About the author: Steve Pauwels

Steve Pauwels is pastor of Church of the King, Londonderry, NH and managing editor of ClashDaily.com

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  • Erin Ashley Hedges

    Remind we why we need to include christians in a show that has nothing to do with christians whatsoever?

    • Lugh

      Hedges? Of the Benson’s and Hedges lineage? You look like a smoker.

    • RELee

      Not to be disrespectful but you must not have paid attention in your History classes because the British Isles were mostly Christian at this time in history. One of the ancient prayers the Brits contained the lines: “Save us O Lord from the wrath of the Northmen and their vicious dogs.”

    • sjplwc

      Erin, do you watch the show? THEY include Christians — inaccurately. They introduce their absurdly unattractive Christian characters. I am responding to that.

  • robocop33

    I understand the writers love of our God and Christianity but get real, this show is called ‘The Vikings’ and not ‘Vikings vs Christians’. During the time of Ragnar there were no Christian Vikings and yes they thought the Christians weak and easy pickings as they did not fight back but they had almost all the riches in the areas that the Norsemen went “Viking”. Viking was a term for their attacks and not of the people themselves BTW. During that time period many, if not most of theBishops were in fact corrupt

    • RELee

      I agree with most of your post. However to state that “many, if not most bishops were corrupt” is an Evangelical/Jehova’s Witness fallacy. It is usually mentioned that the Roman Catholic Church had seized control of the Church at this time and the REAL Church went into hiding. This is wishful thinking by anti-papists which has no historical support whatsoever. Of course there was corruption since all men are sinners. Yet the Roman Church did not come into existence until AD 1054 with the Great Schism. Only then do you have a Roman Catholic Church in the west and a Greek Orthodox Church in the east. The only reason Evangelicals and Jehova’s witnesses developed this alternate history is to justify their existence. Why? Because St. Paul wrote, “That there should be no schism in the body; but [that] the members should have the same care one for another.” – I Cor. 12:25

      • TheRentschmeister

        “an Evangelical/Jehova’s Witness fallacy”?!?!?

        Wait….what?

        Define: “REAL Church”

        Do you mean the “REAL Church” that embraced Pagan idolatry and holidays like Christmas and Easter? Or the “REAL Church” who grew fat on the backs of the poor?

        It’s fascinating to watch one talk about “no SCHISM”, it’s almost like Martin Luther and the Protestant movement never existed. At least the Protestants turned away from Idolatry in the beginning, so there’s that.

        “Alternate history” Indeed.

        • RELee

          Yes an Evangelical/Jehova’s Witness fallacy. There no records, none, zip, that prove Roman Catholicism dominated the entire Church ever. After the Great Schism in 1054 it dominated the west until the Reformation in 1521.

          REAL Church- The body of Christ, the “pillar and ground of the Truth”(I Tim. 3:15), both physical and spiritual. To say it is the invisible body of believers is a gnostic heresy. The Church began in AD 33, Acts Chapter 1, 2. They met in Council Acts Ch. 15. They continue from that time to this day in the Orthodox(meaning “right doctrine”,”right glory”) Christian Church. Luther pointed to them when he broke from Rome stating “The Greeks [Orthodox] . . . are not heretics or schismatics but the most Christian people and the best followers of the Gospel on earth.”

          Christmas and any other Christian Holy day are an attempt to sanctify time and reclaim it from the pagans. Dec. 25 was chosen for Christmas the shortest day, light inceases and June 25 the birth of John the Baptist the longest day, light decreses of the year reflecting on John’s statement in the scriptures “He must increase while I must decrease”
          We do not call it “Easter” in the Orthodox Church. It is the Feast of the Resurrection, Pashca or Passover since it is the Christian Passover where death now passes us over because Christ rose from the dead “trampling down death by death and upon those in the tombs bestowing life.”

          REAL HISTORY

          • TheRentschmeister

            Uh……….you do realize that in the British Isles, the Celtic “Church” developed considerably differently than rest of the pagan apostasy that you label “The Real Church”. They also practiced idolatry, worked pagan rituals and beliefs into their “worship” and (like your “Real Church”) attempted to justify it away. Of course, if it wasn’t for the 2nd Century apostasy, Christendom of today would follow the Aryan belief system of Jesus’s 1st Century disciples/followers.

            But feel free to dazzle us with more talk of how worship of the Babylonian Goddess Ishtar Toooooooooooootally has nothing to do with Easter. Yes, the Fertility Goddess festival……….celebrating Spring’s promise of a pushing away the cold winter nights………where Rabbits……….and Eggs……….are symbols of said Fertility……only today the Modern Apostates call them “The Easter Bunny” and “Easter Eggs” which Toooooooooooooootally have Zip, Zero, Nada, Zilch to do with symbols of fertility and instead represent……..Jesus? Yes, all the Apostles sitting around painting eggs, oh what times those must have been.

            Right next to them calling Jesus………….”God”, right?

            I wonder if anyone bothered to tell Joseph that his brother was God? Or that in just a few short centuries, instead of their Monotheistic beliefs, Apostates would embrace the Pagan ideology of the Egyptians, Babylonians, etc and cook up a fun little “Trinity” that not one of Jesus’s 1st Century followers (especially those who were, like Jesus, Jews) would ever imagine.

            If ONLY I could think of the Scripture where Jesus encouraged his followers to embrace Pagan holidays and make them their own. If only….

            Ah……….good times!

          • RELee

            Actually I am aware of how the Celtic Church developed separately from the “Romanized” west until the Council of Whitby in the 7th century when authority from Cantebury was forced upon them.
            It is obvious you’re not aware that the Celtic Church also celebrated the feast of the Resurrection but not on the proscribed date. They were known as the Quatrodecimens who celebrated 14 days after the Jewish Passover.
            And it is obvious you’re not aware that the NT was not compiled until the 4th century. Maybe that’s why St. Paul wrote “The Church” NOT the scriptures, is “the pillar and ground of the Truth” in I Tim 3:15. So ‘sola scriptura’ could not possibly be true.
            You can live in your man made doctrinal world which is neither scriptural nor Christian. Ah the bliss of willful ignorance!

          • TheRentschmeister

            It is obvious that you’re not aware about what the Scripture says about people like yourself prostrating yourself in front of the golden calf:

            Jeremiah 10:1-5 “Hear the word that the Lord speaks to you, O house of Israel. Thus says the Lord: “Learn not the way of the nations, nor be dismayed at the signs of the heavens because the nations are dismayed at them, for the customs of the peoples are vanity. A tree from the forest is cut down and worked with an axe by the hands of a craftsman. They decorate it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so that it cannot move. Their idols are like scarecrows in a cucumber field, and they cannot speak; they have to be carried, for they cannot walk. Do not be afraid of them, for they cannot do evil, neither is it in them to do good.”

            Colossians 2:8 “See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.”

            (See what I did there? Went Old School and New School……..yet both say the same thing)

            Isaiah 66:1-24 “Thus says the Lord: “Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool; what is the house that you would build for me, and what is the place of my rest? All these things my hand has made, and so all these things came to be, declares the Lord. But this is the one to whom I will look: he who is humble and contrite in spirit and trembles at my word. “He who slaughters an ox is like one who kills a man; he who sacrifices a lamb, like one who breaks a dog’s neck; he who presents a grain offering, like one who offers pig’s blood; he who makes a memorial offering of frankincense, like one who blesses an idol. These have chosen their own ways, and their soul delights in their abominations; I also will choose harsh treatment for them and bring their fears upon them, because when I called, no one answered, when I spoke, they did not listen; but they did what was evil in my eyes and chose that in which I did not delight.” Hear the word of the Lord, you who tremble at his word: “Your brothers who hate you and cast you out for my name’s sake have said, ‘Let the Lord be glorified, that we may see your joy’; but it is they who shall be put to shame.”

            Golly, pretty harsh talk about people like yourself who worship idols, take pagan observances and pretend that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would ever, at any point, at all, ever, approve.

            You can hide behind your pagan holidays and prostrate yourself before your false idols, but as for me……….I’ll stick with the truth.

            Hows that research coming on Jesus giving the go ahead for apostates like yourself practicing pagan worship and labeling it……..”good”? Bunny Rabbits and Eggs………..equal “Jesus”?!?!?!?!? Seriously, how RICH is it that the pagan who prostrates himself before graven images and practices pagan holidays that are, at NO POINT mentioned in ANY Scripture ANY where………..talk about a “man made doctrinal world”?!?!?!?!?!?

            BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!

          • Croco Dile

            The Christian Religion – shown to be a congeries of revamped Pagan Superstitions and of Priestly Lies – is not respectable for belief. Every honest and self-respecting mind must repudiate it in disgust.
            We can all “Do good, for good is good to do”!

            From :
            FORGERY IN CHRISTIANITY

            A Documented Record of the Foundations of the Christian Religion
            by Joseph Wheless 1930

          • RELee

            Paul’s epistles written around AD 54, Gospels between AD 60-95.
            You refuse to acknowledge the fact that historical records demonstrate that each congregation had a portion of the Bible which were handwritten on scrolls. No individual had his own copy until many centuries later. The majority could not read. Therefore icons were used to illustrate Bible stories.
            But hey you know everything without studying anything.
            I feel as if I’m discussing this with Jack Chic himself. Have a good day!

          • TheRentschmeister

            You keep refusing reality that from the Essenes to Egyptian Church, NO group had the same “Scriptures”, not all agreed was LEGIT and what was not. When I mention the copy of the Gospel of John from 125 AD, that would be the OLDEST surviving copy of said Scriptures. But keep yammering on about when the books were written. It’s CUTE! What’s even CUTER is, I DO want you to keep regurgitating how you LEGITAMIZE your IDOLATRY.

            Let’s think………..how did they handle folks who bowed down to idols………….let me think…………….

            Exodus 20:3-6 “You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.”

            Leviticus 19:4 “Do not turn to idols or make for yourselves any gods of cast metal: I am the Lord your God.”

            But this is my favorite bit about how to deal with Idolators:

            Deuteronomy 7:2-6 “And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them: 3Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. 4For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly. 5But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire. 6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.”

            So yes, tell us some more about how Idols were used in the Temple, for all of those poor Jews just like those who went to temple beside Jesus himself. Al those poor Jews who couldn’t read……….yet THEY turned their back on idols.

            But the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would TOTALLY change his mind for Idolators like YOU, right?

            It isn’t like God’s will is IMMUTABLE or anything? Right?

            Thank you for allowing me to illustrate how utterly empty and without an ounce of redeemable virtue your twisted belief system is (as anything built upon lies would be).
            Congrats!!!!!

          • RELee

            Okay smart guy resolve this: In Exodus 20:3-6 “You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.”

            Then in Ex. 25:15-22 God directs Moses to make GRAVEN IMAGES OF HEAVEN:”The staves shall be in the rings of the ark: they shall not be taken from it.
            And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.
            And thou shalt make a mercy seat [of] pure gold: two cubits and a half [shall be] the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof.
            And thou shalt make two cherubims [of] gold, [of] beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.
            And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: [even] of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.
            And the cherubims shall stretch forth [their] wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces [shall look] one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.
            And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.
            AND THERE I WILL MEET WITH THEE, AND I WILL COMMUNE WITH THEE FROM above the mercy seat, from BETWEEN THE TWO CHERUBIMS WHICH [ARE] UPON THE ARK OF THE TESTIMONY, of all [things] which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.”

            Now God put IMAGES in Hebrew worship. Have a nice life!

          • TheRentschmeister

            Uh……………Earth to Captain Idolator:

            So placing small angels on the box that held the tablets that God wrote his law on……….that NO ONE but the High Priests were allowed to look upon………………even the Levites who carried the COVERED Ark (as it was ALWAYS covered when being transported) before it found it’s final
            home in the Temple were not allowed to gaze upon the Ark…..

            yet that is the SAME as the craven idols that you and your ilk prostrate your selves before?????

            Don’t tell me, you only gaze upon those idols of yours while you stand in the Holy of Holies, right? Do you wear your High Priest attire while in there? It’s funny watching an Idolator trying to jusitify his idolatry by referring to the Ark of the Covenant that NO ONE would venerate as an object of worship because NO ONE OTHER THAN THE PRIESTS COULD LOOK AT IT (and even Aaron himself was only allowed to approach the Ark ONE DAY A YEAR) since it was ALWAYS hidden from view.

            Yes, an Idol that NO ONE could idolize……………Brilliant!!!

            Again, thank you for making this so very, very easy.

          • RELee

            Your poor interpretation of the Scriptures, lack of historical knowledge of the Church, and willful ignorance bore me. I just can’t figure out whether you’re an Arian, Nestorian, Sabellian, or just someone who is his own “infallible pope” making it up as he goes. I refuse to continue to battle with an unarmed person. Good day sir. I will pray for you.

          • TheRentschmeister

            So………………..is that a “No” on wearing your Priestly attire while standing in the Holy of Holies?

            Your argument is as failed as your Satanic belief system. But as for me and mine, I’ll stick with the Holy Scriptures as they are EXACTLY written versus how YOU want them to be (and as I’ve demonstrated, they are quite specific where it comes to dealing with frauds like you).

            But on a personal note, it has been exceptionally satisfying owning someone like you.

            Thanks for making it so profoundly easy to do!
            “unarmed person” Indeed. Toodles!

    • sjplwc

      Doesn’t much matter what the Vikings thought. What matters is what was true. No decent Christians? No strong Christians? No noble Christians? History certainly proves otherwise. You wouldn’t know it from this program.

      • RELee

        But the program is only in its second season! They’re just really starting to introduce more Christian characters. Athelstan is not what all Christians are judged by.

      • chadbag

        I seriously doubt the Vikings in the show have been everywhere in the world. How many actual Christians have been shown in the show? Probably a low enough number to not be a representative sample. And btw, where the Vikings were riding in England and Ireland, the Christians probably were weak and wimpy in comparison. That is not a reflection on their faith, but on their actual physical existence. Even today, most Christians are sheep, not wolves.

    • chadbag

      Viking can properly refer to both, but you are correct that the Norse would “go a viking” when not farming in search of loot etc.

  • Jinglebob

    The Viking story line is just foretelling the coming future for Christians. History does indeed repeat itself when those that control the path control the end.

  • Laguna Beach Fogey

    I think the show is fine as it is without Christian do-gooders.

    • sjplwc

      Oh, well, than I take back everything I wrote …

      Not.

  • Mass Executions

    I love this show, and personally I think they are building up Athelstan to become a real Christian. I might be wrong, but they’re portraying it as if he’s trying to give up his faith and he can’t, while simultaniously recognizing the corruption of the official church. We will see where it goes. He does try to LITERALLY sacrifice himself to save someone else in one episode. I think they are also making Ragnar sympathetic to Christianity, to an extent.

    • sjplwc

      I hope Athelstan goes that way, Mass. If so, it will be a media earthquake.

  • RELee

    Steve,
    As an historian I know that dramas will always be skewed. As a Christian I would hope that our Christian historical figures would “outshine” their pagan contemporaries. This is not always true, especially in medieval northern Europe, where many local kingdoms converted to Christianity because their king did. The Viking leaders forced their people to convert.
    Have you ever studied Church history? Have you read about how Christians battled each other over doctrinal issues? The pagan historian Ammianus wrote that the emperor Julian the Apostate(4th cent.) allowed the return of heretical bishops to their sees because he “knew that no wild beasts were so hostile men as were the Christians to one another.”
    According to John J. Robinson in his book ‘Dungeon, Fire, and Sword’, a history of the Knights Templar and the Crusades, Robinson writes that St. Bernard of Clairveaux (11th-12th cent.) started the Templars to funnel the warlike energy of western Europe into the service of the Roman Catholic Church. Why? Because they still had not rid themselves of their tribal warrior tendencies.
    This is not to say there were no “godly” men or women. And Hollywood will always seek to find the worst. But this program is only in its second season. Let us see where it goes.

    • Guest

      So, you preferred the fiction? Somehow I’m not surprised.

      • RELee

        Fiction? Skewed maybe but not “fiction.” And thank you for demonstrating that Christian “virtue” of judgment.

    • sjplwc

      No doubt, stylistically Vikings has it all over the Bible series. I admit the show is artistically excellent in my first paragraph, but that wasn’t my point. Again, clearly there have been and still are many, many hypocritical, grotesque, unprincipled men and women who claimed/claim to be followers of Christ. That in no way justifies the wholesale misrepresentation of believers in this drama as uniformly sleazy, corrupt, weak. That slander doesn’t conform to actual history nor to my several decades of experience surrounded by folks who openly name the name of Christ. No doubt about it — w/out all the “awful” Christians who have populated the ages, the world would be a much grimmer place. Very arguably, Western Civilization as we know it, the modern approach to science as we view it, and so much else we take for granted as “civilized” living would have never even come into existence without the influence of the Christian faith and principles which have sprung from it.

      • RELee

        But I think we can agree that a good historical movie, drama, etc. about history which includes a closer to the truth view of Christians needs to have, at the very least, honest historians in regards to Christianity. I applaud Roma Downey and her husband’s attempt but they too need to be more accurate. And please! Better production quality! Jesus of Nazareth and The Passion of the Christ are way better! ;o)

      • Croco Dile

        “The RENAISSANCE – the achievements of the modern spirit in opposition to the spirit which prevailed during the Middle Ages”! (Catholic Encyclopedia XII, 765)

        During the Dark Ages of Faith men were born into the world with the same capacities and potentialities of intellect as were the Sages of Greece and the Jurisconsults and Statesmen of Rome. The poles are not farther apart, however, day and night not more different in volume of light, than the prechristian and Christian eras in point of intellectual product. Why so vast a difference? Simply – that the pre-Christian mind was free, and explored unfettered and unafraid the boundless zones of Nature, in search of the Supreme Good and the practical benefits to be wrung from the world in which Pagan man lived for the benefit of himself and of his kind : while the Christian mind was bound by what it regarded as revealed Truth and shackled by theology and priestcraft, which closed every highway and bypath of approach to Nature with the warning sign : “No Thoroughfare. Moses.” “When one has once believed, search should cease,” as Father Tertullian said. The ban of Eden “Of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge thou shalt not eat,” was enforced by the Priest by ecclesiastical censorship and burning of books, by the Inquisition of Faith, the Index, the rack, the stake.
        The ingrained aim and end of Man was Heaven; for that other-worldly destiny alone was he taught and trained; that was the whole Christian scheme of education and outlook on life; the things of this world were contemned and ignored.

        From :
        FORGERY IN CHRISTIANITY

        A Documented Record of the Foundations of the Christian Religion
        by Joseph Wheless – 1930

    • Croco Dile

      “Up to this time (1250) almost wholly absorbed in the supernatural, [men now] took more interest in worldly things. Unconditional renunciation of the world came to an end, and men grew more matter-of-fact and practical.” (Catholic Encyclopedia VI, 493)
      To forestall and check this dangerous restlessness of peoples, kings, and nascent nationality, the Church devised that since time-honored scheme of joining restless factions in war on some common enemy, thus to avert domestic difficulties : here was born the gigantic folly and crime of the Crusades, for the pretended rescue of the empty and apocryphal “Sepulchre of Christ from the Infidel.” This titanic scheme and its purposes are naively thus confessed : “The idea of the Crusades corresponds to a political conception which was realized in Christendom only from the eleventh to the fifteenth century : this supposes a union of all peoples and sovereigns under the direction of the popes…. The history of the Crusades is therefore intimately connected with that of the popes and the Church. These Holy Wars were essentially a papal enterprise. The idea of quelling all dissensions among Christians, of uniting them under the same standard and sending them forth against the Mohammedans was conceived in the eleventh century, at a time when there were as yet no organized states in Europe.” (Cath.Encyc. IV, 543,556) A more gigantic crime and overwhelming failure of ambitious design was probably never recorded in history.
      Says Cath.Encyc.: “The Crusades brought about results of which the popes had never dreamed, and which were perhaps the most important of all. They reestablished traffic between the East and West which, after having been suspended for several centuries, was then resumed with even greater energy; they were the means of bringing from the depths of their respective provinces and introducing into the most civilized Asiatic countries Western knights, to whom a new world was thus revealed, and who returned to their native land filled with novel ideas.

      From :
      FORGERY IN CHRISTIANITY

      A Documented Record of the Foundations of the Christian Religion
      by Joseph Wheless – 1930

      • RELee

        Good info. Thanks.

  • Lugh

    C.S Lewis, a master of Nordic Literature, found far less hatred in them than in the Old Testament. His explanation was that men who have found the Light will then hate the Darkness. Maybe, but it also sounds like an excuse. It gives Monotheists a license to hate without guilt. To put it another way, perhaps the cruelty of the Vikings was mostly personal and random, whereas the cruelty of the Christians, Jews, and Muslims was theological and political. Not completely though: sometimes the Vikings would sacrifice enemy combatants (and that included monks) to Odin – and it was a most unpleasant way to die (google the blood eagle).
    But consider another angle, Scandinavia had been the refuge of Germanics who fled from Christian Conquests. The Viking assault may have also been a counter attack. Of course they took booty as well – as if Christians and Jews didn’t? Yes, I’m playing Devil’s Advocate on this one. And no, I don’t think their Civilization was the equal of Christian Europe. But on the other hand, did it have to completely die and make Scandinavia just a second rate copy of the rest of Europe? Ireland converted to Christianity and kept much of its culture. The Church didn’t like that at all – a Celtic Church was competition. They wanted uniformity and used their influence to reign Ireland in.

    • sjplwc

      Bad “Christians” through the centuries? Of course. But it’s pretty hard to argue Christendom ever matched the sadistic viciousness of Viking hoards worked up into one of their berserker rages. You mentioned human sacrifice and the gruesome “blood eagle”. Yea, that’s a start. Meanwhile, for all the multitudinous shortcomings of “Christians” over the ages — btw, I’m including those who were mere “cultural” or “legacy” Christians (versus actual Christian converts) in that term — the doctrines, principles and teachings of Jesus and His people have transformed the world for the better in way unquantifiable. Western Civilization alone would be unrecognizable — well might not even exist at all — without the overarching influence of the Old and New Testaments. Doubtless, Viking heritage has made a few favorable contributions to modern life. The emphasis there, however, would be “a few”.

      • RELee

        I don’t know Steve. The Inquisition was pretty bad. So was the sack of Orthodox Christian Constantinople in 1204 by Roman Catholic Crusaders. Even Oliver Cromwell was ruthless against English and Irish Catholics. Can it match the Vikings? That is up to those who research these atrocities. I’m not defending the Vikings but I will not paint the ‘Christian’ atrocities any nicer. What we can say is that those committed in the name of Christ are not in line with Christian teachings. The Vikings however were following the teachings of their warrior gods.

        • sjplwc

          Who is defending the wrongs certain, professing Christians have committed over the years? As I stated explicitly in the column, and have repeated several times in the comments, the problem is that, in the world of History Channel’s “Vikings” there are no praiseworthy Christians, zero, not one. Sorry, that’s not okay with me. It sure ain’t accurate history.

          • RELee

            I didn’t say you were defending wrongs by professing Christians. You stated that nothing done by Christians can match the sadistic Vikings. I was just saying the Greeks will say the Crusaders did a good job of matching the Vikings when they sacked Constantinople. And Cromwell has been rated as one of the worst to torture enemies, namely Roman Catholics. And History Channel is famous for denigrating anyone who professes to be Christian.

      • chadbag

        “No one expects the Spanish Inquisition.” And look up The Crusades. I think you can find a lot of “church” directed cruelty and violence throughout history. The Vikings in reality were no worse than the other cultures of their times — all of which practiced raiding and plundering, warfare, slavery, etc.

        No doubt overall, the “Christian” example and way of life have been overwhelmingly positive in the world. But singling out a TV show that portrays a mostly non Christian people, as the Vikings were in the beginning (by the end of the Viking age, most were Christians) makes no sense. There were good and bad Norse just as there were good and bad Catholics. This show happens to be set in a time when that sort of behavior was commonplace in all cultures.

        • sjplwc

          I didn’t really criticize the way this show portrays the Vikings — rather, the way it is portraying Christians. Just like most of the pop culture trashes Christians in general. That’s the whole point of the column.

          • AG Dot Com!

            I would say, give it a minute. So far, the Christians have only about 20 minutes of real time in the show. The first portion of that was to shriek in horror, “OH CRAP, VIKINGS!!!” as Ragnar’s raider band hit the monastery, and now we have a king (Ecbert) who in fact existed, and was a pretty warlike guy – he is the king that defeated what many consider the first true kingdom of England – Mercia, under King Wyclif. So, let’s give a Viking a chance and see what they do with this interesting bit of fictionalized history…..

      • Croco Dile

        Think to what Civilization might have attained by this day. For two thousand years now Christianity has held sway and thrall over the most dominant part of the world and portion of the human race. In each generation for most of the two thousand years there have been hundreds of thousands of men and women, Priests, monks, nuns, and “religious” nondescripts, devoted through life to the unrealities of “Other-worldliness” to the utter neglect of the world in which they lived, resolved, all too oft, “to make of earth a hell that they might merit heaven.” In the pursuit of such impracticalities and to force all others to believe, doubtless millions of books and sermons of sophistry have been their output, not to mention ignorance, wars, famines, plagues and bestialities innumerable that they have brought about to the destruction of civilization. Thus, in aggregate, millions of human beings – many of them of very high mental capacity, have devoted some millions of years of labor or of sloth to Theology and Religion, lives, years and labor wasted ! If these years and labors had but been devoted to pure and applied Science, to the discovery and conquest of the powers of Nature, to Knowledge of the Worth While – medicine, surgery anesthetics, antiseptics, sanitation – the catalogue is endless; to the outlawry of War and the establishment of universal Peace; the abolition of Crime, Poverty, and Disease – in a word, to the Social Sciences and Service, to Humanism and the Humanities, instead of to Theism and Theology – to what glorious heights would not Civilization and Humanity have scaled !
        Religious Toleration and freedom of thought and of beneficent research, came in only as religious Faith went out; Civilization began only as the Dark Ages of Faith came to an end.

        From :
        FORGERY IN CHRISTIANITY

        A Documented Record of the Foundations of the Christian Religion
        by Joseph Wheless – 1930

        • Rick Rascoe

          You continue to spout drivel from this source, yet Christianity has contributed more to society than all other religions combined. In this country alone, most colleges and hospitals were Christian in origin, but then again, what God hating atheist would care to listen to TRUTH?

          • Croco Dile

            What you are calling the truth is just your delusion.
            You better research facts, poor Rick.

          • Rick Rascoe

            I think you should look up more sources than the author you quote who has a hatred for all religions; IE, a great axe to grind. Poor faithless athiest, at least you won’t have to worry about winter in the after life.

          • Croco Dile

            True, rick, I’m not worried at all.

            The so-called “afterlife” does not exist. It is a human invention.

            I vcan give you many more sources to learn, not just Joseph Wheless. His work is just really thorough…..

            Before the word Religion was introduced in the world mankind was only obliged to follow natural laws and to conform to common sense. This instinct alone was the tie by which men were united, and so very simple was this bond of unity, that nothing among them was more rare than dissensions. But when Fear created a suspicion that there were Gods, and invisible powers, they raised altars to these imaginary beings, and they subjected themselves by vain ceremonies and superstitious worship to frivolous phantoms of the imagination.

            Quoted from :
            Tribus famosissimus Nationum Deceptoribus, it was composed after the year 1230 by command of the Emperor Frederick II in hatred of the Court of Rome : and it is quite apparent that Pierre des Vignes, Secretary to the Emperor, was the author.

          • mtman2

            &-UR right about ‘the Croc’, and so I told him so in a nice way above, as he is lost in the shallow easy to pick up ‘fallen-fruit’ of a false trail. At least he is thinking which may mean he may look up to see better ‘fruit’ that must be climbed for!

          • Croco Dile

            The only good ‘fruit’ is the truth.
            It wants to be discovered.

          • Rick Rascoe

            Amen.

        • mtman2

          …..You really have it backwards but seem to mean well!
          However IF one goes down a dead end they must return back through the mistakes to then find the road that is ‘truth’.
          …..There’s much to learn Croc and you’ve got to dig deep enough to get to the root or it’s clearly a waste of time.
          Shallow evaluations from a distance an expert doesn’t make. Better not to say lest others see that one hasn’t done the work to run the race with those that can. So it is with the depth of knowledge, easily seen to drop out of the race if not within the capability to run the race at pace with those that finish at the front, rightly dividing the words approved of the truth.

          • Croco Dile

            I’m not in a foot race. I’m reading books of those who did examine this matter. Those are many…..
            If you want I can give you a few names of authors, and you can learn yourself.
            I don’t have it backwards, definitely not !

          • mtman2

            …..Your hatred and vitriol emanates from positions you don’t reveal in the cherry picked diatribes, yet aren’t hard to see between your twisted misguided lines of bigoted webs woven to re-spin what is -into what you somehow feel will convince others not fully self informed. Though will never do so for those that are, and you ARE WAY OVER YOUR HEAD IN DEEP WATER here. You have nothing to share or “teach” but selected misinformation, and you are intuitively aware of that.
            …..At this rate you’ll never see a true picture, until you desire this you will subjugate your understanding to being relegated by the dark place in which you live.

          • Croco Dile

            Then give me the true picture as you see it.

  • Guest

    A program that I stopped watching after the first couple of episodes since it’s so far removed from reality.

  • Ronald Freitas

    who do you think Leif Ericson Was , Son of Eric the Red ! Leif Erikson was a Christian look it up on the Internet look it up in history you know what all idiots

    • ironclad

      The conversion to Christianity of the Scandinavian people began in the 8th Century but took hundreds of years to take hold; even longer for some people. Just because one tribe accepted the new ways doesn’t mean that all gave up the security of the old.

  • kenhowes

    In a hall in Germany in 1521, before the Holy Roman Emperor and all his princes, dukes, and counts, the papal legate Cardinal Aleander, and archbishops and bishops of the Catholic Church, stood one man in the habit of an Augustinian monk, on trial for his life. He appealed to what? Social justice? No, to the Word of God. Some people know who Emperor Charles V was; a very few know who Cardinal Aleander was; almost nobody remembers the name of any of the others who sat there assembled. But that one man, with no army, and no weapon except the grace of God, his faith in that grace, and Holy Scripture, is remembered by the whole world. He finished his defense: “Until I can be shown from Holy Scripture and clear reason that I am wrong, I cannot and will not recant anything, for it is neither safe nor right to go against conscience. Here I stand. I cannot do otherwise. God help me. Amen.” That man was Martin Luther. That is the face of true Christianity. So are popes Leo the Great and Gregory the Great, St. Augustine, St. Ambrose, and all the martyrs of the early Church who died rather than recant.

    • RELee

      these are good points but what does this have to do with the topic?

      • kenhowes

        That Christian monks were not the effete cowards portrayed so often in shows about the Middle Ages but rather men who put their lives on the line for their faith.

        • RELee

          I agree.

  • Mike123456789123456789

    The Vikings were no less barbaric than their counter parts. Look at what the conquistadors did to the Inca’s and the other native people and that happened at a much later date. History is history it happened, get over it and learn from their mistakes.

  • AG Dot Com!

    I would argue, after reading this, that perhaps the author is taking this a bit far. While I am a Christian – and an Irish Catholic by birth! – this story is about Viking raiders during a time when Christianity was still contending with some of the older religions in the British Isles and Northern Europe. I think the intent is to show the Vikings as they truly were at that time – their contact with Christian culture is in fact incidental with their own story in the portrayed time period, at least for the moment. While I agree with the author on many points intellectually, I disagree, and I think “Vikings” is doing an outstanding job of portraying a single Viking band/clan/village in period behavior.

  • V8RX

    I love the”Vikings!” I think it’s a great series!! I don’t know why they have to bring religion into every discussion!! I watch a lot of older movies and shows on HISTORY and DISCOVERY CHANNELS. In the early days they were corrupt and murders!! The Catholic Church controlled everything including the KINGS!!! When it all comes down to it,They are just people too!! They hide their crimes behind religion!!!
    I think EVERYONE should be able to believe in whatever they want!! If you wang to worship a Pig,Cow,Goat,Jesus,or even a PISS ANT,so what!! It shouldn’t effect anyone else’s life! As long as you don’t PUSH your beliefs on others…..GO FOR IT!!!
    BUT PEOPLE DO PUSH THEIR BELIEVES!! AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH THE WORLD!!!

    • sjplwc

      V8RX — You compare Jesus to a pig, goat or a piss ant and we’re obnoxious? Oooo-kay! I’ll say it again: the series brought religion into the discussion. I’m responding to a conversation they started.

      • V8RX

        The point I wanted to make is; Why should it matter to anyone what someone else believes in? I didn’t compare anything. Religion is a believe. People have faith that what they are taught is correct and true.
        But,In reality. ….IT MAY OR MAY NOT BE THE CASE! I guess we will all know in the END!

  • Wes

    It’s the entertainment culture. Of course they sneer at anything remotely traditional and/or good in the confines of their luxurious elitist bubbles, since they themselves don’t have to worry about Viking raiders or starvation. If they were in the position of that British family that was massacred, THEN they would see the Vikings clearly.

    I’m glad the author mentions Thomas Cahill’s book How the Irish Saved Civilization! I recently acquired it and read it. Good stuff.

  • http://clashdaily.com/author/roncollins/ R.Collins

    I think the show is great and depicts quite accurately how 900ad looked. There werent many Christians, there were, however, many Catholics. It seems you assume that these cultist Catholics should represent Christianity any better than blatant pagan Vikings, I disagree. They both practice idolatry, an abomination in Gods eyes. Vikings just tells a good story, loosely based on historical times and places and events more than facts, but that’s just it, it is a story.

    • JojoJpclarksville

      Catholics ARE Christians.

      • http://clashdaily.com/author/roncollins/ R.Collins

        I do not agree with every bit of dogma and doctrine put forth by the Baptist Church, but please take a few days and study “The Trail of Blood”, and pray, to God, through Christ. As instructed by the scriptures, No man cometh unto the Father, but by me (Jesus). The scripture also plainly tells us that “there is no mediator between God and man – except Christ. As long as Catholics continue to place the pope and the numerous other fallible humans on pedestals to be worshiped, asked for mediation, protection, or whatever, then it remains pagan.

      • ironclad

        That is an opinion just like LDS

      • chuckles

        Read Letters to Timothy and find out what are the “doctrines of demons”. Who forbids to marry? Who prays to dead people? Who prays to idols in their yards, on the side of the road, and their dashboard? Who is the Whore of Babylon spoken of in Revelation on seven hills? There are multitudes of problems with Roman Catholics. I suppose it’s possible to have salvation as a Catholic, but there is so much error, I don’t see it. I believe Mother Theresa was saved because when asked why she did what she did, she said she does it for Jesus. She could have said I do it for the church, I do it for the pope, or Mary, or any one of a dozen other excuses, but she gave the right answer. Most Catholics I know are so dedicated to the Catholic denomination, they lose their life for Christ and place their faith in Catholicism. Being Catholic won’t save you. Mob bosses getting Bishops to preside over their funerals is just a small example.
        Even the foundation of your denomination was built on error. The “stone” Jesus was building His church on was NOT a person called Peter, but the Holy Spirit revealing the Christ as Jesus. One cannot know Jesus without the Father revealing it to him through the Holy Spirit. There are NO popes, cardinals, nuns, ect anywhere in Scripture.
        Forbidding to marry is a doctrine of demons. Eating fish on Friday and many more are just example to examine as wrong teachings. To speak of JW’s and Mormons as cults, I don’t see the difference in Catholics. Jesus is the only advocate you have to the Father. Mary and any one of a dozen other saints on your medals have zero effect on God. Oh, and stop saying prayers repetitiously as the pagans do.

      • mtman2

        …..Yes now, if Christ is their Savior and not the Pope, Mary or Saints etc -and some then that did not get in the way of “The Church” but
        true Christians believers that wanted to stay alive had to hide secretly ‘underground'(real catacombs in Rome) or stay separate from direct interaction with the political Catholic Power structure, like missionaries Saint-Columba,Patrick,Brendan,Cutbert,Aidan+more. It was feared here in the States even under President LIncoln, candidate JFK had to state he would not bow to the directives of the Pope over the Constitution.
        ….. In the Dark Ages the Catholic Church was-god, TORTURE AND MURDER WAS NORMAL, and why they called it the Dark-Ages until the Reformation by Martin Luther and the Bible printed for the 1st time in German then English for the common man, King James + Geneva Bibles for the common man, no more mumbling in latin and keeping the people illiterate -putting coins in the coffers for “God to hear” and buy your way in, like the Mob has in recent times.
        …..Read -Foxes Book of Martyrs by John Foxe. “Burning at the stake” was a favorite -right up to the crossing of OUR Pilgrims that formed this nation.
        “We are saved by grace not of works, lest any man should boast.”

  • Sonny Phillips

    It is apparent that you have read more “about” the history of this period than the history itself. Though not a scholar of history, I have studied and read the events of this time period and am relieved that the Vikings put forth an authentic approach. During this period of history the greatest struggle was, for each person, between pagan and Christian beliefs as we see in in your so called “apostate wimp of a former cleric” Athelstan. You give up on Athelstan way too soon due to your bias. He is not done yet. You are way to judgmental in your approach to give an overview of the series.

    • Steve Pauwels

      Yes, when a professing Christian renounces Christ — repeatedly — openly avows allegiance to Odin instead, and backs it up by participating in the ransacking of the homes and church buildings of innocents and needless shedding of blood I tend to get judgmental. I’m kinda harsh that way, I suppose. If, at some point down the road, Athelstan wakes up and repents for his abandonment of Christ, I’ll cheer — and give a lot of credit to the writers of Vikings for being original and gutsy. And in the real world, Jesus would forgive him, because that’s the kind of a God He is. But after the past two or three episodes, He’d have to forgive Athelstan of an awful lot.

  • Ben Name

    Vikings are just muslims of the north.

    • Don

      Not.

      • Ben Name

        hey the 1980s called and want you to keep that stupid saying.

        • Don

          here’s what I learned from left wing posters on this site….

          Ben ASS licking bitch troll.

          • Ben Name

            Here’s what I learned. 100% of the people who take this stuff seriously are stupid.

          • Don

            Ben ASS licking bitch troll.

          • Ben Name

            wow. I thought I was witnessing evolution but no, lower life forms can only repeat things. They can’t actually formulate personal thought.

          • Don

            Ben ASS licking bitch troll.

          • Ben Name

            you’re like the kid who always said, sticks and stones…” blah blah. you know, the one who got beat up all the time.

          • Don

            Ben ASS licking bitch troll.

          • Ben Name

            Monkey’s can hit the ctrl key and the c key at the same time!

            Anyone saying God is not real is a joker. Here’s the proof.

          • Don

            Ben ASS licking bitch troll.

          • Ben Name

            ha ha ha. Let’s see how long this can go on…….That is let’s see how long you will continue to make an idiot out of yourself.

          • Don

            Troll.
            Any person who is so miserable and lacking self worth that said person makes his/her life goal of pissing others off and generally being a lamer.
            The Troll hates himself and therefore must bother everyone around him. Also known as Ben Name an ass licking bitch.

          • Ben Name

            Don ASS licking bitch troll.

          • Don

            Ben Name an ass licking bitch is the kind of a man that you would use as a blueprint to build an idiot.

          • Ben Name

            Now you are getting clever. Keep bringing it you are on a roll.

            I bet you couldn’t have guessed that conscious thought could feel so good.

    • ThomasER916

      No, you’re just an idiot.

      • Ben Name

        here’s what I learned from right wing posters on this site….

        ThomAss.

  • TheLastViking

    First off, I picked my user name a long time ago, based on my ancestry. Now in the last episode I saw, the Viking raiders were having fun using a live priest as an archery target. The whole time the priest is praying and asking God to forgive the raiders, until Athelstan puts him out of his misery.
    I have seen nothing to suggest that Athelstan has become a pagen, rather the show seems to protray him as being strong enough in his faith to trust God to take care of him. An example of this is in season 1, when the pagen seer decided not to sacrifice him because he failed to convert to Norse paganism, or when he survives the plague but Ragnar’s daughter doesn’t.
    My biggest issue with the show is the battle scenes. I have a hard time believing that the Saxon soldiers were such inferior warriors that not a single Viking gets killed.

    • Niku

      Not to mention the female warrior.

      • Don

        Females fought along side the men.

        • Niku

          I answered this once, but my comments were not posted. Therefore, it was this fantasy that I was objecting to. Sure, these days there are many movies where females are wiping the floor with men, but that’s only in movies. Most people know the difference. Movies that invent things like this and present it as truthful can’t be taken seriously.

          • Don

            Female Vikings fought alongside of the men there were female warriors why do you consider that fantasy? Read some factual history of the Vikings.
            I know a lot of fantasy is made up about Vikings such as the horned helmets which they never had and the two bladed battle ax which they never had, but the fighting Viking women is not fantasy.

          • mtman2

            …..They’ll probably make movies of the the great NFL, NHL, NBA + NBL players that were female, a 100-yrs from now too. Who would know the difference then.
            …..Certainly girls and woman can learn to shoot great, learn how to use edged weapons with moves and maneuvers useful in combat.
            …..I believe to the extent she is able and willing, to raise girls with the mindset and physical ability to defend herself. This puts these females ahead of the average punk or thug, if even from the standpoint of surprise. Some above average could get lucky and last for quite a while. But Brucelia Lee or Chuklea Norris?Not!
            …..Against really dangerous trained warriors that have been killers, surviving and prevailing in real combat -is why woman have been protected by men and should be. Their contribution to the family, community, society and history is far above combat roles. This is the main reason for men to be warriors!

    • Don

      I seen Vikings die in those battles.

  • WesTexan

    I guess you better get an editor to work. I agree with most of your concerns. Christians are under attack every night on the secular TV networks. It’s a popular pastime. However, World Vision just fell on the sword of political correctness, and when their bottom line was threatened, they retreated, not for principle, but for mammon.

    I like Vikings (my ancestors were vikings), but it does stretch credibility. Vikings were incredible warriors, but they were not invincible. (The British Empire I know, but not the Viking Empire.) When I watch something on the History Channel, I do expect dramatized history, yes, but history nonetheless.

    A great book on a related subject is “How the Irish Saved Civilization” by Thomas Cahill—and they were not Vikings. The History Channel would do well to dramatize a more complete picture of history—and it would be just as entertaining.

    • Don

      The Irish were indeed Vikings in many ways.
      The Viking attacks started in the end of the 8th century AD, and England was the first victim; the rest of the British Isles and Ireland soon followed. In the 840s AD the Vikings began to create permanent bases in Ireland, thus introducing towns. There is no evidence that indicates that there was a pre-Viking settlement at Dublin, and thus the Vikings appear to be its founders. The brothers Olaf and Ivar established a permanent Norse presence in Ireland in 853 AD.

      As the Norwegian Vikings established themselves in Great Britain and Ireland (they dominated the two through the 11th century), they set out to explore the lands further west. On their way, they stumbled upon the Faroe Islands and Iceland some time in the middle of the 9th century. About 900 AD the Vikings discovered Greenland. However, their most intriguing discovery was that of North America in about 1000 AD. The Vikings thought of America as just another island, and they called it Vinland “because there grow wild in that country vines which produce fine wine”

      • WesTexan

        Actually, the Celts were well established in Ireland by the 8th century from their roots north of the Alps. History records that “from the 8th century onwards the Celts were hammered by invasions by the Vikings and then the Normans.” (See The Celts – A Complete Series, Season 1.) The history of both cultures crossed paths in the 9th century.

        You mention the “Norwegian Vikings,” however, Scandinavia did not exist until the end of the Viking Age, beyond which the Celts endured.

        Not all Viking shared the same subsistence or economy due to the contrasts in temperatures, climate, soils and seasonal variations from what is now northern Norway to southern Denmark. One of the best preserved Viking ships is near Copenhagen where you can obtain a sample of the substance they used to make the red dye they used on their sails.

        There are places on the East coast where stone structures and runes have been found, but they are more Celtic than Viking. Some believe that St. Brenden (a Celt) also made it to North America.

        • Don

          Vikings lived in Scandinavia, in the countries of Norway, Sweden and Denmark, and they all spoke nearly the same languages and worshipped the same gods, when they started their exploration, they all went their separate ways. The Swedes went mostly east over the Baltic sea and to Russia, the Norwegians went west to Scotland, Ireland, Iceland and America, and the Danes went to England, Ireland and south towards France and Portugal. Their paths crossed before the time you state.
          The first attackers in Ireland were the Norwegians. Full of defenseless churches and monasteries, Ireland was very attractive.
          It was ruled by at least seven kings, and none of them could control their rebellious princes and chieftains. The country was torn by internal strife that had nothing to do with the Vikings; annals show that between 795 and 820 Ireland experienced 26 Viking attacks- and 87 wars among the Irish.4 But the Viking attacks on Ireland was a great shock on the Irish inhabitants.
          The headquarters of the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland, was plundered three times in a single month in 832 . Monks and priests lived in deep fear. Large Viking fleets plundered the coast and ventured far up rivers, and in 840-41 the Vikings spent their first winter in Ireland. The Viking leader for this was Thorgestr. He and his men built several forts and seized control of part of the countryside, but Thorgestr was captured and killed by the Irish.
          In the centuries that followed, successive waves of Viking invaders took control of various parts of Ireland. The Vikings founded the country’s first major cities- Dublin, Wexford, Waterford, and Limerick. They also introduced trade and currency to the land. The Vikings were kings in Dublin for a while, but they were driven out by the Irish in 902.
          Twelve years later the Vikings returned. With their ships, their experience in trade, and their connection with Vikings from all over Europe, they made Ireland into a prosperous center of international commerce.
          Many Vikings at this time became Christians and married among the Irish. Some Irish adopted the Viking culture and way of life, they were called the Gaill – Gaedhil, “Irish strangers”.

          • WesTexan

            As an editor, most of my work has been with writers in Great Britain, Ireland, Scotland and Scandinavia, but primarily the Finns. So it’s been a real treat to visit those places that share my DNA markers. Enjoyed the “conversation” but must move on to other things. Have a great summer.

          • Don

            My ancestry is also of Viking blood so it is also a great interest to me as well. Nice to talk and not argue with someone though! Have a great summer as well!

      • mtman2

        And St. Patrick was a English slave captured by Irish Druid pirates, became a man of called Christian faith with a true burden to be a missionary to barbarian Ireland and did turn the nation toward Christ.
        Wonder if the Irish should pay more reparation to England for their atrocities then?

        • Don

          I won’t touch this question at all. I never touch any religious questions. It is something that is guaranteed to tick someone off. To each their own view and let it go at that.

  • PFG

    I like the show Vikings & although it does paint Christians in that time frame in England as weak & disorganized it is rather historically accurate. It is historically accurate that the Vikings raided successfully & that land was seeded to them in return for mercenary work. There must be reasons for this. The English did not think they had any enemies from the sea at that time they thought they were safe on their island. The monasteries were often close to the sea away from the larger populations. Thereby easily raided, I think the show is fine although it does seem very much like a gory soap opera. If you want to rewrite history we learn much more from the truth than apostolic fiction. England & Europe suffered at the hands of the Vikings because their faith in Jesus was weak.

  • johnstephano

    The writer of this article needs to get over himself. Vikings is a TV program to entertain, it doesn’t state that all is accurate. It actually goes light on Christians since back in that time the Christians were just as barbaric as the Vikings. Maybe we should show how the Christian slaughtered people. Back then it mad no difference, you could be a Viking, a Christian or a Muslim. They were all barbaric. The Vikings died out, The Christian evolved into a civilized society and the Muslim, well they are still living as they did 2000 years ago, still barbaric.

    • Jeff Horton

      Wasn’t this just before the crusades? Wasn’t that a nice time in christian history? Look I’m Christian and of european decent. We are human, and as humans, of one time or another we were all violent, Show me a group of people whom were never violent in history.

      • http://www.facebook.com/sstephaniew stephanie wilson

        crusaders were catholic. not evangelical christians. they turnedthe cross in2 a sword. shame. God forgive them

        • Jeff Horton

          I stand corrected thanks for pointing that out.

          • http://www.facebook.com/sstephaniew stephanie wilson

            no problem.

        • Churchill4President

          You’d be a Muslim now if it wasn’t for crusaders.

    • Don

      When did the Vikings die out? Never happened.

    • mtman2

      No! True Christians were hiding either ‘underground’ or separate from all these “barbaric” peoples, they didn’t “evolve”, they finally could emerge when the Catholic Church missed killing Martin Luther when he turned the known world around in what is known as the Reformation, after Wittenburg in10/31/1517. German Princes rescued him even against his will to save him, or who knows what a sick world this would be -if it would even be here! My father has been in Luthers home many times! Luther was the instrumental pivot point of man turning from the Dark Ages.

      • birdley

        No, that’s way too convenient. You don’t get to cast out your lot because they aren’t exactly like you. They were Christians. Christians are still just as exploitative to their peoples.

        • mtman2

          The real world as it unfolded doesn’t ride that horse your betting on. You must spend scores of hours digging deeper than ever have and be willing to face what others already know, then be humble and honest with yourself as you actually open your eyes for the first time learning these things. Not as others have told you think and speak.

  • Unkldave

    Perhaps instead of two centuries the author may have intended two thousand years? Possibility of two millenium…although my dictionary has an interesting definition regarding that particular spelling…involving Christ and Revelations…so…??

  • http://www.facebook.com/sstephaniew stephanie wilson

    the left always rewrites history!

  • William A. Bullard Jr.

    johnstephano and the rest? you’re dumb aersed; you don’t know your history; you don’t know what you don’t know; maybe you should keep your mouth shut since you can’t add anything meaningful to the narrative of Western Civilization. The Vikings did not die out you idiot. Britain, Scotland, and Ireland [the hardest hit by them] outlived them, absorbed them, and made them Christian. The “Old High German” they brought with them was absorbed and bastardized and corrupted along with the Gaelic and comes down to us as English. On ChristMass Day 876 AD the Vikings stormed Britain; six of the seven Christian kings that ruled Britain got up and ran out to Armorica [modern day Normandy] never to be see or heard from again, save one who went to the marshes and swamps of Wessex. We know him as Alfred the Great. What would have happened? What would have happened if Alfred had ran? Would Christianity have remained an obscurantist Mediterranean basin religion? Would we be speaking Norse today? Would we even have representative parliamentary forms of government today? The historical record seems to suggest not.
    What is known of the historical record shows that the Vikings were bent on the extermination of Christianity; they slaughtered. Early missionaries sent from the earliest last days of the Roman Empire were simply butchered out of hand and made into Saxon War Eagles. What record did the Christians of that age have to go on? You certainly don’t know. So the Christians slaughtered right back, not because they were Christians but because they were threatened. Christianity did not promote the slaughter; the slaughter Christians promoted says less about their faith and more about them as human beings than as Christians. The Gospel is perfect; the believers and the sayers of the Gospels are as often as not faulted. What part about that don’t you get? As violent as early Christians were within understandably good reason/s, they contained within themselves the seeds of correction and improvement by virtue of their faith. No Viking or Pagan ever did; their faith was depraved and would not allow it. The only thing that mattered was reputation; you were there for the gods amusement and they did not enter into your life in anyway uplifting. I don’t know what ‘Vikings’ you are watching apparently we’re watching two differing productions. Think about this the rest of you before you start blabbering about those things you have no historical knowledge of! . It was good Christian [Protestant, Catholic, and Mormon] boys that dropped the atomic bombs on Hiroshima, Nagasaki and incinerated Hamburg, Dresden, Wilhelmshaven and Berlin. Good Christian boys, not because they were Christian boys but because they were protecting the rest of us from the modern ‘Vikings’ of Fascist Imperialist Japan, Italy and Nazi Germany.

    • Annette Rose Giesbrecht

      So true. The Vikings were not the nice people in cartoons. They also lived in fear of their gods and had no concept of forgiveness.

      • Don

        Wrong I suggest you go read the history of the Viking people. And no they did not live in fear of their Gods. Go study real Viking history and culture before speaking on it.

        • Annette Rose Giesbrecht

          Vikings like Ragnar were the exception. He was able to understand Christianity and willing to improve himself. Look at the episode where he was in a tub. He realized that cleanliness was not something to shun. and when he was willing to learn Anglo-Saxon. I also believe he was using the gods to his advantage. After all, he bribed the priests to keep his brother from being executed.

          • Don

            This is my history. I am of Norse blood. Vikings are my ancestors. I know my history many of you posting on here do not.

          • Annette Rose Giesbrecht

            I studied history and never believed in the horned wing helmets. Did not know about the 9 noble virtues. Was that the beginning of chivalry that was practiced by knights in the middle ages?

          • Don

            When I research the origins of Chivalry I find it usually states that Chivalry, or the chivalric code, is a code of conduct associated with the medieval institution of knighthood and that
            Chivalry arose from an idealized German custom and
            developed first in the north of France among horse soldiers who served in Charlemagne’s heavy cavalry. So as near as I can tell it might have come from The Odinic Rite lists of the 9 Noble Virtues. I know the German Knights of the middle ages were considered some of the most ardent followers of the code of Chivalry. I don’t want to say for certain it came from the 9 Nobel Virtues, but it seems like it might have. Chivalry is too widespread for anyone to pinpoint a single, definitive starting-place for it.
            I will include a few links you might like to look at.

            http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/index.shtml

            http://www.winternightsfestival.com/vikingnorse-values/

          • Annette Rose Giesbrecht

            Thanks. I am part German and Austrian on my father’s side and part English,and Welsh on my mother’s but think I may have some Viking in me from my maternal grandfather. So am really a mixture.

          • Don

            Vikings are Germanic people so yes you may have Viking blood as well. My family is German and were from the areas of the Vikings. I have the Norse blood and I also have a German coat of Arms and my family is listed in the Rietstap’s Armorial General. My family history goes pretty far back and was lucky enough that my ancestors were pretty good at keeping records.

          • Annette Rose Giesbrecht

            My family did not keep records because my father’s name was very common. I have been mistaken for being Danish, German, and Italian. I really have to check names to find out where they originated from. But I also suspected I have part Viking – well Danish Viking in me.

          • mtman2

            …..Without Christ we are and were all tribal barbarians or totally self centered.
            …..Loving your enemies is as foreign as putting Gods will first.
            Without the Holy Spirit breaking through to various willing people through history it would be a sad legacy -if mankind even still existed.
            …..Dynasties, ‘religions’, cultures, superstitions, preoccupations, passions, causes, politics all end in selfish greed and oppression of the followers without the Christ-heart of the Holy Spirit to mediate, mend and mandate the course of events.

          • mtman2

            Though “understanding” and “being” are two different things The Devil even believes, and trembles. Rightfully so.

          • Annette Rose Giesbrecht

            I know the concept. I am not stupid. I am certain that Ragnar believed that he would get into Valhalla, the Viking concept of heaven by being good. That concept unfortunately is still alive today.

    • Don

      The Viking died out? No they didn’t, while a lot of what you say is true a lot is also wrong. It is my history I am of Norse blood so do not speak on a history and culture you do not fully know. It is wrong to lump Vikings in with Fascist as well and to call Japan and Italy modern Vikings is wrong.

    • mtman2

      …..Christianity is not a “religion”, nor was Christ religious, nor is the material, living or spiritual worlds an accident. A thousand years of darkness as Ronald Reagan stated is only one generation away. Evangelical Christians after the Reformation are behind the pivotal turning point for ALL the true progress in modern western history, esp in the USA. -or this world of mankind would have blown itself up by now(Wiberforce, Finney, Tyndale, Edwards, Westley’s, Whitfield, Newton, Taylor, Spurgeon, Moody, Tozer, Simpson, Schaeffer, Ockenga, Tappan Bros, Quakers, Muller, Carey).
      …..Cool your jets. The modern Catholic Church if any would be true believers in the salvation of Christ, not the Pope or Mary etc can rectify the horrors of the corrupt past, this includes the Pope hisself, the Son of God is big enough.
      …..My barbaric ancestors left 27,000 dead Roman Legionnaires in a German forest and were never conquered, their ancestors became the Vikings as they immigrated North, English that crossed over to the Isles.
      …..Un-Godly is the term for those of any origin that crush others for selfish gain. True ‘Christian’ Missionaries have gone into all the world as commanded and are being imprisoned. tortured and murdered daily yet today.
      Good info reads:
      FOXES’ BOOK of MARTYRS-John Foxe,
      search -The VOICE of the MARTYRS monthly publication,
      Pilgrims Progress-John Bunyan,
      The Light and the Glory -Peter Marshall

  • William A. Bullard Jr.

    stephaniewilson: Your’e damned right the Crusaders were Catholic! Is there a problem there? Before you go off on an anti-Catholic jag read the history of Islam in the Mediterranean basin and the Iberian peninsula. They were bent on the destruction of Judaism and Christianity. And, at the exact same time that Charles Martel and “Catholic” Frankish Axmen defeated the looting, raping , murdering Islamic hordes at Poitiers [Tours] they were also fighting for their very lives against raping, looting, murdering Viking hordes all across Frankia [France]. So just how loveable, forgiving, and charitably peaceful are they supposed to be? Read your history before you run your mouth

    • mtman2

      This is part of it and not from an invented history! True Christianity had to overcome all this including the Catholic Church to finally emerge into the full light of day, hundreds of years after the time of the Apostles.; ie- why they call them the dark ages.

  • Colleen Phillips

    The time period setting of the series was at the beginning of the most corrupt dark age of the Roman Catholic Church. The common people living under the Church’s rule were ignorant and illiterate, and had no understanding of the Bible or of the true Gospel. If there were any true Bible believing Christians during that time, they must have been few and far between. What do you think the Protestant Reformation hundreds of years later was all about?
    The religion and practices of the Vikings are repugnant and horrifying to our modern sensibilities, but at least they were honest. They worshiped their gods and lived in accordance with what they believed to be true and right. The Catholic Church of that time was vile and corrupt, and the polar opposite of what Christ taught in the Scriptures. The Church was hypocrisy on steroids and the Papacy’s barbaric acts are well documented through history.
    Fortunately, a lot has changed since then, and the modern Catholic Church has been a force for good all over the world, even though some Catholic practices and beliefs are not supported by Scripture.

    • mtman2

      True Christians existed in isolation +/or ‘underground'(sometimes -literally.
      All prior to Martin Luthers epiphany of truth that “You are save by grace not of works, lest any man should boast.”, were murdered by the Catholic “Church” and for hundreds of years, but of course terribly tortured first. Spiritual darkness threatened to exterminate true believers(saved by grace not allegiances or monies).

  • Annette Rose Giesbrecht

    i think people’s perspective of the Vikings depends on what type of Vikings they are descended from. Now if someone here was descended from Ragnar who was one of the better quality, then he or she would only say good things about his ancestors, but what if he was descended from one of the worse kinds? There was this Viking from Iceland who went around killing people esp. Christians. Then their perspective would be different.

  • GP

    Check your history books and you will see that after the Viking moved onto English soil they slowly became Christians. However, again, if you look at history the Christians were rather Vikinglike with the Pagans.

  • mtman2

    St. Columba, St. Patrick, Iona and Lindisfarne to scratch the surface hard on what could be touched on -into this series. All us have a little Viking in us or are direct ancestors to them!

  • Al Bumen

    Reject the superstitions and illusions of today’s liberals and progressives: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0094KY878

  • Grand Vizier

    The oldest churches in Norway still standing were built around AD 800 , amd the Norwegian church got its first bishops confirmed by the Pope in AD 997, and by 1030 Christianity was the only allowed religion in Norway. By 1152 the archdiocese of Trondheim in middle Norway (the cathedral there is still Norways biggest church) was the archdiocese for Norway, Faroes, Iceland, Shetland, Orkneys, isle of Nan, the Hebrides, Greenland (first church in North America), and Ireland.

    They were not heathen any more than the Germans fighting the French in 1805.

    Sacking of churches and monasteries was not a heathen act, it was an act of robbery.

  • RELee

    Hey Steve,
    I’m curious to know what you thought about the season finale of Vikings with Ragnar asking Athelstan to teach him a Christian prayer?

  • Churchill4President

    Excellent article! This show reminds me of the darkness of Game of Thrones and other new shows. There is a moral vacuum which is really an absence of Christian values and morality.

    Before and outside the Christian world was paganism and barbarism. Might was right. Women were property.

    Don’t believe the lies abut the Crusades and the Inquisition that have been spread in the past century or the oft used equivocations that all religions are alike.

    • uptohere

      Game of Thrones? How many christians were alive when dragons were still alive?

  • Glen Jones

    I think the bigger point in watching this show is that all religion is essentially the same and inherits from what came before it. The idea is that people are not all that different no matter how much we want to see that as being the case. The wedding ceremony scene is a great point in case, but many others throughout the show. I wouldn’t say that it puts down religion, but definitely is trying to make the point that Christianity considering it special and uniquely different is transparent at best.

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