TEN REASONS: Why Pathetic Pastors Stay Silent on Serious Issues

Here are 10 reasons why pastors avoid political and cultural issues:

1. Fear of man. If you purport to be a man of “the cloth”, then your regard for God and his opinion must trump the trepidation of the creature he created from spit and mud. Come on, man of God – don’t fear us. We’re ants with cell phones who’ll shoot Botox into our foreheads. We’re friggin’ weird and fickle weather vanes of the modern media. Lead us – don’t just follow us!

Man of God, fear God! Declare his will and his way and let the chips fall where they may. Within both the Old and New Testaments there are very unmuddled, eternal opinions on current political issues. These opinions should be embraced and shouldn’t be publicly curbed and bridled because some deranged deacon, some quacky congregant or a preening politician doesn’t agree with the scripture and might get their panties in a wad over a particular political issue. Never live for a nod from the congregation or some political twerp or a particular party, especially when said group is way off biblical base.

2. Ignorance. Most people are not bold in areas where they are ignorant … always excepting Michael Moore, of course. I know keeping up with all the pressing political issues is maddening but that’s life, Dinky, and if you want to be a voice in society and not an echo, you have got to be in the know. Staying briefed, running each political issue through the gauntlet of the scripture and determining God’s mind on a certain subject is par for the course, for the hardy world changer. It’s the information age. Get informed and watch your boldness increase.

3. Division. I hate the current non-essential divisions in the church as much as the next acerbic Christian columnist. Squabblin’ over the color of the carpet, who’ll play the organ next Sunday or who the Beast of Revelation is! Puhleese!

Dial down on the inconsequential seditiousness, okay, Jedediah? Relax. Go into the desert and get focused. The church is currently so divided and defeated with such minutiae that we can’t agree on which shade of white to use for our surrender flag.

4. Last Days Madness. Many ministers do not get involved in political issues because they believe that, “it simply doesn’t matter” since “the end has come”, and Jehovah is about to run the credits on this failed earth flick. These defeatists believe that any change in the jet stream, war, earthquakes, success of a corrupt politician, even a new Britney Spears video, is “proof” that God is getting really, really, ticked off and His only recourse is to have Christ physically return and kick some major butt.

Their only hope is in ‘The Rapture’. They see the church and themselves as impotent and having no real ability to change things culturally with any long-range ramifications. Thus, any stab at a better tomorrow is simply an exercise in futility for this crew. Attempting to right culture is, in their eyes, equivalent to polishing brass on a sinking ship. They are, therefore, content to simply pass out tracts, tramp from Christian rock concert to Christian rock concert, eat fatty foods, and stare at Christian TV.

5. Sloth. Classically defined, sloth is lethargy stemming from a sense of hopelessness. Viewing our nation and the world as an irreparable disaster, where our exhortations, prayers, votes and labors will not produce any temporal fruit, leaves one with all the fervor of a guy who’s forced to French kiss his sister.

If you wonder why your flock is so apathetic, ask yourself, Pastor Grim Carnage, if you have stolen their earthly hope that their valiant efforts can actually prevail in time, and not just in eternity. If you constantly pump the doom and gloom message, if you teach them that evil will ultimately triumph on our terra firma, if you spew messages that consciously or unconsciously convey “big anti-Christ and little Jesus Christ”, then you have effectively zapped what’s left of your parishioners passion.

6. Tax Exemption Pre-emption. Many pastors, priests and parishioners have been cowed into inactivity by the supposed loss of their tax-exempt status if they say anything remotely political. This can make folks who don’t or won’t get good legal advice as politically active as Howard Hughes during the flu season … but it needn’t.

First of all, there’s no need to have an IRS 501[c][3] tax-exempt charitable status to assemble and be a proper church. The church has been around a little bit longer than the 501 [c][3] statutes, right? We are afforded the right to assemble, by God and by the Constitution. Not having the tax exempt status simply means you’ll have to pay taxes at Costco when you buy hot dogs for the church picnic.

Secondly, 501[c][3] or not, we are called to obey God rather than men, and God has called his leaders to be involved in civic affairs, and to represent Christ and his word in all areas of society. And that entails expounding the biblical worldview all the time, including election time. Sometimes you have to rebel against unrighteous, limiting laws. There’s nothing wrong with proper civil disobedience when the need arises, especially if the government tries to stifle your scriptural rights and obligations.

Off the clock, in his personal capacity, the pastor or priest can endorse and support – or oppose – whoever or whatever he wishes, like any other citizen. There are no limitations to the individual; the ones which do exist under the 501[c][3] statute are only for the church entity and/or the pastor in his official capacity, not for the pastor or the members who make up the church.

7. Paltry pietism and the separation from the world mentality. Pastors and priests avoid politics because such concerns are “unspiritual”, and their focus is on the “spirit world”. Yes, to such imbalanced ministers, political affairs are seen as “temporal and carnal”, and because pastors and priests trade in the “eternal and spiritual”, such “transient” issues get the same attention from them as Rosie’s AbBlaster does from her.

What drives this type of clergy and Christian? Well, this brand of believer desires a “personal relationship with Jesus only” type of religion. This bunch is primarily into heavenly emotions and personal Bible study, tucked away from society and its complicated issues. Being preoccupied with looking inward and upward, such solipsistic saints inadvertently chain themselves to the never ending treadmill of spiritual introspection. They forget that they are commanded to be seriously engaged with our culture. The effects of this type of “Christian” separatism/pietism proved disastrous in pre-Nazi Germany, and aided and abetted Hitler in mounting his hellish warhorse.

8. The Thought Police have Tali-banned us. Pastors and priests have muffled their political voice because they fear being lumped in with the radical Muslim extremists by the politically correct thought police. The correlation made between Christians’ non-violent attempts at policy persuasion and Taliban’s kill-you-in-your-sleep campaigns is nothing more than pure uncut crapola. Here’s what I’m talking about: A minister who wants to protect the unborn, preserve the Biblical and traditional view of marriage, maintain our nation’s basis in some semblance of Biblical righteousness all of the sudden gets grouped up with Osama and his nuclear-suitcase-carrying cabal.

Ministers, please blow off the tongue wagging blowhards who try to intimidate you into silence by making quantum ludicrous scat laden analogous leaps in equating the implementation of a Biblical worldview with the Taliban’s cross-eyed perspective.

9. Mothering the Minute. Ministers can’t get involved in studying or speaking out regarding political issues simply because of the ten tons of minutiae they are forced to field. Spending time wet nursing 30-year-olds without a life and being bogged down in committee meetings over which shade of pink paint should be used for the Woman’s Aglow ministerial wing of their church, ministers are lucky if they get to study the scripture nowadays, much less anything else.

In the unending, need-driven narcissistic American church, pastors work overtime for spiritually overweight parishioners regarding issues that ultimately are inconsequential. This is both the fault of the ministers (messiah complex) and fault of the congregants (me-monkey syndrome), and both have got to have an exorcism or something if the church is going to tackle pressing cultural issues.

10. It’ll cost them Money. The creepy thing about a lot of ministers is their unwillingness to give political offense when offense is needed, simply because taking a biblical stand on a political issue might cost them their time share in Aspen and their Chrysler Mini-Van. Oh well, what do you expect? Christ had his Judas and evangelicalism has it cheap prostitutes.

Anytime a pastor takes a sturdy stand on a substantial issue, it usually ends up offending some people. If a congregant gets angry because you have just barbequed his favorite ideological golden calf, his cash will leave weeks before his physical body departs to find a church that’ll tickle his ears.

Never fear, pastor. Even though nailing your colors to the mast during putrid political times might cost you a parishioner or two, don’t sweat it. There are also tens of thousands of serious parishioners who are looking for leaders with the ‘nads to lead the church to make its proper stance during days of declension. So, my advice to you, Mr. Minister, would be to stay the Biblical course against the secular corrupters. I guarantee you four things:

God will send you better soldiers of the cross,

He will supernaturally increase your revenue to labor for His cause,

You won’t have to look the other way when you approach a mirror, and –

You will sleep better at night knowing that cash couldn’t buy your convictions.

If Christian ministers would crucify their fear of man, get solidly briefed regarding the chief political issues, not sweat necessary division, not get caught up in last days madness, maintain their hope for tomorrow, understand their liberties under God and our Constitution, not become so heavenly minded they’re no earthly good, focus on the majors and blow off bowing to cash instead of convictions, then maybe … just maybe, we will see their influence cause our nation to take a righteous turn away from the secularist’s putrid path.

About the author: Doug Giles

Doug Giles is the Big Dawg at ClashDaily.com and the Co-Owner of The Safari Cigar Company. Follow him on Facebook and Twitter. And check out his new book, Rise, Kill and Eat: A Theology of Hunting from Genesis to Revelation.

View all articles by Doug Giles

  • RhondaOR

    More rubbish from the rubbish salesman, Doug Giles

    • Cleaner

      Oh, really? Tell us, then, tell us why, fill this forum with your intelligence….

      • Freddy Neat Shee

        I’m going to get some wading boots first, which I can throw away afterwards. Odds are her “intelligence” is going to smell a lot like fertilizer.

    • toomuchsense

      RhondaOR, your claim to fame is? Oh, Ignorance!!

    • ezekiel22

      O Rhonda I came from Oregon too. You can do better and you can answer questions too.

  • John Kirkwood


  • Andrew Linn

    Reasons # 6 and # 8 are a major source of the problem, because pastors’ hands are being tied legally (e.g. IRS).

    • http://theawakenednation.ning.com/profile/KevinMKeener Snowman8wa


      Their hands are not tied, the Faith and Freedom Coalition came out in 2012 with a breakdown (pdf files) of WHAT a Church and WHAT the Pastor CAN and CANNOT DO regarding their 501(c),(3) Status……Either these pastors are ignorant and/or misinformed, or they are capitulent and too lazy to FIGHT for GOD succumbing to the wishes of “man”.

      Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis

  • Tracy Paul

    Very accurate. A lot of ministers/priests/preachers are afraid of getting into trouble in one way or another. They need to focus more on what they need to get across to people, not how they’ll feel about it or act. A child doesn’t like to get punished, but they need it. They need to be told No. Too many people go to church to play, have fun, and socialize. It’s supposed to be about praising God and trying to better yourself through Him, not looking good next to your neighbor and gossiping. That’s why so many people go to church and yet most of them aren’t really saved. It’s all an act and those that minister to the masses should be ashamed they’ve let people become lazy. Stop preaching the same old stuff and staying away from anything that could make someone feel uncomfortable. Talk about spiritual warfare. Talk about how we aren’t living as we should. Talk about how we need to punish our children and teach them what’s in the Bible, not what we want it to say, but what it really does say. Stop saying God is okay with people being gay. He destroyed cities over this. This is why after trying many, many churches, I teach Biblical Studies as part of my homeschool curriculum.

  • hollywoodron

    Wow… awesome… why I left my church! Wow… I’m so glad… God must be waking us all up. I have found a politically charged church via Rev Jesse Lee Peterson here in Los Angeles… and my old church shrugs off these very issues. I do believe an awakening is occuring. Ekklesia… is the greek word of 70A.D. that was used by the apostles concerning their congregation… it does not mean church… it means political assembly.

  • AR154U

    IRS, ACLU, DNC and LGBT are just looking for any excuse to audit, sue, demean and attack your faith and church at a moments notice. Men of the cloth today are mostly spade and neutered government props!

    • ezekiel22

      Love it a lot.

  • Derrick Rows

    Since we gain most of liberty’s benefits from the use of liberty by those unseen to us, others’ liberty is just as important as our own.

  • http://www.norad.mil/ Dr_Falken

    Our church had to get a new organist when our Priest was giving a homily that referenced NPR, and how we should treat illegal immigrants with deference, and how we need to pass Obamacare because that’s the only way that illegals from Mexico and other countries will be able to “take part in the best Healthcare System in the world”. It should be noted that the Priest escaped Eastern Europe (Georgia, Poland, Belarus – I’m not really sure) in the late 80’s / early 90’s.

    The organist interrupted his homily by playing the opening notes of the Soviet National Anthem, and Father Marx (not his real name) decided it would be a good idea to shut his goulash-hole and move on with the Mass.

    Strangely, however, the people in the Church that donate the most money didn’t seem to have an issue with what Fr Marx was saying, and instead pushed to have the organist removed. I’m still a little PO’ed at that.

    • http://theawakenednation.ning.com/profile/KevinMKeener Snowman8wa

      “Our church had to get a new organist when our Priest was giving a homily that referenced NPR,”
      “HISTORY: The pipe organ has existed, in various forms, for many centuries. The term
      “organ” comes from the Greek word “organon,” which basically means “tool” or
      “instrument.” From this word came the Latin word “organum.” By the Middle Ages,
      the term “organ” was used to refer to the pipe organ. Ctesibius of Alexandria,
      Egypt, a musician and engineer who lived around 200 B.C., is generally credited
      with building the first pipe organ, the hydraulic.”
      Man was singing and spreading exhortations to GOD long before 200 B.C. Without the aid of an organ; it is the organist’s loss……you can go to a sucessful plan “B” until you find a TRUE BELIEVER who also plays the organ. Our situation was a drummer………we did without until GOD provided us another drummer……..when GOD saw our need, on his time.
      Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis

      • RedStateKitty

        I think you might have missed the point here….The organist was showing his disagreement with the unbiblical teaching that the pastor was giving. Too bad the moneybags supporting the church financially took the pastor/priest’s side against the musician. I agree more with the musician who interrupted the sermon, and whilst I might not have agreed with how he did it I certainly would have made it clear that he (the priest) wasn’t teaching in line with scripture!

        • http://theawakenednation.ning.com/profile/KevinMKeener Snowman8wa

          I DID MISS THAT!…..thank you…So much for speed perusing….

          Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis

    • RedStateKitty

      That’s some musician, to know that music from heart! Since the pastor was from that area of the world, I wonder, did he recognise the song?

      You really need to not be supporting that church with your $$ and your time/talent, since the leadership seems not to want to follow or obey scriptural teaching!

      • http://www.norad.mil/ Dr_Falken

        The Priest didn’t let the organist finish the song — and the organist was playing it in protest because she was from Vladivostok (I may have the name spelled incorrectly) and escaped Communism, and, from what she told me, was playing it to remind him that he was sounding more like a Party member than a Priest.

        I don’t know how many people in the congregation recognized it, but Fr. Marx certainly did — it takes a *lot* to shut him up when he has a full head of steam going.

        There was a Brother Knight in the congregation that had served in a diplomatic capacity for the US, in dealing with the USSR, and he definitely recognized it (and thought it would be offensive to both the Church and the Communist Party to have it played on a Church Organ. It turns out there was someone in the audience that was recording part of it on his cell phone — I’ll see if I can find a way to post some audio of it somewhere.

  • docdave1

    I am constantly asked, “Chuck, why don’t pastors take a stand and speak
    out?” I’ve been a pastor most of my adult life. I believe I am qualified to
    answer that question. Here is the stark reality: the vast majority of pastors
    today are “success” oriented. Beginning in Bible College or seminary, and
    continuing throughout a pastor’s ministerial life, the emphasis is success. And
    that means church growth, larger congregations, bigger buildings, bigger
    offerings, burgeoning statistics, greater notoriety, denominational praise,
    invitations to speak at conferences, applause from fellow ministers, not to
    mention the financial perks and benefits that come with pastoring a
    “successful” church.

    And the way to learn how to build a successful church is to learn from those
    who have done it. Pastors regularly attend church growth conferences to learn
    from the “big” church pastors on how it’s done. They purchase books, magazines,
    newsletters, etc., that are all geared towards telling pastors how to build a
    successful church. They are constantly being schooled in the latest and
    greatest “how to” strategies of church growth and success. This usually entails
    more and more sophisticated programs, music, sound, lighting, atmosphere,
    classes, seminars, organization, etc. Everything, and I mean everything, is
    geared toward success as described in the aforementioned paragraph.

    Most pastors today are in reality not spiritual shepherds as much as they
    are corporate CEOs. The same mentality, philosophy, and strategy that drive
    corporate boardrooms also drive the boardrooms of modern churches–to a tee.
    Pastors act like CEOs, dress like CEOs, talk like CEOs, manage like CEOs, and
    think like CEOs.

    Dare I say that even the way pastors and churches cater, and “reach out,”
    and “minister,” etc., has mostly to do with “good business.” Church members are
    babied and pacified and stroked and petted and fawned-over because it is “good
    business.” Today’s Christians are so spoiled and petted that any dereliction or
    lack of attention by a pastor, church, or staff usually results in them “moving
    their letter” down the street to a place that will more readily cater to their
    temperamental demands.

    Have you not noticed how most pastors spiritualize away the great examples
    of Bible heroism and defiance against tyranny and despotism? Ask them point
    blank about Daniel and the lion’s den or the three Hebrew children in the
    burning fiery furnace or Queen Esther or scores and scores of other acts of
    defiance lauded in Holy Writ and they will say, “That was another time.” Or,
    they might say, “This shows God’s great deliverance and protection.” But the
    overriding principle that drove the great heroes of the faith to challenge and
    defy evil government is never even acknowledged, much less addressed.

    The great lesson of the above-mentioned heroes and heroines is not that God
    delivered them, because many of them were NOT delivered. As Paul notes in
    Hebrews 11: “Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance…And others had
    trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and
    imprisonment: they were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were
    slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being
    destitute, afflicted, tormented…they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and
    in caves of the earth.” (Hebrews 11:35-38 KJV). The great lesson of the
    above-mentioned heroes and heroines is their willingness to defy evil
    authority–regardless of outcome. Listen to the three Hebrew children:

    “Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said to the king, O
    Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter. If it be so,
    our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and
    he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king. But if not, be it known unto
    thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden calf
    which thou hast set up.” (Daniel 3:16-18 KJV)

    These men knew that God COULD deliver them, but they did not know if He
    WOULD deliver them. And to them, it didn’t matter: they were willing to defy
    the tyranny of King Nebuchadnezzar regardless. They were not going to bow to
    the unlawful, illegitimate authority of the state (in whatever form it
    appeared). That is the glaring lesson of every single one of these great stories
    of defiance.

    Furthermore, most pastors and teachers absolutely refuse to tell the truth
    of Hebrews 11:34: “[They] waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies
    of the aliens.” This Biblical passage lauds the courage of past believers who
    took up the sword against tyrants and despots. In the same breath that Paul
    extolled the sacrifice of believers who were willing to die for their faith, he
    also extolled the bravery of believers who were willing to fight for their
    faith. But you NEVER hear that from the vast majority of pastors today.

    If you hear any mention of, say, America’s Founding Fathers from today’s
    pastors, it is that the founders were wrong, that they violated Romans 13, that
    God did not lead them to declare independence and revolt against the British
    Crown. Such is the ignorance and cowardice of today’s ministers.

    And while we are on the subject, the misinterpretation of Romans 13 is one
    of the chief reasons why most pastors and churches are so utterly indifferent
    or nonplussed about resisting evil government. This is why my son and I
    coauthored the book, “Romans 13: The True Meaning of Submission.” I encourage
    readers to get this book and share it with as many of your Christian friends as
    possible. In the book, Tim and prove from the entire Bible–including Romans
    13–that nowhere does God expect (much less demand) believers to submit to
    evil, wicked authority.

    Order the Romans 13 book here:

    Romans 13 Truth

    Tim (a constitutional attorney) and I coauthored a second book that is also
    relevant to this discussion. It is called, “To Keep or Not To Keep: Why
    Christians Should Not Give Up Their Guns.” This book searches the entire Bible
    and conclusively proves that self-defense is not only a God-ordained right; it
    is a God-ordained DUTY–and that Christians are totally justified in NOT
    surrendering their means of self-defense to any civil authority.

    Order “To Keep or Not To Keep: Why Christians Should Not Give Up Their Guns”

    Keep Your Arms

    The fact is that all of these great Bible stories of lawful, God-ordained
    defiance of unjust authority are totally ignored by the vast majority of
    today’s pastors and churches. None of these great Bible truths are made
    relevant to attempted acts of tyranny in today’s America. None of them.

    Again, it is all about success. To the average pastor, nothing is as
    anathema as controversy. And nothing is more controversial than politics.
    Therefore, pastors are taught to avoid politics like the plague. Of course,
    they won’t tell you that the controversial nature of politics is the reason
    they avoid it; they will tell you that “God has not called me to get involved
    in politics,” or, “I’m trying to build a church,” or, “That’s not our mission,”
    or any number of other pious-sounding clichés. But the reality is they are
    trying to be successful, and they believe controversy hinders success.

    That’s also why you seldom, if ever, hear “hard” sermons from the modern
    pulpit–even though that is exactly the kind of sermons that Jesus Himself
    preached. (See John 6:60) To the success-driven, religious CEO, people must
    always feel good; they must be permanently ensconced in their comfort zone; and
    they must never be rebuked or informed of misconduct or irresponsibility. And
    as far as freedom goes, the shallowness of the average pulpit refuses to
    acknowledge the responsibility of the church to do anything to preserve it. All
    they talk about is praying for your political leaders and being good little
    subjects of the state.

    Plus, don’t forget that most churches are up to their eyeballs in debt.
    Therefore, pastors are afraid if they offend people offerings will go down and
    they might not be able to pay for all of those fancy buildings and exorbitant
    staff–not to mention their own personal financial perks might be endangered.

    And, yes, I must also add that the 501c3 non-profit tax-exempt status most
    churches operate under poses a serious intimidation against the pastor and
    church, which keeps them from taking a stand or speaking out on issues that
    might be construed as political.

    But here is the bottom line: as long as Christians in the pews continue to
    attend and financially support these stand-for-nothing churches, the churches
    will continue to languish in their indifference. After all, by the attendance
    and offerings of all of these people in the pews, pastors are being continually
    convinced that everything they have been taught is working: their churches are successful.

    The ONLY WAY Christians can start making a difference in their country is to
    GET OUT of these clueless, cowardly churches and find a pastor who is not
    afraid to be politically-incorrect, who is not afraid to preach and teach the
    Biblical principles of liberty, and who is not afraid to preach and teach the
    principles of righteous defiance against any act of tyranny. Find a pastor who
    is not trying to be successful. You don’t need a successful pastor; you need a
    truthful pastor.

    But this means that people in the pews must truly WANT to be in a church
    that takes a stand, doesn’t it? We have the kind of pastors and churches that
    we are willing to support. If that’s the case, Christians should stop
    complaining about the indifference of their pastors and simply accept the
    imminent slavery to which they are being led.

    The Power of Good with Pastor
    Chuck Baldwin




    • gussy258

      I wonder why all those black Baptist, etc churches get away with having all those Dem politicians speak from the pulpit? They don’t seem to worry about losing their tax exempt status.

      • JulieB

        Yep, another example of the double standard rearing its ugly head again.

    • MatrixHater

      Most Pastors led sheltered Christian lives growing up, sheltered ivory tower years in seminary school and naive sheltered lives to this very day. They have not experienced the raw craziness of this world. I have heard the following statements from Pastors: “If you can’t make it to Church, you are not going to make it into heaven”- which is pure blasphemy because it adds a condition to the completed work of Christ on the Cross. Another Pastor came to the pulpit with a power point presentation on the demographics of our city and pointed out that the offerings did not reflect the income levels of the congregation. He stated “give us our 10% and you can keep the other 90%”. The State and Federal government would disagree with him on his income distribution. Two separate Pastors at 2 different churches. Never went back to either one. The level of naivete and lack of any street sense are a definite turnoff. I spent a career in Law Enforcement- been shot at, been in fights, seen the bad and the ugly. I was clinically dead on the gurny and came back from a heart malfunction. I want someone in touch with what is real preaching to me. One Pastor that I liked before he moved back to Georgia used to come and ride with me in the patrol car frequently. My hat was off to him- he wanted to see the world the way it really is, in its raw ugliness because it gave him perspective. He was real and I respected him. You look at the guys who have connected with people- the Apostle Paul comes to mind- and they were hardened by trials that perfected their faith and gave them the ability to call out wrong and attack it with everything they had. I just don’t have any respect for mamby-pamby Christianity- it is not what Christ intended.

      • southernsue


  • zknight2

    That pathetic Joel Osteen and his wife. I’m sure there’s a special place in Hell for these people along with Jim and Tammy Baker, Joyce Meyer, Pat Robertson,
    Jimmy Swaggart and many more. All of them millionaires. Yes, there will be a Judgement Day.

    • Merlinever

      There will be no Judgment Day, just as there is no God, nor a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow…

      • Memphis Viking

        You sure spend a lot of your limited time trying to convince people there is no God for someone who claims there is no God.

        • TiredVET1

          I think he is trying hard to convince himself

        • Merlinever

          My time is my business.
          That I spend a certain amount of it trying to get people to look at reality, use their power of reason and cure their delusion is to my credit.
          A world full of delusional people is a dangerous place; just look at it.

          • Memphis Viking

            No, you just like to go around mocking and insulting Christians so you can feel better about yourself.

          • Merlinever

            Reminding others of reality is certainly nothing to be ashamed of; it’s only sad that there is a need to.

          • southernsue

            you are entitled to your opinion
            and you can believe what you want to believe

          • Merlinever

            An opinion is a belief not based on positive knowledge.
            Positive knowledge is knowledge based on verifiable facts.
            What I have written here about God is not my opinion but positive knowledge based on the verifiable fact that there is no proof or evidence to support a belief in the God of Christianity or in the gods of any other religions.
            Of course one can believe whatever they choose to.
            But if you believe that you have invisible wings, in spite of there being no proof or evidence for them, and decide to try them out by jumping off of a tall building, your belief will not save you from reality.

      • zknight2

        Mer, whatever you want to believe is fine with me, just get behind me satan!

        • Merlinever

          “,,jut get behind me satan!”?
          I have no idea what you mean by that.
          But I do know that there is no Satan.

      • toomuchsense

        Merlinever, such a sad life. Without kindness and decency, there is only misery and darkness. A wetched life, that is too short.

        • Merlinever

          Shouldn’t that be toolittlesense……

      • William E Ramer

        Your dream is fantasy like your name Merlin.
        It must suck to be you, poor fool

        • Merlinever

          What dream?
          What are you talking about?
          Do you even know?

      • ezekiel22

        Good Afternoon,
        I have never understood atheism. It seems contrary to common sense that something was made from nothing by accident. From that nothing there is a plethora of everything we see and don’t see beyond imagination. There is such a myriad of differences in life and its forms as well as the impersonal from rocks to the stars and it is all in order. While man cannot even define eternity adequately enough to capture the importance of such a term we stare into everyday we make judgments as to whether God does exist. The amount of knowledge that man has compared to a being that is described as eternal is minuscule at most.

        • southernsue


        • Merlinever

          Good evening (it’s 7:16 PM where I am).
          So you’ve never understood atheism.
          Let me help you.
          Atheism is the lack of belief in the God of Christianity, in the gods of all the other religions, and in the existence of any supernatural being.
          This lack of belief is based on the fact that there is not, nor has there ever been, a shred of proof or evidence to support such a belief.
          Now you understand.

          • ezekiel22

            Not really as no fact has been proferred. Like Christianity is a matter of faith so also is atheism.
            Having been a Christian for a few years I have sen enough especially in the way of miracles that I have no doubt of my convictions. In that manner i can say I know I am right. In the same light the best you can say is you hope you are right. Not a really secure position.

          • Merlinever

            Christianity IS a matter of faith.
            Faith is, by definition, belief in things for which there is no proof or evidence.
            That’s the problem with Christianity and, as it applies to all other religions, the problem with all other religions.
            Atheism has nothing to do with faith; it is dependent only on reason and an objective interpretation of reality.
            The so-called “miracles” you claim you’ve seen are just natural occurrences that you have used your imagination to interpreted as miracles because of your religious beliefs.
            What I believe is base on verifiable facts and an objective interpretation of reality.
            What you believe is based on nothing but the products of your imagination and wishful thinking.
            You appear to be so lost in your delusion that you don’t even realize that you are delusional.

      • TiredVET1

        Hey Merlinever did you go to the end of that rainbow or you just sating that its not there. I will go along with that but got to go with the only Living God out there. All the others are false any way. But you no doubt will ask me to prove he is a living God. You always ask me to prove it so here goes if you look at how many people believe in Jesus that he is the only son of God and is still living. He lives every time I think of him and worship him so if you got all these Christians praying and thinking about him I would say he is living in the hearts of all Christians but you will not accept that answer but it is the truth. Have a good one and just remember Jesus loves you even if you don’t believe.

        • Merlinever

          Hey TiredVET1: have you ever heard of anyone finding a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow?
          Now if there were a brain at the end of a rainbow and you found it, we might all be much better off…

          • TiredVET1

            Merlinever you know I have never attacked you in any of my discussions Ive had with you I always give the benefit of the doubt that you think different from me and that’s ok we agree to disagree and debate is good. But when you attack me with the statement you made and the fact I said that I would go along with what you said was true about the rainbow but now you show me your just like all those on the left who attack and then deny attack and deny its there motto. I thought you had more intelligent that them but I see your just like them;

            Not going to attack you with the same childish antic’s so been nice debating you but im done if this is how you debate. I don’t yield to your thinking so you attack me. So please do not engage me in debate any more ill just delete the discus notice that you replied. I hope you get your life in order before its too late for you.

          • Merlinever

            When people emphasize their idiocy by choosing to treat lies as truth and myths as reality, I point it out to them.
            If believers don’t like unbelievers making fun of them, they should stop expressing such silly beliefs.

      • zknight2

        Merlin, I feel sorry for people like you. You must be a bitter, angry lillte man. You’re really missing out on the greatest in this life. Don’t worry little boo boo, I’ll pray for you.

        • Merlinever

          Don’t pray for me; it’s a total waste of time and only a form of superstition in practice.
          I feel sorry for you and all the other believers who are so devoted to their religiously inspired delusion that they cannot face reality.
          And you can save the baby talk for yourself; anyone who talks to imaginary people is surely suffering from arrested development and infantile behavior.

      • southernsue

        are you sure about that?
        how do you know?

        • Merlinever

          I know that there will be no “Judgment Day” because the Bible is a work of fiction.
          I know that there is no God or a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow because there is no proof or evidence for either.
          I wish that you and all the other believers would wake up and realize that you don’t have to worship some imaginary, invisible guy-in-the-sky or engage in ridiculous rituals once every week to be good, moral, productive, happy people.

    • William E Ramer

      “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”
      And how many souls have you won ZZZknight ? nuff said

      • zknight2

        Willam, I’m not stuffing my pockets with money that was given to God.
        Nor am I self serving as most are,
        and yes, I have “pointed” souls in the right direction,
        Only God can win souls.
        You don’t know much do you?

    • Dave Phelps

      Christians are not perfect, just forgiven by a God Who is Perfect. Praise God that we do not have to earn our way into Heaven, because NONE of us on the earth could ever do it, only Grace “the free gift of a Holy God can save us from Hell’s Fire..

  • James

    There are only two reasons why the Church is not taking a stand. One they are afraid that the Government will take away their tax exemption. This means that they
    have to pay tax on all their holding and no church has enough money to do what
    it wants.

    Second, the pastors themselves do not understand the Bible. They can only parrot what was taught them in school, and for most homosexuality was not a problem nor a subject for them then. This means that there is diversity within the church.
    For example the Church members do not know what to do about homosexuals because the homosexuals have claimed the Judge not less you be judged to mean you should not judge their sinful life style. The truth is that the bible tells you
    to judge. You judge what is sinful in accordance to the bible teaching and
    avoid it. Also, they claim the turn your cheek verse, but that is when an individual
    wrongs another individual. When the Church and Christianity are under attack
    you are to pick up your sword and become a Christian Warrior like in the Old Testament. You must stand up for Jesus as he did for you. So you have some members that say turn the other cheek and judge not while others say fight the enemies of Christ. The pastors do not control their flock by proper teaching. They have allowed them to scatter to every corner of the field and he is too lazy to go after them. This makes them easy pray for the Wolf (Satan). Here too, the pastor should be judged for he is not doing the Lords work if he does not stand against the Lord’s enemies.

    • k9mace

      You are right. If these so called pastors really believed they would know that God will provide what is needed regardless of tax exempt status or lack theteof

    • David

      Nicely worded my friend. I can only add that the disciples (which I am one) is to go unto the corners of the earth casting out demons in Jesus name and pray for and heal the sick. This is what will change the world, not cowering in a corner because a homosexual demon is telling me “he who is without sin can cast the first stone” ( in a little girly voice of course). Jesus gave his followers the power in his name to tread on snakes and scorpions so lets march with HIS authority and squash satan’s little snake head. AMEN???

    • http://batman-news.com albeit

      Second, the pastors themselves do not understand the Bible.
      Its sad in todays world but you are soooo right….Or at the very least a very shallow understanding of it…Oh but it goes so much deeper…than that

  • Merlinever

    Is it any wonder that people who believe in a God for whom there is not, nor has ever been, a shred of proof or evidence remain silent on serious issues?.
    Believers are idiots and those who encourage others to believe (pastors, priests, etc.) are their enablers and mega-idiots themselves.

    • Memphis Viking

      All of existence is evidence of God. Your assertion that there is no evidence is based on your preconception that He doesn’t exist.

      • Merlinever

        All of existence is evidence only of all of existence, and nothing more.
        That you credit some big, invisible guy-in-the-sky with having created everything in existence is your out-of-control imagination, your wishful thinking, and your delusion in full bloom.
        My belief that God does not exist is based on the fact that there is no proof or evidence that he does; your belief that God does exist is based on nothing but the fact that a lot of other people share your belief.
        “Religion is about turning untested belief into unshakable truth through the power of institutions and the passage of time.” Richard Dawkins.

        • Memphis Viking

          Yet you believe that everything that exists magically exploded out of nothing for no reason, with no proof or evidence. And even if you were correct that there is no evidence of God, it’s a logical fallacy to argue that absence of evidence equals evidence of absence. The only way you could know for sure that God doesn’t exist is if you were omniscient yourself. What you have is faith.

          • Merlinever

            The first sentence of your reply is proof and evidence that you are totally ignorant of the theory of evolution.
            And, since you closed your reply with a mention of it, let’s talk about faith.
            Faith is, by definition, belief in things for which there is no proof or evidence; in other words, faith is simply belief in lies and not the great and wonderful thing resting gloriously high up on top of a beautiful white marble pedestal that so many have held it to for so long.

          • Memphis Viking

            Funny, I’m always told by atheists that the big bang has nothing to do with evolution. And your ‘definition’ of faith is only one possible definition, but it perfectly describes your belief that there is no God. You’re also lying yourself when you equate things for which there is no proof or evidence with lies. They are not synonymous.

          • Merlinever

            The definition of the word “faith” that I furnished is not my definition of that word; it’s the definition given in Webster’s New World College Dictionary, Fourth Edition.
            And although there are other definitions given for that word, the definition I furnished is the one that is most pertinent to religion.
            Now, when you have something intelligent to say, let me know…..

          • Memphis Viking

            Most pertinent to your opinion of religion, hence, YOUR definition of faith.

          • Merlinever

            An opinion is a belief not based on positive knowledge.
            Positive knowledge is knowledge based on verifiable facts.
            Everything I have written about faith is based on verifiable facts.
            Therefore, I have no opinion of faith.
            And you have no argument.

          • Memphis Viking

            You said faith is belief in lies. You think that’s a verifiable fact? Bless your heart.

          • Merlinever

            A lie is a statement that isn’t true.
            To say or to believe that something for which there is no proof or evidence exists is a lie.
            Faith is belief in things for which there is no proof or evidence. Therefore, faith is belief in lies.
            So……how delusional are you……
            …and when are you going to start curing yourself of your delusion…?

          • Memphis Viking

            Even if you were correct that there is no proof or evidence of God, a lack of proof or evidence does not make a statement false, much less deliberately false, which would constitute a lie. Your logic is as lacking as your vocabulary. So you just keep on believing in your magical space explosion (which is a lie by your reasoning) and call other people delusional to feel better about yourself.

          • Merlinever

            “Even if you were correct that there is no proof or evidence of God…”
            There’s no “Even if” in it.
            That you won’t allow yourself to see that is a clear indication of the sever level of your delusion.
            Nor do you ever seem to tire of emphasizing your ignorance of the theory of evolution:
            “..magical space explosion..”??

    • Michael Matthews

      You must know all as there is both documented, physical and scientific evidence to the validity of the Bible and its teachings. Besides the voice of one, you for instance is far outweighed by those with more intelligence and the understanding to realize no human knows everything.

      • http://batman-news.com albeit

        I know exactly how long Jesus Christ lived while on this earth…I also know humanities time frame from Adam to the beginning of the Millenium and beyond…

        • k9mace

          You mean the time frame from Adam to now don’t you. We have yet to reach the millenium and the Bible does say no man knows the day or hour.

          • http://batman-news.com albeit

            Well that too…we are living in the year 6029 give or take a year however to what event are you talking about…the beginning of the millennium, the beginning of the 7 year tribulation week, the marriage supper of the lamb or the pre- tribulation rapture???

          • k9mace

            His second coming which is the pre-trib rapture. Although the word rapture does not appear in the Bible. It is mans word for a God event.

          • http://batman-news.com albeit

            I can predict the year or very close to it when the millenium will begin based off of when Christ died on the cross and also when the year 6000 occurs in the hebrew calendar…you check it from front to back and from back to front…Now when during the year 6000 you count back is the conundrum…not sure when during that year you subtract from…I never said the day or hour…and I am not referring to the rapture either

      • Merlinever

        “documented, physical and scientific evidence to the validity of the Bible and its teaching.”
        Oh really.
        And that documented, physical and scientific evidence is……?
        I never said or implied that I know everything; only believers do
        that, and, in their feeble little minds, God is the answer to all the questions.
        That a great number of people believe something is no proof that it is true nor are a bunch of lies and myths (Christianity and all other religions) any less a bunch of lies and myths because they have been repeated for a long time.

    • Voncent

      Atheists seem to get real soft and squishy in the presence of Muslims. They never post their hateful screeds against Muslims, even as anonymous contributors on a secular blog. They would never dare mouth off to a woman in a hijab or a devout Muslim male.

      • Merlinever

        “Atheists seem to get real soft and squishy in the presence of Muslims.”?
        I don’t.
        Nor do I know of any others who do.
        Exactly what evidence is your outrageous accusation based on?

    • gussy258

      Ask a physicist if he believes there is a God. You’ll be surprised by the answer. I have even asked a physicist if he knew any physicists that didn’t believe there was a God and he said no.

      • Michael Skok

        How can a scientist not believe in God? Can life be created in a laboratory? Let’s see our scientists create life in a laboratory and then we can begin to doubt the existence of God. What scientists have done is just the opposite of God. They have create weapons of mass destruction end life several times over. We need God now more than ever to save us from extinguishing ourselves.

      • Merlinever

        If a physicist said they believed in God it would not surprise me or prove anything………except that there was a physicist who believed in God.
        That a physicist believed in God would not be surprising because, like so many of us, they were indoctrinated with all that religious nonsense when they were very young and at an age at which we are hard-wired to accept anything and everything our parents tell us without question or critical, objective examination.
        Of course, any physicist who tried to use the lies and myths of religion in their work as a physicist would not be taken seriously or last long.

    • toomuchsense

      For he has not love of mankind, nor himself. Hate, self hate is evident in his speech and his actions. Merlinever is a poor wretched creature. Much in the need of saving grace. Sad.

      • Merlinever

        toomuchsense is a poor, wretched creature, much in need of a brain and without the sense to realize it. Amusing.

    • Lee Allen

      Just look out your window you’ll see the wonder of Gods creation as well as the proof that you claim doesn’t exist.

      • Merlinever

        When I look out my window, I see the building next to the one I live in.
        It was built by real men with real materials; no lies or myths were used in its construction.
        Get real.

    • antiliberalcryptonite

      Enjoy hell buddy. What, don’t believe? Try jumping off a 20-story building naked. Don’t believe in gravity? Gravity don’t care. Hell doesn’t either.

      • Merlinever

        I’m not your “buddy”.
        Hell is a myth.
        Gravity is real.
        Grow up.

    • Watchman

      Deep down you know that your convictions are not true. There is that little bit of doubt that you are trying to conceal; even from yourself. I would advise you to talk to as many people as you can that have died before and come back. They all now believe in an afterlife. Even the atheists.

      • J.W.

        To bad you have not experience a foxhole. I learned and experienced along time ago, that there were no atheists in foxholes.

      • Merlinever

        I don’t have to go “deep down” to know my convictions are true; the more I hear nut jobs like you talking, the more it confirms my beliefs.
        And you claim to know people who have died and come back from the dead!
        There’s probably a padded cell with your name on it you somewhere.

    • http://theawakenednation.ning.com/profile/KevinMKeener Snowman8wa

      I’m sorry spawn of Baal Peor, were you saying something? Anything of relevance and with authority? Or were you just spewing more vomit?

      “O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
      A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
      But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
      For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. [Matthew 12:34-37]

      Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus et Fidelis

      • Merlinever

        In case you haven’t figured it out yet, the Bible is a work of fiction.
        And Latin is a dead language.

    • David

      How does your heart not ache knowing deep down inside your soul that you will be separated from a loving and merciful God and crying out night and day FOREVER wanting the anguish to end but it never will. You might want to just try and have Jesus the son of salvation speak to your heart. He will do it. This could be your last chance???? Are you a gambling man?

      • Merlinever

        Am I a gambling man?
        I’m a thinking man.
        “I think, therefore I am an atheist.” Author unknown.

    • http://batman-news.com albeit


      • Merlinever

        Why don’t I believe (in the Christian God or in the gods of any other religion)?
        Simple question; simple answer:
        Because there is not, nor has there ever been, a shred of proof or evidence to support such beliefs.
        See how easy that was.

        • http://batman-news.com albeit

          See how easy that was.

          Of course it was easy to say but impossible to prove…You look like an older gentleman so you probably will not see it when it comes however the Millenium based on scripture will most llikely occur around late 2047 with the 7 year tribulation leading up to it…the bible hints at that particular timeline which I can prove as much as anything can be proven..Jesus lived 14,700 (12) hour days before he died on the cross…So the millenium will begin symbolic of that counting from when Christ died on the cross which will be 1,470,000 days based on a 12 hour intervals as a full day…Much of creation is based on 7 or 10…eggs of bird species are all based on 7 day intervals…So say what you will but the proof is everywhere…

          • Merlinever

            Since I’m not the one who made the wild, unsubstantiated claim (that God exists), the burden of proof is not on me but on those who did.
            And they have no proof.
            Never have.
            And never will.

    • mtman2

      So DNA invented itself and also the atomic mechanical structure of this 3rd dimension as found in the Periodic Table producing the known universes are miraculous accidents?!
      So is it Immaculate-generation or spontaneous-Conception?
      The foundation of all material existence is built on the
      1st+2nd Laws of Thermodynamics(w/ rule of Entropy) making constructive ‘accidents’ impossible -as all things are in a constant state of decay and/or chemical transition and energy recycles within the parameters of preordained laws governing the universe.
      Biogenesists dictate that life can only come from life….time -doesn’t make the impossible possible nor allows that to become probable or then the
      ‘makebelieve-probable’ virtually a certainty.
      Spontaneous Generationists are laughable on any mathematical or scientific foundational evidence.

      At the moment of conception, a fertilized human egg the size of a pin head.
      Yet, it contains information equivalent to about 6-billion ‘chemical-letters’.
      This is enough info to fill 1,000 books-500 pages thick w/print so small you’d need a microscope to read it!. This all of course is DESIGN!
      Living cells cannot make proteins until the DNA replication and translation machinery is already in place! So living cell systems would have to have arose simultaneously with the incredibly complex DNA.
      Fred Hoyle was led to state that the probability of ‘spontaneous-generation
      “is about the same probability that a tornado sweeping through a junkyard could assemble a 747 from the contents therein.”

      More than that -Merlinever- only the left-handed form of any amino acid(except glycine) is EVER found in living organisms; this is a biological mystery as Louis Pasteur identified this one handedness well over 100-yrs ago.
      Miller+Cricks poisonous concoction though producing some amino acids in the mix created right-handed molecules in the tar-like mix.
      The probability that an average size protein molecule of he smallest imagined living thing would randomly contain ONLY left-handed
      amino acids is, on the average 1 in 10 to the123-power.
      Lies are given for many reasons without true reasoning and can be found out by those who seek the truth by doing just diligence.

      All life and all creation is incredibly complex as now is just beginning to be understood however to truly open ones eyes to realize that in themselves is as miraculous as everything they see!

      • Merlinever

        Your lengthy reply only serves to verify your total ignorance of the theory of evolution and to reveal the efforts to which one will go to avoid facing reality.

        • mtman2

          Your 1st short simplistic statement appeared to lack anything of substantive value, only a morbid hatred for what one would be afraid to see in the obvious, hence a specific irrefutable look at science and what the truly great minds have ascertained, you evidently were unaware of -and now still hide from to avoid facing.
          You have nowhere to go here, you’ve been checkmated!

          • Merlinever

            You have no proof to support your beliefs; you’ve been exposed.

          • mtman2

            Your facetious or retarded!
            You’ve exposed nothing only your ignorance.
            – ALL – I pointed out IS proof and either you realize this and cannot face it or actually cannot grasp it -not having the mental capability to fact check what is fact -if you did actually discredit anything pointed out to your big mouthed name calling. Probably believe in “manmade global-warming” too!
            So far you are the “enabled mega-idiot”, “without a shred of proof or evidence-remaining silent on serious issues”.
            Refute what I said or shutup -punk! So far you’ve proven to be a sheeps echo.

          • Merlinever

            How about learning to use the English language.
            The short form of “you are” is “you’re’ not “your”.
            Your is a possessive pronominal adjective.
            You’re is the correct abbreviated form of “you are”.
            It’s obvious that you are the one who is mentally challenged.
            Oh……and you can save the baseless accusations and the infantile insults for those of as low quality of character as yourself.

          • mtman2

            Sorry Merl, didn’t realize UR an grammar wonk. Hiding behind irrelevance isn’t helping U here. U are the rude child that posted here as one “mentally challenged” calling people ignorant names w/”infantile insults”, not us. Try that in UR local bar! This shows the respect you treat folks different from U, describes a bigot by definition.
            My taking time for you is an opportunity to actually learn something useful, none of what I said can be refuted, it’s already history.
            You asked for proof and evidence, yet gave none. See theory is just that Merl. On the other hand I refuted ‘origins’ from a mathematical to the biological with real scientific facts that are indisputable, not to forget from the mouths of former magical thinkers(Spontaneous-Generationists) Hoyle, Gould, Pilbeam, Colin, Patterson, Asimov, Moore, Sunderland, Eastman, Strobel on+ on. I have thousands of pages on their lifes works, calculations and quotes
            (w/ immutable Laws of science not make believe). You are behind the times here -not I. Without ORIGINS you have nothing but magical thinking… ie-SP’s.
            Carefully read and check up on my original post, refute any of it if you can. I won’t correct grammatical errors. My answer to your original post ignored the rudeness but dealt with the “science of serious issues” you asked to see with a ?-mark. If you can’t deal with these then you are the “enabler” encouraging others to believe a lie.
            Kind regards, Selah

          • Merlinever

            Sorry mtman2, but “Hiding behind irrelevance”?
            Please explain to me how knowing how to use the English language properly is “irrelevant” on a site on which all of the communications between those using the site are made in written form in the English language.
            The more you write, the less intelligent you sound.
            But since you mentioned Isaac Asimov, here’s one of his quotes that is pertinent to this discussion:
            “Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.”

          • mtman2

            You attacked this site with hatred on a point, my misspelled word is a non sequitur. Majoring in the minors seems to be a pernicious character flaw in attempting the pretense of adulthood. You’re still hiding from the point you contacted us about, it’s apparent you can’t -so sideline that inability to wasting time.
            You have not sounded intelligent yet, only antagonistic and childish, typical of homosexuals!
            Asimov and Gould both stated that since the creationist scientists had won all of the more than 100 debates, the evolutionists should not debate them, -1978. You give no date or context.
            Your statements accurately describe “The more you write, the less intelligent you sound.
            You haven’t said anything relevant yet, only hate….maybe raped by a priest as a child?
            Reply in rebuttal to my stated facts by ‘doing just diligence’………..
            …………….. or just go away -as you offer nothing of relevance here. Best wishes, Selah

          • Merlinever

            I have never attacked this site.
            Telling the truth is not attacking with hatred.
            And not being able or willing to use the English language properly is pitiful.
            Get real.

          • mtman2

            You attacked the people on this site(+ me), our premise and all that disagree w/U; same thing -only worse, it is bigoted and narrow minded. You ask for a point of knowledge from us, I kindly responded with all relevant known ‘provable’ science compiled on origins of which all theory must be based, hence falls apart. Which proves we don’t know, comprehend or understand this 3-dimensional reality in the fullness of ‘provable’ science; only complexity on more complexity than is comprehensible the more we learn.
            It’s the 4-dimension and more that lies outside of time, space or whatever mysteries are beyond that interest us here. Theoreticians by the hundreds of disputed speculations, while cashing paychecks for accomplishing nothing of value on solid truths, argue among themselves over suppositions of “what is”.
            ORIGINS – placed under the utmost scrutiny has determined that Intelligent-Design is not only viable but undeniably with certainty the bases of all matter and biological existence.
            Accidental reality does not exist or DNA inventing itself nor any violations of the foundational laws of true science as in the 1+2 of Thermodynamics and further as Entropy dictates “all things are in a state of decay.” ie -cycled into another form of matter or energy by the laws of the universe set into motion from the beginning as such. This is the truth on the level you dispute with no bases only a bigoted opinion.
            This is real.
            It’s the spiritual realm outside of this mortally definitive reality that gets us out of the meaningless existence without a Greater Love and knowledge of Holiness that draws the hearts of man in his essence to greater than ourselves.
            -This Merlinever- is what you should “seek with all your heart mind and strength to learn of great and mighty things you do not know”.
            The physical is an allusion of things to come, that were before this dimension began.


          • Merlinever

            You STILL can’t spell.
            Well, as it has been correctly said of believers,
            “Faith is the determination to remain ignorant in the face of all evidence that you are ignorant.”

          • mtman2

            Wow is right!
            You STILL have shown no ‘evidence’ yet “remain ignorant in the face of all evidence that YOU are ignorant” and seemingly cannot refute my case for ORIGINS ie -you have no debate!
            You STILL have no manners even when made irrelevant by virtue of no case and no facts. You indeed reveal the sadness and loneliness of a malcontent. A case for the homosexual deviant lifestyle.
            I’ve given you more than you bargained for or deserve for your rudeness and darkened understanding.
            Most pitiful and so sorrowful.
            Best wishes, -Selah-

          • Merlinever

            Your “case for ORIGINS”?
            What case?

  • 4lifeandfreedom

    Jonathan Edwards’ “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God” is worthy of one’s reading.
    The Great Awakening could happen again, don’t you think?

    • jubilee

      i think it WILL…. and it may be the THIRD ONE… don’t forget: many things in the bible and in science happen in 3’s

  • Carmen A.

    I’m not one of these I tell it as is Let them come to me there will be a battle they will not win.

  • regulus30

    it takes courage to stand against totalitarianism ;; some in his flock may even be Judas, that is what makes religion such a powerful weapon against atheists and muslim;; the amount of trust and belief to be a leader.

  • http://theawakenednation.ning.com/profile/KevinMKeener Snowman8wa

    Stop being wishy-washy metro-sexual people pleasing Love GURUs and be what you set out to be when GOD chose you; a Minister for Christ to SPEAD THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO HIS WORD, not “man”s interpretations to PERVERT it for “man’s” needs.

    “For yourselves, brethren, know our entrance in unto you, that it was not in vain: But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our GOD to speak unto you the gospel of GOD with much contention. For our exhortation was not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, nor in guile: But as we were allowed of GOD to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but GOD, which trieth our hearts. For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; GOD is witness:…..”
    [1 Thesselonians 2:1-5]

    Ephesians 6——-THE WHOLE ARMOR OF GOD!
    Semper Vigilo, Fortis Paratus et Fidelis

  • Lee Allen

    Merlinever no proof of God are you kidding? Just look out your window at the wonder of this world take a walk in the forest or go for a snorkel in a sea and if you still really and I mean really don’t believe in God I know for a fact that one day you will!

  • armydadtexas

    This is about pastors with no back bones bowing to the Alter of Political Correctness. Their message will never offend any one or any behavior.

  • Paul Jacoby

    Hi. Monergist here. I had to address these two points. . .

    QUOTE: Sometimes you have to rebel against
    unrighteous, limiting laws.

    I see no biblical justification of this assertion, unless you’re only referring to any laws
    that prevent the preaching of the gospel of Christ. As a matter of fact, I see the complete opposite when reading Romans 13:1-7 and 1 Peter 2:17. Instead of rebellion, martyrdom appears the way to go.

    QUOTE: There’s nothing wrong with proper civil disobedience when the need arises, especially if the government tries to stifle your scriptural rights and obligations.

    What “scriptural rights and obligations” would these be? Please quote directly from scripture, please. If you cite Acts 5:29, that has more to do with preaching the gospel and far less to do with politics, taxation, or government tyranny. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s (Matt 22:21).

    Granted, John Witherspoon may have signed the DoI, but there was no way he could really justify it from the biblical text. Eisegetically perhaps, but never exegetically with any firm conviction.

    • ansonheath

      When you research the primary reason for the martyrdom of the first century Christians, what would you call it other than civil disobedience?

      • Paul Jacoby

        Anson, maybe I wasn’t clear enough in my previous post. Here, I’ll “teal deer” it for you: It was for the sake of the gospel ALONE, and not about politics, taxation, or gun control. The priorities of the 1st century Christians were clear. The priorities of 21st century Christians aren’t.

        • ansonheath

          Maybe I wasn’t clear either, so I’ll repeat and re-emphasize my statement as a question: What was the primary reason for the martyrdom of Christians in the first century during the reign of the Caesars?

          • Paul Jacoby

            Oh. Okay. The specific reason for the martyrdom of Christians in the first century was for declaring Jesus Christ as the only divine God (Jesus’ specific identity is a necessary specific element of the gospel), which in-turn naturally rejects the Caesars as divine. Even when viewed and/or “spun” as political by non-Christians, the priority for Christians was not political, but rather theological.

          • ansonheath

            Caesar was the head of the Roman civil government, right? He also considered himself divine, right?
            Who enforced the worship of Caesar? The ‘bishop’ of Rome? (I jest, sir.) Those first century Christian martyrs resisted the civil government enforcing the worship of Caesar. Are you going to play word games and say this is not about politics? How do you define politics?
            The empire of Rome had dozens of ‘religious gods of various types’ promoted by dozens of different advocates, do you think that one more god by the name of Jesus concerned Rome? Answer: Not one whit! Only when the Christians REFUSED to worship Caesar, did they draw the attention of the CIVIL government and were put to death.
            As far as Rome was concerned, it was a civil matter.
            While I am at this, does your reference to Rom. 13:1-7 require Christians to go against our Christian conscience and acquiesce to government no matter what?
            What is the context of the those verses? What about the phrase ‘rulers are not a terror to good works’ and are ‘ministers of God’? Do these terms describe the Caesars?
            As to your quote ” Instead of rebellion, martyrdom appears the way to go.” – who is preaching rebellion? Is civil disobedience rebellion?
            As to Acts 5:29 – the Jewish religious authorities had a civil government role under Roman authority. However, they did not have authority for capital punishment. In every sense of the word, when the apostles defied them, they were subject to civil penalties.
            To compare our current political system with that of Rome is difficult because the intricacies of each are different. Therefore, the best comparison would simply be that it was the state versus the church – just as it is today!
            Finally, Jesus said that all authority in heaven and on earth is His – NOW – so exactly what part of human activity is outside of His jurisdiction?

          • Paul Jacoby

            Anson, you’re missing the “why” from the POV of
            the Christians. That’s all that matters. They did not die for political motiviations, period. Nice try though.

            While you’re at it, civil disobedience is definitely an unlawful form of rebellion, yes. It is defined as the active, professed refusal to obey certain laws, demands, and commands of a government, or of an occupying international power.

            So then your problem is obviously with Romans 13:1-7 and Acts 5; not me. The passages were both cited within their full context, and support one another exegetically. You’re just trying to obfuscate and overcomplicate it.

            If you have to demand certain limits to scripture to suit your presupposed agenda, or brush it under the rug with extra lines of arbitrary rhetoric, or ask what God “really meant,” or complain that there wasn’t enough to it for you to get it, then that’s a red flag your priority is not the Word of God.

            The Bible is not Play-Doh.

          • ansonheath

            Our ‘dialogue’, if you can call it that, has ended. Your predetermined ‘exegesis’ is unable to answer questions that I presented. I even seriously doubt your reading comprehension of the article itself or my responses.
            You simply regurgitate your own opinions of ‘exegesis, without any historical understanding whatsoever. That’s pretty obvious.
            The Bible is not just for ‘academic’ exercise, it’s a guide for every avenue of life of which Christ has a part. As far as I know, there is no jurisdiction that Christ has no authority over – thus victory already decided – but yet to be completed by His disciples.
            If you can argue around the Great Commission in Matt. 28:18-20 and why we shouldn’t carry it out, suggest you do it to a mirror. But then, I suppose it depends what the meaning of the word ‘disciple’ is. Playing around with words is not my game. Carrying out the commission supersedes that.
            Last, but not least, you can take your snarky attitude and shove it up your ‘Play-Doh’.

          • ansonheath

            Our ‘dialogue’, if you can call it that, has ended. Your predetermined ‘exegesis’ is unable to answer questions that I presented. I even seriously doubt your reading comprehension of the article itself or my responses.
            You simply regurgitate your own opinions of ‘exegesis, without any historical understanding whatsoever. That’s pretty obvious.
            The Bible is not just for ‘academic’ exercise, it’s a guide for every avenue of life of which Christ has a part. As far as I know, there is no jurisdiction that Christ has no authority over – thus victory already decided – but yet to be completed by His disciples.
            If you can argue around the Great Commission in Matt. 28:18-20 and why we shouldn’t carry it out, suggest you do it to a mirror. But then, I suppose it depends what the meaning of the word ‘disciple’ is. Playing around with words is not my game. Carrying out the commission supersedes that.
            Last, but not least, you can take your snarky attitude and shove it up your ‘Play-Doh’.

          • Paul Jacoby

            Anson: Our ‘dialogue’, if you can call it that, has ended.

            PJ: It never really was a dialogue to begin with. You were just trying to play “gotcha” from the beginning. Now it’s gone on longer than you wanted, so you’ve decided to duck out.

            Anson: Your predetermined ‘exegesis’ is unable to answer questions that I presented.

            PJ: Yes, exegesis is always predetermined by the exegetical text first. You’re starting to get it, lol.

            Anson: I even seriously doubt your reading comprehension of the article itself or my responses.

            PJ: ^ Here, we see a classic example of argument from personal incredulity. That, and your bitterness is showing.

            Anson: You simply regurgitate your own opinions of ‘exegesis, without any historical understanding whatsoever. That’s pretty obvious.

            PJ: It’s
            pretty obvious you don’t realize that exegesis is not based on subjective opinion, but rather objective context, as clearly presented earlier in this thread.

            Anson: The Bible is not just for ‘academic’ exercise, it’s a guide for every avenue of life of which Christ has a part.

            PJ: Yes. Except for the parts you’d rather not deal
            with, of course.

            Anson: As far as I know, there is no jurisdiction that Christ has no authority over –

            PJ: Words in my mouth. I claimed no such thing. Read the thread. You simply don’t care why the Christians were martyred. If they had all concluded, “Oh, the Romans are just being political,” then they’d have the excuse to recant the Lord Jesus in public and feel okay about it. But they didn’t do that because they understood “Sola Deo Gloria;” even if their enemies didn’t. Just as Jesus’ own enemies didn’t understand (Luke 23:34, 1 Cor 2:8). Therefore, the opinion of the Romans didn’t matter. Your appeal to
            relativism fails. Furthermore, your attempt to cheapen the martyrdom of the early Christians is equally sad.

            Anson: If you can argue around the Great Commission in Matt. 28:18-20 and why we shouldn’t carry it out, suggest you do it to a mirror.

            PJ: And now you’re simply off-topic. If you were paying any attention at all, I was arguing for carrying out the Great
            Commission all the way to martyrdom, and not when politically convenient. >;)

            Anson: Last, but not least, you can take your snarky attitude and shove it up your ‘Play-Doh’.

            PJ: Again, if you paid attention to the thread, you were the one who initially barged in to “school me.” How snarky is that? When you had lost every reason for any valid accusation of the brethren, you resorted to argument from repetition.

            So, Anson. . .you want the last word now? You know, for pride’s sake? Please, continue to show us your lack of
            fruit. :)

          • Paul Jacoby

            Anson: Our ‘dialogue’, if you can call it that, has ended.

            PJ: It never really was a dialogue. You were
            just trying to play “gotcha” from the beginning. Now it’s gone on longer than you expected, so
            you’ve decided to duck out.

            Anson: Your predetermined ‘exegesis’ is unable to answer questions that I presented.

            PJ: Yes, exegesis in fact IS always predetermined by the exegetical text first. You’re starting to get it, lol.

            Anson: I even seriously doubt your reading
            comprehension of the article itself or my responses.

            PJ: ^ Here, we see a classic example of argument from personal incredulity.

            Anson: You simply regurgitate your own opinions of ‘exegesis, without any historical understanding whatsoever. That’s pretty obvious.

            PJ: It’s pretty obvious you don’t realize that exegesis is not based on subjective opinion, but rather objective context, as clearly presented earlier in this thread.

            Anson: The Bible is not just for ‘academic’ exercise, it’s a guide for every avenue of life of which Christ has a part.

            PJ: Yes. Except for the parts you’d rather not deal
            with, of course. Like Romans 13:1-7 and Acts 5.

            Anson: As far as I know, there is no jurisdiction that Christ has no authority over –

            PJ: Words in my mouth. I claimed no such thing. Read the thread. You simply don’t care why the Christians were martyred. If they had all concluded, “Oh, the Romans are just being political,” then they’d have the excuse to recant the Lord Jesus in public and feel okay about it.
            But they didn’t do that, because of the “why” I cited earlier. They truly understood “Sola Deo Gloria,” even
            if their enemies didn’t. Just as Jesus’ own enemies didn’t understand (Luke 23:34, 1 Cor 2:8). Therefore, the opinion of the Romans didn’t matter. They were blind and dead in sin. Thus, your appeal to relativism fails.

            Anson: If you can argue around the Great Commission in Matt. 28:18-20 and why we shouldn’t carry it out, suggest you do it to a mirror.

            PJ: And now you’re simply off-topic. If you were paying any attention at all, I was arguing for carrying out the Great
            Commission all the way to martyrdom, and not when politically convenient. >;)

            Anson: Last, but not least, you can take your snarky attitude and shove it up your ‘Play-Doh’.

            PJ: Last time I checked, parting shots and bitterness were not fruits of the Spirit. Again, if you paid attention to the thread, you were the one who initially barged in to “school me.” How snarky is that? Then when you’d lost every reason for any valid accusation of the brethren, you resorted to argument from repetition.

            So, Anson. . .you want the last word now? You know, for pride’s sake? Please, continue to show us your lack of

          • ansonheath

            Pre-suppositional bias in exegesis + semantics = endless haggling on hermeneutics without any edifying benefit – especially when you consider the fact that no human being is unbiased.
            Some say Paul should not have cited his Roman citizenship to avoid further punishment by civilian authorities – ‘take your lumps and don’t revert to cheap politics’? One man’s civil disobedience is another man’s rebellion – the beat goes on, and on, and on………..
            Whatever the case may be, we ‘only see through the glass darkly’.
            We’re all responsible for what comes out of our minds and mouths – thank God for His grace – I’m outta here!

  • Watching_and_Waiting

    I LIKE it!

  • Watching_and_Waiting

    Atheism as an organized belief or group is mostly a modern construct (like it’s political twin, Communism). It flows from the false belief in human omnipotence, which is fed by inflated descriptions of mankind’s mental, mechanical and metaphysical prowess. Witness stories and films of heroes (or villains) with super-powers, Sci-Fi tales of mankind conquering other worlds, and even dominating in the “other worlds” (vampirism, Harry Potter, etc). These tales make us out to be gods unto ourselves, needing nothing or no one to save us – except a good script writer(LOL). But they are all fiction. Just like all other lies from the Father of Lies Lucifer himself. Ancient man didn’t have the luxury of believing in a false omnipotence – and therefore was very religious. Modern man has often been deluded into thinking we have outlived any need for God and therefore God has ceased to exist like a Greek mythological god (which never did exist in the first place). But last time I checked, none of us make it out of this world alive. And no one’s come back from the dead with a (plausible) proof that there’s no God. Atheism is the ultimate denial of the proof right in front of our noses every day. A world so complex and self-sustaining with so many interworking parts cannot ever have emerged by accident. And mans constant predilection toward wrong-doing and sin firmly proves the Biblical narrative of a fallen world who needs a Savior from Heaven to save us from ourselves and from the fate we deserve.

    • jubilee

      IMO, atheism is usually done by MALES who seem ANGRY AT GOD.. they KNOW he exists but don’t want to see HIM.
      Women tend to have other problems like going into other New Age weird religions.. men don’t as a rule

  • Jinglebob

    This is a big problem I have with the catholic church when that Kennedy woman came out during the Democratic convention and shouted out her support for abortion. The same for old Nancy Pelosi, another cheer leader. So public against the Church’s policy but the Catholics did nothing but stick their heads farther in the sand.

  • docmccarthy

    And to top it all off, these ministers of the Word are going to be held to a much higher standard. God expects them to lead His sheep in the Truth, the Way, and the Life – they are obligated to light up the congregation’s life with Christ. So, come judgment day…
    Not going to be happy, happy, happy, as Phil Robertson would say!

  • kenhowes

    I have preached on the sanctity of marriage and the wrongfulness of abortion. By and large, though, I don’t preach on issues that might be considered political. Whether I think the administration has done well or poorly on Russia and Ukraine, or Benghazi, or nationalized health care, or the deficit (I think it has done poorly on all of those), that is not my place or the Church’s place to speak out on. I might, and in fact I have, spoken out as an individual on those issues. But when the subject is the nature of marriage or the life of unborn children, a pastor cannot be silent.

    • silvernotes

      Go read some of the early church sermons (particularly of the founding fathers, most of whom were ministers)….you will be astonished at what political messages they had!

    • louie

      I would recommend to all pastors to give sermons based on expository teaching through the scriptures chapter-by-chapter and even verse-by-verse. This keeps you on God’s program rather than politics. It is up to the individual Christian to make application to politics for the most part. Such teaching from the pulpit is a frequent characteristic of growing churches and keeps pastors in the word rather than quoting movies and novels. Many churches have a real shortage of Biblical knowledge and it all starts with the pastor.

    • polarisgold

      Before LBJ silenced the church with his 501(c)(3) the church spoke out on political issue’s especially the people running for office. Pastor’s told their congregation about the candidate’s. If you’d read up on the history of the bill that made the 501(c)(3) law you’d know that LBJ wanted to shut the mouth’s of the churches in order to pass his legislation.

      If you’d only become knowledgeable on this issue you’d know that churches have the right to be non-taxable or tax exempt without the 501(c)(3).

      You would not believe the amount of brainless turd’s I’ve met in my former church that voted for this anti-American president. If the pastor’s of this country had educated their congregation’s on the candidates Mr. B.O. never would of been elected!

      Sad to say but their are million’s upon million’s of these turd’s that can not think for themselves and the pastor’s must lead them…….but they don’t!

  • Igor

    “Suck it up, Skippy!”
    Straight is the way and narrow is the gate that leads to Eternal Life. If you don’t already know this, you aren’t studying the Scriptures or if you have you’ve forgotten your training.
    By the way, Christ never *did* say the road (the way) was level, uphill, or downhill, did he? Guess which one it is….


    Just plain stealing in the name of the lord. SAD!

  • Ajean72

    That list is why I left the church altogether.

    • ezekiel22

      It is said that the Church is a hospital for the sinners.

    • jubilee

      you need to come back… even though Christians are in trouble and many of the politicians WE PUT IN THERE, we NEED EACH OTHER.. the early church was also in the same position at times…
      Find a church that is strong.. some of the KJV only ones seem the ‘strongest’ but don’t quote me on that one

      • Ajean72

        I’m still looking for the best one and the most God fearing.

        • RedStateKitty

          There is no “best” church, because the Body is made up of fallible humans. There’s always going to be issues until Christ returns! The BEST church is the one you’re involved in, as a member of the flock, learning the word and applying it, being discipled, being equipped to carry out the Great Commission as God directs you to do. Aljean72, you should not be forsaking the gathering together with the saints! I encourage you to get out there, visit churches, and ask God to show you the one you need to join with for their benefit and yours!

          • Ajean72

            Best as in best in my community. Please mind your own business.

          • RedStateKitty

            Aljean72, if “mind your own business,” is your typical response to someone encouraging you — in a positive way — to follow what the Bible tells us about the gathering together as the Body of Christ, no wonder you can’t find the “best church” in your community.

            In Galatians we are told we’re to bear one another’s burdens, and that is being address to the church people — there, but applies to us today (Gal 6:2, Heb 10:25). By forgoing the assembly of the saints, you’re missing the opportunity to help other believers and in turn be helped and encouraged.

            With this type of critical, “I’m gonna make my own decisions,” attitude demonstrated by your sentence, “Mind your own business,” you’re showing you are at odds with Biblical teaching about seeking godly counsel (Prov 12:15, Prov 19:20-21, Prov 13:10), you’re not doing anyone any favors, least of all yourself. You’re looking at the alleged ‘problem’ and not at the SOLUTION — our FATHER GOD and the people in your community that He has chosen for you to be a part of!

            I pray that God reaches into your heart and turns it so you understand that church isn’t just to meet YOUR needs but also to give you the chance to be equipped to minister the gospel in the world, and to encourage and exhort, and support/bear the burdens of brothers and sisters in Christ. You’re missing out on SO much no matter how imperfect the individual churches are in your community, GET CONNECTED.

          • Ajean72

            I can remember something else I learned growing up. Judge not lest ye be judged.
            You don’t know my situation, you haven’t lived my life, you don’t know a thing about me, therefore, keep your condescending attitude to yourself.

          • RedStateKitty

            That scripture, Aljean72 applies to us determining the heart condition of someone — their true relationship salvation wise.

            It is not an prohibition on admonishing others about their conduct, if you look at the context, within the Sermon on the Mount (Matt 5 – 7) you see that text is calling on individuals to specific conduct and attitude.

            So I’m not judging you even in the sense you think I was, I’m exhorting and encouraging you to give your local churches a chance, and get involved. Only you know what your true attitude is towards Christ. I can see from your rejoinders, you are quite defensive about your decision, which leads me to believe (but I can’t know as you have stated above) that in your deepest self, you understand you’re not following what we’re to do in Scripture, regarding being part of a local body of believers.

            So what does that section of scripture that you cited really mean, Aljean72? A clue to what Jesus means is the warning he gives. He first gives an instruction—“Do not judge”—and then he gives a warning: “Lest ye be judged.”

            Who is he saying may judge us? You might think that he means other people will judge us if they see us being judgmental, and it is quite true that people will react negatively to us if they see us behaving in an antisocial manner. But that’s not what Jesus is saying here.

            Truly, Jesus is using a form of expression that Bible scholars refer to as “the divine passive” or “the theological passive.” It’s a use of the passive voice that describes what God will do, but it reverently avoids saying “God.” (If you understand Jewish thought they never referred to him by name, and even today, religious Jews type his name as “G-d”.)

            You see this usage in the Beatitudes, earlier in the Sermon on the Mount. When Jesus says: “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted” [Mt. 5:4]. Or: “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.” [Mt. 5:6].

            He means that those who mourn are blessed because God will comfort them and those who hunger for righteousness are blessed because God will satisfy them.

            In the same way, when Jesus says, “Judge not, lest ye be judged,” he means: “Don’t judge or God will judge you.”

            He doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t judge others in the sense of forming a moral appraisal of their behavior. We can’t avoid doing that, given our nature, and we should not avoid doing that, or the injustice in the world can never be addressed. But he uses hyperbole to make the statement striking, memorable, and something we need to think about.

            That process of thinking about it leads us into a deeper appreciation of Christ’s message. I urge you to do just that, search your Bible, pray and ask God to lead you to the body of believers who can lift you up, help you bear your burdens, and help you be equipped for ministry of the Gospel.

  • ezekiel22

    Yes the tax exempt status does matter to churches a lot. When you are employed as a pastor by a denomination then you need to do as you are told by the head of the organization. Yes a lot of pastors have been cowed into mediocrity or they are too busy trying to follow the magic formula to increase people in the pews. Being a pastor is not an easy job.
    Our pastor is very effective though just by preaching the Gospel. If one is busy doing the do you end up not being mediocre. You can preach the sanctity of life, you can preach loving your neighbor as yourself, You can preach against sin, you can preach being honest and honorable. These are for starters there is so much more. If you keep to what the Lord says and pray a lot and with your soul I can guarantee results and you will step on toes. Satan does not like interference.
    Gary has an easy job in comparison to what a real pastor does. It is easy to criticize it is harder to fix.

    • RedStateKitty

      Depends on the denomination. SBC churches, as also many other Bible-believing, evangelical denominations are individual churches who have banded together doctrinally but each church calls its own pastor — they are NOT employed by the denomination. Thus the pastor answers only to the congregation who called him.

      One thing I have always thought is that “tax exempt” status is a two fold benefit/problem. Yes, by being a federally-confirmed charitable organisation, you can then become exempt from taxation (sales tax) but from my understanding of the tax code, there’s no requirement for a church even to incorporate, and the people who donate to a church which is neither incorporated nor has 501c3 designation, STILL are able to deduct their donations to the church on Schedule A of their long-form tax return.

      And actually that’s a good idea, for the church to not seek 501c3 designation and not to incorporate: for when a church incorporates it becomes a “creature of the state.” Should the Body of Christ become a “creature of the state?”

      • ezekiel22

        I did neglect about the SBC. I agree too on your observation about the danger of the church becoming a creature of the state. Then again one needs to identify as to which is most important God or the state. Unfortunately there will be this that believe that they are one and the same.

  • Terrya

    Thanks Doug. Great message. I’m going to send this anonymously to our pastor as he never touches politics or the social issues plagueing our country

    • shelbell

      If you need to communicate this with your pastor, you should have the integrity to talk face to face. Pastors are always getting some form of criticism, and anonymous email won’t accomplish much. This could be a good conversation instead of a sneak attack.

      • Terrya

        Thanks, my wife said the same thing, Unfortunately in the past he has not been very open to any kind of opinions r/t his sermon topics. In his years as being pastor he has never approached the social decline of our country.

  • Dale_G1

    The title of this article could possibly and simply say…”The One main reason why pastors stay silent on serious issues…APATHY.” Sure many are PATHetic. But I think that the “seven deadly sins” should add one. APATHY. We are all a little aPathetic about one thing or another. But apathy I believe is the CORE reason why we have so many problems in this world. I had a co-worker once tell me that I let too many things get under my skin. That I “cared TOO much about too many small things”. I replied to him that the real problem is that TOO many people don’t care ENOUGH about a LOT of things. If more people gave a damn, we may not be facing damnation…or is it a damned nation???

  • Jim Schafer

    I totally agree, but there needs to be added to the itinerary: JUST OBEY GOD AND HIS WORD(THE BIBLE) until this happens, we are going to see an increase in inactivity among most of the clergy, Christ said “in this world you shall have tribulation” and until we, as His people(Those that know Christ personally) realize this, we will be fearful of the Sanhedrin and other Romans(catholics) and other non-Christians/worldlings.
    I am herewith stating that the ONLY way for peace is to return to the Prince of Peace—this not the prince of political peace, but the peace between man and God (Jewhah);
    for until that peace can be fulfilled there can be no peace among men.

  • J.W.

    I’m sorry to say, there are more false christians than true christians in our country. Don’t need statistics to confirm that, The last two elections is proof enough. They are more concerned with this life than the after life. Abortion and gay marriage is becoming more acceptable to the false christian even though it is contrary to the bible and the bible is the basis of christianity. These people tell themselves that they don’t believe in abortion and gay marriage, but the benefits that the democrats promise them is the deciding factor how they vote. They are no different than the butcher that ends the unborns life. They will be judged the same. No matter which christian church you attend, you very seldom hear the word hell mentioned, Yet when christ was on earth he spoke more about hell than he did heaven. I think the reason ministers and priest don’t speak out anymore is because they don’t want to offend anyone, it might shrink the collection basket and of course the tax exemption.

  • Sam

    We are living in the time of the lukewarm church, Laodiceans. It is the last church before the Rapture comes. We are neither hot nor cold. It’s time the church warms up and starts teaching about the Rapture and about the things going on today. People need to get ready.

    • Revere

      There will be no Rapture. It’s a nineteenth century invention.

      • futurelife

        Revere is right, there is no “rapture”. All one has to do is read from KJV as these new bibles have changed God’s Words. Don’t believe me, take a look at Ezekiel 13 and you will see that God is against those who “fly like birds” to escape. Or what Jesus said that He won’t come till the time of Noah and what went on then comes “first”. What is that then, look around you today and see the MO of satan at work. We ELECT evil to office to change everything that once was wrong.. All un-natual is now law. Men with men can’t produce children or women with women as God says for all to do and etc. We are not to “hide God’s Hands” as EZ 13 says is being done today. Better beware.

      • Sam

        1 Thessalonians 4:17 – Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

        Revelation 1:7 – Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

        1 Thessalonians 4:16 – For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

        1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 – For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (Read More…)

        Titus 2:13 – Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

        John 14:3 – And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.

        Matthew 24:31 – And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

        Matthew 24:27 – For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

        Revelation 20:4 – And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

        1 Corinthians 15:52 – In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

        Luke 21:34-36 – And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and [so] that day come upon you unawares. (Read More…)

        Matthew 24:42 – Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

        Matthew 24:30 – And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

        Matthew 24:36 – But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

        Genesis 6:1-22 – And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, (Read More…)

        Revelation 22:12 – And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

        Revelation 19:11-16 – And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. (Read More…)

        1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 – But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. (Read More…)

        Revelation 13:1-18 – And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. (Read More…)

        Revelation 3:10 – Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

        1 Thessalonians 5:1-2 – But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. (Read More…)

        Matthew 24:21 – For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

        Matthew 24:1-51 – And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to [him] for to shew him the buildings of the temple. (Read More…)

        Matthew 16:27 – For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

        Daniel 9:27 – And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

        Revelation 14:12 – Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

  • mtman2

    “If salt lose it’s saltiness?”
    “If asked to go the required mile?”

    “Call to Me, and I will answer you,and show you great and mighty things which you do not know.” = “He stretches out the north over empty space;He hangs the earth on nothing.”
    “Am I my brothers keeper?”
    “If a righteous man falls?”
    “If asked for your coat…?”

    “…if the watchman sees the sword coming
    and does not blow the trumpet,
    …his blood I -WILL- require at the watchman’s hand.”

    “…they sit before you as My people, and they hear your words, but they do not do them; for with their mouth they show much love, but their hearts pursue their own gain.”
    “Thus says the Lord God to the shepherds: “Woe to the shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks?”
    “…you do not feed the the flock…”
    “nor strengthened the weak,
    or healed the sick,
    or bound up the broken,
    nor returned what was driven away,
    nor sought what was lost;
    but with force and cruelty you have ruled them.”….”so they were scattered because there was no shepherd,”-“My sheep wandered through all the mountains,scattered over the face of the earth, and no one was seeking or searching for them.”
    “….because My flock became prey…I am against the shepherds; and I will require My flock at their hand;”
    “so I will seek out My sheep and deliver them from the places where they were scattered on a dark and cloudy day.”

  • Keith

    My Church will not speak out on the issues because that will not draw unbelievers to Him. And that is what they believe the Church should be about. To preach “the good news”, redemption, salvation. Any thoughts?

    • Terri

      I totally agree. I go to church to worship God and to be strengthened, not to discuss politics. Just because a group of people go to the same church does not mean we all agree politically.

      • futurelife

        Sorry to see you don’t think a church needs to speak out on politics..If you read what Christ did to merchants in His Fathers house, then you would know it is all about politics when it comes to Gods Word. When a government says you “can’t say this” or “can’t do this”, then it is political. God wants us to learn and teach and to grow in His Word, not be like those who wants to change it. You need to wake up to truth and know that government don’t like God or His Words.

        • Terri

          I agree but that doesn’t mean my pastor needs to preach about politics. What I learn at church and in my private time, from the word of God, “I” then take it to the world and do what’s right. Everything I need to know is in God’s word, whether it be spiritual or political. I don’t need to know someones political views only God’s. I just see this article to be another attack on Christianity. Not all pastors and churches are like the one’s Doug Giles spoke about.

          I am wide awake!!!

    • David

      Christ did not say stay in your churches and hope that the lost will come to you, but go out into all of the world and preach the gospel.
      Going out into all of the world is being a light and salt at your work, it is doing acts of kindness in the stores we visit, it is volunteering to serve the homeless. Before we go anywhere….pray for his will to be done through you to be a servent to others and share what Christ has done for you.
      Be a blessing Keith.

      • Terri

        I agree with what you are saying, Keith said the same thing. Keith spoke about the time when we are gathered “together” at church. A true Christian understands that they are to take the teachings of the word of God into all the world but we can’t do that if we don’t hear the truth.
        Spending time with fellow believers is like boot camp. We are being trained to fight the good fight.

    • futurelife

      If the truth isn’t tole, then who will anyone, the believers or the non-believers know what God wants? Proverbs 6:16-21 of the six things our LORD hates and the 7th is an abomination to Him. If a pastor don’t speak the truth, no matter what, then he is in trouble with the LORD. He is part of the problem in America and not of the churches in REV that Jesus spoke of was good in His eyes. Rev 2 and 3 names those churches… Which one are you going to?

  • sovereigntyofone

    I’ll be the first to admit that I’m not the greatest Christian in this world, nor am I the sharpest pencil in the box. But when it comes to ” turning the other cheek “, I’ve got two of them, and they have both been slapped by this abusive government. They had two slaps and that’s it, it’s time to kick butt or chew bubble gum, and I’m fresh out of bubble gum.
    Just my 2 cents worth.

    • Evan

      Did you get the ” just my 2 cents worth ” from the food lion ads. Cause the food lion lion in the food Lion Tv ads always says at the end of each food lion ad ” Just my 2 cents worth ”

      • sovereigntyofone

        Never heard of them.

      • phylmike34

        my foodlion has the poster of the lion saying that on the front door

      • Dave

        “My two cents worth” is an old expression. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_two_cents

    • Dave

      I’ve got four cheeks, and I ain’t lettin’ anybody slap any of them with impunity. However, I might tell them which of the two “bottom” ones they can kiss. Non Inultus Premor.

  • mtman2

    Just like the commies had infiltrated OUR society even into the inner workings of the FDR administration and were privy to the Manhattan project from inception whereas the VP-Truman knew nothing until he had to, after he inherited POTUS. This was less than 20-yrs of Reds taking over Russia and moving worldwide.
    The Christ ordered mandate of “go into all the world…” has now had over 2,000-yrs to be infiltrated.from all sides and every level….think ye not?

  • Dave Phelps

    Obama is proof that we are living very close to the return of our Lord Jesus Christ. TheU.S.A. must decline in power and become a second rate country while Russia (magog) increases in power. Obama is punishment on this country because of the sins of baby killing, gays, etc. I do not know when the Rapture will happen, but I am hard pressed to think that it will not happen soon. My prayer is “Come quickly Lord Jesus”… save the Christians that are looking for Your return, as your word says.. Many in this nation call themselves Christians, yet they vote for a party that does not believe in God’s Word. The Holy Bible, which is the only truth in this corrupt world…

  • scrambo

    my friend who is a southern baptist preacher in alabama said that it is primarily the last one. they don’t want to step on any toes and lose that comfortable middle class paycheck….pretty damn pathetic….the bible alludes to the fact that there want be equality in heaven, it also says that pastors will be held to higher standard…i expect to see alot of those pious sob’s on the shitter detail….

  • Evan

    I thought. Revoulting was wrong ……

  • Evan

    Therevare still a handful of good preachers out there i write music lyrics for church

  • Terri

    I usually agree with Doug Giles but on this I think he is way off base. There are enough people attacking Christians, we don’t need someone attacking our Pastors too. If I don’t like what is being taught at church I can leave and find one that I can stand with. My pastor always says “If you’re looking for the perfect church it will become imperfect as soon as I walk in”.

    • futurelife

      Really? The pastors today don’t even read from the Bible but to take “one” verse here or “one” verse there and then preach on that “one” verse for 5 min of sermons to 1/2 hours of sermons. I went to one church where music was more important then the sermon and so the sermon was only 5 min long but the music lasted 30 min. Our churches need to open the Bible, the Words of God, not a quarterly or other books to teach its “flock” A pastor means to “feed” its flocks, so what has happen to the “pastors”? They are in a drought.
      A drought of fear of Feds and of their “higher” church government.

      • Terri

        I’m sorry that you have not found a church that you can call home but that is not the fault of anyone but yourself. The music in church is just as important as the sermon. There is a whole book of songs in the bible, most written by David, it’s called the book of Psalms. Maybe we should allow the Holy Spirit to do as he pleases without us looking at our watches.

    • RedStateKitty

      I think he’s spot on, if a bit too inflammatory in style for me.

      I know in the churches I have been in lately as a visitor and a member, the people are anxious not just for heart preaching to help us understand and apply the Word to our lives, but also to learn out our faith can be applied to impact our culture and country. The most vocal responses during messages have come when the pastor (in only one church in one message I heard out of all the many I’ve heard in the past few years) mentioned the homosexual lobby and the effort to make this practice accepted!

      We’re getting the first (applying the Word to our personal lives, encouragement to read and study ourselves, too); but very little of the second (being able to impact our culture and country).

      We don’t get messages on why it’s wrong to live together before marriage (and there’s a Christian mingle poll now that says more than 60% of Christian singles see no problem with sex before marriage); no teaching on what the bible says about homosexuality or how to approach someone who believes differently but has no basis in fact; how ‘same sex’ marriage impacts the society and the family in a very destructive way; very little about the issue of abortion except during January every year, nothing about how to protect yourself and be discerning on the content of the media you consume, (and actually some pastors think it’s ‘cool’ to cite characters and content from anti-family, anti-Christian television programs and movies) little about how Christians can impact our government for our own betterment; and so on.

      • Terri

        I am blessed to have a pastor that teaches and preaches from the whole bible. I have never heard him interject his political views. I don’t want to know his political views. People forget that we must work out our own salvation (Phil 2:12) and to study to show ourselves approved (2 Tim. 2:15) but yet we will sit in a church that we get nothing out of and then want to blame the pastors.

  • Brit Capitalist

    “The church is currently so divided and defeated with such minutiae that we can’t agree on which shade of white to use for our surrender flag.”

    Ain’t that the truth!

    Message to the Marxist Pope and all Pastors and Priests wherever you may be:
    Say NO where God says NO or face the admonishment found in Matthew 7:21-23

    I Never Knew You

    21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but
    he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

  • http://www.moralmatters.org/ NathanMBickel

    Besides that of the tax exempt status reason, I believe that Christian pastors are poor patriots because they want to ride out their parish pastor experience without being cited by their peers and their individual denominational church hierarchy. They simply do not want to jeopardize their pensions. In short they want to keep their “higher-ups” happy no matter if love of God, country and / or their fellowman suffers in the process. Their timidity is no excuse. Christ called them to be disciples, not wimps.

  • David Mills

    Doug, we haven’t solved whether Calvin or Wesley was right (tiresome Calvin vs Armenian fight), whether Jesus did or didn’t make wine, and whether the KJV only church should play basketball with the Presbyterians.. We can’t be expected to nuance whether government or the church should play the role of helping the poor, and to what extent.
    But I think we all agree the Wesboro Baptist Church people are all huffing paint.

    • futurelife

      You must be young or stupid… Long ago, before “government” took over or even SS was created, the church took care of its peoples. But, like in the Bible, people decided they din’t want God but kings to be their leaders and so trouble came. It isn’t the church that makes up being a Christian belief, but it is what is preached in that church. Christ even said something to that of 10 churches and what they taught. Only 2 passed His way of teaching.

      • David Mills

        Futurelife BLUF: Snobbery isn’t your best attribute. First, I don’t write under an assumed name, and one look at my profile would show you I’m not “young”. Second, I was the #2 guy running personnel recovery operations for special ops in Afghanistan on a particular deployment for the “get BinLaden” teams, so I would not consider myself stupid. None of the Christians I hang with would talk to a stranger and start off “you must be stupid”. So right away you turn me off to anything else you want to instruct me in. Third, I didn’t say anything in my post what warranted a demented diatribe from you. I was trying to keep it light. Maybe you think the Internet gives you a right to be a jerk, but something tells me no one outside of your tradition wants to talk theology with you and you take it as a badge of honor.

  • Janice Foster

    This Preacher Girl speaks out for the Citizens and Freedoms of America and I really fear no one but God. Everything I knew about this wrongful politican and his sidekicks
    was because of the process of learning through the past years of what was to come and the dictator was just what God showed me and now Americans should stand up and impeach him and the voters should remove the rest of his sidekicks by voting against them! Please be nice about this Preacher girl I am 70 years old and wisdom and knowledge and the gift of discernment goes along ways in my life. I have never received salaries for the Work of God and I am amongst the poorest of the poor, but God has and will always taken care of me and mine. Blessed!

    • bitterrootbill

      Nonsense! You, Ma`am are rich beyond words!

    • Terri

      AMEN! Your riches are stored in heaven. God Bless You!

  • Janice Foster

    There are no “surrender” flags in America! There is no “retreating from God and American ways and freedoms”!

    • futurelife

      I feel you are wrong. Why? Look of what Rick Warren is trying to do. He wants Christians and islum to join “together”. One can “serve two masters” and he wants this to happen and many churches today want the same.


    You left out #11, only black revs. like the clowns Al, Jesse & Wright, can speak out. It’s a color thing and they won’t be touched. White ministers are scared to be targeted.

  • CarolinaSistah

    Great points. But the tenth reason should move up to number one! It is the love of money that is the root of all evil. And it is evil for the man of God to fail to lead the flock to safety. They will suffer greatly at the hand of God (Eze 34:2)

  • LTsiao

    One of my pastors said that if he “stepped on some toes” during his sermons that he was aiming too low, that he really wanted to “aim at our hearts” to produce change for the good in us and then in the world.
    Wise words.

    • futurelife

      One should teach from God’s Word, not to worry of what people think as not all have wisdom. If one covers up TRUTH of HIS WORDS, then which toes do they really step on? God’s or man’s?

      • LTsiao

        His point, as I recall, was that it was his job to change our hearts into hearts after Christ. Your “toes” weren’t the target. He was not concerned with offending anyone except God. He felt it was his duty to preach truth, not matter what the “cost”.
        Ephesians 4:29. This verse talks about not using unwholesome speech, but what is good for building people up, likely that would include words some may not want to hear.

  • texas57

    Good article Doug, thanks for sharing


    Not all teachers of the Word are as many describe here. Sadly, for many Christians, after some tasteless experience, begin to assume all are the same. I do agree that many Bible teachers are as described and for that congregation (and preacher) I sorrow. Yet, we must reflect on what the Bible does speak concerning those looking just to have “their ears tickled” The Bible teaching church I fellowship at expounds the Word of God verse by verse. It has over taken 8 years to work through 4 NT books. I’d say the goal is to get the Word into the believer. As Scripture addresses political standards and exhortations so as does our pastor. He is not afraid to address hot topics with balance and wisdom. Though he is just a man, fallible, I highly respect the spiritual gift Yahweh has given him to shepherd the flock. Sometimes we have to go through alotta bad ones before we find a good one. But to lump all pastors into one type of useless and dangerous (my description) is ignorant. Let us spur one another on to seek out the church that is healthy and alive with the Spirit of God, exempt our own personal agendas. If you are a Christian you are a part of the Body of Christ. Pray and ask The Lord to lead you to where you will be healthy. Let us be accountable to our walk versus getting sidetracked and hung up on the blind leading the blind. Yahweh will deal with those who lead by the flesh.

    “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;” (2 Tim 4:3)

  • chaslie45

    This article makes some valid points but is written in a little too pithy of a manner for my taste.

    • David Zuniga

      Would you say, then, that you’re pithed off?

  • lisarichards124

    Doug Giles: THANK YOU, THANK YOU AND THANK YOU for writing this and speaking everything we parishioners can’t stand in wussy PC pastors who need to act more like Paul and less like Voltaire

  • lisarichards124

    Keep talking like Doug, that’s why Doug Rocks! And makes sense!

  • momprayn

    Yes, we need more “Dietrich Bonnhoeffers” (Germany, WWII) !! My husband, I and my family agree with you. My guess is it’s mostly the “pride”, “fear of man” factors, which is nothing new. They don’t want to “offend” anyone – which the Biblical writers said it would be – the message is offensive to man’s carnal nature and our pride. They also don’t really have the faith needed – they think they have to do it “man’s way” in order to attract more – which also means more money and more attention/fame in “Christendom”, etc. The Bible says just preach the Word, without hesitation, apology or “watered down” or any other opinions/additions by man. God/Holy Spirit will work on the people to “bring them in”.

    Many are also sincere but are ignorant/confused about the tax exemption.
    Then there are those that teach erroneously about “social justice”. There are
    many who are strong pro-lifers but they are taught at church that they must vote
    for those that will “help the poor”, etc. – which is more important and that
    this is what Jesus would do and want. Wrong.

    We all should pray for God to work on all of them and do some shaking.
    Also we who are going to these churches can perhaps enlighten their ministers
    about the tax exemption and urge them to start speaking to these important
    issues. There’s nothing wrong with stating what the Bible says about
    these issues. If nothing else, just do that. If people don’t like it, so be it
    – leave it to God to handle.

    Re the “rapture” topic — that specific word may not be mentioned in the
    Bible but this is the Biblical meaning that is meant when they use it as the
    descriptive word rapture (to be caught up):

    “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice
    of an archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise
    first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP together with them
    in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air…” 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17

    But this is not a “salvation issue” to be divided on. We should only be
    concerned about salvation issues as the Bible warns us about. You will have
    enough there to debate about. We don’t need anything like the music, order of
    worship, etc. I will say that to preach dogmaticly that the “rapture” will
    come before the Tribulation is harmful and could lead to many being
    disillusioned when/if that doesn’t happen and may leave the church, Jesus,
    etc. It’s much better to at least say they don’t know for sure. Just give ALL
    scriptures on a topic because all scriptures have to agree if we believe the
    Bible is inspired from God – and you have to know all scriptures in context in
    order to come to the correct conclusion. This clears up a lot of divisive,
    misunderstood issues.

  • Pearce

    What you need to do is READ THE BIBLE YOURSELF, If you believe you will understand the message. It is Gods plan for you to live by. GOD Bless

  • Paladin67

    “What God knows about me is more important than what others think about me”
    Pretty much explains it all…

  • TooTallTom

    501c status does not exempt churches or any non-profit from paying sales tax. Your comment about hot dogs at Costco is not accurate.

    • Terry Lee

      It does in Mississippi, Indiana, Kentucky, and Florida. These are all places where I have been a Pastor and been tax exempt. That is why the give you the number.

  • Blither box

    To pass the collection plate,they will cave on anything.I read the bible and theres a difference between the world and the spirit.The chruches are businesses of the world.
    They have nothing to do with the spirit,they manipulate emotions from your animal just like at voodoo ceremonies.Meanwhile the world gets worse and the church goers put money in the plate and pretend they are doing god’s work.That must be how the world got this way.Whats wrong with the golden rule?Why do you need all the pomp and ritual?Do people who go to church even read the bible?

  • Terry Lee

    I do not know where denominational structures fit in this list but I put candidate signs in my yard and the denominational leaders told me to remove them. They said since I live in the parsonage and it is church property it violates 501(c) 3 rules.

  • Terry Lee

    Just curious. How many of you pastors concealed or open carry on Sundays or whatever day you worship corporately?

  • Audrey Russo

    Spot OOOOOON, Doug! Sadly, I have more vertebrae and testosterone than most males in the pulpit :-/

    • Dave

      Hell, a jellyfish has more backbone than does 99% of the alleged messengers of God who spew their BS from behind the pulpit today.

  • anon


    • David

      Freedom to lie to the American people????

  • Chemman01

    It is a sad day when such a post has to be made but what do expect when we have professionalized the pastorate and think it is the pastors duty to do everything including clean the kitchen sink.

  • reyol

    Christianity has essentially been neutered since Victorian times. Jesus has become a bearded lady. Pastors and priests speak in soft feminine tones. And confrontation is highly disapproved of by the mostly female congregations. Church discipline is nonexistent – dis-fellowship someone and they just go to another church. Why repent when another church will assure you of salvation? Competition is another factor. The churches that make people ‘feel good’ are the ones that become mega-churches. ‘Judging Not’ and forgiving, no matter what, has disarmed the church.

    It wasn’t always so. Jesus would give a ‘difficult teaching’ to a mass following and watch them melt away. Jesus physically and violently drove the money changers from the temple courtyard. Jesus recommended to his followers to buy a sword (Peter certainly had his!). Jesus defeated the devil! The Lord gave military advice to the Israelites. Many of Jesus’s parables depicted rulers dealing harshly with subjects. Does ‘Judging Not’ mean that a Christian cannot sit on a bench as a judge? Does forgiveness mean that a Christian MUST forgive the unrepentant always? Recommendations or commandments?

    Perhaps we should say the church has low testosterone and is flowing abundantly with estrogen.

  • johnnywoods

    You missed the one most important point,they are not really Christians and they do not know Christ from “the man in the moon”.

  • me

    First time on this site and first read of the author, so I don’t know your disappointments. However, this reads very sadly to me. I see pastors preaching the Word of God. Prayers for all that have been hurt….

    • selahgreene

      me, I have encountered far more pastors who are fearful of preaching even the Word of God, as that might offend some in the pews. They fear preaching about sin, which is actually a four letter word not to be uttered in most churches. The pastors fear preaching what Jesus preached: “If you love Me, obey My commandments.” If they teach what Jesus taught, that cowards are condemned to the lake of fire, they will be chastised by the politically correct and spiritually impotent in their church. What far too many pastors teach today lacks even the nourishment of milk, as they leave out the hard parts about sin, repentance, changing one’s life, being Holy, and reaching out to the world to bring His remaining lost children into the Kingdom.

      If there is no sin, as so many pastors teach (either actively, or by passively refusing to discuss sin), then there is no need for Jesus. So what do we offer the world? Feel-good nostrums, and a ‘personal relationship’ with Jesus, who was a really nice guy who taught really nice warm and fuzzy stuff.

  • Oscar’s Wilde

    Although some complain about liberty’s negative sense of being defined as the absence of coercion, much good is defined by the lack of evil.

  • Henry

    The so-called Christian Clergy of America is self-gagged
    by the U.S. Government under the IRS 501(c 3) Tax-Exempt Code, as outlined in
    page 5 of the IRS Tax Guide for Churches, and Religious Organizations,
    Publication 1828 (Rev. 6-2008) Catalog Number 21096G.

    Therefore, every 501(c 3) Church must have an IRS
    recognized and approved creed of worship, and a system of doctrine.

    And must remain Neutral on Political Issues.

    And may not create a Political Action Committee, nor support or oppose

    And may not take a stand against the illegal Personal Income Tax

    And must advocate and support Multiculturalism or Globalism.

    And may not oppose the Public School System.

    And may not publicly or outside the bounds of the Church declare
    obedience to God, rather than the Government.

    And must give to the IRS an account of all the financial transactions of
    the Church, and must provide the names of all Church donors to the IRS.


    • darkcyder

      Jay Seculo’s ACLJ is looking for a few good pastors to stand up and be willing court cases against these improperly assumed laws.

      • selahgreene

        Sekulow is a good man on the front lines of the battle against the Powers and Principalities. The first thing he is going to hear when he meets the Lord is “Well done, good and faithful servant.”

        The IRS has tried to intimidate churches into being silent on ‘political’ issues (abortion, sanctity of marriage, LGBTs), but it is time to break through that gag. If churches lose their tax exempt status, so be it. As Doug so aptly puts it, the Church of Jesus has been around a lot longer than the IRS. If the IRS tells us we can’t deduct our donations to the church, so what? Is that why we give, so we can get a bigger tax refund check? Or for the glory of God?

    • 2EdgedSword

      I don’t know why there are not more likes on your pointed statement. Well we both do, but it isn’t crowded on the “narrow way” we travel. I’ve traveled more often alone to combat or not, and feel far more enabled, mobilized, aware when walking point. Even so we don’t walk alone. His connectedness links our spirits no matter how “apparently distant” we may be geographically. God made distance and time – both are illusions that temporarily serve Him and us at His pleasure. He has often closed both at his pleasure, even extending the day to favor Israelite warriors in once instance. The IRS, DHS, FEMA, Supreme Court, and other artifacts of the corporation The United States of America are tottering towers floating out to the abyss on a thin sheet of ice metaphorically. They have all the data and can’t watch or digest a spoonful of it. Our war is coming, and they will initiate it. It is their own misdeeds that are preparing us, fueling our zeal, and honing our wisdom.

  • 2EdgedSword

    The personal relationship with Jesus is foundational…in Christianity…and anathema in Socialist Liberation Theology. My personal relationship renders me fearless of the church power elite, and the temporal cliques wielding the latest fads. Personal relationship is not a stand alone, because Jesus formulated fellowship as one of two commandments He will require of us:

    [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
    [37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
    [38] This is the first and great commandment.
    [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    [40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
    Matthew 22:36-40

    It is intuitively obvious that one can not safely or sanely rely on the integrity of any church, its hierarchy, or the office of Sheppard to be filled by anything other than a mercenary hireling, a wolf in sheep’s clothing. The Fabian Socialists have successfully diluted many churches. Temporal churches, and pastors are merely “gifts” when and where they occur. Jesus us free to serve, do combat in the most creative manner, and operate above fear or concern for the scorn of the world.

    The young are now catered to for the identical reason the military limits recruiting to the young – they are impressionable, without wisdom, and can be pushed along like dust under the janitor’s mop. I’ve observed a dramatic increase in sexual exchange between pastor’s and their young political base too.

    • Eli Odell Jackson

      Amen brother preacher.
      For when the wolf comes the bad shepherd, the hireling, will run, even as he has preached his casper-milktoast and honey goldilocks gospel that wolf will come a calling and he will not have the armor and assurance of the Lord to fight, and so he will run and be run down with his sheep, and be taken down to that dirty wolves den deep beneath.

  • darkcyder

    Thanks, Doug. I have been complaining about this since the Clinton era, when preachers across the nation missed a great opportunity to point out to the youth in their congregation something that was WRONG. Instead, they simply shut up. And they have been crickets on politics ever since.

  • Eli Odell Jackson

    ‘Christian rock’
    ‘rock’, or as I call it ‘mud’ music is of the devil

  • Jon McCasper

    Those attempting to displace our moral standards with savage instincts may yet destroy the framework upon which liberty and prosperity depend.

    • Ann Wilson

      From the “Song of Deborah” Judges 5:26-27,31

      Her hand reached for the tent peg,
      her right hand for the workman’s hammer.
      She struck Sisera, she crushed his head,
      she shattered and pierced his temple.
      27 At her feet he sank,
      he fell; there he lay.
      At her feet he sank, he fell;
      where he sank, there he fell—dead.
      31 “So may all your enemies perish, Lord!
      But may all who love you be like the sun
      when it rises in its strength.”

      Then the land had peace forty years.
      When the men feared going into battle as the Lord instructed them too, he sent a woman to do the job. This was not a compliment to the timid men.

      • selahgreene

        Ironic that her ‘General’ was named Barak. He refused to go to war against the Canaanites and their General Sisera unless Deborah went with him and held his hand. “If you’ll go with me, I’ll go,” Barak replied. “But if you won’t go with me, then I’m not going.” Judg 4:8.

        Sounds a lot like the girly-boyz who infest our culture today. They never grow up to be men.

  • Ann Wilson

    All of the above reasons are correct and it can be summed up in one word, FEAR.

    They fear possible division, retaliation from oppressors, displaying their lack of knowledge etc. I pray they can become bold in the Lord to stand firm, expose evil and do good as they have the ability to reach so many people for the good. Let’s all pray for them and encourage them and offer to assist them in the coming days.

    The wicked are overthrown and are no more, but the house of the
    righteous stands firm. Proverbs 12:7 You will be hated by
    everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end
    will be saved. Matthew 10:22 Be on your guard; stand firm in the
    faith; be courageous; be strong. 1 Corinthians 16:13 Now it is God who makes
    both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 2Corinthians 1: 21

  • Speaking The Truth

    Of all the supporters of the homosexual agenda there has been no greater
    supporter then the Christian ministers across the U.S.!

    It is
    indisputable that the ministers across the U.S. are directly responsible
    for the attacks against religious faith!

    Ministers along with a number of the faithful have continued to
    stand silently by as homosexuality, homosexual mock marriage, homosexual
    adoption, abortion, atheism, and a host of deviant behaviors are

    And there is no doubt that the Catholic church has been the
    biggest cheerleader for the homosexual agenda! The Catholic church for
    years has become a breeding ground for the proliferation of homosexuals,
    as well as homosexual pedophiles! They have done nothing to clean these
    homosexuals or homosexual pedophiles out of their ranks!

    The Catholic
    church and its hierarchy wield tremendous power and influence through
    the U.S. social, and political culture, and still continues to exploit a host of social
    maladies, and corruptions! God will hold these and other community
    ministers most accountable for their total lack of discipline and
    oversight in carrying out their responsibility to speak against these

    Thur out history there has always been a direct correlation
    between the failure of the clergy to stand on what they know to be
    right and Godly, and the harm civilizations have suffered because of it!

    Clergy are responsible for the stewardship and implantation of Biblical
    truths, morality, mores, and norms to a society, and are to provide for the overall health and well being
    of the society in which they serve! But as they remain silent calamity

    God will hold them most accountable in the future judgments for
    violating their core vows and the values they have swore to be faithful
    to! The Christian ministry and the men and women that serve within that
    ministry are responsible for setting the moral cues, the benchmarks, the bulwark of
    integrity and morality for the nation they serve!

    But when they fail to
    do their job the nation suffers! The primary responsibility of the
    Christian ministry is to be a stop-gap, a bumper, a means of protection against
    corruption and decay within a society!

    Governments role is to see to it
    that the Christian ministry moves within a society unfettered according
    to the 1st amendment of the U.S. Constitution

    Congress shall make no
    law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free
    exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press;
    or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the
    Government for a redress of grievances.

    Although most ministers have
    prohibited, and or excused themselves from expressing the free exorcise of their
    ministry to the nation! Many have become nothing more then an apologist
    for the Gospel, what a disgrace!

    In the last year in the local
    congregation in the particular community you reside in when was the last
    time your minister spoke out concerning the homosexual agenda,
    homosexual mock marriage, homosexual adoption, homosexual surrogacy, abortion, pedophilia?

    As I have said, many clergy see their job as an occupation rather then a calling
    to minister the Gospel! It is never the job of the minister to provide a
    comfortable environment for homosexuality or other forms of corruption!
    If they want help fine, if they don’t want to change they should be
    lovingly and boldly ask to leave! Light can have no fellowship with the
    unfruitful works of darkness! You wouldn’t allow all this devilishness in your home, why would
    you allow it in your place of worship? Maybe the church can once again
    stand up, and proclaim the great admonition of Jesus Christ to the nation they are to serve!

    16:15 And he said to them, You are they which justify yourselves before
    men; but God knows your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among
    men is abomination in the sight of God.

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