…) please act accordingly.

          • January

            Point taken. We as Christians are suppose to help hold each other accountable and I appreciate you bringing those points to my attention. And agree. But I am not here to judge. “Judge ye less not be judged”. The Lord is the Judge, the Jury and the executioner. (Not us) We are ordered to Love one another despite our differences. I pray that I am never put in this situation to make a horrible decision and pray for those that do.
            Take Care

          • FrozenPatriot

            January, since you are a fellow Christian, this should appeal to you.

            From Exodus 21: (God speaking the law to Moses) “Suppose two men are fighting, and in the process they accidentally strike a pregnant woman so she gives birth prematurely. If no further injury results, the man who struck the woman must pay the amount of compensation the woman’s husband demands and the judges approve. But if there is further injury, the punishment must match the injury: A LIFE FOR A LIFE, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a hand, a foot for a foot, a burn for a burn, a wound for a wound, a bruise for a bruise.” The ubiquitous phrase “an eye for an eye” was handed down by God Himself! Killing the unborn results in the death penalty and God’s literal words are quite clear on the matter.

            You ask, “Who can be right or wrong?” “Who is to say that it is wrong to gender select?” “If a woman is raped, is it okay to have an abortion?” “must she feel a baby move within her body?

            God also speaks in Revelations 3 to the unwillingness of Christians to stand against evil: “I know all the things you do, that you are neither hot nor cold. I wish that you were one or the other! But since you are like lukewarm water, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth!…I correct and discipline everyone I love. So be diligent and turn from your indifference.”

            “spit you out of my mouth” is God’s way of saying he will have nothing to do with those who are lukewarm (indifferent) in their faith. You have your instructions, (from God, not me…) please act accordingly.

          • January

            I, myself would not call you any sort of name. That is not the person that I am. I am also a Christian. I do not point the finger at people. The Lord says there is no greater sin than another except for blasphemy. I’m also not trying to sway your belief. This is a sore subject. Who can be right or wrong?
            I understand that it is a human being and I said that a conception there is life because the baby begins to grow. Honestly, I am not sure how to answer your questions that you posted.
            Who is to say that it is wrong to gender select. I think that it is wrong. If a woman is raped, is it okay to have an abortion? I think so. It is awful for what happened to her and must she feel a baby move within her body? This would/could cause her mental distress and possible suicide.
            Putting my small comment has me second guessing myself to even be honest and say how I feel. I wish you luck in your cause. All that I can do is pray for the souls of the mothers and unborn babies and give it to God. We (the flesh) are not going to be able to stop abortions. If they are banned, women will have it done black market. Where there is a will there is a way. Hope the best for you. Keep challenging people :)

        • Kelsey Arnold

          TED talk about fetal development: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKyljukBE70

          Mayo clinic on fetal development: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/prenatal-care/PR00112

          My argument is based on fact. (Thank you for not calling me a religious zealot, though; that happens far too frequently at this point in the conversation!) Scientifically, we are discussing 1) a living organism 2) with distinct DNA 3) of the human species. That means it’s a human being, distinct from the mother. The question is not about when life begins or whether the developing baby has this ability or that body part–it’s about when it is acceptable to kill a human being.

          I am willing to rethink my position on abortion if you can present an argument that fulfills the following criteria:

          1) applies equally to human beings outside of the womb and those inside

          2) justifies the death of a human being
          3) is not wildly discriminatory (for example, killing someone because he or she is disabled or is a certain gender)

        • Kelsey Arnold

          TED talk about fetal development: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKyljukBE70

          Mayo clinic on fetal development: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/prenatal-care/PR00112

          My argument is based on fact. (Thank you for not calling me a religious zealot, though; that happens far too frequently at this point in the conversation!) Scientifically, we are discussing 1) a living organism 2) with distinct DNA 3) of the human species. That means it’s a human being, distinct from the mother. The question is not about when life begins or whether the developing baby has this ability or that body part–it’s about when it is acceptable to kill a human being.

          I am willing to rethink my position on abortion if you can present an argument that fulfills the following criteria:

          1) applies equally to human beings outside of the womb and those inside

          2) justifies the death of a human being
          3) is not wildly discriminatory (for example, killing someone because he or she is disabled or is a certain gender)

      • January

        Opinions are like Aholes…. Everyone has one. You may not like my statement and that’s okay :D

      • January

        Opinions are like Aholes…. Everyone has one. You may not like my statement and that’s okay :D

    • Kelsey Arnold

      Any fetus can make it if is allowed to live in its natural environment. Declaring that some humans don’t have a right to life because they are at a different point at their life cycle is as groundless as saying that it’s OK to kill tadpoles because they can’t live on land. The article mentions SLED–your comment hinges on Development to claim that babies before a certain age can be killed with impunity.

      In addition, the line of “viability” has much, much more to do with the state of technology OUTside the womb than the state of the fetus INside the womb. Once, even full-term babies had very poor projections because medical science was not able to help them if something was wrong. Now, thanks to the knowledge of doctors and nurses and the equipment in NICUs, babies can survive leaving the womb much earlier than they normally would.

    • Kelsey Arnold

      Any fetus can make it if is allowed to live in its natural environment. Declaring that some humans don’t have a right to life because they are at a different point at their life cycle is as groundless as saying that it’s OK to kill tadpoles because they can’t live on land. The article mentions SLED–your comment hinges on Development to claim that babies before a certain age can be killed with impunity.

      In addition, the line of “viability” has much, much more to do with the state of technology OUTside the womb than the state of the fetus INside the womb. Once, even full-term babies had very poor projections because medical science was not able to help them if something was wrong. Now, thanks to the knowledge of doctors and nurses and the equipment in NICUs, babies can survive leaving the womb much earlier than they normally would.

    • Ballistic45

      A baby born naturally cannot survive outside the womb either without support in feeding and care, so you go along with those European Professors who believe killing children AFTER they are born is no different than killing them before birth in an Abortion.. Their reasoning is that a child should be able to be killed if it is a burden to the family and they have no concept of their human potential so they are not yet a person… Down’s Syndrome was one of the reasons given for a death sentence… SEE: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9113394/Killing-babies-no-different-from-abortion-experts-say.html — So where do YOU draw the line???

  • January

    ~I agree that their is “life” at conception because the embryo begins to grow. However, if the fetus can not survive out of the womb then to me it is not murder. Some states I have heard that you can have an abortion at 6 months. To me that is horrible because it could have made it :( An embryo at 13 weeks can not. In my heart it is sad but its not murder. This is a topic that we all will argue over til the end of time.

  • January

    ~I agree that their is “life” at conception because the embryo begins to grow. However, if the fetus can not survive out of the womb then to me it is not murder. Some states I have heard that you can have an abortion at 6 months. To me that is horrible because it could have made it :( An embryo at 13 weeks can not. In my heart it is sad but its not murder. This is a topic that we all will argue over til the end of time.

  • lynn

    just because they abort a child produced by rape does not make the crime of rape go away I believe it makes the situation worse…agree 100% with your article…

  • lynn

    just because they abort a child produced by rape does not make the crime of rape go away I believe it makes the situation worse…agree 100% with your article…

  • lynn

    just because they abort a child produced by rape does not make the crime of rape go away I believe it makes the situation worse…agree 100% with your article…

  • Hannah @ Boots & Feet

    Beauty from ashes

  • Hannah @ Boots & Feet

    Beauty from ashes

  • Wendy

    The ONLY issue the dems advertise, particularly in swing states, and the only issue which works for them, is abortion. If somebody WANTS to bear a child for a rapist thats’ fine; but the idea of LEGALLY REQUIRING anybody to bear children for rapists is a formula for guaranteeing 100 years of democrat rule tarting from now.

    Is that what you want??

    • FrozenPatriot

      If political gain comes at the cost of sacrificing principles, then so be it! If what you say is true than our country is too down the road toward a culture of death and not worth fighting for. Fortunately, what you say isn’t true, and the long-term trend since Roe V. Wade has been slowly and steadily away from abortion. With advances in technology fostering honest assessments about what’s alive and growing in a mother’s womb, a growing number of people are turning away from this deplorable act of murder.

  • Wendy

    The ONLY issue the dems advertise, particularly in swing states, and the only issue which works for them, is abortion. If somebody WANTS to bear a child for a rapist thats’ fine; but the idea of LEGALLY REQUIRING anybody to bear children for rapists is a formula for guaranteeing 100 years of democrat rule tarting from now.

    Is that what you want??

  • Wendy

    The ONLY issue the dems advertise, particularly in swing states, and the only issue which works for them, is abortion. If somebody WANTS to bear a child for a rapist thats’ fine; but the idea of LEGALLY REQUIRING anybody to bear children for rapists is a formula for guaranteeing 100 years of democrat rule tarting from now.

    Is that what you want??

  • mtman2

    This conversation if video’d should go viral for teen + college age kids to get a mature + relevant source of moral wisdom for life + lives!

  • mtman2

    This conversation if video’d should go viral for teen + college age kids to get a mature + relevant source of moral wisdom for life + lives!

  • ekaneti

    Good luck explaining all that in a 30 sec political ad.

  • Jessica Sanchez

    As usual, the article distorts reality. About 50% of rape pregnancies are aborted. What do you think the number is for non-rape pregnancies?

    • Joy Rose

      The only *major* study done on rape pregnancies shows that 75-85% do not abort. Among those who *do*, a much higher percentage of them say afterwards that they were forced to do so.

      • Jessica Sanchez

        Would you be so kind as to provide a link to your “major” study?

        • Joy Rose

          Link would be difficult, because Disqus doesn’t always let me do it, but here’s the study info:

          Mahkorn, “Pregnancy and Sexual Assault,” The Psychological Aspects of Abortion, eds. Mall & Watts, (Washington, D.C., University Publications of America, 1979) 55-69.

          Dr. Reardon did a more informal survey of over 160 impregnated rape victims in 2004 and got the same percentage.

          • Jessica Sanchez

            You might want to update your news sources. Try this one on for size: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8765248

            “Rape-related pregnancy: estimates and descriptive characteristics from a national sample of women. (1996)

            OBJECTIVE:

            We attempted to determine the national rape-related pregnancy rate and provide descriptive characteristics of pregnancies that result from rape.

            STUDY DESIGN:

            A national probability sample of 4008 adult American women took part in a 3-year longitudinal survey that assessed the prevalence and incidence of rape and related physical and mental health outcomes.

            RESULTS:

            The national rape-related pregnancy rate is 5.0% per rape among victims of reproductive age (aged 12 to 45); among adult women an estimated 32,101 pregnancies result from rape each year. Among 34 cases of rape-related pregnancy, the majority occurred among adolescents and resulted from assault by a known, often related perpetrator. Only 11.7% of these victims received immediate medical attention after the assault, and 47.1% received no medical attention related to the rape. A total 32.4% of these victims did not discover they were pregnant until they had already entered the second trimester; 32.2% opted to keep the infant whereas 50% underwent abortion and 5.9% placed the infant for adoption; an additional 11.8% had spontaneous abortion.”
            4008 women polled over 3 years. A very valid study.

          • Joy Rose

            Read it again. The hundreds of people in the other studies were all pregnant rape victims. This study had only about thirty, and it’s older than the Reardon study. Thirty is not a very good sample size for a nationwide survey.

          • Jessica Sanchez

            You might want to update your news sources. Try this one on for size: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8765248

            “Rape-related pregnancy: estimates and descriptive characteristics from a national sample of women. (1996)

            OBJECTIVE:

            We attempted to determine the national rape-related pregnancy rate and provide descriptive characteristics of pregnancies that result from rape.

            STUDY DESIGN:

            A national probability sample of 4008 adult American women took part in a 3-year longitudinal survey that assessed the prevalence and incidence of rape and related physical and mental health outcomes.

            RESULTS:

            The national rape-related pregnancy rate is 5.0% per rape among victims of reproductive age (aged 12 to 45); among adult women an estimated 32,101 pregnancies result from rape each year. Among 34 cases of rape-related pregnancy, the majority occurred among adolescents and resulted from assault by a known, often related perpetrator. Only 11.7% of these victims received immediate medical attention after the assault, and 47.1% received no medical attention related to the rape. A total 32.4% of these victims did not discover they were pregnant until they had already entered the second trimester; 32.2% opted to keep the infant whereas 50% underwent abortion and 5.9% placed the infant for adoption; an additional 11.8% had spontaneous abortion.”
            4008 women polled over 3 years. A very valid study.

          • Jessica Sanchez

            You might want to update your news sources. Try this one on for size: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8765248

            “Rape-related pregnancy: estimates and descriptive characteristics from a national sample of women. (1996)

            OBJECTIVE:

            We attempted to determine the national rape-related pregnancy rate and provide descriptive characteristics of pregnancies that result from rape.

            STUDY DESIGN:

            A national probability sample of 4008 adult American women took part in a 3-year longitudinal survey that assessed the prevalence and incidence of rape and related physical and mental health outcomes.

            RESULTS:

            The national rape-related pregnancy rate is 5.0% per rape among victims of reproductive age (aged 12 to 45); among adult women an estimated 32,101 pregnancies result from rape each year. Among 34 cases of rape-related pregnancy, the majority occurred among adolescents and resulted from assault by a known, often related perpetrator. Only 11.7% of these victims received immediate medical attention after the assault, and 47.1% received no medical attention related to the rape. A total 32.4% of these victims did not discover they were pregnant until they had already entered the second trimester; 32.2% opted to keep the infant whereas 50% underwent abortion and 5.9% placed the infant for adoption; an additional 11.8% had spontaneous abortion.”
            4008 women polled over 3 years. A very valid study.

    • Joy Rose

      The only *major* study done on rape pregnancies shows that 75-85% do not abort. Among those who *do*, a much higher percentage of them say afterwards that they were forced to do so.

    • Joy Rose

      The only *major* study done on rape pregnancies shows that 75-85% do not abort. Among those who *do*, a much higher percentage of them say afterwards that they were forced to do so.

  • Jessica Sanchez

    As usual, the article distorts reality. About 50% of rape pregnancies are aborted. What do you think the number is for non-rape pregnancies?

  • Jessica Sanchez

    As usual, the article distorts reality. About 50% of rape pregnancies are aborted. What do you think the number is for non-rape pregnancies?

  • Wendy

    Here’s an example of a case in which neither you nor anybody else could look somebody in the eye and not blink.

    A friend and his wife had a child who died of a genetic disease, cystic fibrosis, at about six or seven years of age. A second pregnancy tested positive for the same disease and they terminated it and then a third tested negative and that child is now thirteen years old, happy and healthy. Clearly without legal abortion those people would not have been willing to risk any further attempts at having children and that child would not be alive, Nonetheless, the right2life crowd would want those two people in prison or at least so it seems.

    THAT is the kind of thing which makes abortion a winning issue for democrats. My own preference would be to not provide democrats with any winning issues.

    • Jessica Sanchez

      However, we thank you for that great example which supports the value of abortion.

      • Ballistic45

        What’s the VALUE? Who in the world values killing the most innocent among us.. Jesus, why don’t you people watch an actual abortion then make your stupid comments on VALUES.. Got the GUTS? See the real results of Abortion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM8h6LQscCw

      • Ballistic45

        What’s the VALUE? Who in the world values killing the most innocent among us.. Jesus, why don’t you people watch an actual abortion then make your stupid comments on VALUES.. Got the GUTS? See the real results of Abortion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM8h6LQscCw

      • Ballistic45

        What’s the VALUE? Who in the world values killing the most innocent among us.. Jesus, why don’t you people watch an actual abortion then make your stupid comments on VALUES.. Got the GUTS? See the real results of Abortion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM8h6LQscCw

    • Jessica Sanchez

      However, we thank you for that great example which supports the value of abortion.

    • Jessica Sanchez

      However, we thank you for that great example which supports the value of abortion.

    • Ballistic45

      You will find the percentage of Abortions for this reason minuscule… This Nation DOES NOT NEED to be killing 3000+ of our children EVERY FRIGGIN day..

    • Ballistic45

      You will find the percentage of Abortions for this reason minuscule… This Nation DOES NOT NEED to be killing 3000+ of our children EVERY FRIGGIN day..

    • Ballistic45

      You will find the percentage of Abortions for this reason minuscule… This Nation DOES NOT NEED to be killing 3000+ of our children EVERY FRIGGIN day..

    • Joy Rose

      So basically, your friends wouldn’t have dared try to have a perfect baby unless they were allowed to kill any babies who weren’t perfect enough for them.

      Are we to become morally bereft in order to make “winning issues” for Democrats?

    • Joy Rose

      So basically, your friends wouldn’t have dared try to have a perfect baby unless they were allowed to kill any babies who weren’t perfect enough for them.

      Are we to become morally bereft in order to make “winning issues” for Democrats?

  • Wendy

    Here’s an example of a case in which neither you nor anybody else could look somebody in the eye and not blink.

    A friend and his wife had a child who died of a genetic disease, cystic fibrosis, at about six or seven years of age. A second pregnancy tested positive for the same disease and they terminated it and then a third tested negative and that child is now thirteen years old, happy and healthy. Clearly without legal abortion those people would not have been willing to risk any further attempts at having children and that child would not be alive, Nonetheless, the right2life crowd would want those two people in prison or at least so it seems.

    THAT is the kind of thing which makes abortion a winning issue for democrats. My own preference would be to not provide democrats with any winning issues.

  • Wendy

    Here’s an example of a case in which neither you nor anybody else could look somebody in the eye and not blink.

    A friend and his wife had a child who died of a genetic disease, cystic fibrosis, at about six or seven years of age. A second pregnancy tested positive for the same disease and they terminated it and then a third tested negative and that child is now thirteen years old, happy and healthy. Clearly without legal abortion those people would not have been willing to risk any further attempts at having children and that child would not be alive, Nonetheless, the right2life crowd would want those two people in prison or at least so it seems.

    THAT is the kind of thing which makes abortion a winning issue for democrats. My own preference would be to not provide democrats with any winning issues.

  • Passerby

    if the conception of sperm and egg is not allowed to develop further(abortion), it is a sin, you say? then isn’t preventing that conception from happening(using condoms) the same thing? preventing life is as good as killing it, no? it’s God who gives and take, so who are you to choose to give (when the “time is right”) but condemn those who kill?

  • http://ClashDaily.com/ Donald Joy

    Perhaps the best article I’ve ever read. Wow.

  • http://ClashDaily.com/ Donald Joy

    Perhaps the best article I’ve ever read. Wow.

  • http://ClashDaily.com/ Donald Joy

    Perhaps the best article I’ve ever read. Wow.

  • Concerned with our society

    i think for all those who believe a fetus is not a child, should google what a fetus looks like in the womb. See the stages of sucking his/her thumb. Or the toes and fingers moving inside. The stage of when a child can hear or smell. We talk about Hitler being evil, what then does that make American’s who voted for a president that allows abortions. There are about 1.3 abortions a year. You can also google an accrual abortion being perform and watch the cut the arms, legs and head away from the body. The baby cries and screams. It is alive! I was pregnant from a rape once but I miscarried the child. I would of never decided to play God and decide if that child or not deserved life. I also know women from when I was a teenager, many moons ago, who all resent having abortions and to this day they can not get over their guilt.

    • Concerned with our society

      I left out the million after 1.3 that is America’s numbers. A good video to watch about abortion is the 180 movie.

    • Concerned with our society

      I left out the million after 1.3 that is America’s numbers. A good video to watch about abortion is the 180 movie.

    • Concerned with our society

      I left out the million after 1.3 that is America’s numbers. A good video to watch about abortion is the 180 movie.

  • Concerned with our society

    i think for all those who believe a fetus is not a child, should google what a fetus looks like in the womb. See the stages of sucking his/her thumb. Or the toes and fingers moving inside. The stage of when a child can hear or smell. We talk about Hitler being evil, what then does that make American’s who voted for a president that allows abortions. There are about 1.3 abortions a year. You can also google an accrual abortion being perform and watch the cut the arms, legs and head away from the body. The baby cries and screams. It is alive! I was pregnant from a rape once but I miscarried the child. I would of never decided to play God and decide if that child or not deserved life. I also know women from when I was a teenager, many moons ago, who all resent having abortions and to this day they can not get over their guilt.

  • Concerned with our society

    i think for all those who believe a fetus is not a child, should google what a fetus looks like in the womb. See the stages of sucking his/her thumb. Or the toes and fingers moving inside. The stage of when a child can hear or smell. We talk about Hitler being evil, what then does that make American’s who voted for a president that allows abortions. There are about 1.3 abortions a year. You can also google an accrual abortion being perform and watch the cut the arms, legs and head away from the body. The baby cries and screams. It is alive! I was pregnant from a rape once but I miscarried the child. I would of never decided to play God and decide if that child or not deserved life. I also know women from when I was a teenager, many moons ago, who all resent having abortions and to this day they can not get over their guilt.

  • Becky Shepherd

    …the only one who has the right to make a choice about my body is ME. The
    decision to abort, or carry to term, a baby conceived from rape (or at all) should
    be the choice of the mother and ONLY the mother, since it’s her body that will change and be effected. It is her mind and body that was violated and she has the right to choose what else happens to it. If she isn’t ready for a child then she should be allowed to not have a child. I do think that if the father was not a rapists, and is willing to be supportive and parent the child he should also have a say.

    It’s a good thing that guy wasn’t interviewing me, or someone other than a teenager. I would have asked:

    “When were you raped?” And when he responded either ‘never’, or ‘a few years
    ago’ I’d ask “How did it feel to carry your rapists child to term…oh wait. You didn’t, you’re a man.”

    Followed by “How many children who are the product of rape, or mothers who weren’t ready to have babies, have you adopted?” Any answer other than one or more would ruin his credibility. Obviously.

    It’s very nice to think that every baby should be born into a happy home where everyone made the choice to have them and welcome them. The reality is these laws against birth control, abortions, ect that are being passed or brought up in the US do NOTHING to deal with the babies that WILL be born into homes that are in no way prepared to raise a child.

    Where do those babies go? There are already a LOT of children, babies too, in the foster system not getting adopted. Adding more by preventing birth control isn’t going to make that problem magically better, but much much worse.

    So until the pro-life people start stepping up and adopting these unlucky babies they need to stop forcing them to be born.

    • Joy Rose

      Are you saying now that nobody is permitted to be pro-life unless they have adopted a rape baby? How disingenious. May I insist that you cannot be pro-choice until you have been raped, impregnated, and killed your own baby?

      • Becky Shepherd

        No, I’m saying its incredibly short sighted to force women who are not prepared for a child to birth one, and then be unprepared to offer any support once the kid is here.

        You’re effectively saying the child is only important until it’s born, at which point you wash your hands of it and say ‘not my problem’.

        • Joy Rose

          No, actually, I said no such thing.

          You said:

          “”How many children who are the product of rape, or mothers who weren’t ready to have babies, have you adopted?” Any answer other than one or more would ruin his credibility. Obviously.”

          I responded:

          “Are you saying now that nobody is permitted to be pro-life unless they have adopted a rape baby? How disingenious. May I insist that you cannot be pro-choice until you have been raped, impregnated, and killed your own baby?”

          I did not say anything about forcing women to birth children, refusing to offer support, or washing my hands of the situation once the child is born. You projected all of those things on me because I disagreed with your definition of “credibility”.

          Try letting people speak for themselves instead of arguing with what you’ve decided to pretend that they believe.

        • Joy Rose

          No, actually, I said no such thing.

          You said:

          “”How many children who are the product of rape, or mothers who weren’t ready to have babies, have you adopted?” Any answer other than one or more would ruin his credibility. Obviously.”

          I responded:

          “Are you saying now that nobody is permitted to be pro-life unless they have adopted a rape baby? How disingenious. May I insist that you cannot be pro-choice until you have been raped, impregnated, and killed your own baby?”

          I did not say anything about forcing women to birth children, refusing to offer support, or washing my hands of the situation once the child is born. You projected all of those things on me because I disagreed with your definition of “credibility”.

          Try letting people speak for themselves instead of arguing with what you’ve decided to pretend that they believe.

        • Joy Rose

          No, actually, I said no such thing.

          You said:

          “”How many children who are the product of rape, or mothers who weren’t ready to have babies, have you adopted?” Any answer other than one or more would ruin his credibility. Obviously.”

          I responded:

          “Are you saying now that nobody is permitted to be pro-life unless they have adopted a rape baby? How disingenious. May I insist that you cannot be pro-choice until you have been raped, impregnated, and killed your own baby?”

          I did not say anything about forcing women to birth children, refusing to offer support, or washing my hands of the situation once the child is born. You projected all of those things on me because I disagreed with your definition of “credibility”.

          Try letting people speak for themselves instead of arguing with what you’ve decided to pretend that they believe.

      • Becky Shepherd

        No, I’m saying its incredibly short sighted to force women who are not prepared for a child to birth one, and then be unprepared to offer any support once the kid is here.

        You’re effectively saying the child is only important until it’s born, at which point you wash your hands of it and say ‘not my problem’.

      • Becky Shepherd

        No, I’m saying its incredibly short sighted to force women who are not prepared for a child to birth one, and then be unprepared to offer any support once the kid is here.

        You’re effectively saying the child is only important until it’s born, at which point you wash your hands of it and say ‘not my problem’.

    • Joy Rose

      Are you saying now that nobody is permitted to be pro-life unless they have adopted a rape baby? How disingenious. May I insist that you cannot be pro-choice until you have been raped, impregnated, and killed your own baby?

    • Joy Rose

      Are you saying now that nobody is permitted to be pro-life unless they have adopted a rape baby? How disingenious. May I insist that you cannot be pro-choice until you have been raped, impregnated, and killed your own baby?

  • Becky Shepherd

    …the only one who has the right to make a choice about my body is ME. The
    decision to abort, or carry to term, a baby conceived from rape (or at all) should
    be the choice of the mother and ONLY the mother, since it’s her body that will change and be effected. It is her mind and body that was violated and she has the right to choose what else happens to it. If she isn’t ready for a child then she should be allowed to not have a child. I do think that if the father was not a rapists, and is willing to be supportive and parent the child he should also have a say.

    It’s a good thing that guy wasn’t interviewing me, or someone other than a teenager. I would have asked:

    “When were you raped?” And when he responded either ‘never’, or ‘a few years
    ago’ I’d ask “How did it feel to carry your rapists child to term…oh wait. You didn’t, you’re a man.”

    Followed by “How many children who are the product of rape, or mothers who weren’t ready to have babies, have you adopted?” Any answer other than one or more would ruin his credibility. Obviously.

    It’s very nice to think that every baby should be born into a happy home where everyone made the choice to have them and welcome them. The reality is these laws against birth control, abortions, ect that are being passed or brought up in the US do NOTHING to deal with the babies that WILL be born into homes that are in no way prepared to raise a child.

    Where do those babies go? There are already a LOT of children, babies too, in the foster system not getting adopted. Adding more by preventing birth control isn’t going to make that problem magically better, but much much worse.

    So until the pro-life people start stepping up and adopting these unlucky babies they need to stop forcing them to be born.

  • Becky Shepherd

    …the only one who has the right to make a choice about my body is ME. The
    decision to abort, or carry to term, a baby conceived from rape (or at all) should
    be the choice of the mother and ONLY the mother, since it’s her body that will change and be effected. It is her mind and body that was violated and she has the right to choose what else happens to it. If she isn’t ready for a child then she should be allowed to not have a child. I do think that if the father was not a rapists, and is willing to be supportive and parent the child he should also have a say.

    It’s a good thing that guy wasn’t interviewing me, or someone other than a teenager. I would have asked:

    “When were you raped?” And when he responded either ‘never’, or ‘a few years
    ago’ I’d ask “How did it feel to carry your rapists child to term…oh wait. You didn’t, you’re a man.”

    Followed by “How many children who are the product of rape, or mothers who weren’t ready to have babies, have you adopted?” Any answer other than one or more would ruin his credibility. Obviously.

    It’s very nice to think that every baby should be born into a happy home where everyone made the choice to have them and welcome them. The reality is these laws against birth control, abortions, ect that are being passed or brought up in the US do NOTHING to deal with the babies that WILL be born into homes that are in no way prepared to raise a child.

    Where do those babies go? There are already a LOT of children, babies too, in the foster system not getting adopted. Adding more by preventing birth control isn’t going to make that problem magically better, but much much worse.

    So until the pro-life people start stepping up and adopting these unlucky babies they need to stop forcing them to be born.

  • billybob

    So just to clarify: a woman who endures a violent rape must then be further forced – by the state under threat of imprisonment — to give birth to the rapist’s child. And all this because a 100-celled blastocyst has the magic spirit dust within it.

  • billybob

    So just to clarify: a woman who endures a violent rape must then be further forced – by the state under threat of imprisonment — to give birth to the rapist’s child. And all this because a 100-celled blastocyst has the magic spirit dust within it.

    • Ballistic45

      Yep!, the DNA of the Blastocyst will remain the same until death, HUMAN.. Less than 10% of ALL abortions are for Rape or Incest.. Over 90% of woman site “Inconvenience” of having a child as the reason for an Abortion.. Either financially, wrong time in their lives to raise a child or just because they don’t want to be a mother… If anyone else were killing 3000+ of our children each and every day, WE would be AT WAR with them….

    • Ballistic45

      Yep!, the DNA of the Blastocyst will remain the same until death, HUMAN.. Less than 10% of ALL abortions are for Rape or Incest.. Over 90% of woman site “Inconvenience” of having a child as the reason for an Abortion.. Either financially, wrong time in their lives to raise a child or just because they don’t want to be a mother… If anyone else were killing 3000+ of our children each and every day, WE would be AT WAR with them….

    • Joy Rose

      Right now, a woman who endures a violent rape is further forced – in many cases, without even fully understanding what’s happening – to abort. You prefer this?

      “The abortion which was to “be in my best interest” just has not been. As far as I can tell, it only ‘saved their reputations,’ ‘solved their problems,’ and ‘allowed their lives to go merrily on.’ . . . My daughter, how I miss her so. I miss her regardless of the reason for her conception.” – Edith, a victim of rape and incest

    • Joy Rose

      Right now, a woman who endures a violent rape is further forced – in many cases, without even fully understanding what’s happening – to abort. You prefer this?

      “The abortion which was to “be in my best interest” just has not been. As far as I can tell, it only ‘saved their reputations,’ ‘solved their problems,’ and ‘allowed their lives to go merrily on.’ . . . My daughter, how I miss her so. I miss her regardless of the reason for her conception.” – Edith, a victim of rape and incest

    • Joy Rose

      Right now, a woman who endures a violent rape is further forced – in many cases, without even fully understanding what’s happening – to abort. You prefer this?

      “The abortion which was to “be in my best interest” just has not been. As far as I can tell, it only ‘saved their reputations,’ ‘solved their problems,’ and ‘allowed their lives to go merrily on.’ . . . My daughter, how I miss her so. I miss her regardless of the reason for her conception.” – Edith, a victim of rape and incest

  • billybob

    So just to clarify: a woman who endures a violent rape must then be further forced – by the state under threat of imprisonment — to give birth to the rapist’s child. And all this because a 100-celled blastocyst has the magic spirit dust within it.

  • Pro choice is not pro abortion

    Maybe you should be teaching men not to raps, rather than what a woman should do if she’s raped!
    Also every abortion deprives an adoptive couple? Really? They had no claim to said baby. And with that logic every egg that I lose each cycle deprives adoptive couples, so does me getting pregnant and keeping my baby

    You are crazy and a mysoginist

    • Joy Rose

      I’ll tell you what. You can try your best, with your mindset that if a man rapes a woman she can just go fix it with an abortion, to teach rapists to not be criminals anymore. Be sure to explain how his actions can cause permanent consequences when she is being ‘encouraged’.. in many cases, coerced.. into just having the baby killed and “going on with her life”.

      Meanwhile, I will go on being a crazy misogynist who believes that women’s lives have value even if you don’t approve of the way they were conceived.

      • Lissa

        A man raped me in my sophomore year of high school on my way home from school. Pretty sure no one “coerced” me “into having the baby killed”. I was fifteen and traumatized over being beaten and raped. And on the forefront of my mind was myself and the pain between my legs and the sobbing every night when I remembered it all over again– not having his child, regardless of how great of a life they might have had. Going through a pregnancy is hard enough when you love your growing baby as well as the man you are with. But, it is next to impossible when you can’t help but hate your own baby, and have no partner to support you with their love. Sure, some girls may have been able to do it, with their own will and the support of their family and friends. And god bless them for that. However, I did not even have the support of a family, so I had an abortion. And I have never regretted that decision.

        • Joe

          Cudos for sharing your hardship with us. I would never presume to be so self righteous as to know best what you should have done.

        • Charity Snyder Heaton

          thank you for sharing what I am sure was a hard decision..it sounds like you made the right one for you.

    • Joy Rose

      I’ll tell you what. You can try your best, with your mindset that if a man rapes a woman she can just go fix it with an abortion, to teach rapists to not be criminals anymore. Be sure to explain how his actions can cause permanent consequences when she is being ‘encouraged’.. in many cases, coerced.. into just having the baby killed and “going on with her life”.

      Meanwhile, I will go on being a crazy misogynist who believes that women’s lives have value even if you don’t approve of the way they were conceived.

    • Joy Rose

      I’ll tell you what. You can try your best, with your mindset that if a man rapes a woman she can just go fix it with an abortion, to teach rapists to not be criminals anymore. Be sure to explain how his actions can cause permanent consequences when she is being ‘encouraged’.. in many cases, coerced.. into just having the baby killed and “going on with her life”.

      Meanwhile, I will go on being a crazy misogynist who believes that women’s lives have value even if you don’t approve of the way they were conceived.

  • Pro choice is not pro abortion

    Maybe you should be teaching men not to raps, rather than what a woman should do if she’s raped!
    Also every abortion deprives an adoptive couple? Really? They had no claim to said baby. And with that logic every egg that I lose each cycle deprives adoptive couples, so does me getting pregnant and keeping my baby

    You are crazy and a mysoginist

  • Mom

    No child deserves to die for the sins of the father.

  • Mom

    No child deserves to die for the sins of the father.

  • Mom

    No child deserves to die for the sins of the father.

  • skibum77

    I respect the author’s thoughts; however, the real issue that is being missed by everyone out there is the fact that programs that supported a pregnant woman in the past no longer exist. The real battle should be: to provide comprehensive prenatal care, nutritional care, financial support, counseling, housing, etc. to insure that a pregnant woman grows and brings forth a healthy baby into this world. The US still has one of the highest infant mortality rates in the world!!! The Salvation Army, for example, had for more than 50 years provided homes and prenatal care for unwed mothers; Catholic Chairites provided a home, counseling, prenatal care, education and training for pregnant teens. Long gone due to medical politics and funding cuts. The issue is not abortion, but the fact that we as a nation are failing pregnant women (pre-teen, teen, or adult aged) by not providing the medical care, support, and services necessary to create a better life for these individuals and their babies. Yet the US will support the high cost of medical care for all the preemies born, the drug-addicted births, because women did not have the necessary support to aide them in having a healthy baby! Many of you oppose Planned Parenthood, but realize this organization is one of the few that does provide childbirth classes, nutrtional guidelines, and prenatal care resources as well as life saving care for non-pregnant women. Yes they also do abortion counseling, and refer for abortions but guess what, so do hospitals and obstetricians you most likely know. Please, someone out there wake up and realize that it is less costly to create a healthy environment for a pregnant women to thrive in than it is to bring forth a sickly premature infant or drug addicted infant or one with numerous physical defects all caused through ignorance!! No one wants to adopt any of these children, many of whom do not survive after birth. It is fine to say adopt but not until we can assure more healthy children coming into this world who can readily be adobted!

    • Joy Rose

      The US does not have one of the highest infant mortality rates in the world. The US counts infant mortalities that other countries don’t. If your baby dies within an hour of birth, the US counts that as an infant mortality. In other countries, your baby could die within a couple of weeks of birth and not be considered in the infant mortality rate. Use their standards, and the US infant mortality rate is extremely low.

      “No one wants to adopt any of these children, many of whom do not survive after birth.” Say hello to my youngest sister, a bright, happy, whole child who was adopted from foster care by my parents. They got her as a week-old infant going through cocaine withdrawal. Their experience has brought me into contact with numerous couples who are *waiting* to adopt an unwanted baby, even a drug-addicted one who may not meet your definition of ‘adoptable’. Now I agree that child care is important, but you are making multiple errors in your argument, which sounds more like support for abortion than a genuine desire to end it.

    • Joy Rose

      The US does not have one of the highest infant mortality rates in the world. The US counts infant mortalities that other countries don’t. If your baby dies within an hour of birth, the US counts that as an infant mortality. In other countries, your baby could die within a couple of weeks of birth and not be considered in the infant mortality rate. Use their standards, and the US infant mortality rate is extremely low.

      “No one wants to adopt any of these children, many of whom do not survive after birth.” Say hello to my youngest sister, a bright, happy, whole child who was adopted from foster care by my parents. They got her as a week-old infant going through cocaine withdrawal. Their experience has brought me into contact with numerous couples who are *waiting* to adopt an unwanted baby, even a drug-addicted one who may not meet your definition of ‘adoptable’. Now I agree that child care is important, but you are making multiple errors in your argument, which sounds more like support for abortion than a genuine desire to end it.

    • Joy Rose

      The US does not have one of the highest infant mortality rates in the world. The US counts infant mortalities that other countries don’t. If your baby dies within an hour of birth, the US counts that as an infant mortality. In other countries, your baby could die within a couple of weeks of birth and not be considered in the infant mortality rate. Use their standards, and the US infant mortality rate is extremely low.

      “No one wants to adopt any of these children, many of whom do not survive after birth.” Say hello to my youngest sister, a bright, happy, whole child who was adopted from foster care by my parents. They got her as a week-old infant going through cocaine withdrawal. Their experience has brought me into contact with numerous couples who are *waiting* to adopt an unwanted baby, even a drug-addicted one who may not meet your definition of ‘adoptable’. Now I agree that child care is important, but you are making multiple errors in your argument, which sounds more like support for abortion than a genuine desire to end it.

  • skibum77

    I respect the author’s thoughts; however, the real issue that is being missed by everyone out there is the fact that programs that supported a pregnant woman in the past no longer exist. The real battle should be: to provide comprehensive prenatal care, nutritional care, financial support, counseling, housing, etc. to insure that a pregnant woman grows and brings forth a healthy baby into this world. The US still has one of the highest infant mortality rates in the world!!! The Salvation Army, for example, had for more than 50 years provided homes and prenatal care for unwed mothers; Catholic Chairites provided a home, counseling, prenatal care, education and training for pregnant teens. Long gone due to medical politics and funding cuts. The issue is not abortion, but the fact that we as a nation are failing pregnant women (pre-teen, teen, or adult aged) by not providing the medical care, support, and services necessary to create a better life for these individuals and their babies. Yet the US will support the high cost of medical care for all the preemies born, the drug-addicted births, because women did not have the necessary support to aide them in having a healthy baby! Many of you oppose Planned Parenthood, but realize this organization is one of the few that does provide childbirth classes, nutrtional guidelines, and prenatal care resources as well as life saving care for non-pregnant women. Yes they also do abortion counseling, and refer for abortions but guess what, so do hospitals and obstetricians you most likely know. Please, someone out there wake up and realize that it is less costly to create a healthy environment for a pregnant women to thrive in than it is to bring forth a sickly premature infant or drug addicted infant or one with numerous physical defects all caused through ignorance!! No one wants to adopt any of these children, many of whom do not survive after birth. It is fine to say adopt but not until we can assure more healthy children coming into this world who can readily be adobted!

  • rocketw

    According to Planned Parenthood’s (most recent) 2011 annual report, in that year, it performed 333,964 abortions. Up to 92% of its pregnant patients received abortions. Planned Parenthood does not provide the most important health screening procedure for women over 40 (mammograms). Childbirth classes? Not usually. Ultrasonography? NO. Planned Parenthood is a for-profit outfit that makes a lot of money on abortions. It is not a life-friendly organization, for either women or for unborn babies.

  • AuntBeast

    I’d like to add in two points that I have not yet seen in the comments. First of all, abortions ARE going to happen, but if they are outlawed the abortion providers will go underground and be far more dangerous – they will have no form of regulation, no standards. Women will die. As much as I wish that abortions never happened, I don’t believe that banning them is the solution.
    Second, if abortions ARE banned, there MUST also be increased funding to WIC programs and the like. It is simply not morally or socially sound to force a woman to carry to term a child that she cannot support and care for. Being a single mother is one of the most difficult challenges there is, and there should be adequate support available to raise and educate all children (in safe and stable environments).

    • Joy Rose

      Obama’s administration is trying to force Texas to abandon a law that would require abortion centers to have the same standards of cleanliness and professionalism as any outpatient surgery center. Abortion supporters are fighting laws and proposed laws in other states that merely require the minimum of safety standards in abortion centers. What is their big complaint? Too many centers will have to close if they’re required to submit.

      Given that, what on earth is the difference between the current state of affairs and the situation you describe, in which providers will go underground and be “far more dangerous” with “no form of regulation, no standards”? You say, “women will die.” Women already die. The drop in deaths due to abortion happened in the 1940′s when penicillin hit the scene, not in the 70′s when abortion was legalized.

      So what *is* the difference between abortion clinics now and the underground clinics should abortion be banned? Now, women flock to these clinics believing that, since they are legal, they are also safe.

    • Joy Rose

      Obama’s administration is trying to force Texas to abandon a law that would require abortion centers to have the same standards of cleanliness and professionalism as any outpatient surgery center. Abortion supporters are fighting laws and proposed laws in other states that merely require the minimum of safety standards in abortion centers. What is their big complaint? Too many centers will have to close if they’re required to submit.

      Given that, what on earth is the difference between the current state of affairs and the situation you describe, in which providers will go underground and be “far more dangerous” with “no form of regulation, no standards”? You say, “women will die.” Women already die. The drop in deaths due to abortion happened in the 1940′s when penicillin hit the scene, not in the 70′s when abortion was legalized.

      So what *is* the difference between abortion clinics now and the underground clinics should abortion be banned? Now, women flock to these clinics believing that, since they are legal, they are also safe.

    • Joy Rose

      Obama’s administration is trying to force Texas to abandon a law that would require abortion centers to have the same standards of cleanliness and professionalism as any outpatient surgery center. Abortion supporters are fighting laws and proposed laws in other states that merely require the minimum of safety standards in abortion centers. What is their big complaint? Too many centers will have to close if they’re required to submit.

      Given that, what on earth is the difference between the current state of affairs and the situation you describe, in which providers will go underground and be “far more dangerous” with “no form of regulation, no standards”? You say, “women will die.” Women already die. The drop in deaths due to abortion happened in the 1940′s when penicillin hit the scene, not in the 70′s when abortion was legalized.

      So what *is* the difference between abortion clinics now and the underground clinics should abortion be banned? Now, women flock to these clinics believing that, since they are legal, they are also safe.

    • Juda Myers

      Is murder illegal? But people still murder so why don’t we just legalize it?

      Why have we gotten so depraved to allow women to kill innocent babies? Is is because they can’t fight back? They have no voice? Not morally sound to force a women to carry a child? Only in this calloused stone cold society we now live in. This is a society that no longer believes in a God outside of themselves.

      • Breanna

        You do realize abortions have been a thing for thousands of years? The Romans were so crazy about a plant that caused abortions they imprinted the shape of its seed onto their money (a heart shape. The first time such shape was ever recorded. Think about that next time you use a heart) but that they ran the plant into extinction.

        • Juda Myers

          You do realize that evil has been around since creation? I don’t want to fund it or make it legal!! People distort and pervert good things all the time.

  • sadnana

    I would not insult a rape victim by telling her that I understood the pain she suffered because of the rape, But I fail to see how handing a death sentence to the other innocent party (the unborn child) will relieve her of that pain.

  • BabyBoomerGal

    Dr. Adams,

    You wrote: “Every time I am in a discussion of abortion that turns to the so called rape exception, there are two common denominators. First, it is always a guy. Second, he’s always sexually active”.

    Even though this just a discussion in cyberspace, meet a married Christian baby-boomer woman who believes believes abortions should be permitted (although not necessarily encouraged on a person-to-person level) for rape.victims who become pregnant. If a woman who becomes pregnant as result of rape and decides to carry the pregnancy, God bless her! I just don’t think she should be forced to do so.

    I would even say that any woman of childbearing age (and especially, say 16 y.o. or younger) who is raped should consider taking the morning-after pill when they report their rape. If they take this pill shortly after the rape, the woman might not be even be pregnant yet, or indeed might not even be pregnant at all. Maybe this could alleviate the guilt that she would feel if she chose an abortion at say 8-12 weeks gestation.

    In no way do I want to put down any one here who is a child conceived by rape or a descendant of a child conceived by rape. I rejoice that they are living happy and fulfilling lives, they are all loved by God, and that they aren’t accidents or mistakes.

    • Juda Myers

      Please don’t suggest anyone take the pill. It’s still aborting and you now leave the women with imagining they destroyed a baby but will never really know.

      Anna Richey on my board for CHOICES4LIFE was raped by her step father and pregnant at 12. He beat her and forced her to take an abortion pill and she lost her baby. At 13 she was pregnant again and told her mom. The man was imprisoned and Anna gave birth to a beautiful daughter. People were horrible to her… people who called themselves “Christians”, teachers and anyone else with an opinion.

      I work with women pregnant after rape and it’s always society’s misplaced compassion that causes the most trauma. Children are a blessing and God does not say only in certain cases.

      We need to do what is right by women. We force people to stop trying to kill themselves so why not force them to NOT kill their baby??

  • BabyBoomerGal

    Dr. Adams,

    You wrote: “Every time I am in a discussion of abortion that turns to the so called rape exception, there are two common denominators. First, it is always a guy. Second, he’s always sexually active”.

    Even though this just a discussion in cyberspace, meet a married Christian baby-boomer woman who believes believes abortions should be permitted (although not necessarily encouraged on a person-to-person level) for rape.victims who become pregnant. If a woman who becomes pregnant as result of rape and decides to carry the pregnancy, God bless her! I just don’t think she should be forced to do so.

    I would even say that any woman of childbearing age (and especially, say 16 y.o. or younger) who is raped should consider taking the morning-after pill when they report their rape. If they take this pill shortly after the rape, the woman might not be even be pregnant yet, or indeed might not even be pregnant at all. Maybe this could alleviate the guilt that she would feel if she chose an abortion at say 8-12 weeks gestation.

    In no way do I want to put down any one here who is a child conceived by rape or a descendant of a child conceived by rape. I rejoice that they are living happy and fulfilling lives, they are all loved by God, and that they aren’t accidents or mistakes.

  • Jennifer

    Thank God for after-morning pills. They take care of things well before the egg is even really in the zygote stage, with no chance of a horrific procedure later, and no one has to worry about a stranger “looking them in the eye”. As though the person calling in would have given this stranger their friend’s phone number.

    • Joy Rose

      Which pretty much comes down to the same issue… supporting abortion so that you can have unrestricted sex without worrying about the consequences. So that you can have a “final out” if the contraception fails.

      What you need to understand is that pregnancy is only the most obvious and hardest to hide consequence of unrestricted sex. Finding a way to abort it that doesn’t hurt your conscience as much does not in any way save you from the other consequences. In fact, it does just the opposite, as the morning-after pill does not protect you from any STD’s whatsoever.

    • Joy Rose

      Which pretty much comes down to the same issue… supporting abortion so that you can have unrestricted sex without worrying about the consequences. So that you can have a “final out” if the contraception fails.

      What you need to understand is that pregnancy is only the most obvious and hardest to hide consequence of unrestricted sex. Finding a way to abort it that doesn’t hurt your conscience as much does not in any way save you from the other consequences. In fact, it does just the opposite, as the morning-after pill does not protect you from any STD’s whatsoever.

    • Joy Rose

      Which pretty much comes down to the same issue… supporting abortion so that you can have unrestricted sex without worrying about the consequences. So that you can have a “final out” if the contraception fails.

      What you need to understand is that pregnancy is only the most obvious and hardest to hide consequence of unrestricted sex. Finding a way to abort it that doesn’t hurt your conscience as much does not in any way save you from the other consequences. In fact, it does just the opposite, as the morning-after pill does not protect you from any STD’s whatsoever.

    • Brit

      That’s an abortficant.

    • Juda Myers

      Conception is when all of our DNA makes us human. Any destruction after that only keeps that human from entering this world. Some people won’t learn this until they after this life!!

  • Jennifer

    Thank God for after-morning pills. They take care of things well before the egg is even really in the zygote stage, with no chance of a horrific procedure later, and no one has to worry about a stranger “looking them in the eye”. As though the person calling in would have given this stranger their friend’s phone number.

  • Lily

    It’s not like that at all. All you did was compare it to something else to take it away from the good point the previous person made. This isn’t about eating disorders.

    Sure, sex is originally to create more life on earth. But we’re not cavemen in desperate need of a more populous world (our world is over populated now, really). There is nothing wrong with using plan B. Sometimes people are not ready for a child, or at least not ready to go through a pregnancy of a child and give he/she to a couple. I have sex with my partner because it is an act that connects me to him, as its also does with other relationships. And it feels great. I don’t think in my mind about making a child as we make love. That’s not the reason I have sex. We’re not ready for one (eventually, but not now.) I don’t know, I just think that there are helpful things in our lives that we abuse as humans: marijuana, alcohol, certain antibiotics. These can be helpful, but there are always people who abuse it. Just like some people abuse emergency contraceptives and abortion. The keyword is “some”, not all. Emergency contraceptives aren’t solely used by irresponsible, stupid people who want an easy out. It’s often for people who are always responsible and made a mistake maybe just once. Or sometimes, the couple IS irresponsible and stupid due to being young and immature. They don’t understand the heavy weight of the life of a child, but forcing them to have the child and some sort of punishment for their actions isn’t the answer. Yes, a fifteen year old shouldn’t have sex that young, but they should definitely not have a child that young even more so. Sure, it takes a life away to have an abortion, but to not, it also ends the childhood of a young girl. It forces her to be an adult, even if she doesn’t keep the child. Because she had to go 9 month carrying a baby inside her, go through painful child birth, and also miss practically a year away from school (which puts a damper on her own education.) All so another couple could have an adoptive baby over a slightly older child stuck because people prefer to adopt a baby over an older child. And so that the child can grow and make friends and live an amazing life god gave to them, while their mother they might never meet can suffer for the rest of her own (not saying that she would never be happy, but most of her dreams she may have hoped to reach, are probably gone out of her grasp). Anyway, that’s my 2 cents. And only a bit of how I think. I didn’t want to be crazy and write an essay, haha.

    Also, no one said that other user didn’t use another form of contraceptive other than plan B to prevent STDs. Just saying.

    • Joy Rose

      You can’t possibly know what it’s really like to have a baby as a teenager, and I know several women who would find your viewpoint incredibly, incredibly insulting.

      Just so you know, before you go spouting off how much it ruins a girl’s life to bear her child alive, how she is not a ‘woman’ if she has sex as long as she doesn’t *gasp* finish a pregnancy (I know a couple of voluntarily childless women who are told by obnoxious people that they aren’t ‘real’ women because they haven’t had babies), or how it’s better for someone not engaged in a Perfect Conception to be killed before birth…

      I’m not the only one you wish was dead.

  • Sally

    Did you just skim over the part about their previous child dying if his/her disease? Do you honestly think that couple wanted to go through an entire pregnancy with hope their child would live even with the disease, only to have he/she die after a few years of loving him and growing attached, just like their other child. You were not in their situation. Saying you have endometriosis does not put you in their situation. Endometriosis makes you have killer painful periods, pain after intercourse, sometimes infertility (my aunt has it). But it wasn’t life threatening to you. Don’t even try to put that on the same level as a disease that slowly fills your lungs and suffocates you when you do die, where there is constant painful infection in your lungs and exhaustion tolling your body, and where the life expectancy if they live past childhood is maybe 30. That couple had every right to abort their child. Not because they wanted a “perfect” child. It’s cruel to make an assumption of them like that. They did it because they just watched a young child they loved dearly die, and didn’t want another to share the same fate.

    • Joy Rose

      But the other child *did* die, and they caused that child’s death, so that they wouldn’t have to “become attached”.

      I have had two miscarriages.

      I would never have wanted them to die so that I wouldn’t have to worry about “being attached”.

  • Keith Humphrey

    This is a good video on the “rape exception” issue:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrYOj3iwskk

  • Elyse

    A good picture of why the Lord has designed sexual activity to stay ONLY in the context of the marriage bed. He created sex and designed it to consummate a marital relationship, not just make babies.

  • Pro-Intelligence

    All of these ideas are based on the premise that humans have “souls” – which is debatable. If you end up pregnant – rape victim or not – and are not convinced that there are such things as an afterlife, souls, destiny, or any of that other nonsense, but are sure that the options you have – carrying the baby to term and giving it up, or keeping it – would not be good for you or the baby, why would you continue with the pregnancy if it’s early enough that you know you will cause the fetus/embryo no pain? I have a very close friend who lost her parents at a very young age. She has horrible memories of the foster care system that still plague her to this day (she’s 23 and was formally adopted at 5 years old). In no way do I wish she was never my friend or anything of that nature, but if she had never been born – here’s the thing – I would be ignorant of her existence, as would everyone else be. No one would be “worse off” if she hadn’t been here. It is sad to think about now, because she has had such a wonderful affect on the people around her, but that logic doesn’t work if you’re looking at it from the standpoint of her not being here at all in the first place. There are thousands of children who are given up because the parents are incapable of taking care of them, and where do those children go? The foster care system – where they often stay for a very long time. Not every orphaned child gets adopted – in fact a large percentage of them don’t – in spite of the fact that Christians are charged with caring for orphans and widows. So, until the foster care system is fixed and women know without a doubt that there is a safe place to take the children they have decided not to mercifully, I would say, remove from the pain of being rejected and bounced around from person to person – I will support abortions in early pregnancy as a viable option for those who are not breaking their moral compasses by having them. With the intense population problem we’re having today, I’ll probably continue to support it afterward.

    • narrowdoor30

      Souls? I don’t think so. It’s based on the premise that a human being is a human being with the same intrinsic value, no matter the stage of his/her development. What you are saying is basically that terminating millions is just fine, as long as we didn’t get to know them and were told they didn’t had to suffer …..it’s like concentration camps and the oven were just fine, as long as you keep me ignorant of their existence. Would you have argued in 1856 that we should only abandon the practice of slavery if we can insure that these slaves are better off when freed? Only if we can provide housing, food and basic supplies for all of them, only then would it be wise to end slavery….?? You are excusing the termination of millions with a lack of support if we don’t terminate them? And then you drop the negative eugenics bomb at the end? Well, at least you are honest about it ….because it is the REAL reason for most people’s support of elective abortion. They are for the reduced reproduction of people with less-desired or undesired traits. It IS that plain and simple ….but of course most will dance around that one, like we’ve just seen here with you. It’s extrinsic vs. intrinsic value. Nothing more, but nothing less. It’s the “enlightened” social-darwinist crowd vs. the “We hold these truths to be self-evident…created equal…endowed with unalienable Rights…like LIFE..” crowd. It is THAT simple….

  • Anonymous

    What about the husband that thinks take should be an exception because he can’t bear having that “bastard child” be a part of the population since he’s seen so many screwed up people in his line of work and imagines any child conceived by rape would be screwed up too.

    • Francine

      Why would the fact that the child was conceived by rape automatically mess the baby up?

      • Juda Myers

        It doesn’t. Many of us who were conceived after rape are contributing greatly to society. But look at Hitler …. His parents were married!!!

    • Juda Myers

      If he is any decent human being he will not want the death of an innocent child. Anonymous? Why?
      I know hundreds of children conceived in rape. 97% of them are serving Christ!! Pastors, worship leaders teachers and more. How can anyone deny our praise to our Creator? We are all created by God and not the will of men. go to http://www.choices4life.org and see the faces of rape conceived and what they are contributing to society before you deem us to preconceived ideas. Some are EMT, Firefighters, doctors, military, police, and even a mayor!!

      Oh BTW you probably have lineage of someone who was raped because in all the war rapes and other secret rapes over the life of this planet I hardly think you or anyone else could have escaped with a pure bloodline.

      I know hundreds that have remained secret because of “bastard child” and “demon seed” comments. The moms are insulted for loving their children.
      My own mother was raped by 8 men and she placed me for adoption because my grandmother and the dr wanted me dead! not the rapists but me! When I met her 48 yrs later she was thrilled to meet me saying she loved me so much. I helped her heal after the rape.

      But I do know several who have husbands who KNOW that child did nothing deserving to be hated. Thank God for people you think things through.

      • Joe

        >>I know hundreds of children conceived in rape.

        Really? I don’t know in any detail how a single one of my friends or colleagues was conceived.

        • Juda Myers

          If you aren’t one of them they probably won’t risk the insults by telling you. We are called demon seeds and everything else and our mothers are called whores for wanting us.

          So if you had a secret that you knew most of society would insult you and target you for death would YOU be talking about it??

      • Charity Snyder Heaton

        do you ask people how they were conceived?

        • Juda Myers

          No but I tell people what I do and THEY tell me! Not too hard to figure out really.

      • Charity Snyder Heaton

        you know hundreds who remained secret? if it was a secret..how do you know? This is why many pro life people are not being taken seriously…exaggerating the case makes you look like a lunatic and people do not take lunatics seriously

        • David

          I’m thinking she works for the pro-life organization she keeps referencing. Perhaps she’s a counselor. That would be an instance in which she would know. But hey, she is pro-life, so it’s only reasonable to immediately dismiss her as a lunatic based on her views, right?

          • Charity Snyder Heaton

            pretty much…when you start saying you know how hundreds of people were conceived…you lose credibility…also even if your theory is correct (she volunteers at a crisis pregnancy organization say)…what are the chances she is going to hear from the hundreds of people who are at peace with their decision to abort b/c carrying a baby conceived in rape was not the right thing for them…you are only going to hear one side of the story

          • Juda Myers

            Sad that you “think” you know something when you clearly don’t and hence proving why so many women do not want to speak out. You don’t want to know truth. So you will never know the truth. YOU are contributing to all the women hiding in shame that they don’t deserve.

          • Juda Myers

            Thank you David. I started the first org specifically helping women pregnant after rape. I do counsel women and listen to them telling me the same story. No one believes them.

        • Juda Myers

          Because I AM one of them who speaks internationally!They feel comfortable telling a child conceived when 8 men raped her mom. I have the first organization that is helping these girls/women. There are almost 100 in a secret facebook group. I’ve been speaking out for 10 years.

          You really ought to think before writing. And the number is around 250 that I’ve spoken to. Just today a woman asked what I “do” and I told her. She told me that her daughter aborted a rape conceived baby when she was 16 and is suicidal now drinking herself to death. Add that one to the list! She didn’t even tell her own mother at the time!

          Hope that helps you. http://www.choices4life.org has many who ARE public with their stories. I am working with three girls right now who are NOT.

  • Jodye Rudolph

    Let’s say abortion is banned. What then when a woman goes to the hospital suffering from etopic pregnancy? Abortion is illegal so the fetus can’t be removed. The fallopian tube ruptures and the woman dies by bleeding to death because the operation that would have saved her life is illegal. What then of molar pregnancy, or empty egg pregnancy? These pregnancies can and do turn cancerous. These women die too because what would have saved them is illegal. What then when your sister, mother, aunt, cousin, or even yourself suffers from pregnancy complications that you die from because what would have saved you is illegal. What about women like me were pregnancy is a death sentence? Our bodies simply can’t support a baby. Is it fair, or right, that I have to die so my child can be born? Excuse me, but I want to live.

    • Juda Myers

      Thomas Smith was an ectopic pregnancy.Drs would cut his mom open to kill him but they would not do a C-section to save both! So they forced her to deliver her baby ripping her as he was born. WHY? Talk to drs who care and they’ll tell you that most times the baby will not live and the body will reasborb the baby. Sometimes the baby will drop into the uterus and yes there are the times when the baby must be removed. Methotrexate is used way too many times with the sole purpose of killing the baby chemically. Abortions cause cancer but I’ve never heard of an ectopic pregnancy “turn to cancer”. A dr told me that drs want to cover their own rear in case something does happen so they’d rather kill the baby since that seems to be so acceptable in the guise of saving the mom.

      I have known several women who are told that the baby is deformed and will not live and the mom delivers a perfectly healthy baby. Abortion is the first thing people thing of these days. So very very sad.

      Why not treat each woman like the individual she is? Abortion for rape or incest is more harmful to the woman than abortion in any other case. Instead of helping that woman they add to the trauma. I’ve been told by several who aborted after rape that they were worse than the rapist because they were allowed to live yet they turned on their own innocent baby and killed them.

      And society pushes them saying that child is a “demon seed” or they will remind the woman of the rape. I’ve been told that women realize their baby is the only good thing to happen after that trauma. The ones who abort say it’s worse than the rape.

      Lots of real life stories and videos at http://www.choices4life.org

    • Brit

      Ectopic pregnancies do not require abortion- abortion is the intent kill the unborn child- whereas the removal of a tube in an ectopic pregnancy isn’t with intent to kill the child but to save the woman. It’s all about intent. And seeing as the “life of mother” is barely 1% of abortions, it’s clear to see that abortions are never needed.

  • Juda Myers

    Thank you for posting this. The more discussions we have and the more moms and children of rape conception speaking out the better chance that rape conception prejudice will be erased. It’s a long hard battle.

  • Joe

    Let’s just let the woman decide. Rather than decide for her.

    • Juda Myers

      Would you say that if she were going to kill you?

  • Joe

    Could not agree more.

  • macdonald@alphacomm.net

    Let’s think about rape from a logical and legal point of view. For abortion to be an exception for rape (or incest, since incest is usually rape) one has to prove that a rape actually occurred. Stick with me. I’m not a lawyer but I’m married to one.

    How do you prove a rape has occurred? First, a crime is reported. An investigation ensues and arrest is made. Next there’s the arraignment, bail hearings, etc. After weeks or months, a trial date is set. See where I’m going with this? By the time someone is actually convicted of rape, it’s a moot point. The baby has already been born.

    Some might say that the woman can go to the police station immediately after the violation and request the morning-after pill. Okay, fair enough. But how do the authorities know that it’s not just a ploy to obtain the pill after a night of unprotected fun and games?

    Sometimes the best argument needs to take a different direction to reach those that refuse to see the biology.

    • doreenmcgettigan

      I don’t think its right to punish a rape victim because some women have no morals and might be lying about being raped.
      I hate abortion but I have also been raped. You have NO idea of how that violence and fear can and does still affect me today. The pain of being looked at, like you may be lying is unbearable and spirit killing.
      I believe the morning after pill should be offered to every sexual assault victim immediately. It should at least be offered.

      • Juda Myers

        I am so sorry that you weren’t believed. THAT is our problem NOT babies. We need to spend more time STOPPING rape instead of stopping the life of innocent babies

  • Juda Myers

    “product of rape” Stop the hate speech. I am no more a “product” than you are. Do some more “detective” work and you’ll find the definition for fetus. Speaking another language does NOT change meanings.

  • Juda Myers

    Guess what it was illegal for 200 years. And we did just fine. Not that it’s legal over 60 million people have died in the womb and others (mothers) have died also. Women have higher rates of cancer and suicide but that doesn’t seem to bother you.

    • Charity Snyder Heaton

      “we did just fine”..perhaps the hundreds of women who died of botched abortions before it was legal would not agree with you were they here to speak

      • Juda Myers

        Before or after people will die from ripping innocent children from their mother’s body.
        People die from all kinds of things but we don’t make it legal to kill innocent babies unless they are in the womb that was made for them.

  • haleybird1952

    It should always be a woman’s choice. People should keep their opinions to themselves rather than trying to push their beliefs off on others dealing with their private decision about their body’s. If you don’t believe in abortions that’s ok, but if you do that’s ok too because it is a private matter and not for society to determine whether a person should or should not have a child. TO EACH HIS OWN… NUFF SAID…!

    • Pauline Wolak

      There are several flaws in your logic, Haley. First, a baby is a separate life than the mother. The “woman’s choice” argument doesn’t hold water. She isn’t cutting off her own arm, my dear. She’s considering killing another human being. Secondly, Planned Parenthood receives how much in federal subsidies? When the public’s money keeps these places operating, abortion becomes a very public decision. Most importantly, I along with many other Americans don’t believe in the willful murder of innocent children. That you do is really NOT ok with me. This “live and let live” attitude has it’s place. But not when it comes to abortion.

    • Judah Hoover

      Please be nice to Haley. The only opinion she is trying to push is the idea that pushing opinions is wrong. If you don’t believe in being nice to people online that’s okay, I wont try to stop you from being mean to her, it is after all a private matter.

    • narrowdoor30

      1856 democrat: “It should always be the owner’s choice. People should keep their opinions
      to themselves rather than trying to push their beliefs off on others
      dealing with their private decision about their property. If you don’t
      believe in slavery that’s ok, but if you do that’s ok too because it
      is a private matter and not for society to determine whether a person
      should or should not have slave-property. TO EACH HIS OWN… NUFF SAID…!” ….not much has changed in their argument, when it comes to intrinsic vs. extrinsic value…

  • 4lifeandfreedom

    Mike Adams says it like it is, and I am so glad that he won his professorship at this university. Keep standing for the RIGHT.
    haleybird1952: What a shame that you do not understand or wish not to understand that in every abortion a killing takes place. Think about where you came from–are you not fortunate that your mother did not CHOOSE to get rid of you because of any inconvenience or rape or incest? The Supreme Court in 1973 made a law of the land that has affected the entire nation for these 41 years, including the “so much garbage” aspect of over 56 million unborn babies and also, so many who are born. Are you ascribing to the reality that these unborn babies are being used as fuel for heat in some areas of the world? Not” Nuff Said,” but hope you read Mike Adams’ article again and realize you are determining that God’s creation does not deserve to live!

  • Cris Kramschuster

    Until there is real support for pro-life rape survivors fighting rapist child custody (still legal in 19 states) pro-lifers won’t be taken seriously on this issue. Hope After Rape Conception . org

    • narrowdoor30

      So you are saying, as long as there isn’t a 100% commitment from the pro-life community to fight against the possibility that he/she could be ending up with the rapist as a legal guardian, you don’t take their commitment to prevent his/hers termination seriously? As long as there is a window of possibility, they needs to be the option to terminate him/her instead? ….are YOU serious?

  • mcrognale

    BRAVO!!!!!

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